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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 05:21 PM Jan 2015

Bias against the disabled is as American as apple pie

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-obrien-social-security-disability-insurance-20150122-story.html

On the first day of the 114th Congress, Republican lawmakers quickly lighted the fuse for a major battle over entitlements using an unlikely piece of leverage: the Social Security Disability Insurance program, which is expected to run out of money in late 2016....

The wording may be vague, but the intention is clear. And while many are right in surmising that it's a move to push an overhaul of Social Security retirement benefits, it also presents an opportunity for conservative lawmakers who have been calling for larger reforms in disability programs....

It's also critical that we appreciate the role these programs play in our postindustrial economy and our post-welfare-reform social safety net. But as we work to improve these programs, we must not let the rhetoric of fraud, abuse and “welfare queens” that accompanied the end of welfare as we know it in the 1990s frame the conversation.

Americans generally are skeptical of individuals who receive government benefits, biased to think that they are undeserving. It may be our unyielding belief in everyone's ability to bootstrap his or her way to success through hard work or just the way we esteem self-sufficiency. In the context of cash welfare, research shows that this bias leads us to assume all benefit recipients are lazy. In the context of disability — where benefits are predicated on the existence of a qualifying health condition — our skepticism toward recipients of government assistance may influence the way we evaluate their health.


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Bias against the disabled is as American as apple pie (Original Post) KamaAina Jan 2015 OP
There are the truly disabled who needs financial. There are also those who are Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #1
You post the same bullshit about SSDI thucythucy Jan 2015 #2
And I get replied with BS, you produce your facts, if you dont realize there is fraud it is not Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #3
You also seem to be unaware of regular checks daredtowork Jan 2015 #8
SSDI isn't given to substance abusers as 'disability'. SSI used to be, sometimes, but that was ND-Dem Jan 2015 #45
Have you ever worked in a prison system? Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #47
Read some of the cases below, we so not need thieves in SSDI. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #48
I read the first of your links and if it's representative, I've seen quite enough. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #59
Oh, there isn't any fraud, try reading the rest of the links before you draw your conclusions. As Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #60
you're not on the side of the disabled. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #61
HA, best laugh I have had this morning, you say I am not on the side of the disabled, I am the Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #64
I've posted the facts on this repeatedly. thucythucy Jan 2015 #65
Guess you missed the posts with the links, two times. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #68
Others have rebutted those links. thucythucy Jan 2015 #69
So you rebutt an official government link? Give your link which declares the information is wrong. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #70
That's not even coherent. thucythucy Jan 2015 #77
In your post #69 you said: Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #78
You posted a bunch of links thucythucy Jan 2015 #79
This will be my last post on this issue with you, I know there are disable people who need to be on Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #81
"This will be my last post on this issue...." thucythucy Jan 2015 #82
So throw money to those that catch the fraud Omaha Steve Jan 2015 #4
Don't cry when there is not funds to take care of the needy after the greedy has stolen the funds. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #5
I was totally serious about hiring more investigators to catch fraud Omaha Steve Jan 2015 #6
It is being investigated, google Eric Conn, he is a SSDI attorney specified in disability claims. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #7
Call the FBI daredtowork Jan 2015 #10
He has been investigated but there are probably more Eric Conns out there. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #12
You are just projecting now daredtowork Jan 2015 #15
If you do not agree there may be more then you are projecting also. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #16
Which is better? daredtowork Jan 2015 #19
Do you understand how SSDI is funded? It is funded to 2016. What do you think is going happen when Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #20
There You Go Again daredtowork Jan 2015 #24
Why are you resorting to using FOX and Rove tactics, it would more beneficial for the true facts Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #32
Your posts are speaking for themselves. nt daredtowork Jan 2015 #36
I can stand behind my post, can you stand behind yours. I think I am beginning to understand the Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #38
I stand behind mine and underline them.nt daredtowork Jan 2015 #39
Still did not see your proof I posted what you said, why, because I did not post Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #56
Whatever. nt daredtowork Jan 2015 #57
I've little doubt you're a rather clever individual... LanternWaste Jan 2015 #71
Clever? I am still waiting for their links where they provide the counter proof. I have given Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #75
Fraud investigations create uber stress on the poor daredtowork Jan 2015 #9
Well said Omaha Steve Jan 2015 #11
This is where the tragedy occurs, there are truly disabled people who does need the help and I Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #13
You are trying to create the tragedy daredtowork Jan 2015 #17
In lieu of mincome daredtowork Jan 2015 #14
Costs more to investigate the minor amounts of fraud than the return. Most people who apply ND-Dem Jan 2015 #46
She's referring to things she learned from teevee mentalsolstice Jan 2015 #49
You are so right about this. thucythucy Jan 2015 #66
I wish Washington would concern itself less with small-time frauds. Orsino Jan 2015 #72
how many people do you know that recovered from long term dementia? CreekDog Jan 2015 #18
Yes it was nonsense, I don't recall saying it was long term dementia, I said he claimed to have Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #22
Admitting fraud exists in the world daredtowork Jan 2015 #27
You can not rewrite what I have posted to sound like your GOP talking points. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #29
I'm not rewriting what you have said daredtowork Jan 2015 #31
Did you post the following: Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #33
You are repeatedly saying SSI/SSDI money is being wasted on fraud daredtowork Jan 2015 #35
I have said SSDI is stolen by those who are not disabled, fraudulent claims and yes I did Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #37
Congratulations for cherry picking examples of fraud daredtowork Jan 2015 #40
You learn well, FOX is a good teacher for those who wants to listen to their lies. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #41
You can click on my sig for the source of my username daredtowork Jan 2015 #42
Show me where I posted the things you say, I need proof. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #43
You go do your own work. daredtowork Jan 2015 #44
You can give proof of what you say because I did not say the garbage you said. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #50
Your posts are what you said. nt daredtowork Jan 2015 #51
You are right, my post are what I said but not what you posted on my behalf, Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #52
Whatever. nt daredtowork Jan 2015 #54
Fraud? DesertDawg Jan 2015 #73
Word. daredtowork Jan 2015 #76
We should stop funding state motor vehicle departments. hunter Jan 2015 #30
Link, please? KamaAina Jan 2015 #55
Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the bias against the disabled REP Jan 2015 #58
For every person I know that games the system, Ykcutnek Jan 2015 #21
Thank you for supporting those in need daredtowork Jan 2015 #25
+1,000 CountAllVotes Jan 2015 #28
Medicare? daredtowork Jan 2015 #34
The people that are doing this CountAllVotes Jan 2015 #62
They will definitely soon learn a lesson daredtowork Jan 2015 #63
What's the old saying? Solly Mack Jan 2015 #23
Yep. nt daredtowork Jan 2015 #26
And threads about the disabled usually sink like the Titanic here @ DU mentalsolstice Jan 2015 #53
Excellent post. thucythucy Jan 2015 #67
Or under Rand Paul's rug KamaAina Jan 2015 #74
Yep, about Rand mentalsolstice Jan 2015 #80
Just wanted to thank you again for your posts thucythucy Jan 2015 #83
We call it "ableism". KamaAina Jan 2015 #84

