DOJ finds insufficient evidence to indict Darren Wilson on civil rights charges.

[WillowTree]

Sigh.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. I am not surprised ...

civil rights cases are difficult to bring without proof of racial animus.

[6000eliot]

5. I guess shooting an unarmed Black kid dead isn't enough?

[Seeking Serenity]

9. Shooting an unarmed black man is proof of racial animus?

Didn't know that.

[bigtree]

10. civil rights involves more than 'racial animus'

[Seeking Serenity]

12. Read the subthread.

I was addressing one specific point raised by the poster to whom I was responding. I never made a sweeping statement that all civil rights cases have to involve racial animus.

[6000eliot]

14. You need to enlighten me why it ISN'T proof of racial animus.

Would he have shot a White kid?

[geek tragedy]

24. It's not enough that he was acting out of racial bias.

It has to be that he saw a black kid and decided to shoot him explicitly because he was black.

Proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

That means mistake, panic, poor training, adrenaline, poor judgment, etc would all have to be disproven as plausible explanations beyond a reasonable doubt.

[WillowTree]

27. If you have some sort of evidence.......

.......that he wouldn't have shot a white kid under the same circumstances, please get that information to the FBI post haste. But it has to be actual evidence, not just "what you know you know".

[6000eliot]

40. Oh right, of course he would have done the same thing to a White kid.

Give me a fucking break.

[Rex]

42. If a white kid would have pissed him off enough to shoot him? Are you saying that

doesn't happen? Guess again, happens all the time. Wilson lost it and shot someone with their hands in the air. Someones right to life was taken away and guess what...black or white, justice will not get served.

Saved by the badge...100%

[geek tragedy]

45. "Yeah right" is not enough to convict.

Neither are "give me a break" and "oh come on" and "seriously?"

[WillowTree]

68. What part of "evidence is needed in order to indict" do you fail to understand?

[former9thward]

28. That is not the standard.

Maybe he would have shot a white kid under similar circumstances, maybe would not. The standard is was he, beyond a reasonable doubt, looking to kill a black kid that day.

[sabrina 1]

19. 'Civil Rights'. I would think that being murdered for walking in the middle of the street is

a Civil Rights matter. Kids walk in the middle of the street all the time. Does this mean there can be open season on kids or adults for that matter, for walking down the middle of the road?

[Boudica the Lyoness]

34. Was he walking in the middle of the street when he was shot?

[Rex]

35. No he had his hands up in the air in surrender.

[sabrina 1]

36. Supposing he had not been stopped for waking down the street. He would be alive today.

Why was he stopped?

Did that cop stop everyone who walks down the middle of the street?

He would be pretty busy I would think if he spent his time stopping every kid who wandered into the middle of the street.

Is there a law against it? I don't know. If there is, then a ticket would suffice, no?

[Rex]

43. Seems we have a new law now, which you and I both know is an old old law

Saved by the Badge. Wilson is a walking free man, because he is an ex-cop. Bet you people will pretend that never happens.

[sabrina 1]

50. Shameful, isn't it? 'Saved by the badge'! Yes, we protect our war criminals, our Wall St criminals

and our Cops and don't forget, Bush withdrew our country from the ICC to protect soldiers and the CIA and our Military Contractors from prosecution also for war crimes he appeared to have anticipated.

I wonder how ordinary people can get in on this protection racket?

[Rex]

51. Well there are so many layers to this ziggaurat you almost have to know where you

want to start off at. Do you want to be a lowly cop, but you get to bust heads and kick a lot of ass? You want to be a politician and lie so much that you go on Foxnews and they actually make sense? Or if you were born into wealth (like Dubya), you can let your daddy right ghost on all your companies while dictating orders to the CIA and various military conglomerates. You could be a CIA thug or a NSA late night peeping Tom. Like feeling people up? Go to work for the TSA.

Do you want to just hustle loose cigarettes on a corner? Careful on that one. Jaywalking can lead to death. Just know what pays off, stealing assets from people is legal if you are a banker. Stealing assets is legal if you work on the Force. Stealing assets is legal, if our oil is under your land.

Ordinary people are the marks. You have to go to career day to decide AND don't forget you can also go the tele-evangelist route!

