General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRussia’s “Trans Driving Ban” Doesn’t Really Target LGBT Community - The Daily Beast
An overhyped government decree had much different problems than the ones originally reported, but Western media coverage has led to an anti-LGBT backlash within Russia.
Russian Government Bars Transgender People From Obtaining Drivers Licenses!
Such were the headlines on prominent gay blogs, most linking to a BBC story to the same effect.
Trouble is, it isnt true. And the media reporting, say activists, has made things worse.
On 6 January the Russian government issued a decree that approved a list of medical conditions and diagnoses leading to full or partial limitation of the right to drive a vehicle, emailed Anastasia Smirnova, former Project Manager of the Russian LGBT Network and now Programmes & Policy Officer at ILGA-Europe. (ILGA, the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans, and Intersex Association, is a worldwide federation of LGBT organizations from 110 countries. Smirnova is also a participant in The Daily Beasts recent Quorum: Global LGBT Voices program.)
Complete story at - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/russia-s-trans-driving-ban-doesn-t-really-target-lgbt-community-it-actually-targets-the-mentally-ill.html
So, lets recap...
The BBC prints a story that's doubleplusgood because it's anti-Putin or anti-Russia AND it fits the current narrative of the Ministries of Truth in both Washington DC and London. Except it's not really true, aka as an untruth, aka as a lie.
It gets promoted as major news on many important news sites, including here, where it is k&r-ed to the high heavens. Then the TRUE story comes out, and so do the crickets. Go ahead. Prove me wrong.
And to top it all, because of the insane promotion of this story because it meets all the important doubleplusgoodthink criteria, even though it's actually crude propaganda, real people end up getting hurt as a result. But small people must get hurt because lies and propaganda about Putin and Russia is the only thing that matters these days. Screw the small people.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Did you actually read the article?
MattSh
(3,714 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Hence my question to you.
I don't understand, at all, how you can post this, especially with your dare to spread the propaganda that this doesn't target transgender people. Yes, it includes many different psychological issues. Included in the list is
(F64) Gender identity disorders
(F64.0) Transsexualism
(F64.1) Dual-role transvestism
(F64.2) Gender identity disorder of childhood
Therefore, transgender people are on a list of people who may not be able to obtain a drivers license or only obtain a limited one.
Right there in black and white.
And I don't give a shit where this law is in place. The anger and outrage by people who are part of the LGBT community and our allies has zero to do with the fact it's Russia. If it were England or Zimbabwe, we would be just as pissed. It's the fact that transgender people are being discriminated against.
You state,
It's the small people who don't recognize this for what it is. Who can read something and ignore what it says,
are the small minded.
The entire decree sucks. But the bullshit that by calling it out for what it is would be the reason it was used is both ridiculous and victim blaming.
Your post is abhorrent. If transgender people were not part of the target, then the category of Gender Identity Disorders would not be included.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Are you really trying to tell me that it's the West's fault if Russia applies this paragraph of russian law to russian people the russian state considers subhumans?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)on trans people? So far, it's a ban on the 'anything' in that category.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)especially to anti-democratic Putin sympathizers
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)because his assertion is an untruth.
From the article:
From the ICD-10 (where that category came from):
(F64.0) Transsexualism
(F64.1) Dual-role transvestism
(F64.2) Gender identity disorder of childhood
See how easy it is to do a little research before sticking your foot in your mouth? Someone should tell Mr. Michelson.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)(F60.3) Emotionally unstable personality disorder
Along with some more benign disorders like:
(F65.3) Voyeurism
(F65.5) Sadomasochism
The author is not saying this new guidance couldn't be used to discriminate against the LGBT community. The author is saying the headlines that were reported are inaccurate. From the given directive, it would be just as accurate to say Putin is targeting panty sniffers.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)The author is suggesting that because it isn't spelled out, it isn't intended. That is pie in the sky nonsense, particularly when taken with the other Russian laws that actively discriminate against the LGBT community.
Putin has been remarkably clear on where he thinks Russia should stand on the issue - and he's not concerned about panty sniffers.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Numerous disorders are included in F60-69. So to parse out 3 and say that was the intent is just as speculative. Virtually every civilized country in the world lists personality disorders as a disqualifying factor for a driver's license. So while it's certainly possible the intent could have been to discriminate against some LGBT, why would they have gone about it by also including numerous other disorders, some of which most certainly should be disqualifying factors? It's not as if the Putin administration needs or wants to conceal their bigotry. Their whole intent so far has been to not conceal it.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)than saying it wasn't the intent. I'll allow that Putin's government is probably perfectly happy to include other groups - but the bottom line is that his government hasn't been targeting passive-aggressives, over-eaters, or even pedophiles for special attention. They have been targeting the LGBT community.
You know that old saying; when you hear hoofbeats, think horses - not zebras. The horse in this equation is F64.
I understand what you're saying, but you, like the author, is giving a pass to the government on this one that they don't deserve.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)On this particular subject, not so much. As I've already pointed out, if that was their actual motive, they would have no interest in concealing their intentions. The whole point of Putin's anti-LGBT initiatives is to drum up popular support.