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
1. There are the truly disabled who needs financial. There are also those who are
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 05:48 PM
Jan 2015

Committing fraud. Like the one who pulled off being blind, he got his SSDI started and "failed" to notify SSA he was now able to drive and look at a computer screen all day. Or the one who convinced them he had early onset dementia and was unable to work, drive or care for himself. He also forgot to notify SSA he was not suffering from dementia any longer. Attorney Eric Conn has been successful in getting many on SSDI with the help of a "special" judge who awarded the claims.

These are stealing from the SSDI fund, money which should be going to deserving people. Those who are substance abusers are able to be in SSDI.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
2. You post the same bullshit about SSDI
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:27 PM
Jan 2015

every time the subject comes up, and every time you get educated that what you're posting, is, indeed, BS.

So, once again, SSDI is not given to people purely because they are "substance abusers." In fact, they are specifically written OUT of disability rights legislation. That doesn't mean that someone with a disability can't also be a substance abuser, but SSDI is NOT given to substance abusers because of substance abuse per se.

I don't like people committing fraud. I also don't like people who spread bullshit lies on what is supposed to be a progressive forum.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
3. And I get replied with BS, you produce your facts, if you dont realize there is fraud it is not
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:31 PM
Jan 2015

My problem. If you are interested in the truly disabled to continue to receive funds then just maybe getting the fraud out may allow the funds to go to those in need instead of those in greed.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
8. You also seem to be unaware of regular checks
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:08 PM
Jan 2015

That Social Security does every 3(?) years to see if your situation has changed. They are quite stressful for people who spent years hanging on by their fingernails to prove they were disabled in the first place.

Govt. "Ticket to Work" programs have to offer exemption from these evaluations as an incentive because people would otherwise be afraid if disqualifying from SSI but then failing at tge attempt to work.

Agree with the comment above: you arw here spreading wingnut propaganda to defund support for the disabled.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
45. SSDI isn't given to substance abusers as 'disability'. SSI used to be, sometimes, but that was
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 04:51 PM
Jan 2015

written out too.

as usual, you're full of BS and won't back off no matter how many times you're corrected and linked to authoritative information.

almost like you want to spread the republican line on this issue.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
59. I read the first of your links and if it's representative, I've seen quite enough.
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 01:59 AM
Jan 2015

The person in question was in the US army and faked some kind of injury to the Veterans Administration. He got over $500K from the VA. At some point he also applied for Social Security Disability and collected about $7K.

At his regular disability review, he admitted he'd been lying about his condition.

On March 16, 2011, STANFORD presented to a VA physician for a continuing evaluation of his physical condition. During the evaluation STANFORD falsely represented that he required help from another person for feeding, bathing, and use of the toilet.

Additionally, on October 4, 2011, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, STANFORD presented himself before representatives of the SSA for a continuing disability review.

During the course of the review, STANFORD falsely represented that he could not dress, bathe, take medicine, prepare meals, do chores, shop, walk, stand, or lift objects over two pounds, without assistance from another person.

STANFORD subsequently admitted to these falsehoods and indicated that he exaggerated his conditions in connection with both reviews because if he had told the truth then his benefits would have been terminated.


At sentencing, the court ordered STANFORD to repay the stolen funds as restitution. STANFORD’s future VA benefits have been garnished.

