"He died at age 54 of multiple organ failure, but in a deeper sense he died of inequality"

[kpete]

Where’s the Empathy?
JAN. 24, 2015
Nicholas Kristof


Kevin Green, left, and Nicholas Kristof in 1977. Credit Yamhill - Carlton Union High School



YAMHILL, Ore. — THE funeral for my high school buddy Kevin Green is Saturday, near this town where we both grew up.

The doctors say he died at age 54 of multiple organ failure, but in a deeper sense he died of inequality and a lack of good jobs.

Lots of Americans would have seen Kevin — obese with a huge gray beard, surviving on disability and food stamps — as a moocher. They would have been harshly judgmental: Why don’t you look after your health? Why did you father two kids outside of marriage?

That acerbic condescension reflects one of this country’s fundamental problems: an empathy gap. It reflects the delusion on the part of many affluent Americans that those like Kevin are lazy or living cushy lives. A poll released this month by the Pew Research Center found that wealthy Americans mostly agree that “poor people today have it easy because they can get government benefits without doing anything in return.”



the rest (beautiful tribute to his friend):
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-wheres-the-empathy.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion%C2%AEion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article

[99Forever]

1. This is the new normal.

I see similar stories happening around me almost daily. America has lost it's way.

[Triana]

2. America has lost its mind...and its heart. n/t

[daleanime]

7. I agree and disagree....

for decades Americans have been told that we don't need our hearts, that there are certain people are undeserving of our help and that we can not afford to give that help to them anyways. True this shit fell on fertile soil, by design, and those who willing followed this crap are contemptible. But my true disgust and rage is reserved for those used this just to line their pockets.

[calimary]

10. True enough. Remember when the dick (cheney) openly scoffed at the whole idea of empathy?

OPENLY. In public. On the "Meet the Press" shows and other public speaking opportunities and react opportunities the media always gave him. LAUGHED at it. It was "weakness" in his eyes. Empathy is something you LAUGH at. Then romney and others of his ilk come along behind that and reinforce it by denouncing and sneering at all those of our fellow citizens who just want "free stuff." "Free stuff"???? Helping you be able to afford to PAY FOR health insurance, at long last? Helping you to be able to afford to PAY FOR food with that paltry amount of food stamps you're allotted? So your children don't fucking STARVE? That's just been reduced to "free stuff"???? Spoken by too many of those who live so comfortably and have so much and have so much power and influence that they'll never know or understand what it's like to live as the poor and the working poor are forced to do?

And worse, those who add religion into this, in a hideous way to "explain" this part of the human condition. It's the whole "religious" application of "I am blessed by God because I'm RICH. That PROVES I have God's favor! So by that logic, those poor people over there have somehow fallen from God's favor. We all know (wink wink) that this "proves" they're among the damned." That then makes it easy to rationalize that compassion is a fool's errand because these people are lazy moochers who deserve what's happening to them, and literally, that makes them not blessed by God, and not worthy of empathy or compassion. It's their own damn fault." People using various definitions and concepts of "God" to justify being cold-hearted and just damned fucking CRUEL.

No wonder too much of America hasn't just lost its collective mind or heart - it's lost its collective soul.

[daleanime]

13. You better believe that I remember......

there is some scum in this world not even fit to be used as fertilizer.

[elzenmahn]

20. This is what happens...

...when the country is taken over by PSYCHOPATHS.

It used to be that these types at least tried to hide their psycopathy with a vaneer of facial and verbal expressions that, for some, were convincing enough to be confused by the masses as empathy. Now, they don't even bother - which indicates to me that they no longer see "we the people" as a threat to them any longer.

Scary.

[Tace]

21. Calimary, Are You Writing Regular Columns Again?

You make so much sense. --Tace

[surrealAmerican]

25. This mentality comes directly from the idea that we all must compete ...

... with each other for limited resources. You need people to lose in order to consider yourself a winner. The more they lose - the more you win.

It's all a game - a zero sum game - where helping a "loser" will make you a loser too, because you should instead be gaining from their loss.

[ND-Dem]

51. "because you should instead be gaining from their loss" = yes. it's very creepy & depressing

[calimary]

71. That's a really great summary, surrealAmerican.

Someone else needs to lose so YOU can win. There's no such thing as - we can all help each other and win together. Predatory. Lizard brain. Selfish as sin. IGMFU (I-Got-Mine, F-U).

