The problem most anti-vaxxers have is not with the science, but the chemicals in the vaccine

[davidn3600]

Most anti-vaxxers don't dispute the science that it works. Their problem is what is in there with it. Mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum and other chemicals and preservatives is what they are upset about. They say these chemicals cause problems and diseases that are worse than the disease the vaccine is preventing.

Science says these chemicals and preservatives are completely safe in their form and amounts in the vaccines. However, science also says aspartame is completely safe...the FDA has claimed that substance is safe for decades. But I have seen many DUers over time claim that Diet Coke will give you diabetes or cancer because of the aspartame and provide links to all sorts of fuzzy statistics and discredited studies. It's the same tactic anti-vaxxers use. They use fuzzy stats too.

My point is that if you are going to be a radical health nut and ignore the FDA's safety claims in one situation, why do you bash others when they question the safety claims in another situation?

I think there is a fundamental lack of understand and respect going on here.

The CDC has a list on their website of all the stuff that is used in making these vaccines...much of the stuff you won't be able to pronounce. When you look at that list, I can very easily imagine it scaring people.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

1. Nonsense

Let me repeat my question then for you...



Ebola or Hantavirus is spreading, there is a chance of a pandemic...

The vaccine exists, if you get either disease you are likely to die...

Do you NOT make it mandatory?

[randome]

2. Funny they don't mention that, though.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Act_of_Reparation]

3. I don't see the distinction.

The science says the vaccines work. The science says the vaccines are safe. If you dispute either of these two points, you are rejecting science.

As for names, I don't know what the fuck these people expect. I need to tolerate their stupidity because they didn't pay attention in chemistry class?

[Mika]

13. Science and chemistry classes

At one time rejecting radium was rejecting science. Science isn't static. It evolves.

Radium, a naturally occurring element first isolated by Marie and Pierre Curie in 1898, fascinated the world with its radioactive and luminescent properties. With no understanding of the ill effects of radiation poisoning, radium became a fashionable trend, a medical cure-all, and an industrial wonder. Newspapers imagined future cities lit by radium lamps, restaurants serving glow-in-the-dark radium cocktails and candy, radium fertilizer improving the output of farms, and doctors using radium to cure cancer forever.

The radium industry took hold in New York in the early twentieth century. Beginning in 1904 with L.D. Gardner’s Manhattan-based company producing his patented radium “health” water, Liquid Sunshine, and his glow-in-the-dark radium ink, factories producing radium cures and novelty products began to appear all over the city and surrounding suburbs.

http://blog.nyhistory.org/get-me-a-radium-highball-new-york-and-the-radium-craze/

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. Ah, the perennial refrain of the science denier.

Science changes! Because Radium was thought be safe a hundred fucking years ago, we should ignore the mountains of longitudinal data proving both the efficacy and safety of modern vaccines! We should grant both sides of the vaccine "debate" equal footing because, you never know, we could be wrong!

And pigs could fly.

[HuckleB]

46. Ah, so you promote any old woo you can!

That explains a lot.

[Mika]

47. Show me where I "promote any old woo you can".

Your comment explains nada.

Thanks.

[on point]

4. The problem anti vaxxers have is that they are foolish woo chasers. Stop the stupid

[SidDithers]

7. Nailed it...nt

Sid

[hifiguy]

23. Blammo.

Hit the bullseye and obliterated the entire target.

[KamaAina]

5. Mercury has been eliminated

except for some flu shots.

[GoCubsGo]

10. Thank you.

And, every day, we're exposed to more mercury in our environment from coal combustion than there ever was in the vaccines we get.

[Mika]

15. Propably why we aren't hearing about mercury in vaccines. It would lead to a larger topic ...

... such as coal, as you mention.

Media distraction is needed to perpetuate the corporate and Wall Street based genocide and futurecide.

Yeah, that's the ticket, let's go after the antivaxxers with some misdirection and perpetuated ignorance ... meanwhile the coal industry pumps out more neuro-toxic heavy metals that one can shake a stick at!

[HappyMe]

21. So leave the anti-vaxers alone because coal!!1

Sorry, pollution is something to be dealt with, but that doesn't mean leave the anti crowd alone.

