Leftist Anti austerity party wins big in Greece

[Ichingcarpenter]

“This appears to be a historic victory, a message that does not only concern the Greek people, it resounds all over Europe and brings relief,” Syriza party spokesman Panos Skourletis told Mega TV.

The first official results of the third election in Greece in five years are expected at 7.30pm GMT.

Thousands of Syriza supporters gathered around the party’s main campaign platform in a central Athens square to hail their leader.

Antonis Balousis, a 54-year-old butcher, said: “This is a very important victory for Greece and Europe.

“We are going to prove that a different kind of politics is possible in Europe.”

Neo-Nazi party Golden Dawn and pro-European party To Potami are in a neck-and-neck race for third place with between 6.4 percent and 8.0 percent apiece, the exit polls showed.

Projections showed that Syriza may win an absolute majority of up 158 seats in the 300-seat parliament, meaning it could rule without a coalition partner.




http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/25/greek-election-syriza-confident-of-victory-live-updates

[louis-t]

1. I hope this 'radical left wing' party can turn things around.

I just don't understand how people still vote for conservatives when time after time, their policies hurt the majority of voters. Austerity has failed every single time, yet conservatives still con people into believing it will turn economies around.

[socialist_n_TN]

2. IMO what happens is that the alternatives don't show themselves to be................

any better than the ones who were kicked out. IOW, when your choice is between two centrist parties who BOTH believe in austerity, just a difference in pace FOR the implementing of that austerity, people vacillate wildly between the two trying for something, ANYTHING, to make their lives better.

It's happened everywhere in Europe where austerity has bitten deep. Spain kicked out the center-right for a center-left "socialist" party (SINO) who STILL implemented austerity. Then they kicked out the center-left and went back to the center-right. The next election will probably see Podemos, a Spanish version of Syriza, get elected. And so it goes. Left, right, left, right, left until SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

[FLPanhandle]

3. As long as Greece is on the Euro, austerity is a given.

Regardless of who is in power.

Greece gave up control of their monetary policy with the Euro, so now it's borrow and prove they can pay it back one day (austerity)

Default (austerity)

Give up the Euro (austerity)

[socialist_n_TN]

6. The kind of debt Greece is on the hook for.......

is not about "proving they can pay it back". Or even about paying it back period. What this kind of debt is in fact, a way to keep citizens and democratic governments under the control of the banks. Greece needs to IMMEDIATELY go to a program of organizing society to meet the immediate needs of the people and worry about the international implications later.

[FLPanhandle]

8. How are they going to pay for it?

They don't take in enough tax revenue to cover their own spending. They don't have control of their own monetary policy and can't devalue their currency.

They are forced to borrow money continuously to keep going. That model isn't sustainable.

There isn't an easy way out for them and every path leads to the same short term solution: raise tax revenue and cut spending.

[MrMickeysMom]

11. How about not paying for it at all?

I'm thinking, "Iceland".

[2naSalit]

16. Ditto! n/t

[FLPanhandle]

20. That's the default option

Fine but no one will them money after defaulting, that's why they havene't done it yet.

If no one lends them money then they have to cover their budget deficient by raising taxes and cutting spending.

They have the Euro so they can't devalue the currency.

So, basically, you are recommending the most draconian / austerity option available to them.

[MrMickeysMom]

24. "So, basically, you are recommending the most draconian / austerity option available to them…"

Then, why wasn't this the same outcome for Iceland?

[FLPanhandle]

26. Because Iceland wasn't on the Euro

And they could control their own monetary policy.

Greece doesn't have the flexibility that Iceland had.

Greece gave up control of their monetary policy and ability to devalue currency or print currency or have a central bank when they signed up for the Euro

[MrMickeysMom]

29. They perhaps could make the case against predatory lending that has been through the courts...

elsewhere…

[FLPanhandle]

31. Greece, economically, just doesn't fit the EU

It's not predatory lending that did them in, it's being on the Euro and abdicating all monetary control while having an economy that doesn't fit with more efficient and prosperous economies in the EU like Germany.