And all the while, they'll be the same ones who loudly and proudly boast about how much more "Christian" they are than the rest of you are.

[Art_from_Ark]

84. How I miss the Great Society

It really seemed like there was a spirit of cooperation back then to try to make everyone's lives better. Then came the so-called "Me Generation" of the '70s, and it's been pretty much downhill ever since.

[closeupready]

37. Remember when Condaleeza Rice simpered at Christmas that the lives lost were worth it

in Iraq? I'll never ever forget that as long as I live.

So yeah, lack of empathy sometimes seemed to have been not just a prerequisite to serve in that administration, but key to getting promoted.

[ND-Dem]

52. I thought that was madeline albright, clinton's UN ambassador.

[closeupready]

54. Not the footage I recall - I recall it as vividly as if it aired yesterday.

Madeline Albright may have said something similar, however, but I have no knowledge of that if she did.

[ND-Dem]

57. don't see how you could have missed it. I, on the other hand, never heard Rice say anything similar

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

Then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's quote, calmly asserting that U.S. policy objectives were worth the sacrifice of half a million Arab children, has been much quoted in the Arabic press. It's also been cited in the United States in alternative commentary on the September 11 attacks (e.g., Alexander Cockburn, New York Press, 9/26/01).

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/we-think-the-price-is-worth-it/

[closeupready]

62. Ok, right, yes, I do remember that footage. On Rice, I'll have to search later -

I know it's on Youtube. Cheers.

[ND-Dem]

65. thanks.

[LongTomH]

68. .....and its soul!

[The Green Manalishi]

17. The only point where I see he had anything to do with going off the tracks is

that -strictly to my own ethos, not judging- they should have gotten married and the two of them should have made it work, come hell or high water. If I hadn't of had a wonderful wife who stood by me (and vice versa) when jobs got lost and things turned to shit) I wouldn't have fared any better.

But yeah, the jobs are the main thing; America is very unkind to those unable to work.

[99Forever]

22. I don't agree, at all.

Marriage isn't some magic fix-all for a broken society. In my life I have seen and known both highly successful people, complete failures, and virtually everything in between. as far as I can tell, marital status wasn't the deciding factor in most cases. I see your perspective as nothing more than victim blaming.

[The Green Manalishi]

30. Well, it was in my case.

Without my wife and I deciding that we're in it together until death do us part I wouldn't have ended up any better. And I don't give a shit as to what you see my perspective as.

[99Forever]

31. "And I don't give a shit as to what you see my perspective as."

Right back at you.

[The Green Manalishi]

32. Good

Sometimes the victim has a bit of responsibility for the outcome.
If I hadn't of lost a buttload of weight by running and eating less and kept applying for job after shitty job after shitty job (when my good one went away) I'd be dead or nearly so not, too. In a way this article is about a fate that nearly caught up to me and has gotten a couple of my friends, Yeah, under employment not only sucks but is deadly. And the underlying cause is this decayed capitalist state. But

You can't EVER give up. I've got a good friend who is almost a clone of this guy; let himself get 100 lbs overweight, has diabetes, won't work out, won't even try to get a job any more. He'll be dead the same way in a year or two. I should be sympathetic, but actually I find myself more pissed at him because I've done EVERYTHING I can, from just listening non judgmentally (for years) to writing resumes, to buying him food and good clothes and anything else but after a few years I'm at wit's end. Can;'t take responsibility for someone else but I can't find much sympathy for someone who gives up.

[99Forever]

33. More victim blaming.

Color me surprised.

Not.

I heard this somewhere before.

[The Green Manalishi]

34. Yep.

And I make no apologies for it.

just because I think the excesses of capitalism evil, that society has an obligation to those who can't help themselves, that government is overall a force for good, racism, sexism and homophobia are bad, and that we should stop screwing up the earth's environment doesn't mean that basic personal responsibility, such as never giving up, letting one's health go to hell or failing to raise kids you brought into the world are unrealistic expectations for any adult.

[99Forever]

38. It isn't just the excesses of capitalism.

The system isn't broken, the system is fixed.