Investigation of this case was conducted by the Department of Veterans Affairs Office of the Inspector General, and the Social Security Administration Office of the Inspector General.


So lets see: he collected benefits from SSA less than a year before they caught him. The main defraudee was the VA, not SSA. AND NONE OF IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE, YOUR ORIGINAL BULLSHIT CLAIM.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
60. Oh, there isn't any fraud, try reading the rest of the links before you draw your conclusions. As
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 11:44 AM
Jan 2015

I never stated ALL CASES WAS ONLY CASES OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE maybe you need to know all the facts before you jump in and say there are not cases where substance abuse was the disability. In fact I stated there was a case of a guy claiming to be blind and could not work or drive, did I say this person claimed substance abuse as his disability? You can stay on the side of those make fraudulent claims which takes away the truly disabled or you can be on the side of the truly disabled.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
64. HA, best laugh I have had this morning, you say I am not on the side of the disabled, I am the
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 01:55 PM
Jan 2015

one who says those who commit fraud, who is not disabled, who steals money intended for the disabled is not on the side of the disabled. I would say you who apparently thinks it is okay for the fund to be depleted by fraud is surely not on the side of the disabled.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
65. I've posted the facts on this repeatedly.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:13 PM
Jan 2015

You just go into another thread and post the same discredited BS.

I've also asked you, repeatedly, if you know about fraud, why don't you report it?

You've never answered that.

The only "source" you've produced is an episode of "Judge Judy" you think you saw one time.

"Fraud" constitutes a tiny percentage of the money that is dispersed through SSI or SSDI. Many times more people get denied benefits who actually need it, than ever defraud the system.

Read "Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt" by Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco. They report cases of "truly disabled" people who wait YEARS for benefits. Read Fred Pelka's encyclopedia of the disability rights movement, and his entries on SSI and SSDI and the Social Security Reform Act.

You've had response after response calling you on your BS, yet you still go on about this massive "fraud" you claim to know about.

Again: if you know people defrauding the system, why don't you turn them in?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
70. So you rebutt an official government link? Give your link which declares the information is wrong.
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:13 PM
Jan 2015

Guess the rebuttals did not provide a link proving my links wrong. One of "rebuttals" was not correct in me saying the first link was for substance abuse, poster never posted where I had stated the one link read and I said it was substance abuse. BTW, the substance abuse case I knew personally.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
77. That's not even coherent.
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 04:38 PM
Jan 2015

I have no idea now what you're trying to say:

"...poster never posted where I had stated the one link read and I said it was substance abuse. BTW, the substance abuse case I knew personally."

That doesn't even make sense.

And I see you still won't answer this simple question: if you know people who are defrauding the system, why don't you turn them in?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
78. In your post #69 you said:
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 06:09 PM
Jan 2015

. Others have rebutted those links. Guess you missed all those rebuttals.

I posted:
So you rebut an official government link? Give your link which declares the information is wrong.
Guess the rebuttals did not provide a link proving my links wrong.

I am still waiting for the links where "Others have rebutted those links. Guess you missed those rebuttals."

Where is the proof of their rebuttals?

On the links I provided I do not have personal knowledge except for reading the links so I could not report these people was defrauding the system, ergo, it would be impossible for me to turn them in. I knew about the substance abuse person receiving SSDI, I just don't happen to agree these folks are disabled from working.

Give me the proof, the links from those rebutting the links I provided.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
79. You posted a bunch of links
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 08:34 PM
Jan 2015

(probably pasted from some right wing or libertarian website) showing isolated causes of fraud. So what?

No one is saying there is NO fraud. What we're saying (and multiple posters have pointed this out, here and in other threads) is that fraud is not so wide spread as to be causing any "crisis" in SSI or SSDI. The "crisis" has been entirely manufactured by the sleazy GOP tactic this OP was addressing, before you hijacked the thread with your usual BS.

In another OP you talk about how people with disabilities shouldn't need government programs, and I asked you, several times, what are the alternatives for people with severe disabilities. You never answered. And now, finally, after asking you several times over several threads, you FINALLY acknowledge that you don't actually know first hand of any fraud being committed, but only of the incidents cherry picked in the usual right wing/libertarian way to discredit all portions of the social safety net.

Read the responses to your BS on this thread. No one is buying your anti-disability crap. No one here believes in any widespread fraud in these programs--quite the opposite--that in fact there are people who SHOULD be getting benefits, but aren't, primarily because people like you keep harping on "fraud" and so the system is now so over-burdened with "safeguards" to prevent fraud that people who actually need the benefits have to wait months, years, sometimes forever, before they get the assistance they need.

I know LOTS of people with severe disabilities. I've been a part of the community for decades, long enough to know BS when I see it.

As for "the substance abuse person receiving SSDI" how do you know what their life is like? How do you know they're abusing "substances"? And more to the point, what have you done to help them, aside from trying to gut the safety net on which they depend?

