My personal opinion about anti-Vaxxers.

[MohRokTah]

I have no problem whatsoever with somebody deciding they will not vaccinate their children.

Fine, you do not have to.

The consequences of such a choice need to be severe, however.

All children who are not vaccinated due to the choices of their parents need to be quarantined in their homes. They can never leave their homes. Failure to abide by the quarantine should result in immediate removal from the homes by Child Protective Services and immediate vaccination.

The only exception to this requirement will be those children who cannot be vaccinated due to medical necessity.

If you choose to be anti-social by refusing to vaccinate your children, you MUST suffer the consequences and be forced to remain anti-social.

End of discussion.

[RandySF]

1. We need to repeal the waiver in California.

No vaccine, no public school attendance.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. That's pretty harsh, though I sure understand where you're coming from.

Hopefully we don't need to resort to such tactics.

As a result of the measles outbreak out here in CA, more parents are getting their children vaccinated. The levels aren't where they should be, but they are better.

[MohRokTah]

6. Where disease is concerned, anti-social behavior requires enforced anti-social living.

If you cannot abide by the needs of society, you must be removed from society.

[msongs]

3. the most dangerous part of vaccinations is probably the drive to the doctor nt

[Thinkingabout]

9. Yes, agreed

[onehandle]

4. Sound like a GOPNRAteahadist's paradise.

They would do it on the taxpayer's dime and never admit it's welfare.

[MohRokTah]

8. So you believe being anti-social should come with no consequences?

The single most anti-social behavior one can engage in is refusal to be vaccinated.

If you are that anti-social, you must be removed from society.

[brer cat]

5. When my daughter started school

in 1980, children without current vaccinations were not allowed in school. I think it is a prudent policy.

[Thinkingabout]

7. It is good for children to prevent as many illnesses as possible.

The kids doesn't have a choice. I did not always appreciate the vaccines when I was younger bit my mom made the right choice. She had experienced close family members dying as a result of measles.

[MohRokTah]

10. Adults have more complications from these diseases than chidren, too.

Anti-social behavior regarding disease requires removal from society.

[Thinkingabout]

11. Yes and a pregnant woman is exposed to one type of measles and should get the

Measles usually her baby is born with a birth defect such as hearing and sight. It would not be fair to an unborn child.

[MohRokTah]

12. And the vaccination is never 100%

Herd immunity protects us all. Anti-social anti-vaxxers break herd immunity. The only way to regain herd immunity is to isolate the anti-vaxxers from the rest of society.

[Thinkingabout]

13. True, very true, I would rather take a chance with the vaccine than without.

Do you find the spill against vaccines has been debunked several years but the p anti vac crowd still cling to false information. It is,almost like a religion to dome.

[NuclearDem]

14. Anti-vaxxers are murderers.

Their utterly reckless, selfish actions are killing people.

[closeupready]

23. I've come to believe that many of these come from Reddit boards.

Take, for example, the term 'woo' - when was the last time you recall hearing people actually say 'woo' in a serious conversation? A handful of socially autistic people sure, but normal people don't talk like that. It's only on this board that I've ever seen it used, and I've never ever heard it in conversation.

[closeupready]

30. Oh, yeah - I know a thing or two about the AMA, let me tell you. Lots of dirty tricks

in their history. Not a surprise to me at all.

[geek tragedy]

33. Hope you got a chance to say goodbye to LibraryGirl.

Don't worry though, they'll be back and you can resume your colloquoy on vaccinations.

[geek tragedy]

32. Do you hear people talk about how vaccines are a corporate conspiracy

that actually kill people instead of protecting them in your social circles?

[GoneFishin]

15. Or we could put them in barbed wire encircled camps with armed guards in towers overlooking them.

While we're at it can we also include people who text while driving? They are dangerous as hell.

.... Oh yeah, and anyone whose toddler is seen handling one of their firearms.

[treestar]

16. Yes, they are willfully exposing their own children

and others to a disease that could be prevented in all.

[Raine1967]

17. I have a problem with it: they are not abiding by a social construct.

I have a big problem with it, especially when it is becoming a health hazard. Scroll down and look at this comic piece.

This should not be about suffering consequences, it should be about law. The only ones that really suffer are children who don;t know any better.

[melman]

18. You have no problem with it but they should be punished harshly

Makes sense.

[MohRokTah]

20. Everybody is free to become a hermit

One can be so anti-social as to refuse vaccination, so long as they remain completely removed from all society.