It's the BS thinking that "anyone can make it in capitalism." It's just fucking plain wrong and a lie, an oft told rightwing lie, btw. By it's very design, capitalism REQUIRES losers(victims) and that doesn't change just because you aren't one YET. You have no gawddamn idea what obstacles others face in life, but your rush to judgment speaks volumes about you and nothing about them.

[AtheistCrusader]

39. Think of it this way.

I don't remember who told me this, wish I could, but someone once explained to me, that I could be having the shittiest week of my life, dog dies, friend dies, stuff stolen, job lost, whatever. Total horror fest. But at the end of the day, if I snap at some poor bystander, yell at them, be discourteous, etc, that's on me. That's a choice *I* make. I can choose to treat other people with kindness, or I can choose to be an asshole. Just because the world seems stacked against me, doesn't take away that choice.


Subject of the OP made similar choices. Unfortunately, those choices made the situation worse, not better. Get a back injury at work? L&I. Get that fixed. As best you can. Whatever it takes. Don't? AND you load up 100+ extra pounds of weight onto it? You just made a bad choice. You just made it so bad, that even a competent back surgeon and the funding to get you cared for, may not be able to repair you.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Kevin Green, but I can also see some areas where he massively compounded his problems. It's not wrong to recognize that. You might see it as victim blaming, but in this case, without being judgmental about it, without affixing blame to the origins of his problems, I disagree with the characterization.

Some of us are dealt pretty awesome hands. Some of us get dealt some stupendous shit. But you still have choices. You still own the outcome of those choices.

What this story points out, correctly, is that not everyone starts from the same place, not everyone gets the same opportunities for that boot-strappy fantasy the right wing is always pushing.

[closeupready]

40. Thing is, I guess it boils down to Kristof's credibility, which is not unimpeachable.

In other words, if we believed he is an honest professional journalist who reports the truth, and interprets facts through his own lens, then the fact that he is arguing that inequality paved the way towards an early death for Kevin Green - a very real person who was known to Kristof - would seem to me to be believable.

Having said that, I know Kristof is a right-winger and has promoted all kinds of right-wing bullshit in his op-eds over the last 15 years (at least), so I think he has besmirched his credibility, so there's that.

[The Green Manalishi]

43. The article rings true with me

I know four guys who either are or will soon be in that position. It's never all them or all society.

One guy, a best man at my wedding. He's been told his doctor will not see him anymore. He's 150 lbs overweight, will NOT go on a diet, will NOT exercise, has type 2, blames everyone else. I love the man, but there comes a point where he has to take the responsibility for not putting away the junk food and getting off his ass and getting some exercise; two doctors have told him that, I've told him that (and will gladly be his trainer), his GF left him because of that. TV and a bag of chips is more important than eyesight and teeth and limbs.

[closeupready]

49. Is there mental illness involved there, do you think? Sometimes,

I think that about the loved ones in my own life who have obesity problems - they don't exercise or eat right because they actually hate themselves. Part of why I try to bite my tongue particularly around overweight people. Just sad.

[The Green Manalishi]

70. Almost by definition

Although I am obviously not a mental health professional, but wouldn't one definition of 'mental illness' being refusal to take of yourself to the degree that doing so is in your own power? I kind of put my friend in the same category as people who cut themselves or otherwise damage themselves for nothing in return.

He was genuinely indignant that a doctor 'fired him'.

As we evolve towards universal healthcare, I wonder if the ethos needs to change: if a person won't do what is reasonably in their power to take care of their health is society obligated to provide them with healthcare? If someone smokes, should they get a lung transplant or new heart? When the 'free market' runs such things the answer is the easy 'yes, if you can afford it', but if resources are very finite and 'we' are making decisions as a society.....

[hfojvt]

44. I wonder about the sister

She only lived to be 52 - why? And the brother in the picture looks like a bear of a man too. His weight, hate to say it, does not look healthy. And the bushy beard? Unless he is applying for the duck show, which seems to have died, that beard says "I am not working, and I am not looking for work."

Other missing things. If you look at the theme and say, essentially "society did not take care of this guy". Well, the first person who slammed him to the ground seemed to have been - the woman that he loved. Then what about his good friend? How much help did he get from his old friend who was much more "successful"?