It seems to me, you are distracting from the issue at hand - which is the outbreak of disease that was already gone.

[Act_of_Reparation]

25. Damn right.

I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[HappyMe]

27. I guess distracting people away from

the issue is about all the anti crowd has.

Yes, there are other problems, but NOT VACCINATING is one of them that needs to be dealt with NOW. Before polio comes back.

[Act_of_Reparation]

29. It's the hallmark of the ideologue.

I see it written here every goddamned day: "Don't talk about your issue, talk about MINE."

As if we can't fucking do both.

[GoCubsGo]

38. Yep.

Way to change the subject, eh?

[Act_of_Reparation]

39. I think it's more nefarious than that.

In cases like this, the person is not only dismissing your issue, but by implication attacking your character as well. They are basically trying to shame you into talking about their pet project, because if you fire back at them you look like an anti-environmentalist.

[GoCubsGo]

40. I don't worry about that too much.

Most folks here are smart enough to see through that kind of crap.

[GoCubsGo]

37. That's not even close to what I'm saying.

The anti-vaxxers are blaming the tiny amount of mercury that USED TO BE in vaccines (it's only in some flu shots now) for their kids' health issues, when they and their kids are being exposed to far higher levels every day in their environment. They are the ones perpetuating the lies and ignorance, and that's why people are not vaccinating their kids. And, why we now have epidemics of measles and other diseases. They need to be gone after.

[LostOne4Ever]

6. ...

[SidDithers]

8. Heheh...

love it. Especially the last part.



Sid

[davidn3600]

9. Read this list...

Imagine you are a normal, every day, American....
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

Tell me after reading through that, being an average American, what would you think?

[LostOne4Ever]

12. Same thing they would think here

Last edited Tue Feb 3, 2015, 05:06 PM - Edit history (2)

http://io9.com/what-if-natural-products-came-with-a-list-of-ingredient-1503320184

[3catwoman3]

36. How many people who shun vaccines read the labels...

...on pizza dough, or deli meats, or hamburgers buns, or diet soda, or salad dressings, or any number of other things they blithely toss into their grocery carts?

[NuclearDem]

14. How do you think they'd react to this?

[hifiguy]

24. LoL.

Spot on!

Don't go near the water!!1

[flyingfysh]

28. there is another dangerous ingredient in common use

Most people don't realize that some major food companies have been caught using a poisonous gas in the food they prepare! This gas is so poisonous that it has even been used in warfare. Not only that, they use another caustic ingredient which can cause severe burns.

These companies buy these ingredients in quantity, usually in a combined form: sodium chloride. And they call it "salt".

[HappyMe]

16. I would take my concerns to somebody

that knows and could explain it to me - like a doctor, rather than wig out.

[onenote]

32. I think the average American would accept the opinion of experts

just as they do with respect to most aspects of their lives.

Its the bozos that think that because they know less than the experts they shouldn't trust the experts that are the problem.

[MohRokTah]

11. There is more mercury in a tuna fish sandwich than there has been in any vaccine ever. eom

[jamzrockz]

41. Yes

Last edited Wed Feb 4, 2015, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

I am concerned because both are delivered the same way to the body. I mean, we all know that A, babies eat lots of tuna fish at an early age and 2. tuna is injected to our muscles where they easily enter the bloodstream.

I mean, who doesn't know this?

[MohRokTah]

42. No vaccine given to any baby has any mercury.

Only the flu vaccine has thimerisol.

I love how the anti-vaxxers out themselves in these threads.

[jamzrockz]

45. And by anti vaxxer

you mean anybody who thinks vaccines are not all sunshines and rainbows. I get my flu shot every year religiously and I still think that they do have some adverse reaction in some patients.

This is another reason why this whole debate is ridiculous cos the so called anti vaxxers believe in the important of vaccinations and their role in eradicating deadly diseases. They even get vaccine shot for them and their children. But all of that is not enough to convince the vaccine is safer than water crowd that you are not an anti vaxxer.

I think I have said enough before the lynch mob comes after me. Good luck with the debate.

[Daemonaquila]

18. *Eyeroll*

A lot of people couldn't pronounce "dihydrogen monoxide" of "1,3,7-trimethylpurine-2,6-dione" either. Your point? Not being able to pronounce a word is not a basis to be scared of something.

