General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhile we're on the subject, how many pro-vaccers didn't get their flu shot?
My kids and I are vaccinated per schedule, plus we all had flu vax. It is irrelevant that the flu vaccine is only 23% effective this year. It's normally much higher.
How many pro-vaccers will own up to the fact that they usually spread the flu?
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)why do you assume pro-vaccers are hypocrites?
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Much less coverage than immunizations. I figure there are more than 2 or 3 on DU that have been vocal about everyone else getting their childhood immunizations while failing to get their annual flu vax, which also has a serious impact in spreading deadly disease. Only a few here have owned up to it.
Dorian Gray
(13,498 posts)but I don't think your argument is fair. Medical recommendations are for older and younger people to get it. And immuno-compromised. My doctor gives it to me every year (or Rite Aid), but that's because I seek it out. I've never been asked if I want it on my own or been told by my doctor that I should get it.
It's not on schedule like childhood vaccines.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I'm with lessening my risk even just a little
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Nice try. There was a flu shot thread about this issue a while back. My kids do the nasal spray and I get a shot a Walgreens. I'm sure most vaccination aware folks do the same. Thats why they are telling folks to vaccinate. Because they do.
REP
(21,691 posts)My TDaP is current and has been forever. I recently got my pneumovax booster.
I'm getting my measles, mumps and rubella titres checked to see if I need a booster for those as well.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)I rarely get sick, but I'm pretty sure I got the flu this winter. I had a strong egg allergy for many years when flu shots became a thing, and so didn't get in the habit of getting them. I know that's not an issue anymore, but I will admit I'm bad about flu shots.
ETA: Sorry, fellow vaxxers! I'll be the scapegoat. Although it's more laziness than hypocrisy. If someone came to my house to give me one, I wouldn't turn it down.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Allergies are no laughing matter. My last flu shot was eight years ago. The hive on my arm was 4 inches by three and lasted nine days. I know that people here think that everyone can participate but sometimes it is not possible. From the talk here I expect that some day those with allergies will be forced to take the injection. It would be better for one to die as opposed to the risk of one un -vaccinated soul contaminating the masses.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)in immunizations. There's been a lot of criticism on DU. And naturally, some of them probably didn't do their civic duty when they had no excuse not to.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)something to jump on. Testing shows that my allergy has faded, but I still have difficulties with some egg dishes, so I think there's still a sensitivity involved. There are also flu shots made for people with egg allergies, and as I said, there's really no excuse for going in and getting that.
emulatorloo
(44,168 posts)Big ole FAIL as far as I can see.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)And I don't believe that all of the people who don't get it are generally anti-vaccination.
This thread isn't a "fail". There are a few that are owning up to it. I bet most won't post their response.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Like the younger and older people?
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)About 150 million plus another 100 million thimerosol-free for children.
There is always the possibility that your doctor could run out, especially of FluMist, but there are shipments made throughout flu season.
There was a reported shortage back in 2010. I think they had added H1N1 and many more than usual were vaccinated.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)As they became available. She had an eighteen month niece who died with measles.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)My wife is very susceptible to lung infections that develop into pneumonia, so it would be the height of irresponsibility for me not to get the flu vaccine.
Plus, my job requires it.
Dorian Gray
(13,498 posts)I have asthma so a mild cold can turn into a month long bronchial torture session for my entire family. (Coughing so much that I keep them awake at night... nobody sleeps.)
frylock
(34,825 posts)will get the flu shot next year as well.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,849 posts)I haven't always gotten the flu shot. I didn't start getting them every winter until I got older, but I have my priorities more in order than I did when I was young.
shanti
(21,675 posts)sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)even with a 23%, you are fully vaccinated against strains other than the drifted one and you have partial immunity to the drifted strain that would mean a likely less to far less virulent infection.
I always get the flu shot along with my entire family and if one of us comes down with it we stay home instead of spreading it around.
distantearlywarning
(4,475 posts)I even got it early this year. I am also current on my TDaP, because I don't want to either get Whooping Cough, or worse, pass it to an unvaccinated baby.