You have no idea of the damage you and your ilk are doing. Real people's lives are at stake. Maybe you should get another hobby, and leave bashing SSI/SSDI and people with disabilities to the usual right wing jerks.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
81. This will be my last post on this issue with you, I know there are disable people who need to be on
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 08:50 PM
Jan 2015

SSDI, I do not have a problem with disabled people receiving benefits from SSDI, I do not think those defrauding the system claiming they have disabilities should be stealing from those who have disabilities. Let me say this again, truly disabled people should be able to the SSDI benefits, thieves using fraud claiming fake disabilities should not be taking the money from the SSDI fund which should be reserved for the truly disabled. I do not like a thief, I especially do not like a thief who steals from the disabled and I don't have respect for those who thinks it is okay for thieves to steal from the disabled. I realize the damage to SSDI by fraud is a low down person or persons. If you do not realize the damage you are doing in trying to okay the actions of thieves. Get on the side of the disable, dump the thieves. If you know BS when you see it, then you should know not right to see funds intended for people with disabilities to be stolen by the thieves. I deal with people with disabilities and all the more reason I will stand by their side to fight the fraud.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
82. "This will be my last post on this issue...."
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 12:06 AM
Jan 2015

Well, thank God for that.

And for the last time, no one is defending fraud. What we're objecting to is you coming into every discussion of how the GOP is screwing people with disabilities, and spewing the GOP talking point that the system is rife with fraud. You yourself now say you don't know anyone defrauding the system. People have posted links showing you that "fraud" constitutes less than one half of one percent of all the people on SSI/SSDI--and even that is arguable. Yet you persist in laying on the same fraud anecdotes.

One of the reasons so many children in this country are now trapped in poverty is because AFDC--started under President Roosevelt--was finally repealed after a decades long conservative propaganda war against poor people on the program. This included bogus anecdotes about "welfare queens" gaming the system, until a substantial portion of the population believed this crap. And the system was eventually "reformed" so that now millions of additional children are left in poverty.

They're trying to do the same thing now with SSI and SSDI, and you are either knowingly or unknowingly aiding and abetting them. Meanwhile, real people are suffering--people who SHOULD be receiving benefits but aren't, because we're so obsessed with "fraud" that it takes years for people to get the help they desperately need. As in this case, posted right here in DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026158394#post4

I am not trying "to okay the action of thieves"--that's you yet again putting words into people's mouths. I'm disputing your bullshit claim that fraud is why there is a "crisis" with SSI or SSDI.

The "crisis" has been and is being caused by sleazy Republican tactics, as laid out in this and other OPs.

I'm glad you're not going to post in response to this, because I'm tired of having to repeat myself.

Here's hoping you or your loved ones never need to get SSI or SSDI. If you do, you'll find out real fast how difficult it is "to game" the system.

Omaha Steve

(99,660 posts)
4. So throw money to those that catch the fraud
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:49 PM
Jan 2015

It sounds like it would more than pay for itself by your comments.

Do the same to the IRS like the old days.

OS



Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
5. Don't cry when there is not funds to take care of the needy after the greedy has stolen the funds.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:53 PM
Jan 2015

Let me put this plain and simple, I do not like a thief and dislike those who steal from the truly disabled just because they could pull off a scheme.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
7. It is being investigated, google Eric Conn, he is a SSDI attorney specified in disability claims.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 10:14 PM
Jan 2015

He has the doctors and in his pocket. It is wrong. I hope SSDI will get funded but with the GOP congress I don't know how long it will take. My heart goes out to the disabled, this isn't their fault.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
10. Call the FBI
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:36 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

If Eric Conn is a criminal, rat him out. Please do not use him as a pretext to defund support for the disabled on a forum for Democrats.

I call rightwing wolf in sheeps clothing.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
12. He has been investigated but there are probably more Eric Conns out there.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:50 PM
Jan 2015

A,couple of workers in the SSA was in on the reporting.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
15. You are just projecting now
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:07 AM
Jan 2015

And you are doing it at the expense of resources for the disabled, which are already extremely limited.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
16. If you do not agree there may be more then you are projecting also.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:11 AM
Jan 2015

I realize there is a limited fund to assist the disabled, I have posted many time we should help our disabled but fraud and abuse is not a disability.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
19. Which is better?
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:25 AM
Jan 2015

1) Make sure all the disabled are supported on livable benefits and accept the price is a few frauds may get through.

OR

2) Spend all money on detecting fraud and accept some disabled may get inadvertantly cut off as long as we catch all fraudsters?

Which answer makes you the Tea Party concern troll?

Why isn't MIRT all over this?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
20. Do you understand how SSDI is funded? It is funded to 2016. What do you think is going happen when
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:47 AM
Jan 2015

the funds are gone? I would like to see the fraud stopped.

Speaking of MIRT, we are not supposed to call others names but you might want to rethink your Tea Party concern troll. Pointing out fraud is not a reason for you to indicate I may be a TP troll.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
24. There You Go Again
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:35 AM
Jan 2015

The "crisis" in SSDI was created by Republicans holding the regular transfer of funds hostage. Again you are making a Republican talking point on a Democratic forum.