They were doomed once they joined the EU, it was a ticking time bomb waiting for the first economic downturn.

[MrMickeysMom]

61. Actually, FLP, that's not true...

What economically got them into this mess were the same international banking rulers playing MAJOR rolls in ruining these nations. In OUR NAME, the CIA's played right along with them in covertly to install our own little dictators. The CIA has played it roll to install such dictators. Think Iran… then think Greek military juntas of the 60's and 70's, where the perfect storm was brewed to halt the progress of these countries to nationalize their own resources.

International banksters know no boundaries of working this kind of disaster to the detriment of those citizens. This is why I picked up my morning paper to see, "Radical Left Wing Party" take overs in Greece's election.

Tell me… what's so radical about taking your own country back from the international banksters?

[ND-Dem]

37. which is probably why some in the party are talking about getting off the euro

[FLPanhandle]

41. That'll be painful and require austerity measures too.

Probably the best thing to do in the long run, but very painful in the short term. Will the government survive during the transition?

[ND-Dem]

49. Then why wasn't it equally painful for iceland? You seem to want to have it both ways.

I believe there are a number of countries who defaulted on rigged loans and it turned out to be a wise choice, besides.

[whatthehey]

71. Completely separate issue. Greece has massive sovereign debt; Iceland did not

Iceland's debt has massively INCREASED since their banking collapse in 08 from about 50 to 96% of GDP. Greece's is 175% and climbing.

Iceland had a banking crisis not a debt crisis. Completely separate cause, solution and situation. Buzzwords like "austerity" don't always indicate similar scenarios.

Iceland could, did, (and still can although with more difficulty) borrow to keep up spending after letting their banks fail. If Greece defaults on their much more crippling ecxternal debt, that avenue will be closed for a long long time and they will have to either raise taxes (and actually collect them) cut spending or both

[ND-Dem]

73. Japan's sovereign debt is about 230% of the GNP, but they're doing reasonably well. They don't

have 30% unemployment, for starters.

US is about 80% and has higher unemployment than japan. Perhaps we should invade ourselves.

[whatthehey]

80. And Japan is not seriously suggesting defaulting on that debt like Syriza is

Since unemployment and debt are only tangentially related in the smallest degree, I'll ignore that digression and the sillines of invasion too and return to the economics.

Japan has far more economic infrastructure than Greece. It has a more developed economy, a better education system, about an 80% higher GDP/ capita than Greece (and hence a far greater base for tax revenue), nigh infinitely better transportation and communication system, its own currency, and a staggering savings rate and literally twice the net worth per capita than Greece whether measured at the median or the mean. In other words anyone deciding which country to loan money to would be certifiably insane not to give Japan a far lower interest rate at least and more likely at the worst to simply loan to Japan but not to Greece.

Japan has many economic issues, mostly demographic, but they are not close to being the same basket case as Greece is, especially if they default on current loans.

[ND-Dem]

85. and you have special pleading for everything. it's all a special case to you; greece's debt is the

problem, except when Japan's is bigger.

[FLPanhandle]

90. Japan has control of their own monetary policy

They can devalue the yen and can pay off their debt.

Greece is unlike Iceland and Japan because they don't have control of their own currency. They are on the Euro and that is controlled centrally by the EU, so Greece is basically fucked.

They abdicated control by joining the EU which was great for them in good times, and devastating bad for them when the financial crisis hit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

91. Japan's government also owns the debt mostly to Japanese people or corporations

According to this, only 8.4% of Japanese government debt is held by foreigner. It's denominated in yen, and the holders have a long record of sticking with Japanese government bonds, rather than looking around to other countries at the drop of a hat.

It's not a question of 'special pleading'; it's recognising that economies and situations are different.

[ND-Dem]

92. but that's not what the poster said, is it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6139307

[muriel_volestrangler]

93. That's what the word 'also' means

The other poster's points are good; I'm just adding something more.

[ND-Dem]

94. yours is the only point that's actually salient. the rest is special pleading. greece's problem is

because it hasn't had control of its currency or monetary policy. not because it has high debt levels per se or anything else the poster brought up.