Skittles
(153,174 posts)the only exception was that one year there was a shortage; I opted out so elderly and very young could get theirs
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)ill recognize you for your selfless acts, yes INDEED
Skittles
(153,174 posts)any method available to help me avoid the flu I will take it!!!
rug
(82,333 posts)Can't be too cautious these days.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Otherwise, I would have done as you because I never get the flu.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Some free protection is better than none.
hunter
(38,322 posts)Don't want to revisit hospitals again, not for anything so mundane as the flu.
Skeleton man 6'4" 145 pound Hunter is not a pretty sight and he can be bloody awful rip-your-heart out mean too.
Ask anyone who has ever loved me...
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)CAG
(1,820 posts)that they usually spread the flu, measles, pertussis, diphtheria, rubella, polio, tetanus, mumps, haemophillus, rotavirus, and pneumococcus?
BTW, anti-vaxxers can thank us pro-vaccers for saving their selfish a#$@$ from the above diseases, YOU'RE WELCOME!!!
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)I'm shocked at how people think it's okay to jump on a bandwagon and criticize anti-vaxers but they endanger people also by not protecting themselves and others against seasonal flu.
Mugu
(2,887 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)oops! I forgot!
I haven't had the flu in more than a decade. I don't usually get a shot. Pro-vaxx all the way.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Get the flu shot, protect yourself and others.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)So I have no idea what your point is?
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)to make certain that remains true. It usually is. I still had an MMR vax a few years ago. My point is that having the flu 40 years ago is no guarantee that you are protected today.
If you don't want to vax against flu, then don't. It's your choice. But some people will die from spread of the flu, just like some will die from spread of measles.
My point is that there have been dozens of vax threads lately with lots of name-calling. But less than half of the population vaccinates itself against this other killer. This is a reminder for anyone on DU who has been on those threads to consider whether they are doing their civic duty in protecting as many people as possible from influenza. Stop talking about other people needing to vax and go get themselves vaxed, if they are medically able.
shraby
(21,946 posts)during that flu epidemic in the late 1950s. Did it make me immune? I don't know, but I don't get the flu, and neither does my husband who probably had it at the same time..we were in high school yet.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)You should get the flu shot. You've just been "lucky".
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Ilsa
(61,697 posts)It's still, overall, an excellent program in preventing massive outbreaks, pneumonia, and death across time. Everyone who can medically take the flu vax should to provide herd immunity and protect those too young or too ill to take the vaccine.
Its FluMist or a shot vs a week of misery. Easy call.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)just to make you happy.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I used to rationalize my self-absorbed actions too...
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)The problem wasn't the vaccine not being effective. The problem is it didn't match what emerged as this years problem strain...that may be too subtle for many people to grasp.
But, it's not a vaccine failure. It's an identification of the target problem. And that is the nature of making educated guesses more than a half year prior to it's release. Sometimes the guess will be very good and sometimes it will not be.
Even with a vaccine such as this years, there is direct protection against its targets and some additional cross-protection. That protection is real and moves into the near future with those vaccinated.
shraby
(21,946 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Not every unvaccinated person gets measles. In fact, the vast majority don't.
Aristus
(66,437 posts)I work in clinical medicine, so there would be no way to skip out on getting my vaccination, even if I wanted to.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Too many people depend on what I do every day.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)When it is then your point will be RELEVANT. Until then find some new facts.
TIA,
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)It takes multiple doses over several years to insure anything close to 99%.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)And it's about 90 % effective after the first dose.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)The counterpoint to the 99% was that even a 13 month old baby has about a 5-10% chance of not being fully protected. A vaccine is necessary, even if it doesn't provide 99% coverage. Same with flu vax.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Ilsa
(61,697 posts)I'll take 20% odds over none. Why? Because the alternative is a week of misery.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)and thought they could outsmart a hideous disease.
And then they FAILED society.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Most years, we could stop about most of the flu. So what if it isn't all eliminated. Most is better than none.