I'm not "calling names" - I'm calling you out for what you are. Apparently you've been getting away with it for a long time by your post count. Perhaps it's a carefully crafted cover. But Republican talking points are Republican talking points.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
32. Why are you resorting to using FOX and Rove tactics, it would more beneficial for the true facts
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jan 2015

than following their tactic. Call me whatever makes you happy, it is not going to change the facts. Also, FOX and Rove talking points are just what they are, no facts, just say what you want.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
38. I can stand behind my post, can you stand behind yours. I think I am beginning to understand the
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:42 PM
Jan 2015

problem.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
56. Still did not see your proof I posted what you said, why, because I did not post
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 07:58 PM
Jan 2015

What you said. When you get the proof post it.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
71. I've little doubt you're a rather clever individual...
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:36 PM
Jan 2015

I've little doubt you're a rather clever individual, but you are coming across as irrational and somewhat petulant when a point you make is then countered.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
75. Clever? I am still waiting for their links where they provide the counter proof. I have given
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jan 2015

the links, not from one source but from two, one being a government agency. Perhaps you should explain to the counter posters they are perhaps irrational and petulant as they post a counter especially when I have posted the links twice and they still have not posted a counter with proof of the links I have provided.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
9. Fraud investigations create uber stress on the poor
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:28 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:30 AM - Edit history (1)

While very little money is dispersed for General Assistance Welfare, the State spends tons of money on investigating fraud. These investigations (welfare recipients are told) include converstions with neighbors as well as general surveillance.

I am currently the target of a Fraud Investigator. What supposedly triggered it was I have a small pension on a job I held a few months over 15 years ago. I suspect the waves I've been making over how impossible the Oakland General Assistance situation is, how it contributes to unrest there, and the fact I've been calling out specific politicians who blew my complaint off might have had something to do with it.

Anyway, even if you haven't done anything wrong (I didn't know about this pension), being surveilled is an extrenely nerve-wracking experience. I don't know how the findings will affect my situation. The stress has exacerbated my physical symptoms in ways that ultimately cost the taxoayer money.

It's easy to say "investigate fraud", but most fraud is committed in the administration of funds, while most sh*t rolls down hill, placing stress on people who can least deal with any more.

The govt is already paying for more than enough fraud investigation. What we need is MIncome so no one is means-tested or placed under a microscope merely because they are disabled and, as a consequence, poor.

Omaha Steve

(99,660 posts)
11. Well said
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:39 PM
Jan 2015

So how do we help disabled individuals that get turned down that have to turn around and fight to get benefits?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
13. This is where the tragedy occurs, there are truly disabled people who does need the help and I
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:56 PM
Jan 2015

Am all for those to receive SSDI. We never know where our lives will turn. I know of one who has surgery for a brain tumor who can hardly walk around in his home without falling from being dizzy but he is still waiting to get his SSDI. In his earlier years he worked and cared for his family but his disability prevents some if the simply chores now.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
17. You are trying to create the tragedy
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:16 AM
Jan 2015

By making SSI/SSDI seem like the feeding trough of fraudsters, which you come here to do under the cover of claimed pro Democratic vote sentiments, you are trying to plant seeds of sentiment to defund disability support as "entitlements".

Anyone who does not see the rightwing concern trolling here is blind or in cahoots.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
14. In lieu of mincome
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:04 AM
Jan 2015

There should be a specific program instead of General Assistance. Because GA is just conceived as the last ditch resort for the poor, it is DELIBERATELY designed to be impossible to live on so people will just use it to avoid homelessness for a month or so and bounce back to work at an easy-to-get Walmart job. But this is a catastrophe for people applying for SSI.

Perhaps people applying for SSI should be advanced those benefits as a loan during the application process. Having tht stability of income for the past couple of years would have put me in a much better position for retraining and *getting off SSI*. Instead I've been dragged through 3 years of indigent level poverty, bureaucratic hell, and unimaginable stress just to get to my court date. My case will ultimately cost the taxpayer lot more than it should have in Medi-Cal, Food Stamps, SSI back payments, Dept of Rehab services, etc. And now you can tack the fraud investigator onto that.

Now imagine a world where people are just allowed to support themselves with standard benefits while they are pursuing a claim they are too disabled to hold down a job. If their claim is found to be spurious, the "bridge money" will need to be paid back. Or the State could consider it justly used since doctor's letters would be needed to obtain it in the first place.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
46. Costs more to investigate the minor amounts of fraud than the return. Most people who apply
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 05:01 PM
Jan 2015

never get SSDI and for those who do, it takes Years on average.

They're defunding administration for these programs to make them less accessible too.

Please don't encourage her; she's a font of misinformation.

mentalsolstice

(4,461 posts)
49. She's referring to things she learned from teevee
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 05:48 PM
Jan 2015

She refers to Eric Conn...he was the focus of a bit on 60 Minutes. It was about him and some SSA judges that awarded a high number of SSDI claims in a small region of KY, as compared to the rest of the country. However, 60 Minutes made it sound like fraud was rampant all over the country.

A couple of days ago, ThinkingAbout was saying her vast knowledge about SSDI fraud was based on things she saw on Judge Judy .

I'm a SSDI recipient. Fortunately, my claim was awarded on it's initial application without any lawyers, appeals or judges. SSDI, is not based on household income. However, some DUers believe that recipients should be wearing sackcloth and driving junk cars, or not be driving at all. How dare we live in decent housing, go out from time to time to dinner or movies, travel, or have other conveniences that normal people have like smartphones (yes, that was actually said).