[grahamhgreen]

69. You mean no loan sharks will allow themselves to con the people out of their money.

[Bandit]

89. They will raise taxes considerably on the very wealthy

The very wealthy are soon going to need a place to hide because the world is awakening. There are still a few countries where they can pay very little in taxes, America being one for those but that too will change in the not too distant future. It has to. The world can not function in this manner of shoveling all resources to the elite, leaving nothing for the very great majority of the people. Hell even Republicans are starting to talk about it.. When that happens you know things are about to come unglued..

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. Iceland never defaulted on any government debts

In Iceland, the problem was not government debts - those were always under control, and they continued to honour them.

The Icelandic problem was that it was home to some high risk banks, who were borrowing and lending lots of money outside Iceland, and when the global crash happened, they turned out to be bankrupt. Iceland decided to let them go bankrupt (as opposed to what Ireland did with its risky banks - the Irish government took their debts on itself, and thus saddled the country with a huge amount of extra debt).

Iceland also had its own currency, which meant it could immediately devalue - which did make anything imported significantly more expensive (including mortgages denominated in Euros, which many people had; Iceland subsequently adjusted some mortgages that had gone under water). Greece would have to leave the Euro (which Syriza has said they don't want to do) to get a similar level of control over their economy to Iceland.

[magical thyme]

66. ditto again.

that's the 1st thought that occurred to me.

And a second thought is this: the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox churches are very similar.

[KingCharlemagne]

52. Expropriate the productive and financial assets of the top 1% and place them in the service

of the people.

[socialist_n_TN]

64. Why yes, that would do it!..........

If we had a "like" button, your post would get a "like".

[Amishman]

82. A bandaid at best

Greece does not have a robust crust of the ultra wealthy. The few individuals wealthy enough to make a dent in the Greek debt burden are individuals with strong international roots and are unlikely to have much of their assets where the Greek people can reach.

The total Greek debt is a bit over $400 billion dollars.

The richest Greek citizen is Filaretos Kaltsidis, worth 6.7 billion. He has Russian citizenship as well and most of his wealth is a Russian cement company. His assets would be very difficult to touch

#2 - Jim Davis - $3.2 billion - owner of New Balance. His wealth is also international and would be hard to touch.

#3 Spiros Latsis - $3 billion - much of his assets are EFG Bank Luxembourg

#4 John paul DeJoria $2.4 billion - mining industry, now largely operating out of the UK

See the trend? The richest Greek citizens make their money and keep it outside of Greece.

[KingCharlemagne]

96. Look, I'll just come out and say it: fuck the bourgeoisie and their

capitalist banking industry. They were fine with Greece borrowing up to the wazoo to finance the purchase of their industrial output. Without Greek consumption, German and French plants would have lain idle. And so now the Greek people are supposed to suffer while the French and German bourgeoisie don't even get barely a haircut? Fuck that.

Fuck the bourgeoisie. Greek workers must seize control of their means of production and the assets of their elites (such as they can). Anyone who is Greek who has his or her assets sheltered abroad should be incarcerated until such time as he or she remits those assets to the Greek people. Or they can GTFO of Greece, because they are parasites for whom the Greek people have no use.

[sabrina 1]

87. They shouldn't pay it, they should start rounding up the thieves who profited from these policies,

PUSHED them on the people and made THEM pay for the corruption of the politicians and big banks. Those thieves even went so far as to undo an election in Greece a few years ago and INSTALL one of Goldman Sachs operatives to keep things going they way they were.

Iceland rounded up all their crooked bankers and politicians and they survived economically, far better than the rest of Europe who bent over for Wall St.

They should go after the money that is in offshore accounts, the loot iow, stolen and hidden away. A good way to pay off any debt. Though frankly those claiming there is a debt HAVE that money. THEY should be ordered to return it and then tried and jailed for the horrific damage they inflicted on the people of Greece.