The most excellent book "If I had one wish" Tells the story of a "wanderer" who says "your world is not kind to strangers" and the book's protagonist realizes "Kind to strangers? Heck, we are not even kind to the people we love."

[closeupready]

53. Lots of stuff this post made me think about ...

I only recently started Facebooking - mostly classmates from back home, the Midwestern village where I was born and raised - I friended a bunch and then unfriended the ones who'd post stuff like "having a chicken sandwich at Chik-fil-a , yum!" or "Save Duck Dynasty! Save morality!" or shit like that.

But more topically, yes, I also wonder how did Kristof's shilling for right-wing, 1% interests help contribute to his friend's demise? Certainly, even in the worst case assessment, it wouldn't be even a ripple on the water, but still, if he realizes that lack of empathy has helped get us to where we are today, then one can hope that Kristof re-examines his career and what he's been promoting and changes his ways.

Thanks for the book rec - I'll put it on my wish list.

[hfojvt]

61. about the book

it is perhaps at the 6th or 7th grade level (I read it as an adult, partly because I owned a bookstore). But that just makes it a very easy read, and it is still well worth it.

The movie they made of it though, sounds like a travesty, unfortunately.

And yeah, many of my old classmates are rightwing, and we never really were friends anyway, but I still stay with them on FB. I've turned down some friend requests though. I see the name, and I am like "well, maybe if it came with an apology".

[hfojvt]

56. that was well said

Although there might be a tipping point where recognizing that he massively compounded his problems is greater than sympathy.

Maybe a long distance running analogy would help. Once in college I was jogging a three mile loop. One with a couple of huge hills in it, especially at the end. One one run a guy from the dorm who had run cross country was running with me, and I said to my roommate after the run - I never would have made it up the hill without him beside me, running with me.

It's easy to give up when you are running alone, and too often other people are just running by, intent on their own race, or content to just wag their fingers at the people who gave up. Instead of picking them up and running with them.

[ND-Dem]

58. that's also a good analogy. we're discouraged from running with others today; might drag us

down. in fact, the whole social dynamic is moving in the opposite direction, and it's by design.

[azmom]

63. The thing is,

If you get dealt stupendous shit, Sometimes all you have is shitty options to choose from.

[ND-Dem]

66. +100. and if you live in a world of shit, you're liable to be depressed, disbelieve in the

possibility of escape (particularly if you're beat down a few times, I believe there were rat experiments to that effect), and liable to grasp at small comforts rather than 'middle class' 'self-discipline'.

Not that the rich got rich through self-discipline anyway.

[99Forever]

74. What you and the other person I am conversing with in this thread fail...

... to recognize, is not everyone has the same capacity to "never give up" as that other one so condescendingly puts it. I'm aware that some things victims do might indeed cause their problems to snowball, that doesn't change the reality that they are STILL victims. Not having or being able to attain decent, living wage employment is the start of that snowball for MILLIONS of Americans and neither of the major political parties give one shit about solving that. Lip service and false promises is all we get.

Some of us can keep fighting longer and better than others, that's a given. Personally, I go back to work tomorrow after having 2 major abdominal surgeries in 2 months. But I'm lucky, I have a job to go back to, one I found after 4 years of no work, no interviews, no offers. If I hadn't been lucky enough to find this job (at age 60, mind you) it likely would have spelt the end of my ability to "keep on tryin', never give up."

So, I'll always speak up for the real victims in this nation, EVEN if they could have done things better. I despise victim blamers and their effing sanctimonious, self-promoting claptrap "advise."

[AtheistCrusader]

79. "fail...... to recognize"

"is not everyone has the same capacity to "never give up" as that other one so condescendingly puts it."

You may have misread my post.
If I may add emphasis:

"I have a great deal of sympathy for Kevin Green, but I can also see some areas where he massively compounded his problems. It's not wrong to recognize that. You might see it as victim blaming, but in this case, without being judgmental about it, without affixing blame to the origins of his problems, I disagree with the characterization."

I said 'recognize', not affix blame. I have no interest in beating up people like Kevin Green. There exist people who have opportunities, that for whatever reason, do not take them, and do not 'make it'. The characterization of him, in that article, is not like that at all. He had a distinct lack of opportunity. Unfortunately, he also compounded his problems with some overt, in retrospect, bad, decisions. But I never once overlook his starting place, and conditions that may have influenced his decision making process.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/aug/29/poverty-mental-capacity-complex-tasks

But being that the universe is indeterminate, and we have free will, philosophically we do own at least the delta of our choices between that maybe awesome, or maybe not awesome starting point, and the outcome of our choices. We have to, or our lives are meaningless.