Hoover was right, there is no organized crime - it is all legal enough now.

[sabrina 1]

53. I don't like any of those choices. I thought I had exceeded my outrage meter with all of the

injustices we have witnessed, and many we know they are hiding.

Until I read THIS:

Poisonings, beatings, gassings, record 346 inmates die, dozens of guards fired in Florida prisons

Omg! It can't be true! We are truly lost in this country. This is the 'stuff of nightmares'!

[Rex]

57. I hear ya, I remember hearing all the people in the crowd clapping on TVEE

when Perry was asked about the record number of inmates put to death in Texas during his run for POTUS. They were fucking CHEERING! Yeah! We killed more people in TEXAS! Yee Haw!

Our outrage means nothing to criminally insane people like Poppy or Perry. To them we are nothing but human capital.

[sabrina 1]

59. Not to worry, the DOJ is 'investigating' this horror. No doubt they will indict the murderous,

racist, sadistic 'officers'.

And we have the audacity to criticize others for 'human rights violations'.

Thanks Rex, for caring about these things. Seems so many Americans prefer to remain oblivious to what is being done in their name.

[Rex]

60. I am glad we can talk about it, no one around here really even cares much about it.

Living in south Texas can take a toll on a liberal person. I just have a few people to talk to about it in RL, but a lot on the internet. Thank goodness for the internet, I would have gone total basketcase without it under Dubya.

People will one day be horrified with the facts of what we have done in all our names. You saw how the CIA fought like hell (along with Foxnews) to downplay any mention of torture. Sometimes I don't even know why they bother or care so much - so many people around here favor torture and draw that blank stare if you ask them WHY.

Umm...freedumbs and America!

Yeah...that shit won't fly forever.

Thank you for caring too, about people we will never meet. They had a voice. They had a life to live.

[sabrina 1]

61. Me too ...

[LeftOfWest]

62. 'Saved by the badge' omg. Yes.

That is so sickening and sadly right sabrina!

Ordinary people, thank you!

[bigtree]

11. should be

Chuck_MODI ?@POPSspotSports 31m31 minutes ago

"Its easier 4 PETA to get Civil Rights case over animal than Black person after being killed." @mdotbanks #Ferguson

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. Not to bring a Civil Rights case ...

absent the officers history racist conduct or a contemporaneous racist rant, i.e., evidence the conduct occurred BECAUSE the victim is/was Black, it would/will be a losing case.

[sabrina 1]

22. Civil Rights doesn't necessarily have to do with race. Being shot to death for walking down the

middle of the road would seem to me to be a violation of one's civil rights, regardless of race.

[bigtree]

2. so much for the expectation and insistence by some that this WH has Ferguson's back

...sigh, indeed. More protest is needed to keep the federal government's focus on bringing more pressure to bear to ensure that justice is being properly applied in police action and misconduct. No one seriously looking at the disparity of the application of the law toward black Americans vs. whites should conclude that more doesn't need to be done.

I wonder if that's going to be the last word on action by the Justice Dept. in this case, in Ferguson regarding police misconduct toward protests, for example?

[woolldog]

3. If Holder could have indicted he would have.

Do you really think otherwise?

[bigtree]

4. obviously I do

...as do many others.\

[Cha]

16. I know he would have, wooldog.. thank you. damn

[sabrina 1]

25. Yes, he could have. When kids are being shot to death for walking down the middle of the road

that would seem to be a violation of their civil rights, regardless of race.

[WillowTree]

6. No. Holder makes the final decision.

But I don't know what he can do further if the FBI couldn't find the evidence needed to indict.

[bigtree]

8. well, that might be correct, I'm not convinced

I do think that the law weighs in the police favor more than it does the citizen's in this case. That might be the problem, more than the Justice Dept.'s will.

[Recursion]

21. It's the AG's job to enforce the law, even if it's a bad law

It's irresponsible of a prosecutor to bring a case he think he can't make. But, yeah, the law needs to change.

[branford]

54. Change to what exactly?

Congress is not about to federalize state murder and manslaughter charges, and might be constrained from doing so due to various federalism issues, not to mention potential double jeopardy concerns (which would be an issue here where the state failed to indict).