My point is that there are plenty of ardent and vocal supporters of vaccination who don't bother getting this one done.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)If vaccines aren't 100% safe and 100% effective, then they are worthless. It's hard for most of us to grasp this all-or-none mindset.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I'm only eligible for that till I'm 50, though. Then it's back to a shot. *grump*
bhikkhu
(10,720 posts)I meant to stop and get one (free now with ACA coverage), but then I didn't make the time for it, then I heard it was less effective than usual, and now its February...
I caught the flu in 95 and wound up with double pneumonia, and have been very good about getting flu shots every year since, but hectic new job and all. Definitely will next year.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Not getting the flu first.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Only because it was free.
If I had to pay for it I wouldn't have been able to. I was unemployed at the time last year.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,809 posts)I always do. Got a bad case of Hong Kong flu many years ago; I don't ever want to be that sick again.
Tanuki
(14,920 posts)My workplace makes it very easy, encourages everyone to be vaccinated, and provides the shots for free.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Im not sure what the point of this OP is.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Judgmental comments about anti-vaxers and people too unconcerned about protecting their children and providing herd immunity.
Still, childhood vaccinations rates are higher than flu vaccination rates. This was to get pro-vaccine people to own up to their own shortcomings in not helping with herd immunity, even in a year where the flu vax hasn't been as successful as usual.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)One, I suspect most "pro vax" people DO get the yearly flu shot..
...and two, there is not an equivalency between the flu vaccine which provides imperfect and temporary protection on a yearly basis for a virus which is constantly mutating and in flux, and the normal childhood vaccination schedule for illnesses like measles which are almost fully preventable on a long-term or even lifetime basis with proper vaccination.
Dorian Gray
(13,498 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Butterbean
(1,014 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)that therefore I am spreading flu. I don't think so.
I had flu several times while growing up and once as a young adult. I seem to be pretty much immune to it as I haven't had it in a good 40 years.
In the 1918 flu epidemic the main reason older people almost never got the flu was because they'd been through a comparable epidemic about 50 years earlier, and if they got it then, they were immune all those years later.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)I've been told that I am just "lucky" or some super human. No. I was a very sickly child, teen, and adult. I must have caught every single bug there was going around back then. After my 30s, it all stopped completely. Not exposed later? I worked with little children coughing and sneezing in my face over many years. Did not catch the flu when it was all around me. Immunity built up over many, many years. If don't HAVE the flu yourself, are not coughing and sneezing, no fever, how are you going to give it to anyone else?
True. Perhaps very similar to measles, mumps, etc. What don't unvaccinated old people catch those diseases? They had the diseases themselves and have natural immunity.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)And I was even born in New York State!
I wouldn't actually call myself sickly as a child, but I likewise recall being sick a great deal, especially the year I went to kindergarten. I also spent the first six years of my life in a low-income housing development. Lots of kids. Lots of stuff went around. I got it all. These days? I last had a cold some five years ago.
Our immune systems are such that we're more or less supposed to get a whole host of diseases early on and if we survive them, we're permanently immune. I am not about to suggest we go back to the pre-vaccination era, not in the least. The vaccinations are truly wonderful. Even if the traditional childhood diseases (measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox) really were as benign as I tend to think of them, it is nice not to have to go through the sheer inconvenience of nursing children through them. But yes, vaccinate.
Here's another little factoid most people don't know. Smallpox had evolved a far milder form, known as variola minor in the late 19th century -- in two different parts of the world, I believe -- which was as contagious, but far less serious (in that people didn't get as sick in the first place), and far less deadly. Something like a 3% death rate. It also did not leave scars. It was in the process of replacing variola minor right at the time universal vaccination against smallpox was coming about in this country. Had the smallpox vaccine not already been developed, that disease would have simply become one of the common childhood diseases, at least until a vaccine was developed. A while back I read a fascinating book about the last smallpox epidemic in this country, and the battle to get people to be vaccinated. One huge problem was that at the turn of the 20th century, smallpox vaccines often were contaminated, and people actually died because they got something else (I'm thinking it was tetanus, but I'm not sure I'm remembering correctly) from the vaccine.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)including a whole lot of foreign tourists in NYC. So very many people all around. Squeezed like a sardine on a subway car among total stranger with who knows what! lol Playing on the city streets barefoot under hydrants. How many germs and diseases were kids exposed to? Talk about building up an immune system. lol
I would guess this would be far, far different than someone who grew up in a rural or small town. The potential for exposure to anything would not be so great. Some of my relatives lived in Manhattan apartment buildings without their own toilets. Everyone had to use the community bathroom in the hallway (bedpan at night). Not talking about 1800s here, but 1950's and 1960's.