But for the actual assignation of blame, of vitriol, of putting the onus on the party responsible for that starting place? I'm right there with you. Mr. Green was the victim of profit-motivated destruction of opportunity.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

77. It is a wonder most of us dont drive off a cliff or act out in very violent ways...

The rich live lives none of us can imagine; privilege, freedom, and if they want they can have almost complete freedom from worry, stress, etc.

What I mean by that is the only worry or stress a rich person has, unless it is a medical condition, is one of their own making. The rest of us dont have to invent problems to keep us up nights or to slowly destroy our body and soul.

We are told over and over and over and over and over that money isnt everything, by the people who have ALL the money.


Someone with next to nothing often just gives up, who can blame them.

We are being told everyday that some of us simply dont deserve food or shelter or healthcare. That there are limited resources and we best be on our game or we will be deemed unworthy.

Want rights on the job? A decent wage?

Fuck you, I am a republican business owner and I want you to work for next to nothing, I want you to work till you drop then I will hire the guy in line to take your place.

As a republican business man, you see, I am pissed that I cant own people, so I will do the next best thing and that is force people to work for almost nothing, in the most unsafe and unhealthy working conditions.

Paid vacation? Paid sick leave?

FUCK YOU, why should I if none of my competitors are doing it?

[KamaAina]

82. Aargh.

Blaming the victim. How very Republican of you.

And it's "If I hadn't have lost a buttload of weight...".

[Blue_Tires]

50. +1

[ND-Dem]

3. "I have trouble diagnosing just what went wrong in that odyssey from sleek distance runner

to his death at 54, but the lack of good jobs was central to it."

[hfojvt]

47. I have trouble with my own life though

I am about the same age as Obama. Clearly he did some things right to end up as President, and I did some things wrong to end up as an unmarried part-time janitor. I didn't run cross country though. Instead I was class valedictorian.

Sometimes, though, we look at the glorious past and think "good jobs were plentiful" in the 1960s and 1970s.

I don't think that is true. And what about the 1940s?

One of the most recent people I put in my database was Mark Kline, born 1918 and died 1993. He was a WWII vet. His wife was born in 1919 and died in 2011. Decently long lives. Did they have better paying jobs? In the 1940 census, Mark was living with his inlaws, had a high school education and was employed as a "carpenter's helper". His last workweek was 50 hours and his annual income for 34 weeks of work was $150. His father in law was working at a steel mill making $1,500 for a 40 hour week.

The inflation calculator tells me that $1,500 in 1940 is the same as $25,364.57 today. Not that good of pay, but my dad's dad was only making $1,250 at his factory job in Wisconsin. Dad's dad lived to be 80, in spite of his smoking, and the steel mill worker lived to be 71. Lack of good jobs didn't kill them young.

[ND-Dem]

48. Sorry, I'm confused as to your meaning.

"Lack of good jobs didn't kill them young."

you mean that dying at 80 and 71 is young?

or you mean they had bad jobs but lived a good amount of time?

"His last workweek was 50 hours and his annual income for 34 weeks of work was $150"

as I read this, he made $150 total for 34 weeks of work at about 50 hours a week. Or about $2,536.46 in 2014 dollars. I don't find that credible.

[hfojvt]

69. $150 is shockingly low

but that's what somebody reported to the census. 50 hours, though, was just his most recent work week, not necessarily what he worked for all 34 weeks.

Well, Kristoff's friend died young, supposedly because he didn't have a good job.

Those other people had worse jobs, and did NOT die young.

Again, though, to the notion that everybody had good union jobs in the glorious industrial past - like 1970. In 1970, 40% of households had less than $6,110 in income, which is $37,278 in today's money. Whereas in 2007 (the most recent year for which I have data, but which would cover most of my lfe - me being about the same age as Christoff)) 40% of the country made less than $52,266. Significantly more money than in 1970 - 40% more.