[MohRokTah]

21. IF you are so anti-social as to refuse vaccination.

You MUST be required to go all the way and be completely removed from society.

[closeupready]

24. This thread went well, huh, Moh?

lol

[MohRokTah]

26. It showed who the anti-vaxxers were.

And all of them should be quarantined.

[Kalidurga]

28. Yep that's why I got polio

Oh wait I didn't cuz vaccines.

[KitSileya]

29. It is those with a compromised immune system that vaccinations protect.

That protection can be either direct, as in getting the vaccine themselves, or indirect, by having as many as possible get the vaccine if they cannot get it themselves. Your silly "body parts of diseased animals and even aborted fetuses" is just a stupid scare tactic, and it is dangerous as well. You are skirting very close to social darwinism, where you say that those who are strong shouldn't get vaccinated because they don't need it, and those who are weak, are to blame themselves (apparently, they didn't eat the right diet, per other posts of yours.) Ask all the children who got polio whether they would have wanted the vaccine regardless of what it was made of.

The woo is strong in you, and unfortunately, it'll be innocent victims like children and those who cannot get vaccinated, like my brother, who will pay the penalty, not those who really deserve it, the ones who advocate against vaccines.

[proverbialwisdom]

31. FYI: Check it out considering the differences in immunization guidelines over geography and time.

The suggestion this is an 'all or nothing' binary choice for most people is a strawman argument.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5531192

POST 70.

Number of Mandatory Vaccines and Under 5 Mortality Rates for Top 30 Countries
CHART SOURCE: @JBHandleyjr

2014 CDC schedule (does not transfer): http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/child-adolescent.html

POST 138: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025939407

CHART SOURCE: http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2013/07/welcome-ernest-hancock-listeners.html
Compiled DEC 2010, published JULY 2013.

Starts at birth. Omits (?)new pregnancy recommendations: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/rec-vac/pregnant.html .

http://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Pages/Scheduler.aspx

[img][/img]

Vaccine Schedule

ECDC collects information on vaccination schedules in the EU/EEA countries with the help of ECDC national focal points. This tool allows for comparison of shedules between two countries and diseases for all or a selection of countries.

<>

More: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026129350

[GoneFishin]

34. Holy shit. The doses recommended went from 24 to 71, increased by 45 additional doses.

It's pretty clear that a huge pile of (potentially lost) profits are the elephant in the room.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

36. Actually, most of the info cited comes

from anti-science sites that still try to link autism and vaccinations and support that piece of shit Andrew Wakefield (ya know, the doctor who published a false study on vaccines and autism so he could make money off of his own vaccine).

[GoneFishin]

37. If this data is factually wrong tell me precisely how. I don't care what site the information

comes from if the information is true.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

43. Flu vaccines have always been recommended. Even in 1983.

When it lists the modern schedule, it includes EVERY instance of the flu vaccine (once a year), which is omitted on the 1983 schedule. Also, we now have vaccines against HPV, Hepatitis, chicken pox, etc that we DIDN'T have in 1983, so of course those have been added.

The list is meant to be scary. "OOooooh, look at all this extra stuff! Something's going on here". The site it comes from is an anti-vax site. That right there should say enough. To be anti-vax, you must ignore factual data and side with preposterous assumptions, disproven studies, conspiracy theories, and 100% bullshit.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

35. So you post a list of vaccination schedules?

Keeping in mind that the flu vaccine takes up most of that list, as it's RECOMMENDED every year.

I don't see any point here, aside from you're too daft to understand that vaccinations save lives. Also, posting info from a website that STILL tries to make the claim that vaccines and autism are related (pro-tip: they're not) makes your argument null and void.

Take your anti-science screed elsewhere. Preferably far away from civilized society.

[etherealtruth]

38. Amen!!!! (borrowing a word from religion)

[proverbialwisdom]

48. No, in fact, the flu shot is MANDATED in many places (eg. NJ, NYC) for preschool enrollment.

Compliance or exemption required. Top google hit on each, here:

NJ: http://www.nursezone.com/nursing-news-events/more-news/New-Jersey-Becomes-First-State-to-Make-Flu-Shots-Mandatory_27930.aspx
NYC: http://www.healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/nycs-new-flu-mandate-12315

And, yes, vaccinations may save lives, but what I'd call unscientific is the willful blindness to 'risk/benefit profiles' exhibited in your posts.