What the Republicans are doing is trying to force us to stay in our hovels, because really who likes seeing a person with a disability out and about, force us out of Medicare, and really just force us into life or death decisions...hoping we'll choose the latter. And if they succeed, then they can repeal other pesky laws like the ADA, IDEA...yes, I'm looking at you Rand Paul.

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
66. You are so right about this.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:20 PM
Jan 2015

I think there is a real gut level hatred of people with disabilities that some people manifest in the most bizarre ways.

I wish there was a better word for this hatred than "ableism" - which sounds much too benign.

Why else would someone post the same BS time and time again, in any and every thread that mentions anything to do with these parts of the social safety net?

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
72. I wish Washington would concern itself less with small-time frauds.
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jan 2015

SSDI is a hoax worthy of the Welfare Queen myth.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
18. how many people do you know that recovered from long term dementia?
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:18 AM
Jan 2015

i really don't like it when people tell me things that are obviously nonsense.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
22. Yes it was nonsense, I don't recall saying it was long term dementia, I said he claimed to have
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:01 AM
Jan 2015

early onset dementia.

Read below for more information about this case:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/jamessmithplea.html

Sometimes we have to admit there is fraud.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
27. Admitting fraud exists in the world
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:54 AM
Jan 2015

is not the same as demanding programs come to a grinding halt until we stop it.

This is where you reveal your true GOP talking point colors.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
29. You can not rewrite what I have posted to sound like your GOP talking points.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:30 PM
Jan 2015

I have said many times the SSDI should go to the people who are truly disabled not to fraud. You are doing what FOX does by misrepresenting what I have said ergo showing your true colors. I have said more than one time it is going to be difficult to get a GOP Congress to get the funds transferred, but they will be able to point to the same fraud stories and if fraud did not occur so often there would be more money available to those in need. Let me state firmly, I do not advocate ceasing SSDI to assist our disabled, it is nit the fault of the disabled there are crooks stealing from the system. This is stealing from the disabled, shameful. Laziness and refusal to work is not a disability.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
31. I'm not rewriting what you have said
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jan 2015

Allow me to quote what you have said:

"SSDI should go to people who are truly disabled not to fraud."

The GOP talking point is that fraud is a big deal in SSI/SSDI.

It is not. It is something that is over-checked to death, and that grinds the applicants into the ground by delaying the application process, by withholding SSI/SSDI from people who should be getting it, and from placing people under the additional stress of investigation just because they are poor and need to be means/deserving-tested.

You KEEP RESTATING A GOP TALKING POINT.

It was not "going to be difficult" to get the funds transferred in a REGULAR ACCOUNTING MOVE until the GOP retook congress. So if you have been stating this for "some time", I once again question which party you really represent on this forum.

"Laziness and refusal to work" is also a GOP meme to dismantle what they see as "entitlements".

SOMEONE PLEASE CALL MIRT!!! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT AND EVERY POST THIS PERSON MAKES SLIPS IN ADDITIONAL "TALKING POINT" UNDER THE COVER OF "EXPLAINING"!

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
33. Did you post the following:
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jan 2015

Admitting fraud exists in the world
is not the same as demanding programs come to a grinding halt until we stop it.

This is where you reveal your true GOP talking point colors.

Which is better?


1) Make sure all the disabled are supported on livable benefits and accept the price is a few frauds may get through.

OR

2) Spend all money on detecting fraud and accept some disabled may get inadvertantly cut off as long as we catch all fraudsters?

Which answer makes you the Tea Party concern troll?

Why isn't MIRT all over this?

Now where have you read where I have said these things? Maybe MIRT should get on this, you call me out for things I did not say and then post you want to believe what I said.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
35. You are repeatedly saying SSI/SSDI money is being wasted on fraud
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jan 2015

And you have said some of it is going to people "lazy and unwilling to work" as well!

Fox Channel ahoy!

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
37. I have said SSDI is stolen by those who are not disabled, fraudulent claims and yes I did
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jan 2015

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
40. Congratulations for cherry picking examples of fraud
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:47 PM
Jan 2015

Again, you are carrying water for a GOP case against SSI/SSDI. You should not me doing that on DU.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
41. You learn well, FOX is a good teacher for those who wants to listen to their lies.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 03:48 PM
Jan 2015

BTW, your name is interesting, perhaps when I said lazy and unwilling to work is a bother. Hey, what did I say about SSI? You go and enjoy, I have other things to do. I don't listen to FOX much.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
42. You can click on my sig for the source of my username
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 04:08 PM
Jan 2015

Deflecting "no you are!" does not hide the fact you have carried GOP/Fox propaganda here. Let me recap how you have used your comments to spread GOP propaganda to destroy SSI/SSDI here:

You say:

1) SSI/SSDI is full of fraud.
2) SSI/SSDI recipients include people who are "lazy and don't want to work".
3) You claim that the recent GOP move to block the transfer of funds to SSDI represents a regular crisis of funding, which you projected into the past, perpetuating the GOP's storyline of permanent shortfall and need to eliminate those funds.
4) You cherry-pick and list here 5 or 6 cases of fraud to prove your point that the system is rife with it.

These are all ways SSI/SSDI would have been represented as "entitlements" that must be eliminated on Fox, by the Tea Party, etc.