[ND-Dem]

72. "what somebody reported to the census" doesn't mean much. could be a mis-copy by the surveyor or

the computer (if scanned and transferred). Translate $150 into 34 weeks you get $4 a day (.50 cents a day for an 8 hour day) . Translate 150 into 50 hours (supposedly a random weeks' work) you get $3 an hour.

kristoff's friend didn't have a job at all.

1) Inflation statistics aren't directly comparable for several reasons; e.g. to get today's 'good jobs' you need a college education, the cost of which has inflated way above the general cost of living since the 70s.

2) I'd like a link to the statistics you're looking at; another pitfall in comparing household income is the issue of women in the workforce and the rise of two income households, which is what's been holding up US household income since the 80s.

[hfojvt]

73. I don't have a link

it's data that I saved to a file a number of years ago. I might have saved a link too, but often links that are more than 3 years old don't work any more anyway. So I didn't - just the data.

Again though, Kristoff's friend didn't have a job, but unemployment (and labor force participation) were generally higher than ever throughout the 1990s and most of 2000s too. At least as good as the 1970s and 1980s.

Most of the people in the bottom 40% of the nation's household income, are NOT working the GOOD jobs. Many, like Kristoff, want to claim that back in the day, there used to be better jobs in the USA. His friend's dad, he mentions, had a good-paying union job, unlike his sons.

Yet, in 1970, 40% of households were making less than $37,000 and in 2007, 40% were making less than $52,000. Which, to me, makes 2007 look a fair amount better than 1970. Now some of that certainly IS because of two income households which were less common in 1970, and two income households have higher expenses than one income households, generally. But regardless of that $52,000 is still a fair amount more than $37,000, especially if you look at technology. NO amount of money in 1970 would get you a DVD or high speed internet.

[PatSeg]

4. Sadly it is such an immediate response

to find a way to blame the poor or the sick or the homeless for their blight. It could be fear that it could happen to them or guilt that their lives are better or in many cases, just a total lack of compassion for other people. If hardship visits such people, they are quick to blame the system or society, but ironically do not take the responsibility that they believe others should.

If it happens to someone else, it is that person's fault, when it happens to THEM, they are the victims.

[Lex]

42. Exactly so.

It is sickening the way people are so certain it wouldn't have happened to them this way. Keep believing that people, but it's not so.

[PatSeg]

86. I've always considered lack of compassion or understanding

tempting fate.

[SunSeeker]

5. K & R

[mountain grammy]

6. " Those who would judge you don’t have a clue.

They could use a dose of your own empathy." The last line of a heartbreaking story, America's story.

[daleanime]

8. K&R....

[erronis]

9. +1: A beautiful tribute. Thank you Mr. Kristoff

[daredtowork]

11. My father died of a heart attack at 50

He had just been laid off after having spent his entire life in the multiple part-time job adjunct system. In the latter part of his life he had tried to make a stable life for our family at a school that gave him "almost" full time, though just short of enough hours for full time benefits. When that school was sold to a religious group, the thought of having to job hunt again at 50, from the perspective of a rural area, was too much for him.

I think the American (under)employment system kills a lot of people outright kills a lot of people. I regard it as a form of torture on American soil. I've stated so in other posts and comments in regard to welfare and poverty: the American people have no right to play Judge Judy about human rights and human dignity in other countries when we're willing to look the other way and let people be tortured by omission to access to a livelihood right here on American soil.

One thing I've noticed in troll comments around the Internet is that "no one was ever killed" by this and that policy. I would like to see a some nonprofit projects to specifically call them on that. Morbid as it may seem, I think we need more Death Reports about people whose lives are being cut short by poverty: by malnutrition, by disability that was untreated or exacerbated, by misdiagnosis, by suicide.

While folks in Silicon Valley are dreaming their exquisite Transhumanist Immortality Dreams, how many people in poverty had their lives extinguished years early because they were denied even minimal resources for survival?

[daleanime]

14. Amen....

[Skittles]

26. very sorry daredtowork

your dad sounded like someone who really worked hard

I too lost my dad when he was 50.....we don't know at the time just how young that truly is

[daredtowork]

27. Yes, that seems younger every year! :O nt

[chervilant]

29. You will likely count me among those threatened with death by the

under-employment system. I was wrongfully terminated the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, by an arrogant young (new) manager who told me "we're going in a different direction." I think I got canned because I addressed the virulent racism to which I was constantly exposed.

