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redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 04:12 PM Jan 2015

The American state-religion is not Christianity. It is Nationalism.

In many ways Christianity has been dressed up to meet the needs of Nationalism, but Nationalism supercedes it. In America Christianity has to pay homage to Nationalism, not the other way around. That is why Pat Robertson is acceptable, but Fred Pheps or Jeremiah Wright are not.

American Nationalism has all the markings of a religion. It has its mythology, its "chosen people", its shrines, its saints (founding fathers, former presidents etc.), its martyrs (mostly soldiers) and its anti-blasphemy laws (don't believe me? try dancing at the Jefferson memorial). It absolves a person of any personal responsibility for crimes (torture, mass murder) committed in service of its deity (country).

It also ruthlessly punishes apostasy (ask Chelsea Manning).

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The American state-religion is not Christianity. It is Nationalism. (Original Post) redgreenandblue Jan 2015 OP
maybe humans will get into Earthism some day olddots Jan 2015 #1
humans should work together collectively if we are to survive Ramses Jan 2015 #24
In the 60s a Catholic priest (don't remember his name) wrote a book that talked about the jwirr Jan 2015 #2
John Courtney Murray, SJ? marym625 Jan 2015 #15
I don't think it was him - did he also writer some novels? jwirr Jan 2015 #22
Don't think so marym625 Jan 2015 #23
Googled for priest author of noves and found it. Andrew Greeley. More famous for his novels jwirr Jan 2015 #26
As soon as you said novel marym625 Jan 2015 #27
I think that a better argument could be made that contemporary Capitalism is the unofficial Agnosticsherbet Jan 2015 #3
Nationalism is suboridinate, imo, to Mammon, the one deity KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #4
+1 Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #9
Agreed n/t deutsey Jan 2015 #17
Truth spoken Ramses Jan 2015 #25
most interesting are theories of how religious elements were imported and fitted to nationalism MisterP Jan 2015 #5
Nationalism is subordinate to the Religion of Capitalism AZ Progressive Jan 2015 #6
There are over 41,000 Christian Sects,,,,, you sure do Cryptoad Jan 2015 #7
That's certainly true of the far-right both here and elsewhere - part of the us vs them mindset pampango Jan 2015 #8
So, when this Protestant got Engaged to his Jewish Wife some 21 years ago...... Burma Jones Jan 2015 #10
Is that Reform American Materialism or Orthodox American Materialism? branford Jan 2015 #20
It's not Nationalism - THe State-religion is stupidity Ferd Berfel Jan 2015 #11
Bill Maher is a big supporter of tribalism. cpwm17 Jan 2015 #14
He's funny, but he's not a nice fellow. nt delrem Jan 2015 #29
The thought processes are similar between religion and nationalism. cpwm17 Jan 2015 #12
AMEN! marym625 Jan 2015 #13
Nationalism,raised to the status of a religion daleo Jan 2015 #16
Silly me - I was going to suggest McDonalds /nt jimlup Jan 2015 #18
Nope, that spot is reserved for voodoo economics and corporate domination the nationalism is TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #19
Get with the program pinko ZX86 Jan 2015 #21
No it's money gopiscrap Jan 2015 #28
Actually the American State religion is Fascism ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #30
+1000 heaven05 Jan 2015 #31
Christian-Nationalism. They are both bound up together, manifest destiny is a good example. Exultant Democracy Jan 2015 #32
No, it's money BainsBane Jan 2015 #33
 

Ramses

(721 posts)
24. humans should work together collectively if we are to survive
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jan 2015

but yes you are right. We probably wont and that will be to our detriment.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
2. In the 60s a Catholic priest (don't remember his name) wrote a book that talked about the
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 04:24 PM
Jan 2015

religion of Americanism. I read it in a sociology class and he laid it out very clearly. I agree. We worship America - we are exceptional you know.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
15. John Courtney Murray, SJ?
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:37 PM
Jan 2015

We Hold These Truths: Catholic Reflections on the American Proposition

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
26. Googled for priest author of noves and found it. Andrew Greeley. More famous for his novels
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:04 AM
Jan 2015

than the book we used.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
27. As soon as you said novel
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:11 AM
Jan 2015

I knew who you meant. Loved him. His books were in my house all the time. A progressive, Chicago priest of irish decent, like the trifecta in my mom's book

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
4. Nationalism is suboridinate, imo, to Mammon, the one deity
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 04:34 PM
Jan 2015

above all others.