#FactsInThisThread

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
52. You are right, my post are what I said but not what you posted on my behalf,
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 06:50 PM
Jan 2015

Ergo, you don't have proof of what you said I posted. It is over, you don't have any proof.

DesertDawg

(66 posts)
73. Fraud?
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jan 2015

I have an example of a typical SSDI experience. 60 year old Woman, has COPD, legally blind in one eye, bad anxiety and due to 40 years as a Nurse has carpel tunnel, arthritic elbows, arthritic back, arthritic knee, zero cartilage left in another knee, arthritis in her feet as well as fallen arches and plantars. Can't even lift a jug of water or open a jar. She's worked most of her life, paid taxes and paid into the system yet is going on 3 years of fighting SSI for Benefits that are continually denied. Being in pain 24 hours per day, unable to walk or breath and being Elderly isn't good enough, SSI has determined this Woman can still work and can, at her age with her issues be retrained for a minimum wage desk job.

Fraud my ass. If there's any fraud going on it's miniscule and is a bullshit GOP talking point, nothing more.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
76. Word.
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 04:08 PM
Jan 2015

This is what happens when people keep pushing "fraud investigation" instead of getting help to people who need it as the priority.

hunter

(38,317 posts)
30. We should stop funding state motor vehicle departments.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:17 PM
Jan 2015

There's clearly a lot of fraud in them because the way many people drive it's clear they never, ever could have passed any sort of legitimate driver's test.



Ah, it's the stench of right wing "talking points" and propaganda... It permeates political discourse in the U.S.A., even on protected center-left sites like DU.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
55. Link, please?
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 07:54 PM
Jan 2015

Most people I know who are on SSI or SSDI got denied four or five times before they finally got approved.

REP

(21,691 posts)
58. Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the bias against the disabled
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 07:59 PM
Jan 2015

Yup. All cheats and frauds. Busted by someone who can watch TV real good.

 

Ykcutnek

(1,305 posts)
21. For every person I know that games the system,
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:50 AM
Jan 2015

I know at least three more who need the system for their livelihood.

Americans need to get over their fear of someone barely scraping by might be getting a few extra dollars they "don't deserve."

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
25. Thank you for supporting those in need
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:50 AM
Jan 2015

But I'm curious about these people you know who are "gaming the system".

As a person who is in the system, I see that as spectacularly hard to do.

First of all, you get so little out of the system, and you have to work so hard for what you do get, it is not worth gaming. You would only go through this if you were truly desperate.

Second, there are many checks in the system before you even get to the point of "fraud investigators". You have to fill out status reports frequently - it's an incredible burden that often results in accidental unnecessary stoppage in benefits! For means-tested and criteria-tested programs there are regular checks on both your means and whether you meet those criteria.

The frauds in the system tend to be the people in the system who CONTROL the paperwork, such as doctors who bill Medicare or Medi-Cal.

Methinks there is an urban legend created about disability claims that developed from all the disability lawyers advertising on TV. However, those lawyers are FISHING to sort through who calls. They will only take your case if it is a slam dunk since they often work on commission - and the SSI/SSDI criteria are set pretty high. Then there are the cases of people who "don't look disabled" - don't get me started on the American tendency to make judgments without knowing jacksh*t about someone else is going through. And then there is always the game of Chinese whispers: everyone has a friend who knows someone who got away with something.

When you think about it, do you really, actually know people "gaming the system"? Have you ever thought about how an ongoing idea that "people" are "gaming the system", whether true or not, is generating an environment that crushes people who have done nothing wrong at all?

CountAllVotes

(20,876 posts)
28. +1,000
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 09:01 AM
Jan 2015

You are very right. Every person I can think of that is getting away with what they perceive as "something" has an inside connection to "the system".

However, many of these hard-up people (and yes, you've got to be hard-up to try and pull this sort of crap!) become quite devastated when they find out that the fatty pension they are drawing w/benefits is changed once they become "disabled". They MUST enroll in A/B Medicare and they get dropped from their former insurance.

They squeal like little piglets when they find this out and realize that the hole they have dug for themselves is not so easy to crawl out of.

As a disabled person it angers me that people get away with this but it is even more interesting to me to watch it backfire on them when they begin to realize that the world in which a truly disabled person lives in is not so hot; in fact it truly sucks along with the horrid stigma that goes with it! As for the seemingly constant reviews, etc., I often wonder why they bother with folks that have illnesses for which there is no real viable treatment/cure as is my case.

Good post btw.





daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
34. Medicare?
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

Are you saying these are older people applying for SSI/SSDI a few years before they would have been eligible for retirement anyway? The criteria does get relaxed then.

The pity is they were probably forced into this route because of age discrimination (though I wouldn't knock the stress and anxiety of long-term unemployment and poverty as being disabling in itself: the stability of SSI income could put people back on their feet if it wasn't such hell to get in the first place that people were afraid to let go of it). SSI at least is means-tested, so, as you mentioned, they had to roll over any pension and burn through any IRAs they had first. Again, the situation is counter-productive for a State that wants people to have those savings for their retirement.

CountAllVotes

(20,876 posts)
62. The people that are doing this
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 12:13 PM
Jan 2015

Are retired already. They do not want to wait until they are old enough to collect SSA so they are filing for SSDI benefits.