There's absolutely nothing "bad" about the federal criminal civil rights laws. They are just different, and because they implicate a federal constitutional interest, require that the government meet additional standards than what would be required to prove in a state murder or related charge.

It would also generally be unconstitutional for Congress to effective lower the standards of proof or due process necessary for any criminal conviction, civil rights or otherwise.

Lastly, the government and prosecutors, federal and state, have more than enough power already, and defendants are almost always at a great disadvantage. In order to prosecute the odd bad cop, are you really about to tilt the scales even further towards the government in criminal matters?

[geek tragedy]

15. This administration did not draft the civil rights statute including its

requirement of showing specific intent beyond a reasonable doubt, so a little out there to portray this as a betrayal.

[Cha]

18. Thank you, geek.

[arthritisR_US]

23. You can thank his reasoning, of which I understand but I

[Cha]

26. I know.. I feel bad but feel it's not over somehow..

arthritisR_US

[arthritisR_US]

39. No it is not and I am with you luv

[geek tragedy]

29. The local corruption and racism has to be purged at the local level.

The federal laws and resources can't deal with all of the Fergusons and Cleveland's and NYPDs and Oaklands . . . Depressing.

[arthritisR_US]

41. Justice cannot be denied, it can be raped for a time but one day truth and

sunshine will enlighten and administer.

[Rex]

46. Question is who is going to do it?

And you know the only answer is the government, because if the people do it we are all beyond fucked at that point. Not sunshine, prosecution of bad apples.

Bad apples motivate the NYPD to turn their back on THEIR mayor. The NYPD motivates other PDs to look away too when one of 'their own' does X, Y and Z crime.

[geek tragedy]

49. That's why the country needs DeBlasio to stand firm against

the thuggery of Lynch et al.

[Rex]

52. I was shocked at how outright hostile Lynch was.

It's one thing to read the company line, but another to incite COPS to be belligerent. I stand behind DeBlasio and hope he doesn't crater to pressure. It's not even a R or D thing in NY, I read they've hated on all the mayors no matter what.

What gets me is that is how I expect the military to behave, not a civilian work force. Not a good trend.

[branford]

56. The NYPD has fought bitterly with every modern NYC mayor,

even Giuliani, their biggest and most vocal supporter.

Most of the conflicts concern union contract negotiations, as it does now. Do not forget that the PBA, of which Lynch is president, has been working without a contract for over 5 years, and the matter is just about to start mandatory arbitration. All the hate and theatrics toward the mayor is less about power and privilege, and more about negotiating leverage for better overtime rates and vacation days.

Once the PBA has a new contract, do not be surprised if the police unions and mayor suddenly reach a mutually acceptable detente, at least until election season.

[arthritisR_US]

55. Then we are not talking about justice.

I weep.

[Recursion]

7. Unfortunately all Wilson's story has to be is plausible

Not even readily believable, just plausible.

[geek tragedy]

17. Not even plausible, just not obviously driven by specific intent to

deprive civil rights.

[sabrina 1]

63. How sad your statement is. It demonstrates so clearly how people can become so desensitized

to the loss of a young, human life, from living in environments where human life is so disposable, that they can even rationalize murder.

We criticize other cultures, while remaining blind to our own brutal culture of violence. I suppose, so do they.

I wonder how eg, Norway would react to such a crime?

Very differently I imagine.

But then, they value human life.

The taking of a life is the most egregious of crimes.

In civilized societies.

Clearly not in this one.

It gives me chills.

[arthritisR_US]

20. Im fecking disgusted. nt

[Rex]

30. So the right to life is no longer a civil right?

Yikes.

[geek tragedy]

32. Conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the intent was to deprive

him of his life out of malice. Irrational fear because the victim was black isn't enough.

[Rex]

33. Where did I bring up race in this?

I have no doubt the guy killed him out of malice, it is possible race had something to do with it. So yeah, life is no longer a civil right anymore...I get it loud and clear.

[geek tragedy]

37. Can we really rule out, beyond a reasonable doubt, some combination

of bad judgment, latent racism, adrenaline, bad training, etcetera.

In terms of evidence, hard to see how they get there.