Back in the Middle Ages, the biggest structures in a village, town or city were the churches. Today, it's pretty much the banks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
5. most interesting are theories of how religious elements were imported and fitted to nationalism
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 04:58 PM
Jan 2015

it becomes a "religion" with itself as deity, a set of propositions accessible to everyone from Lincoln to Bush; it serves politics before it serves theology--it serves the vision of US history presented in The American Pageant or Golden Books, Great Men and the decent Americans behind them on one long upward climb, overcoming our flaws and forever increasing our freedom; even the mad Randbot economic arsonists we call Chicago Boys have had to gussy up their inhuman propositions in tricolor bunting with old "America's back" Ronnie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion

pampango

(24,692 posts)
8. That's certainly true of the far-right both here and elsewhere - part of the us vs them mindset
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:22 PM
Jan 2015
"nationalism" is the one common thread uniting far-right groups.

The racist movement is comprised of white supremacy groups such as the KKK, neoNazi groups such as the National Alliance and Skinheads groups such as the Hammerskin Nation. The groups comprising this movement are interested in preserving or restoring what they perceive as the appropriate and natural racial and cultural hierarchy, by enforcing social and political control over non-Aryans/nonwhites such as African Americans, Jews, and various immigrant communities. Therefore, their ideological foundations are based mainly on ideas of racism, segregation, xenophobia, and nativism (rejection of foreign norms and practices).

The antifederalist rationale is multifaceted, and includes the beliefs that the American political system and its proxies were hijacked by external forces interested in promoting a “New World Order” (NWO) in which the United States will be absorbed into the United Nations or another version of global government.

Lastly, the fundamentalist stream, which includes mainly Christian Identity groups such as the Aryan Nations, fuse religious fundamentalism with traditional white supremacy and racial tendencies, thus promoting ideas of nativism, exclusionism, and racial superiority through a unique interpretation of religious texts that focuses on division of humanity according to primordial attributes. More specifically, these groups maintain that a correct interpretation of the holy texts reveals that it is not the people of Israel but the Anglo-Saxons who are the chosen people and therefore assert their natural superior status.

If there is one ideological doctrine about which there is almost full consensus regarding its importance for understanding the far-right worldview, it is that of nationalism. Historically, the literature on nationalism has taken diverse directions and is extremely rich, but in its varying guises it usually refers to the association between ethnic, cultural and/or linguistic identity and political expression, or more simply put, the convergence of a cultural framework with a political entity.

In the context of the far-right worldview, nationalism takes an extreme form of full convergence between one polity or territory and one ethnic or national collective. Two elements are required for the fulfillment of this version of the nationalist doctrine. The first is that of internal homogenization, i.e., the aspiration that all residents or citizens of the polity will share the same national origin and ethnic characteristics. The second is the element of external exclusiveness, the aspiration that all individuals belonging to a specific national or ethnic group will reside in the homeland.

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf

Burma Jones

(11,760 posts)
10. So, when this Protestant got Engaged to his Jewish Wife some 21 years ago......
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:29 PM
Jan 2015

People asked, "What Religion are you going to raise your kids?"

To which I replied, "the real religion in the USA, American Materialism"

Our Troops are not defending our shores, they're defending our "way of life"...........And that's from their own mouths


We're basically raising our children Jewish/Quaker/Presbyterian with a serious disdain for commercial speech, jingoism and stupid.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
20. Is that Reform American Materialism or Orthodox American Materialism?
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 10:53 PM
Jan 2015

I think unions and voting Democrat might still Kosher under Reform.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
14. Bill Maher is a big supporter of tribalism.
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:28 PM
Jan 2015

His hatred of folks with different religious beliefs than he has is just more of his tribalism.

He supports war against the proper victims. BEFORE the Iraq War he said he didn't care if we went in, and he said that to his liberal audience that was against the war.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
12. The thought processes are similar between religion and nationalism.
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:05 PM
Jan 2015

They both usually requires a certain amount of brain washing from an early age. Nationalism is much more dangerous, though.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
19. Nope, that spot is reserved for voodoo economics and corporate domination the nationalism is
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 10:46 PM
Jan 2015

snake oil to sell the rubes. The ones running the show would use the constitution as a cum rag, then toilet paper, then pine a birdcage with it.

They eagerly will poison the waters and salt the earth for a buck or two.

They would enslave or kill the population without a thought.

They couldn't give a shit about this nation in any way even if they ate a whole pallet of Ex-Lax.

 

ChosenUnWisely

(588 posts)
30. Actually the American State religion is Fascism
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:51 AM
Jan 2015

and has been for a very long time now.

Folks just don't want to admit the truth that America is a fascist nation.

But that is just my opinion based upon traveling to many countries all over the world, serving in the US military and looking critically at America from the outside.



Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
32. Christian-Nationalism. They are both bound up together, manifest destiny is a good example.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:47 PM
Jan 2015

We are a great nation because god said so, which means whatever we do is great.

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