[FrodosPet]

95. Wall Street Stunned As Iceland Dares To Jail Banker Involved In 2008 Crash

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-20/wall-street-stunned-iceland-dares-jail-banker-involved-2008-crash

The impossible is possible. Never say never. Wall Street bankers are staring agog at headlines coming from Europe where, in Iceland, the former chief executive of one of the largest banks in the country which was involved in crashing the economy in 2008 has been sentenced to jail time. As Valuewalk reports, in receiving a one year prison sentence, Sigurjon Arnason officially became the first bank executive to be convicted of manipulating the bank’s stock price and deceiving investors, creditors and the authorities between Sept. 29 and Oct. 3, 2008, as the bank’s fortunes unwound, crashing the economy with it. It appears he was as shocked by the verdict as Wall Street-ers are, "this sentence is a big surprise to me as I did nothing wrong." It was likely all for the people's own good...

~ snip ~

In receiving a one year prison sentence, Sigurjon Arnason officially became the first bank executive to be convicted of manipulating the bank’s stock price and deceiving investors, creditors and the authorities between Sept. 29 and Oct. 3, 2008, as the bank’s fortunes unwound, crashing the economy with it. Landsbanki was one of three banks that had tallied nearly $75 billion in debt before the final curtain was drawn.

~ snip ~

The Reykjavik District Court had lopped off nine months of Arnason’s sentence, saying they were suspended. Other bank executives involved in the situation were convicted: Ivar Gudjonsson, the former director of proprietary trading at the bank, along with Julius Heidarsson, a former broker at the bank. They each received nine-month sentences and six of those nine months were immediately suspended by the court.

~ snip ~

[sabrina 1]

98. Yes, I remember it well. A little known Whistle Blowing website at the time, Wikileaks, was the

reason Iceland was able to identify the reason for the collapse of their economy. Word got around that leaked documents regarding corrupt bankers and politicians in Iceland had appeared on the site.

Bankers DEMANDED that Wikileaks remove the documents, claiming they were false etc. Wikileaks refused and promised more.

Thanks to whoever leaked them and to Wikileaks, apparently the ONLY entity at the time, (should have been the media) willing to publish them, Iceland was able to prove their case against the criminals.

Naturally from then on Wikileaks became the enemy and was targeted for extinction. Culminating in the faux 'case' against its founder which still has not been presented in any court.

When you go up against the Big Banks, there is a price to pay. Though that would not be possible if we had a free press.

Which was the reason for the founding of Wikileaks in the first place.

[KingCharlemagne]

97. Brava! Is society to organize itself to serve the interests of the bourgeoisie and the bankers or

are the bankers and bourgeoisie supposed to serve society?

[geek tragedy]

10. that's the second option, default, which still means austerity, since they won't be able

to borrow money.

So, they will have to raise 1 drachma or Euro in tax revenue for every 1 drachma or Euro they spend.

that's austerity

[MFrohike]

54. Not exactly

They are revenue and debt constrained under the Euro, but wouldn't necessarily be under the drachma. The issue is what proportion of their economy is import dependent and how quickly they could switch it over to domestic production. A default, or Euro exit without a default, would be quite painful, but so is the present. It'd probably be better to stay in the Eurozone, but it needs to be seriously rethought.

[geek tragedy]

55. I don't think we disagree. They have no good options.

Question is which is the least intolerable.

[MFrohike]

56. Mostly

The best option for Greece may be to get to fixing the tax evasion problem, start negotiations with the Troika, make contacts with other anti-austerity parties (like-minded parties, so Podemos not Le Pen), and position themselves as well as possible to paint Merkel, Draghi, and the Brussels bureaucrats as irrational ideologues pushing a failed policy. If it was a year ago, I've have suggested negotiations for Russian aid, if only to make Brussels nervous and exert some leverage on them. Too bad for Greece, that option is no longer available.*

So, yeah, the options do kind of suck. I do hope they succeed, though, because Europe is in bad shape.


*I don't think Greece should align themselves with Russia. Ideally, negotiations like that would put their adversaries in Berlin and Brussels off-balance. I suspect Russia would prove every bit as "good" a friend as Berlin has proven.