[Rex]

38. There is no proof that Brown wanted to or tried to kill Wilson, but plenty

of proof Wilson wanted to kill Brown. People can hide it behind race and the badge if they must. Browns civil rights were violated by Wilson, but that doesn't matter.

Easy to get there for people that care.

[geek tragedy]

44. Federal law requires more than a showing that civil rights

were violated for a conviction. Need proof that it was an act of malice, not stupidity/panic/irrational fear of black men.

[Rex]

47. How do you disprove a negative in court?

I'll leave it up to the legal minds, that doesn't make any sense to me. All I know is that one human, Wilson did deprive one human, Brown of his right to life. For no apparent reason.

Now I don't know if he had his hands up in the air or if he was on his knees when Wilson killed him, but again I say there was no good reason I can find in my head that Wilson had to kill Brown.

Seemed like pure malice to me, but that is just my opinion.

I'm also curious about any investigation into St. Louis PD and others that were violating the rights of protesters, reporters, cops running around without ID on etc..

You cannot just let local PDs become fiefdoms...for people that have never lived in such a place - consider yourself lucky.

[geek tragedy]

48. Local law allows for manslaughter etc.

Federal law pretty much requires a showing of premeditated murder.

He didn't have any good reason to kill Brown. But they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his reason was the shittiest of all shitty reasons.

Ferguson PD and DA both need extensive investigations and monitoring.

[branford]

58. The Ferguson PD is subject to a separate federal investigation

distinct from Officer Wilson.

It's quite possible that the DOJ will still seek remediation of Ferguson PD policies, procedures, training and even hiring practices.

I doubt that there's much the feds can do about the DA's prosecutorial discretion.

[Glengoolie]

65. That doesn't seem to be proving a negative...

IOW, showing that racial motivations drove his actions , via words or behavior, is proving something happened. Causality.. A led to B...


Proving the negative would be the assumption that his actions were driven by racial malice and placing the burden on Wilson to show that they were not...

[Glengoolie]

64. Are you suggesting that all cases where a life is lost...

... are civil rights matters and thus should fall under federal jurisdiction?

Or are you suggesting that the folks who are accused should have to be cleared twice, once at the state/local level and once at the federal?

[Rex]

67. No, just were malice is involved should there actually be a criminal case against Wilson.

Maybe you forgot, but he never went to court to face criminal charges. Are you saying he shouldn't?

[Glengoolie]

69. What sort of malice?

Just any level of intent? (Pretty much anything that is not an accident)

Racial motivation?

What does that mean?

[WillowTree]

71. And what actual evidence of malice on Wilson's part are you in possession of?

And why aren't you sharing that evidence with the Feds so they would have grounds to indict?

[onecaliberal]

31. So killing an unarmed person in the street because he talked back

To police Is now okay? Hmmm....

[woo me with science]

66. Utterly consistent with other revolting behavior of this "Justice" Department and administration

in entrenching a police state and dismantling the rights of citizens.

The Third Way is merely the Democratic arm of the bipartisan corporate coup aggressively and systematically dismantling democracy and the Bill of Rights in this nation:

Obama Justice Dept. declines to pursue allegations that CIA spied on Senate Intelligence Committee
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014843337

Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11781446

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration DOJ fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

DEA and DOJ Struck Deal with Mexico's Most Notorious Drug Cartel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4410768
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-government-and-the-sinaloa-cartel-2014-1#ixzz2qKWem3w8

Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

DOJ lied to Supreme Court about domestic surveillance
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140514/06214727229/doj-still-trying-to-hide-fact-it-flat-out-lied-to-supreme-court-about-domestic-surveillance.shtml

The Obama administration/DOJ war on whistleblowers and federal unions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586389

DOJ Mysteriously Quits Monsanto Antitrust Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021911441

Holder/Obama administration seeks to legalize lying in response to Freedom of Information requests.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586380

NSA Phone Spying Cannot Be Challenged in Court, Feds Say ..
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1014542562

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches for minor traffic stops.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586369
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Holder overlooks DEA abuse of spying information, construction of false evidence trails against Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1168570

DOJ goes all the way to the SC to argue for warrantless GPS tracking on cars
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586375