Using aspartame as a counterexample also doesn't work. While there's a lot of woo out there about it, the science is pretty good on what's wrong with it - just look up some peer-reviewed scientific journals:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231714000640
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22385158
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935

Just because some people go absolutely haywire about it causing everything from sniffles to stomach cancer doesn't mean that there isn't good science about what's wrong with it. Which is a whole lot more than you can say about the anti-vax arguments, whose only "scientific" backing has been roundly discredited.

Finally, the comparison just doesn't work for one extremely basic reason. If you choose to eat, or not eat, aspartame, you're the only one being affected. If you choose not to vaccinate, you're putting a whole lot of other people at risk. This is why society also made a point about wearing condoms if you have HIV, quarantining people with active TB, not accepting blood donations from people with Hep C, etc. The bottom line is that we don't care what you BELIEVE about whether or not you can transmit TB as you're coughing bloody sputum into your sleeve, we're not going to tolerate you strolling untreated through Grand Central Station. We don't care that you BELIEVE Hep C is bullroar and you have never had any symptoms anyway, we aren't going to accept you at the local plasma center and put your blood products in someone else.

[Orsino]

19. Their problem is with science.

Specifically, with their not knowing any and their not caring to educate themselves.

[Avalux]

20. It's ALL science. Safety is foremost during clinical trials and postmarket surveillance.

If vaccinations were not safe, we would know. There is an enormous amount of evidence supporting the safety of vaccines over the decades; the benefits far outweigh the risks.

"They say these chemicals cause problems and diseases that are worse than the disease the vaccine is preventing."

I challenge anyone who believes such things to prove it. They can't.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. But you are incorrect about that. There is an international community of people who refuse

vaccines and no matter how you slice it the majority of them do so for religious reasons. They are not concerned about 'chemicals' nor do they deny that they work, they simply think they are against God's will. Another large group of them refuse vaccines because of 'aborted fetuses' being used in them. Again, not chemicals or possible harm, nor doubt about the vaccines working as promised, but simply a dogmatic objection to the use of the vaccines themselves.
Look it up. Check out the Dutch Bible Belt outbreaks, as well as outbreaks in Canada and the US around the Reformed Church.
So you are just wrong about what 'most' of them object to and why. Most of them are just religious.

[4now]

26. Sounds like just another excuse for them to be stupid

Fear of chemicals.

[LynnTTT]

30. Everything is science!!

My car uses gasoline and battery acid to work. Both of those "compounds" are dangerous if ingested or inhaled. Doesn't mean we get rid of cars

[HappyMe]

31. Acid diethanolamine condensate!

That is the chemical name for .....better sit down......




coconut oil!

[SidDithers]

33. Everything is chemicals!!!...

Sid

[LanternWaste]

34. What's your objective source on the following allegations...

What's your objective source on the following allegations, "The problem most anti-vaxxers have is..." and "Most anti-vaxxers don't dispute..."?

[Warpy]

35. Rubbish, they just don't want to be told what to do

Add ignorance and bone laziness and you get an antivaxer.

[eissa]

43. I don't think it's the chemicals but rather

the fact that they inject multiple vacs in infants at one time. Let me start off by saying that both my kids were fully vaccinated. However, I do have a friend that is concerned with many of the newer vacs that are now prescribed, and moreso, that they are injected to infants in one appointment. When her pediatrician wanted to give her 8-month old SEVEN vaccinations in one visit, she balked. She's not anti-vax, but just felt instinctively that giving that many injections to an infant in one visit was too much. So she spaces them out and has her kids given vaccinations one at a time. Honestly, I don't see the harm in that, and if I had to do it over again I probably would consider doing that myself. I can understand the concern that many new parents have. A colleague has a child with severe autisim and it's heartbreaking. With no definitive answers to its cause, and with so many cases, it's not hard to understand why new parents are fearful.

[bhikkhu]

44. Most anti-vaxxers don't know jack s**t about the chemicals in vaccines

...and if they bothered to educate themselves about them, they'd find some other bogus reason to remain anti-vaxxers. Its a mindset of fear and ignorance, not a position with any relation to facts.