Read yet about GSK's Infanrix used in Italy? Italian Court of Justice Nicola Di Leo ordered that GlaxoSmithKline's confidential report to the Regulatory Authority be made public. See: http://autismoevaccini.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/vaccin-dc3a9cc3a8s.pdf You might've missed the recently published analyses by Puliyel: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=238436

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24004825#cm24004825_8656

Hum Vaccin Immunother. 2014 Jan;10(1):129-37. doi: 10.4161/hv.26269. Epub 2013 Sep 4.
Combined hexavalent diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis-hepatitis B-inactivated poliovirus-Haemophilus influenzae type B vaccine; Infanrix™ hexa: twelve years of experience in Italy.

COMMENT BY Jacob Puliyel MD MRCP M Phil, 2015 Jan 13 06:40 a.m.
REPOSTED: https://pubpeer.com/publications/CADD224D6402C4D429C45F7085AACC

MORE:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/01/gsks-69-infanrix-deaths-are-not-explicable-as-coincidence.html
http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/01/puliyel-further-challenges-study-authors-baldo-et-al-over-gsk-vaccine-deaths.html

The Italian parent who declines the 6-combo vaccine for their infant and instead chooses individual doses is an antivax nutjob or just practicing informed consent? And the parent who elects to follow the MUMPER STUDY protocol? (http://najms.net/wp-content/uploads/v06i03.pdf#page=34 ) Absolutely nothing anti-science about either.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

49. Everytime you post an age of autism link

you show you're not willing to look at anything scientifically. VACCINES DO NOT FUCKING CAUSE AUTISM! FACT. Quit posting bullshit from that bullshit site.

And Jacob Puliyel is a known anti-vaxxer. Why the fuck would anyone with half a brain listen to him?

[NickB79]

47. Oh noes! A long list of scary shots!

All those immunological challenges for my poor baby's system, how could she handle so much?

Oh look, she just ate a handful of garden dirt and exposed her immune system to a few thousand immunological challenges at once. How cute.

[MindPilot]

39. I like the cut of your hyperbole.

I come from the generation that went from watching our school chums get all messed up from polio to simply not having to think about it. There was no question; on regular occasions we filed out of our classrooms to line up for vaccinations.

I have a newspaper from late December, 1962 in which an article covers the news that San Diego County just finished its first full year with no new reported cases of polio. So yeah, vaccinations work.


I can see this setting up a situation where one's vaccination history is something else you have carry with you. Going to Comic-Con? In addition to your pass, you'll need a picture ID and current shot record. As much as I loathe the prospect of yet more intrusion into my personal life, people need to be compliant on the public health issues. So if some level of ostracizing and humiliation is necessary to do that, so be it.

No shirt? No shoes? No vax? No service.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

40. ..or they can go live in colonies like the Hutterites

They can remain largely separate from mainstream society and have their own schools and social gathering places.

[MiniMe]

41. Dumb question here

What happened to the small pox vaccine? Were we successful getting rid of the disease by vaccinating everybody? Somebody upthread posted the recommended vaccines now, and I don't see smallpox on the list, in fact, it wasn't on the list from 1983 either.

[MohRokTah]

42. The last reported case of smallpox happened in Somalia on October 26, 1977.

Although smallpox virus exists in laboratories in the United States and Russia, it is considered eradicated.

There was a case in 1978 where a person contracted smallpox in a medical laboratory in the UK. This was not considered a wild case of smallpox, however, but resulted in destruction of all stock of the virus except for the CDC in the US and a lab in Russia.

There were some vials of smallpox discovered in Bethesda MD in 2014.

[MiniMe]

44. Thanks. I was discussing vacs with some friends this weekend, and we were having a hard time coming

up with the vaccine that everybody had on their arm. And my cousin was saying that her daughter who is 8 never got that vaccine. Took me a while to come up with what it was. I remember traveling with my parents when I was in high school, we went somewhere in europe, I think Yugoslavia, and I had go get re-vaccinated to travel there. That would have been in 1974 or 1975. The 2nd time I got vaccinated, it never left a mark like the first time did. Strangely enough, I got mine on my leg when I was a baby, not the arm.

[MohRokTah]

45. I was vaccinated for smallpox as a child in the 60s.

I was vaccinated again in the Army in 1981.

[aikoaiko]

46. This is excellent Swiftian satire of the anti-anti-vaxxer crowd

You caricatured them perfectly. I'm not sure they will understand that you are mocking them.