[polly7]

15. Yes, that is what Tsipras stressed in one of his later speeches.

By Chris Spannos
Source: teleSUR English
January 22, 2015

An overview of how Greece’s Jan. 25 election weighs heavy upon major issues of the day.

It is difficult to overemphasize the importance of the Jan. 25 Greek elections. Out of control economic austerity has left three million Greeks without health insurance, soaring infant mortality, and an increase in suicides. No less than the livelihoods of the Greek people are at stake. At the same time the European Commission, International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank — together known as the troika — are forcing debt repayment conditions that include sweeping privatization of the country’s public assets. If Greeks elect the left wing Syriza party to majority power, the result could transform the character of the Hellenic Republic and the European Union itself.

.....Finally, by reducing family incomes and increasing the unemployment of parents, Greece’s austerity measures have also severely affected the health of children. In October 2014, UNICEF reported that since 2008 Greek child poverty rates have increased by more than 50 percent. A growing number of these children receive inadequate nutrition. The Lancet study reported that between 2008 and 2011 the number of stillbirths rose 21 percent, “The long-term fall in infant mortality has reversed, rising by 43 percent between 2008 and 2010, with increases in both neonatal and post-neonatal deaths.”

The scope of social problems is overwhelming. In order to deal with some of them, Syriza party leader Alexis Tsipras outlined their plan for an immediate response to the humanitarian crisis at the party’s national gathering earlier this month. The plan included food vouchers for the poorest 300,000 households, free healthcare, a shelter program for the homeless, and much more.

Rationalizing how it compromises the Hellenic Republic’s national sovereignty to international capital, HRADF views privatization, not merely as a sale of public assets, but a “key element in re-establishing credibility” for the return of Greece as a player in global capital markets. HRADF was created in 2011 with the sole mission of maximize profits from the sale of Greece’s public assets. More than 80,000 properties have been assessed, 3,000 preselected for development and 1,000 already transferred to the body for privatization. The HRADF boasts of having already “raised” 3.1 billion of its 7.7 billion euro (US $8.9 billion) transaction value. It prides itself in that a large number of regulatory, administrative and technical barriers have been slashed to speed up privatizations.

More: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/what-is-at-stake-in-the-greek-elections/

[Ichingcarpenter]

17. Great link

Thanks


BTW. the IMF is evil .....economic hit men....the world over for privatization.......oh and just see what the head leader just said about the Saudi King being a advocate for women...........mind you this was said by a woman mind you....... talk about bullshit......The guardian had a good call out on that crap

[polly7]

18. Yvw, and I agree with you about the IMF .. and the accolades for a mysoginist, brutal *. nt.

[MisterP]

9. well, a lot of countries don't even have a Syirza--or, more fatally, pretend they have one

[stillwaiting]

19. If Syriza wins an outright majority I just hope that they haven't been infiltrated by corporatists..

... like the socialists have in many countries in Europe.

The multinational corporations have such an iron grip on national governments world-wide (with very few exceptions).

If they've been infiltrated by corporatists then they are not "radical leftists", and they certainly would not govern as such.

I have no idea whether they have or not.

Of course, I truly hope they haven't.

[FrodosPet]

99. Syriza did have to go into coalition with a far right party

Hopefully they don't wake up with fleas

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/26/syriza-forms-government-rightwing-independent-greeks-party

Syriza’s Tsipras sworn in after Greek government formed with rightwingers

A new chapter in Greece’s uphill struggle to remain solvent – and in the eurozone – has begun in earnest as anti-austerity politicians assumed the helm of government following the radical left Syriza party’s spectacular electoral victory on Sunday night.

~ snip ~

The leftist, who surprised Greeks by speedily agreeing to share power with the populist rightwing Independent Greeks party, Anel, was on Monday afternoon handed a mandate by president Karolos Papoulias to form a government following his investiture at the presidential palace. Afterwards, the new prime minister pronounced that he will give his all “to protect the interests of the Greek people”.