I'm certainly not giving Putin's government a pass. I think they are repugnant shit stains. It wouldn't bother me much if the people of Russia gave Putin the Mussolini treatment.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Then the category of Gender Identity Disorders would not be listed.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)"A decree that actually had little to no impact on LGBT people is misrepresented as being anti-LGBT and as a result, it becomes anti-LGBT."
We're making them oppress trans-people. It our fault you see that Russia issued an edict so broad is banned trans people from driving. If only we didn't comment on that, they wouldn't be forced to use the edict to ban trans people from driving.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)screw with LGBT some more, cos, goddamit, it's so unfair.
This silly homosexuals. They think THEY'RE the oppressed people. It's so IRONIC.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)As others have pointed out, trans people are labeled as having a disorder, so this does apply to then.
Fuck Vladimir Putin and his bigoted, fascist apologists.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The reason why the ICD-10 did that was so that doctors would have a diagnosis for those who seek gender reassignment surgery so that insurance plans will cover it.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Behind the Aegis
(54,013 posts)The rationale is because they weren't specifically targeted, it is "propaganda" to say they are targeted by the law. It is linguistic gymnastics at its "best." When crap like this is passed or on the books in countries like ours, the same people pissed off by the Russian law are pissed about the law here and say so, as opposed to those hem-hawing about the Russian law, but have the nerve to claim they are allies to the LGBT community in other threads.
Little by little the Russian government, with the support of the people, are setting GBLT Russians up for something really bad.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)America found every reason to hate Saddam, and we used 9/11 as an excuse to kick out Saddam, and look what happened. We've wasted hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq and created a power vacuum and a terrorist nest.
Beliefs and self-propagandizing can have serious consequences.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)bullshit with bullshit. People who call out all bullshit are opposed to bullshit. See how it works? Saying 'this is bullshit from Russia' does not mean 'American never makes bullshit'. It means this particular bullshit is Russian bullshit. The bullshit of the one does not answer for the bullshit of the other, save for in the eyes of those loyal to one brand of bullshit.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Whatever X,Y,Z other country is doing is irrelevant.
polly7
(20,582 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
NOBODY has said the Russian gov't hasn't passed horrible anti-LGBT laws - however, the Russian gov't is not 'Russia' any more than NATO is 'Canada' for participating in the horrible deaths of so many innocents in Libya. Ramping up the propaganda though seems work for you as it does for the anti-'Russia' campaign (which, obviously, includes suffering for millions of people - including LGBT). Thinking is sometimes more effective than your rofl thing. I doubt anyone here finds any of it funny.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I note you do not offer any citation claiming the Russian people are not largely homophobic because of course they are. Orthodox Church, also bigoted.
So yeah. Canada, NATO. Russia is not Russia. So tired of excuse mongering straights.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I'm not making excuses at all for Russia's gov'ts decisions.
I'm not stupid enough to assume millions of Russia's people are to blame for it, or that the sanctions and hatred being ramped up against a whole people will not affect economically most people in Russia - indluding LGBT, children and everyone else, just as they did, and were intended to do for Iraq.
Don't accuse me of shit you make up in your head, I've many gay people in my life and have defended inequality and bigotry against ALL people forever.
And NO, most Canadians did not want to bomb Libya.
Your generalizations and false accusations are tiring.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and disordered so perhaps if they feel hurt by 'confusion' it is because of the context of their constant inclusion of diagnostic language when speaking of LGBT identity. In short, fuck them.
The Pope Group pulls the same shit, he says terrible things and then they claim he did not mean it. It's bogus then, bogus now. Own the filth you hurl, folks. Because those you hurl it at do not forget for your convenience.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If they aren't listed in the ICD-10 then there's no diagnosis to list for those seeking gender reassignment surgery. If there's no diagnosis, the procedures become elective and few insurance companies are going to cover them.
Certainly the unintended consequence of this is the intellectually challenged are going to point to this and use it as a tool for nefarious purposes.
marym625
(17,997 posts)It's a physical disorder and not a physiological one. And to include it in the list of reasons a person can't drive is nothing but propaganda against transgender people.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)There is a movement to remove those diagnoses from the personality disorder section, but it's not as simple as just moving it somewhere else and complete removal from the ICD-10 would be extremely harmful to those who are seeking insurance coverage of gender reassignment surgery or some who are requesting coverage for hormone therapy.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)cover it now - and most still require extensive and persistent treatment from mental health professionals at every step. Multiple referrals; on-going therapy; more referrals - reminders at every step that there is something "wrong" with the person - assuming that at some point, the insurance company doesn't simply decide they don't qualify.
It isn't in the ICD-10 simply to facilitate insurance coverage. It is in the ICD-10 because it is considered a mental disorder. If is also considered a mental disorder in the DSM-V.
abakan
(1,819 posts)How could such a thing be enforced? When someone is driving down the street how would a traffic cop know what is in the drivers underwear, unless they were shown. I have encountered few people who drive around without their pants.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)No matter how you try to parse words, Putin is ultra right wing anti gay scum. After reading your own link, parsing words is all this is. Extremely transparent.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Initech
(100,108 posts)As in how many people can we lock up for the stupidest reason possible? Step1: find a scapegoat.