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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo Chris Kyle didn't beat up Jesse "The Body" Ventura
As a former rasslin fan I found that hard to believe. Sure he was a bit long in the tooth when him and Kyle allegedly tussled but "The Body" was a former wrestler, bodybuilder, weightlifter, and Navy Seal.
atreides1
(16,079 posts)From a "hero" with honor and integrity(Kyle)!
When a man lies he murders some part of the world. These are the pale deaths men miscall their lives.
―Paul Gerhardt
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)But I never embraced the idea of a man in a bar attacking "The Body" and him wilting like a rotting flower.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Home
Local
Aug. 3: Juror describes how jury reached split decision in Jesse Ventura defamation trial
Article by: RANDY FURST , Star Tribune
Updated: September 4, 2014 - 4:56 PM
Key defense evidence may have shifted opinions the other way.
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Many of the jurors in the Jesse Ventura defamation case had not made up their minds when they entered the jury room. But within days they had formed two blocs, and by the fifth day they were unmovable, one juror told the Star Tribune.
When we sent [the judge] the first note saying we were deadlocked, we werent happy with the option, the juror said. At that point no one was going to change their opinion.
In the end, most did not believe the story that Ventura had been punched out in a Coronado, Calif., bar after making disparaging remarks about the United States and Navy SEALs, said the juror, who voted with the majority.
The juror, who asked not to be identified, recounted the events that led to the 8-2 vote to award $1.8 million to the former Minnesota governor. The decision confounded some legal observers who predicted that the former governor would most likely fail to convince a jury, because of high standards set by the U.S. Supreme Court in defamation cases.
Ironically, some of the most powerful evidence that the attorneys for author Chris Kyles estate presented may have backfired.
The three-week trial revolved around three pages in the bestseller, American Sniper, in which the author, the late Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, claimed he decked a man, later identified as Ventura, in a bar after he some incendiary remarks at a wake for a SEAL killed in Iraq.
Digesting testimony
After being sent off to deliberate the afternoon of July 22, jurors studied U.S. District Judge Richard Kyles instructions and reviewed the testimony, depositions and other documents.
It took me a couple of days to digest, the juror said in an interview on Friday. I remember a lot of people not leaning either way, going through the notes. A lot were undecided.
As divisions developed, the juror offered some insights into how the majority of jurors evaluated the evidence.
There were so many different accounts [of where the alleged fight occurred] when alcohol was involved, said the juror, who was interviewed on the condition that the juror's name not be published. The testimony was all over the place.
While uncomfortable summarizing the views of the two holdouts, the juror said the pair felt that Kyle did not know he was defaming Ventura in the sub-chapter about the fight. They believed the story [in the book], the juror said, given Jesses background and Kyles. It was everything, from [Venturas] conspiracy [theories] to his [Venturas] books, to his character.
The juror said that one of the most persuasive arguments in Venturas favor was a visual presentation, a checklist, offered by the Kyle defense showing what its 11 witnesses had seen or heard on Oct. 12, 2006, at McPs Irish Pub.
The purpose of the graphic was to show that all of their witnesses had seen or heard something that night, thus solidifying the claim that Kyles account was truthful.
It had the opposite affect on the juror. It was confusing that no one could see all the events, the juror said. It was hard to see that no one saw everything. Someone saw him punched, some saw him on the ground, but didnt see him punched, and others saw him getting up he said.
<snip>
That is why, the juror thinks, Kyle titled the sub chapter Punching out Scruff Face and did not use Venturas name in the book, preferring to keep it under wraps.
If it was true, I thought he would have used his name, the juror said. Kyle later said in media interviews that Scruff Face was Ventura.
Asked why the juror felt Venturas reputation had been harmed, the juror said, Anything negative in print that affects someone as high profile as Mr. Ventura, would hurt his reputation.
The juror pointed to the statements of individual defense witnesses who claimed they saw or heard about the fight or Venturas alleged disparaging remarks about SEALs. In questions elicited by the defense, the SEAL witnesses said that while they once respected Ventura, they now held a very negative opinion of him.
The juror said that was strong evidence that the story Kyle told had damaged Venturas reputation.
The juror described watching the reactions of Ventura and Taya Kyle, the widow of Chris Kyle, as they sat at the tables with their respective lawyers during the trial.
He was always sitting back in the chair, and looked around a lot more, the juror said. He seemed more confident. I think Taya was more humanized. She had a lot more to lose. She had a lot on her mind. She was stressed out.
Jurors had to decide the validity of the account, including the comments attributed to Ventura, that the United States was killing men, women and children and murdering in Iraq, that he hates America and that SEALS deserve to lose a few.
While the former governor has made outrageous statements in the past, the juror could not believe the former governor would talk like that at a wake for a fallen Navy SEAL. Said the juror, It might have been something along those lines or misinterpreted. It was hard for me to believe that you deserve to lose a few is a direct quote.
The juror also found it compelling that the photos of Ventura taken in the days after the alleged barroom incident showed no bruises.
Kyle, the juror pointed out, was over 6 feet tall, weighed 200 pounds and was in excellent condition, and the idea that he could punch Ventura and not leave a facial mark was difficult to grasp.
http://www.startribune.com/local/269697941.html
A witness checklist of the Michael Brown shooting shows the same thing, witnesses all over the place. You find same claims on one thing but different on others. I believe the Rashoman effect was at-play here though this one juror focused more on "deserve to lose a few" whether than a fight & based on witnesses something likely did happen but also factored in the lack of bruises & attributes you mention as well.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)He did have some of 'those moments' while in the Army... as a helicopter pilot he earned the bronze star.
But he doesn't much talk about what went into that.
IMO, when my brother tells war stories it's mostly to lift his sense of self, compared to his civilian life which has little glory, the stories return him to his high-water mark.
I've come to consider his doing it not so much swaggering bragging lies as it is sadly necessary self-soothing. Maybe Kyle had some of that, too.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I believe most folks have the common sense to tell when a person is embellishing and when he or she isn't. Few of us are absolute pillars of truth or repositories of lies. That being said it's hard to tell where the truth ends with Mr. Kyle.
I will leave it at that Mr. Kyle seems conflicted. When "we" crap all over his memory we are conveniently falling into a right wing trap.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)What outfit was your brother with?
Co. A/101st Aviation Bn., flew Hueys and Snakes.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)the 9th ID.
Welcome Home Brothers.
trumad
(41,692 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)which mentions the same things and more that article does. The focus appeared to be on the "lose a few" in how it relates to a damage to Ventura's reputation. The knockout and other things were factored in & considered swayed the jurors. The Rashoman effect clearly was in play with the differing versions & accounts, & claims but all of it points to Chris Kyle the one most likely full of shit in his description of the events.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I am willing to stipulate that Chris Kyle was a tough guy. However so was "The Body" and he was everything Kyle was plus a bodybuilder, wrestler and a weightlifter.
braddy
(3,585 posts)as a Scout sniper and become one.