Obama/Holder War on Journalism coming to a head (Risen)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101699216
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/04/obamas-war-journalism-coming-head
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1269998

Obama/Holder more hostile to medical marijuana patients than any president in history
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002650922
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5585204

Feds seek hard prison time for rural Washington pot growers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014801804

Obama DOJ spying on AP reporters, editors re: leaks; other news organizations
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/opinion/spying-on-the-associated-press.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014487549

Obama/Holder DOJ drags out Tesoro investigation (Refinery Explosion) for 4 years; no criminal charges vs. Big Energy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025407823

Obama DOJ drags feet at accountability on Deepwater Horizon
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/04/22/doj-sits-on-its-thumbs/

Obama DOJ Allows Bank of America to Deduct $12 Billion of $17 Billion Settlement
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5427407

Exporting Corruption (Asset Forfeiture), DOJ Looks for Lucrative Overseas Partnerships
http://www.forfeiturereform.com/exporting_corruption_doj_looks_for_lucrative_overseas_partnerships

Obama/Holder Leak Investigations Outrageous and Unprecedented
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/05/obama_s_justice_department_holder_s_leak_investigations_are_outrageous_and.html

The DoJ under Obama/Holder refused to prosecute anyone for torture...but Holder had no problem prosecuting a CIA agent who leaked the name of a torturer
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022846735
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/us/former-cia-officer-pleads-guilty-in-leak-case.html?_r=0

Too Big to Jail: Letting criminal banks and bankers off the hook
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024906501
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017201343
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025558689
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014571503
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025503531

Obama Justice Department Sues Telecom for Challenging National Security Letter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014170619

Obama DOJ Argues ‘No Constitutional Right Not to Become an Informant’
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10025309330

Operation Choke Point- The DOJ using banks to shut down industries they don't like
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024880788

Obama/Holder DOJ Looks To Overturn Ruling That Would Apply Fair Sentencing Act Retroactively
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023334909

How Eric Holder Facilitated the Most Unjust Presidential Pardon in American History
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023253563

Holder and Obama Dishonesty On Mandatory Minimums, the Drug War and Mass Incarceration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023492539

US & NSA Accused of (Holder defends) Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023086724

Obama DOJ defends NSA's Associational Tracking Program; No justification even in Patriot Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023455121

US declares socialists Freedom Road a terrorist organization
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/09/raid-s29.html

ACLU sues as DOJ ignores surveillance transparency law
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/aclu-sues-doj-ignores-surveillance-transparency-law

Obama Justice Department has launched twice as many Espionage Act prosecutions against domestic leakers as all previous administrations combined.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The only official punished by Obama DOJ for the illegal NSA program was the one who discussed it. The same is now true of torture.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/27/obama-war-on-whistleblowers-purpose

DOJ Drone Memo revealed: Government can overrule 4th amendment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11784727

Heavy Redactions in DOJ Memo leave doubts on Data Surveillance Program
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101952

Justice Department And NSA Memos Proposing Broader Powers For NSA To Collect Data
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023114180

DOJ's outrageously aggressive prosecution of internet activist, Aaron Swartz
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/al-franken-eric-holder_n_2934627.html

Under Obama DOJ, Bradley Birkenfeld, UBS Whistleblower, Finds Himself in Federal Prison
http://www.cnbc.com//id/41257962

Obama/Holder DOJ sided with Rove in politically motivated prosecution of fr. AL governor, Don Siegelman,
Then, the person who handled the paperwork, got onto the Supreme Court.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Elena-Kagan--Willing-Acco-by-Michael-Collins-100622-971.html

[Nuclear Unicorn]

72. Who watches the watchmen?

The old Roman republic used to have 2 chief executives, consuls. Each served a year at a time and each term saw the military and territory divided between them differently from the previous year.

The idea was that no consul would know just how much force or territory he would control until after the election and since there were 2 of them they acted as counterweights to each other in case 1 became overly ambitious OR negligent in the commission of the office.

The Federalist Papers argued against this approach for the presidency but I'm having second thoughts these days.

[Jamastiene]

73. This would make an excellent OP.

Very well put together and presented.

[99Forever]

70. There will be no justice until we force it.

The shitstorm grows larger and ever closer.