~ snip ~

With 36.3 % of the vote, Syriza fell two seats short of the 151 MPs it needed to govern alone. The Independent Greeks, who have huge ideological differences with the leftists but are bonded by the desire to end biting EU-IMF-mandated cutbacks, won 4.75% of the vote and 13 seats. The conservative New Democracy party – the dominant force in a coalition lead by the outgoing prime minister Antonis Samaras – suffered ignominious defeat, collapsing to 76 seats in the 300-seat parliament.

~ snip ~

Who are the Independent Greeks?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/26/greece-elections-who-are-independent-greeks

~ snip ~

Under their leader Panos Kammenos, who defected from the centre-right New Democracy party to form Anel at the height of the crisis in February 2012, the group has proved to be rabidly nationalistic in foreign affairs.

The politician is particularly virulent on the issue of the need to reclaim war reparations that he argues were never properly dealt with after the Nazis’ brutal occupation of the country. He was accused of being antisemitic when he claimed last month that Greek Jews paid less tax than other citizens.

His party is part of the European Conservatives and Reformists political group in the European parliament, which was founded at the behest of David Cameron.

Both Syriza and Independent Greeks agree on the need to end austerity. And both hold strident views on the especially sensitive issue of Greek sovereignty having been denuded as a result of six years of stewardship under Athens’ hated “troika” of creditors. Anel, like Syriza, says foreign lenders have turned the debt-crippled country into a “debt colony”.

~ snip ~

[BrotherIvan]

4. One word: ICELAND

I know they are hampered by the Euro and all that entails, but I do hope they pull it off. Spain will be next.

[FLPanhandle]

5. I don't think Iceland was ever on the Euro

That's what saved them. They could control their own monetary policy.

[MrMickeysMom]

13. That's what Greece wants to get back to...

...control of their own money.

Reverse neo feudalism and jail the bankers seems like a good plan.

[FLPanhandle]

21. It'll be painful in the short term but probably better for them in the long term.

Hindsight being 20/20 going to the EU was a major mistake for Greece. They didn't fit.

[mountain grammy]

7. I do too.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/financial-recovery-of-iceland-a-case-worth-studying-a-942387.html

[whatthehey]

74. One word for what?

Greece's external debt is well over 3 times what Iceland's was at the time of their banking collapse and they kept paying (and borrowing, it's since nearly doubled). Greece is not a banking crisis but a DEBT crisis, hampered by the monetary restrictions of a shared currency that Iceland did not face either.

It's almost impossible for the two situations to be much more different.

[geek tragedy]

12. Lots of people are in for a rude awakening when they find

that austerity is not avoidable for countries on the verge of default.

avoiding austerity depends on the availability of money that's independent from tax revenue. Either monetary-wise through currency devaluation (not an option since they are in the Euro and all their debt is Euro-denominated anyways) or by borrowing (not an option since no one is going to lend to them after they default)

[kelliekat44]

32. For years, Greece did or could not collect taxes from their wealthy elites or much of other populate

This ought to prove that, contrary to what the RWingers put out all over the world, taxes are needed to support the government in providing services, maintaining certain standards of living, protecting its citizens. RW governments all over the world were and still are fraught with corruption, greed, and indifference to the masses. That is not a workable formula for either democracy, capitalism, or communism or socialism. Until governments are run by honest, intelligent, and altruistic leaders unrest, war, and revolt will be the way of the future for all of us.

[deutsey]

40. "Austerity" has been the goal since Reagan, imo

I don't think any of this is just a recent development by happenstance. Reaganism and Thatcherism were the opening salvos in the elites' war to redistribute wealth back to themselves and to return society to not just the Robber Barons, but to the old aristocratic order.

What we're experiencing now is just the endgame.

[ND-Dem]

38. or maybe someone will invade them; it seems to be the thing these days

[geek tragedy]

42. Who's going to invade, ISIS? Turkey? Russia? nt

[ND-Dem]

57. The ones who like to invade so much. The ones doing most of the invading going round.

[geek tragedy]

58. So, either ISIS or Russia. nt

[ND-Dem]

68. No, I don't think they win the invasion sweepstakes.

[geek tragedy]

75. Technically, either the Roman Empire or Alexander the Great

win that one.

Who are you imagining is a threat to invade Greece?

This ought to be good.