I am 59, and I cannot find a job for which I am not over-qualified and/or over-educated. I have only gotten two interviews, and they just didn't "feel" good. The people who interviewed me are young enough to be my children.

I have my Kevorkian solution at the ready. I will run out of unemployment benefits sometime in March. I sure do hope I get a job.

[daredtowork]

41. Amazing how they always schedule the bad news right at holidays

Managers and committees always make it convenient for themselves and don't think about the psychological impact on the person they are selling down river.

It drives me crazy when people say "why didn't you address..." racism/sexism/agism and other forms of discrimination. Of course people above you in the hierarchy have "alternative ways" to express their discrimination in retaliation and fire you. They can simply say your attitude makes them uncomfortable. I've seen "pushback" as a checkbox on evaluation forms, neither as a positive as a negative: the manager could check that and represent your overt "pushback" as a negative.

Many older people are in despair for exactly the reasons you mention and dread the interview process because they will be facing people half their age who will be judging them. Those people either project nervousness about having to manage someone older than them or project rudeness about having an older person under their power. It doesn't feel right indeed.

The unemployment system/safety net doesn't account for this well. That's why I think the SSI/SSDI process goes easier on older people. But there ought to be alternative safety nets there that appreciate the particular challenges of older job seekers and make sure they have the bridge resources to get by as they explore new possibilities. If you're healthy (and HAPPY!) you could be working 30 years more - but society needs to treat you right.

[chervilant]

45. Luckily, I was able to get home to Newton County

before the inevitable global economic crisis (we're seeing the inception of this crisis, even as various pols and financial "gurus" try to reassure us that the economy is "recovering&quot . I am surrounded by a beautiful and invigorating ecosystem, with a significant creek running behind my house. I am a mile from the beautiful Buffalo River.

I have my bio-intensive garden ready for planting, with a significant strawberry patch already settled in one corner. I have two black walnut trees in my yard, and access to both hickory nuts and pecans.

I am learning to blacksmith from some of the most amazing artists, including internationally recognized Bob Patrick. I am learning wood carving from a group of amazing woodcarvers, including Harold Enlow, Ron Wells, and Sam Alexander. I have FINALLY learned knitting, and am currently making my first pair of socks.

So, I AM healthy and happy--just unemployed. And, apparently, unemployable.

[daredtowork]

46. If you own your own home

And have some savings and some form of minimal investment income to live on, you might try some ebay business.

[chervilant]

75. I am renting.

I used most of my retirement to survive the last six years while I went through an accelerated teacher certificate program. I am a MATH teacher, and cannot get a job teaching!

I am about to resume selling on eBay, and this has brought me in a fair amount in the past.

Thanks for your kind posts.

[daredtowork]

85. At least you are not an ENGLISH teacher :D

If you have a teaching certificate in math, I think the worm will turn for you. Hang in there!

[closeupready]

59. Sad to hear this, chervilant, but glad that you are healthy and happy for now.

I hope you find a job or some other means of providing a living for yourself.

[chervilant]

76. Thanks so much!

I am not giving up just yet. But, I will not be homeless. I'll take matters into my own hands before I'll live on the streets.

[ND-Dem]

55. best wishes to you. i hope something comes through. certainly there must be an option other

than the Kevorkian solution, especially if you have family.

[secondvariety]

12. This could happen to anyone.

Sad state of affairs...

[kpete]

24. exactly

[hunter]

15. Wow.

Some of my schoolmates are beginning to check out like that.

[The Green Manalishi]

18. Some of mine, too

[Tace]

23. Same Here

: (

[daredtowork]

16. Child Support

I noticed at a County Supervisors meeting on Social Services in my area that a couple of the programs had to do with helping men get right with their child support payments at the same time as getting back into work. It struck me that while these men were homeless (General Assistance welfare is only 3 months out of the year if you're not disabled here, and it's a LOAN - more money to pay back on top of child support), their children still weren't getting any money.

I'm not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but years ago she did do one thing right - she tried to introduce the "it takes a village to raise a child" concept back into American culture. Our national philosophy is almost predicated on radical individualism, which is in tension with responsibility for childcare. With the erratic nature of employment in this country - especially with "McJobs for the 99%" - there is too much pressure on the nuclear family. At every turn there is a "you broke it you bought it" attempt to make people take care of families in ways that they cannot.