They think they are winning until they realize that their former employer demands they enroll in Part B Medicare which is something they had not realized -- that Medicare is part of the deal.

Once they find this out, often too late, they are having little fits because the insurance they once had, the insurance that came to their home when they needed physical therapy is no longer an option as they must present themselves at a physical therapy office and take what is available and also they are now confined to the physical therapy benefits that Medicare provides.

Anything above and beyond what Medicare pays (aka a "supplemental plan&quot is a little bit of gravy but you can bet it is not much gravy so to speak.

Frankly, people that do things like this out of GREED in most cases deserve exactly what they get IMO which is = diminished health care in most cases.

Oh well ... just proves it doesn't pay to "game" the system as it tends to backfire!

The case of physical therapy that I present, is just one of many in the case of Medicare v. private insurance that these people that are doing quite well already are shocked to find out that this is what they now get when they get greedy and want their benefits NOW rather than later!



daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
63. They will definitely soon learn a lesson
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 01:28 PM
Jan 2015

Any "money" that comes from the government comes with a price tag that's higher than its worth. The people who hold out to apply for it and go through the regular qualification checks for it are truly desperate. While the government will overlook any problems with ITSELF, it will not go light on those checks.

This is not large amounts of money, either. In California, SSI is in the area of $900/month with no added food stamps allowed. In the area I lived, you would be hard pressed to rent a room in a house for that amount at this point. It's very easy for people who have never fallen into disability to say to someone who has lived in an area all their lives and has community ties there, "well just move someplace you can afford". That place will probably have shoddy public services infrastructure just when you need it the most, shoddy public transportation just when you "can't afford" to live in the city center, and you won't have any friends or family there.

As inflation rises, this amount of money is unlikely to rise much. It will always be a big political fight to make it rise.

The people receiving this money live in poverty for the rest of their lives. They live under tight surveillance by the government for the rest of their lives. They have to deal with absurd, contradictory, bureaucracies for the rest of their lives. They live under the disapproving judgment of society, who presumes them to be cheaters if they do anything to enjoy themselves for the rest of their lives.

This is not a choice for "fraud" or "greed". It's a choice for survival for people who can't otherwise hold down a job because of their health circumstances. For people with intermittent disabilities or subjective pain-related disabilities the social pressures result in much self-interrogation about what level of difficulty is really "disabled" - and I'd stake my last dollar that half the initial SSI denials would have passed if the SSI applicants themselves wouldn't have been so muddled by this social guilt that they answered the questions on the application in an ambiguous way instead of saying "I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT WORK!" I know I did that.

The people who are speculating on all the fraudsters out there don't know the level of difficulty involved. You truly would need colluding doctors and lawyers to do it, and for the amount of money involved, I don't see how the kickbacks are worth it.

Solly Mack

(90,773 posts)
23. What's the old saying?
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:02 AM
Jan 2015

Republicans would starve 99 families/people to catch one cheat and Democrats would feed 99 cheats to be able to feed the 1 family/person that really needs it.

mentalsolstice

(4,461 posts)
53. And threads about the disabled usually sink like the Titanic here @ DU
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 06:59 PM
Jan 2015

Nobody likes to think about it or talk about it. Most other minorities (black, LGBT) and issues of discrimination and civil rights are such because of birth, you can't change the color of your skin, sexual orientation or gender identity. And in this day and age many of us, black and white, LBGT and heterosexual, can discuss those issues with some comfort as we accept ourselves and each other.

However, any of us can become disabled in a New York second...thru military service, an accident or disease. Thus people avert their eyes and don't want to discuss it. Pretty much, in most people's opinion, it's the second worse thing that can happen, the first being death. Of course, many of us who are disabled know that's not true, we can still live rich, full lives. But dammit, it would be nice if our plight would be given notice and serious discussion, instead of being swept under the carpet.

mentalsolstice

(4,461 posts)
80. Yep, about Rand
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 08:34 PM
Jan 2015

My dad (KY) is a stalwart Republican. But, I told him if he ever gave me any indication that he voted for Rand, I would never speak to him again. I don't know how he voted, he kept his mouth shut. He is disappointed and ashamed that I receive SSDI & Medicare. In my case, my husband is 14 years older than me. With me qualifying for SSDI it meant that he could retire, we could live in a way without worrying about a roof over our heads, or choosing food over utilities. And we both have Medicare...my husband also has VA benefits. Without my benefits, he would've had to work until he died, to keep me insured. We're doing okay now, but we juggle bills. With the cuts to SSDI that Congress is putting in, yep, we'll have to worry about utilities and groceries. And we're lucky, as many others will have to deal with a lot worse.

Throughout my life, my disability was the elephant in the living room, my parents didn't want to talk about it. My mom is a lifelong Dem, however, they refuse to talk politics and issues that can impact my life.

Edit: While we may suffer, we won't suffer as much as others...and we're not the kind of people that think we've got ours, screw everyone else. The cuts in SSDI bother me...what kind of society throws the least of them under the bus?

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
83. Just wanted to thank you again for your posts
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 12:18 AM
Jan 2015

on the bias against people with disabilities. I think many if not most people still don't get that we're dealing with an actual bias here, akin to racism and homophobia, against people purely because of their disabilities.

Thank you, and best wishes.

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