[ND-Dem]

77. Biggest invader post WW2 = US

[geek tragedy]

78. No sane person believes the US is going to

invade Greece.

[ND-Dem]

83. Depends on what you mean by invade. Read up on the period of the generals.

[geek tragedy]

86. Invade as a pretty specific meaning.

Look at a map, and enlighten us as to how this would work.

Sorry, this one falls squarely under "anti-American delusional fantasy."

[JEB]

67. Oh hell yes. A little shock and awe

will teach those Greeks a thing or two about democracy.

Sarcasm.

[grahamhgreen]

70. It's a con. They lend money they know can't be paid back so they can control the country. People are

better off without them

[Adrahil]

14. This is good news.... so long as they have a practical plan.

So often, we see "rainbow drippings and unicorn farts" as the plan (See: The Chavista Bolivarans) that is doomed to fail. Here's hoping they have a plan that is based on real, executable ideas that won't result in massive Venezuela-type failure.

I really hope they succeed, because they really CAN demonstrate an effective alternative to center-right, pro-corporate "austerity" politics.

[malaise]

22. Really great news

Let this be the end of neo-liberalism - come on dominoes - fall everywhere.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. Time to post this again....

Feel free to post it in response to the classic "Crazy Uncle" who claims the "Commies" are taking over.

[Enthusiast]

36. +1

[sabrina 1]

25. Great now maybe they can do what Iceland did, arrest all their crooked bankers and politicians who

sold their country to the IMF and get out of the EU which has done nothing but rob them of their resources.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Good. That's one of the payoffs of a parliamentary system that we lack.

[sabrina 1]

28. Goldman Sachs and all their henchmen that RUINED the Greek economy are not going to be happy. Time

to start arresting people, though most of them will probably flee.

[polly7]

30. Just how many countries has Goldman Sachs ruined, anyway?

I'm curious how big a part they've played everywhere. I have to say ......... I don't really like them much at all.

[sabrina 1]

48. Several of the 'leaders' who were more or less installed, in fact I think one was actually installed

in Greece 'to manage their finances', in several countries over the past number of years. I would have to go back and look to refresh my memory, but I believe Belgium which appears to be where the decisions are made for all these once autonomous countries, had many former Goldman Sachs CEOs 'helping' to make those disastrous decisions.

Yes, a Goldman operative WAS installed in Greece, just looked it up.

Here is an overview of how Goldman Sachs/Wall destroyed Europe, starting with Greece airc. It explains in a simple way their methods, which btw, they used in Argentina and other S. American nations.


Goldman Sachs' Global Coup D'etat

There’s one tie that binds Lucas Papademos in Greece, Henry Paulsen in the United States, and Mark Carney in the U.K., and that’s Goldman Sachs. All were former bankers and executives at the Wall Street giant, all assumed prominent positions of power, and all played a hand after the global financial meltdown of 2007-08, thus making sure Goldman Sachs weathered the storm and made significant profits in the process.

But that's just scratching the surface.

It's worth reading the whole article. I have tried to follow this story since the first signs of the Global collapse were reported by Bloomberg when Iceland's economy crashed. And then one by one, the rest of Europe's.

S. America began its fight against the same tactics in 2002 with the election of Chavez. Indebted to the IMF, as are most Europeans now, who ever would have thought that could happen, Chavez paid off that debt, cutting ties that bound them to a life of enslavement to the World Bank/IMF.

Which is why you see all the hatred for Chavez and then the rest of those S.American nations who followed Ven. example.

I am thrilled but worried about this victory AGAINST Wall St. These thugs don't give up easily, they are still trying to destroy Venezuela with their right wing thugs 'protesters'.

[polly7]

51. Thank you!

I'm off to read that link. I remember Goldman Sachs had something to do with Libya pre-overthrow, too, though I can't remember what it was.

Yes, they are still trying to destroy Venezuela ....... it's disgusting to watch.

Thanks again!

[malaise]

35. Tsipras just said it well

We defeated the oligarchs!