Hillary was right about "it takes a village": we should be giving women more choice about whether to become mothers (I suspect if a career were a more viable path, many would choose that path), and we shouldn't be screeching at men to be "sole providers" if they can't.

[ND-Dem]

67. isn't that perverse...the ethos of 'help' in the usa

[project_bluebook]

19. This is no longer the America I wish to live in

It is time for a revolution, our Arab spring.

[lostnfound]

28. Kristof is a frustration -- a talented writer constantly nudging his center-left readers rightward

A beautiful thoughtful article.

His written voice IS beautiful and a pleasure to read in its flow. I used to read him often but admittedly not recently. The flow of his thoughts are interesting but for some reason as a reader I often felt like I've been brought to the wrong destination, to some unreal place like a well-designed theatre stage or else dropped off by a taxi driver not in the shady park I had requested but in an ugly, abandoned, frightening industrial center parking lot.

Obviously he has been thinking about his friend in less judgmental ways. I hope it's the beginning of him delving further into inequality and its unnecessary effect on people who, mistakes or not, have been disqualified from the American dream. Kristof could be such a powerful force in a more productive direction if he relinquished a bit more of his "puer eternus" habits or Peter Pan wishful thinking.

Jung has a saying "show me where a man's biggest pain is today, and I will show you where his biggest growth will be tomorrow." I hope he dwells on the meaning of his friends life and loss, and it becomes a turning point for a little deeper, kinder and wiser Kristof.

[closeupready]

35. And yet, DU members DU have the audacity to state that they don't care about inequality.

Thus, by extension, they don't care that more people die, as a direct result.

[closeupready]

36. Oh, and as to the article, Kristof is a right-winger who helped usher in our Age of Inequality.

So he ought to turn the mirror on himself.

[ND-Dem]

60. that was one of my questions; couldn't he have done something to help his friend?

[deutsey]

64. He better get his Ayn Rand out, pronto!

Empathy can be fatal to his worldview.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. Can you cite what you are referring to? I am aware mostly of his writings about human trafficking

and other human rights abuses, Darfur and from Desmond Tutu's praise for his work. The 'right winger who helped usher in inequality' label does not really fit what I know about him. What do you have to tell me?

[closeupready]

81. This is not exhaustive, and I'm not prepared to really hash this out with you, but

take these two examples, which I drew from his wiki entry:

Nicholas Kristof argues that sweatshops are, if not a good thing, then defensible as a way for workers to improve their lives and for impoverished countries to transform themselves into industrial economies. In this argument, sweatshops are an unpleasant but necessary stage in industrial development. Kristof is critical of the way "well-meaning American university students regularly campaign against sweatshops", particularly the Anti-Sweatshop movement's strategy of encouraging consumer boycotts against sweatshop-produced imports. Kristof and WuDunn counter that the sweatshop model is a primary reason why Taiwan and South Korea—which accepted sweatshops as the price of development—are today modern countries with low rates of infant mortality and high levels of education, while India—which generally has resisted sweatshops—suffers from a high rate of infant mortality.[38]

and

In a 2011 New York Times op-ed, Kristof wrote that he is "not a fan" of teachers' unions[48] because he maintains that unions encourage teachers to accept low wages in return for job security (future seniority benefits, pensions, and protection from arbitrary dismissal). He feels that such protections have the effect of protecting bad teachers, who then have to be fired for cause – a time-consuming, drawn out process – rather than being subject to being summarily fired at will.[49] Instead, Kristof advocates that teachers give up these rights and protections in exchange for receiving much higher average starting salaries. He suggests that instead of the current figure of $39,000 for teacher starting salaries, entering teaching salaries start at $65,000, a figure which he believes will have the effect of attracting and retraining more talented individuals to the profession.

[SammyWinstonJack]

78. That empathy gap isn't just for the rich. Plenty among the 99% lack empathy toward those

they perceive too be moochers, getting handouts from the government and refusing to find employment.

I had neighbors who said that those who couldn't find employment weren't looking hard enough and were in fact just lazy.

Funny because both of them were recently unemployed for many months and had applied for benefits from the government.

Guess that was different.