AirAsia crash: 'Co-pilot was flying plane'

[Little Star]

Remi Plesel is said to have been controlling the plane when it went down

The AirAsia plane that crashed into the Java Sea on 28 December was under the control of its co-pilot when it went down, Indonesian investigators say.

The flight data recorder, retrieved along with the cockpit voice recorder earlier this month, showed Frenchman Remi Plesel was at the controls.

Officials said it was common practice for the co-pilot to take charge.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31034135

Sad.

[FLPanhandle]

1. Was he really flying though

Modern planes and especially Airbus planes, the pilots are only really flying it for a couple of minutes during take off and landing.

I wonder how much real hand-ons flying time he had when they hit that storm?

Probably not much.

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. You would be surprised.

Read up on Air France 447, the one that crashed into the Atlantic in 2009;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

The co-pilot was in control at the beginning of the fatal sequence of events.

One thing that came out about Airbus planes and their controls, is that unlike Boeing products, Airbus uses joystick controllers that are not interlinked, meaning that the copilot could have the stick pulled back fully and the pilot could have his pushed fully forward and neither would have any feel - indication what the other was doing.

It is my understanding that Boeing has always used interlocked yokes, so that if the pilot pulls up and turns left, as an example, the co-pilots controls will do the same thing.

[FLPanhandle]

6. That seems like a pretty severe design flaw

Two pilots doing two different things and neither knows?

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. Hey...they're French!

All joking aside, it isn't an issue if pilot/2nd officer communication is done properly. (I am by no means a pilot, nor do I have any experience flying commercial airliners, just a very healthy fascination!)

Not sure if it is in the Wiki link I gave, but I read a report that stated the copilot of AF 447 had his stick fully back, trying to climb, for most of the 30,000 plus foot plunge, while the pilot was trying to dive to gain more airspeed. That airplane stalled at high altitude and basically fell all the way to the surface flying at a forward rate no faster than a Cessna.


I have no idea whether Airbus has modified this.

I did an OP a few weeks ago stating I thought they would find a similar situation with the Malaysian plane.

[brooklynite]

4. One theory is that the onboard computer disengaged during the climb

...and the flight crew didn't notice until it was too late.

[HERVEPA]

8. Just totally untrue. Your post is clueless.

[FLPanhandle]

9. You obviously need to educate yourself on modern aircraft

Start with reading www.askthepilot.com

There are plenty are articles written by very experienced airline personnel that will back me up.

So, start learning.

[HERVEPA]

12. I read Askthepilot all the time.

Your comments do not jibe with his.

[FLPanhandle]

13. He fights the representation that pilots only sit there

Which is fair, but even he admits in the argument "I’m not opposing the main contention, about the degradation of old-school, hands-on flying skills" when dealing with pilots of modern aircraft.

[HERVEPA]

15. OK. I understand what you're saying.

But I think he indicates that pilots are still doing a lot during the flight.

[Rhinodawg]

2. I think something nefarious was going on.

[Blue_Tires]

5. Nothing more nefarious than the possibility of pilot error

committed by a low-hour co-pilot....

[titaniumsalute]

10. With all due respect...

A co-pilot (actually called a First Office) of an airliner MUST have significant flight hours and a type rating in order to fly that plane. PERIOD. A type rating means they have been tested and checked off as a pilot who can fly that type of aircraft. I'd actually argue that many times a First Officer with fewer hours may be a more "up" on the rules, regs, policies, etc. as newer pilots are a lot closer in date to the actual training they have received. Of course, experience at the stick is always nice...but a First Officer should be able to fly the plane just as good as the Captain.

[FLPanhandle]

11. That's all true, but...

Hours get counted even though the plane is flying itself and most pilots usually are only in control during the take-off and landing phase.

While the First Officer should be able the fly the plane as well as the captain, experience handling the plane during emergency situations is far different than reguluar flying.

[titaniumsalute]

14. Of course it is...

But ALL training regarding flight emergency situations is conducted in the flight sims, not in real cockpits. How many Captains have actually faced real life emergency situations in large commercial aircraft? My brother in law has been a 74 Captain for two decades and has had one in-flight emergency where he needed to take controls to avert a situation immediately. It doesn't happen often to Captains or First Officers.

The flight sims replicate these emergencies so that pilots can hopefully calmly and routinely deal with the reality of what is taking place.

During consolidation during the 2000s there were many times FOs that had ten times more flight experience than a Captain because the FO simply needed a flying job.

[Blue_Tires]

16. While what you're saying is true

(and I'm not saying this is the case here), there have been a lot of problems in recent years with certain Asian carriers promoting unqualified co-pilots and letting them build up hours letting the Captain/automation do the work while only having the most rudimentary of real-world stick skills...

For some countries in that region, the requirements and oversight isn't as strict, and in other countries strict oversight can be bypassed with a bit of cash slipped to the right people...