[deutsey]

33. Very happy to hear this. n/t

[TRoN33]

34. I remember Raw Story once published story about fear of

another right wing take over of Europe. So far they hasn't successful. I wasn't impressed with Raw and since stopped going into there.

[rdking647]

39. greece is fucked no matter what they do

if the stay of the austerity program the people suffer
if the reject it and get booted from the euro the people suffer.

thats what i hate about the euro. giving up control of your countries monetary policy is just stupid. if they were an iceland for example they could just devalue the currency,print money and move on. but being on teh euro they cant.

without austerity no one will loan them the money they need to fund the government.

[hunter]

43. German wealth is as corrupt as Greek wealth, Germany just doesn't know it.

It will take some creative thinking to solve this problem and the last people anyone should be listening to are the bankers.

[roamer65]

44. China and Russia will loan them money. They will leave the Eurozone to get it.

The Euro is toast. Spain will do the same in a few months with Podemos.

[rdking647]

46. russia doesnt have any money to loan

i doubt china will loan then anything either

[roamer65]

47. Russia is in bed with the Chinese through SCO.

if they can get Greece to leave the EU, they definitely will pony up. Greece may also leave NATO. That would be a feather in their cap.

Russia has already offered to drop sanctions on them if they leave the EU.

[geek tragedy]

76. I guess if they want to stop exporting goods to the

EU that is a solid plan. Similarly voiding the right of all Greeks to work and travel freely within the EU would be WELL worth whatever champions of democracy and self-determination Russia and China have to offer. Maybe they can declare themselves part of Asia while they're at it.

[lovemydog]

45. Good news. I wish them success. It's a tough road

but I hope they can get away from over-dependence on bankers. I also hope they get the rich to pay their fair share in the recovery, or get jailed and their assets seized.

[Zorra]

50. K&R nt

[Cha]

53. Sounds good.. and good luck them in Greece!

[liberal_at_heart]

59. A victory for the people! We are facing a global income inequality crisis. This problem is not just

in the US. I'm so glad to see Greece strike a blow against income inequality. Way to go! Now those of us fighting this battle in other countries must do the same thing.

[Overseas]

62. K&R. Yes please!

[valerief]

63. Does this mean we're going to invade Greece now? nt

[stillwaiting]

79. "Our" intelligence agencies will probably have more work to do there now that's for sure. nt

[RunInCircles]

65. Germany got loan forgiveness of 90% of their world war II loans

Germany ran up significant dept almost 10x their GDP as Hitler borrowed to finance his World War II conquest ambitions.
How many remember that the US and Great Britain forgave 90% of their dept. Great Britain paid more of their World War II dept than Germany paid even though Germany lost the war. Why did we do it? We had learned that crushing Germany economically after World War I just made the same conflict needing to be fought again. Germany apparently did not learn the same lesson and their "New WAR on Europe" fought through dept and punitive austerity can only result in more conflict. This is part of a global war of the elite bankers against the rest of the human population. Given that Germany is now a key player in trying to crush the economies of the rest of Europe perhaps somebody could ask Germany to repay their World War II dept now. This would be more than sufficient to turn the economy of the rest of Europe around and crush Germany in the process.
History lessons apparently have to be relearned as soon as the generation that lived through the last lesson pass away. 1 century ago we spent the first 50 years learning some important lessons about wealth inequality and how these conditions led to instability and military conflict. Will we spend the first 50 years of this century relearning the exact same lessons?

[grahamhgreen]

72. DOW drops a mere 10 points

[cephasjimes7]

81. hi

like to know more

[KamaAina]

84. Opaa!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

88. They should do it the American Way and bail out the banks and corporations, not the people.

Shame on them.

[Fred Sanders]

100. No government in Greece ever had the interests of the working man as the priority. Now there is.

They get their chance now, it is only fair and equitable that the 99% get a turn...how much worse could it be?

Think Bolivia, it can be done.

Socialism not messed with by capitalist counter forces, works, because inequality distorts everything. The quickest solution is changes in the tax code.

Need to pay the banksters, begin with making those most able to pay pay first and pay most.

The capitalist alarm bells sound so loud only because they also own most of the bells.