Germs were all around.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)was that it seems to have gotten its start in soldiers, fresh off the farm, who were crowded into barracks that were less than sanitary, then shipped off on crowded troop ships to fight in Europe. In addition, hand-washing, the single greatest of all public health measures, wasn't as common or even as possible when so many people didn't have ready access to running water. Or clean water.
Among the reasons the Bubonic Plague, especially during the Black Death (1348-1353) was so terrible was that peasants usually lived right next to their livestock. They were themselves typically infested with lice and other vermin, and essentially never took baths.
I'm fascinated by epidemiology and have read several books on the topic. The best one on the 1918 flu epidemic is probably The Great Influenza by John Barry, and the best on the the Black Death is The Great Mortality by John Kelly.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The flu is terrible at packaging new flu virus. It will frequently pick up bits of the host organism. That's why it's "bird flu" and "swine flu". It has bits of bird and pig in it.
As a result, the flu changes constantly. It is not possible to be immune to the flu, just like it is not possible to be immune to the common cold virus.
Why aren't you getting it?
As we get older, we tend to not be in close contact with as many people. That reduces the rate at which they can catch the flu.
Kids in a packed school are great for spreading diseases - there's 60 kids in one room sitting right next to each other, and they tend to share lots of things. Older people who stay at home or go to a few places, not so much.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Head Start with 4 year olds. Up close and personal. As a para I held them, took them to bathroom/changed them, cleaned up after them, including their vomit. I was not exactly a Spring Chicken. I might even have been one of the oldest staff members there. I didn't get sick, and neither did the other para who was a woman in her late 50s.
The teacher was in her 30s. She got her flu shot every year, but one time so many kids were getting sick she actually wore a mask into class. lol Kids thought she was funny.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Our behaviors change drastically as we leave adolescence.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)my wife is a GP and has people with the flu coughing in her face nearly every day. So far, neither of us has caught the flu in the last six years. Last time I caught it, I wasn't vaccinated... last time that happens.
It's not the flu that is that bad... it's the nasty cough for two months afterwards that sucks real bad.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Got all my measles, mumps, etc vaccines as a kid, and I think every kid should. I however havent had a flu shot in my adult life (am 33). The last actual flu I got was when I was 23... I do wash my hands very habitually though
Crunchy Frog
(26,610 posts)Not because I'm anti-vax, but because I don't like the lynch mob/loyalty oath type mentality.
I did get myself and my two sons vaccinated this year, which was a great comfort to us the other week that we all spent lying around the house, sick with the flu.
The only one who didn't get the flu was my 75 year old mother, and she was also the only one who didn't get the shot. And she was knee deep in little kid germs.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Why old people, who don't get flu shots, but are exposed to it, not get the flu?
Conclusions? Flu shot isn't work/causing the flu. Granny is immune to the flu around her.
Not going to rehash this again.
olddots
(10,237 posts)Ilsa
(61,697 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,498 posts)got the flu shot. As did my daughter's babysitter. (And that was before we found out it had a lower efficacy than last year.) I'm not happy about that, but not because I fear that the vaccine will harm us. I just fear our family coming down with the flu.
xmas74
(29,675 posts)My daughter had the mist this year.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts).... (after the fact) with Guillen Barre once so I cannot have flu shots. But I would if I could.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)since 1988.
tridim
(45,358 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]
tridim
(45,358 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Threedifferentones
(1,070 posts)Oh, wait, no it's not, not really even close. Barely comparable in fact. So, this OP is useless and irrelevant.
MineralMan
(146,324 posts)I'm a big supporter of immunization, and always get mine. Last year, I got the shingles vaccine, too, even though I had to pay for it. I don't have Medicare Part D, so it's not covered. $125. I don't want shingles. I've had my pneumonia vaccine, too, and got a DPT booster in January, even though it's a year early. Whooping cough is making the rounds again.
Get your shots, folks!
benz380
(534 posts)I had shingles years ago on my back, and it was like i was on fire. They had after-shingles pills that I took, but not the shots back then. I've heard if you've had shingles before you're susceptible to get it again, and I've also heard you're immune after you've had them.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)It was still pricey.
But worth it.
Augustus
(63 posts)Sorry, but you lose your point right out of the gate.
Unless you can demonstrate, with some kind of rational thought process, why it is irrelevant that the flu shot has a usually low percentage rate of effectiveness, you haven't said anything of meaning at all.
The measles vaccine is 95% effective with the first dose, 99% effective with the second dose. Furthermore, the flu is not as contagious as measles. Measles is the most contagious virus known to human kind.
To compare the measles vaccine with the flu shot is the epitome of ignorance.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)and both can result in death. Does the CDC wish they could guarantee 99% effectiveness? Sure. But that's not the reality of drift in the virus. Any effectiveness is better than ignoring it.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)An active case of shingles can give chicken pox to the unvaccinated. It is more for the individual person. Key is they have to come into contact with oozing rash. Not contagious even for chicken pox once the rash crusts over. It is not considered a very contagious disease. My husband had it, thought it was poison ivy, and the above is what his doctor told him. Since it was on his back only, he wore a shirt over it and went to work. He said it itched a lot but did not hurt. He was vaccinated for it but still got it. That is probably one of least effective vax.
No I have never had the shot.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)This one wasn't about Shingles.
I had chicken pox as a child. I've taken the shingles vax. Not everyone can afford it and not all insurance pays on it. The prices I've seen run from about $250-325. Ouch! Covering it is a no-brainer considering the cost of the medications and possible hospitalization for it.
Even shingles has some measure of treatment, though, but it takes time.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)My husband's DOCTOR said that. He got one shot for something from his doctor. Stopped itching and gone in about a week.
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)anybody who didn't would completely justify the risk of exposing vulnerable populace to polio.
librechik
(30,676 posts)I'm a former medical professional and I believe vaccines are the best thing that has happened to humans (and animals) that i can think of. What fool wants to mess that miracle up for themselves and their children???
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)OK a little more than that. Needle phobic.
Being 62 I know I should get a flu shot, but I always tell myself that I won't get the flu since I'm hardly ever out of the house and we don't get many visitors here.
I do make a point of washing my hands a lot, and not putting them near my face after touching stuff in public.
Probably also should get a Shingles shot too, since I had Chicken Pox as a child.
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)I hate giving shots, although I've been told I'm good at it. I hate the idea of fluid being injected into my muscle, but blood draws don't bother me.
I weigh the temporary discomfort of a sore arm with five days of incapacitating illness, which for me, is worse. I've tried FluMist. Maybe that one would be easier for you. It tends to be more available early in the flu season. I didn't like the intradermal vaccine.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Ilsa
(61,697 posts)to be sick. I hope your vax mitigates some of the other junk circulating out there.
dilby
(2,273 posts)They have a new non-egg vaccine made from GMO insects but will wait on this one till it's been out for a while, don't like being a guinnea pig especially for something I rarely get.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Plus, I went ahead and got a tetanus shot too, because I felt I needed it, to protect me from Mr. Shitpipe up the hill.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I know I should never say "never." But I avoid needles whenever I can. I get weak in the knees whenever I am going to have to receive a shot.
progressoid
(49,992 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I was lazy about it and didn't get them regularly for a couple of years. Then, a couple of years ago, I got hit with a flu Thanksgiving night- thanks to a family member. I have never missed since.