Guantanamo Bay staff sergeant claims three men believed to have committed suicide were actually tort

[JonLP24]

tortured to death' is the rest of the headline

Staff Sgt. Joseph Hickman, a Marine veteran who reenlisted in the Maryland National Guard after 9/11, contradicts the military version of events in his new book, 'Murder at Camp Delta: A Staff Sergeant’s Pursuit of the Truth About Guantanamo Bay.'

It was murder.

A staff sergeant at Guantanamo Bay claims to have solved one of the military prison’s greatest mysteries: Three men the Pentagon says killed themselves were actually tortured to death by the CIA.

The official government line was that Yasser Talal al-Zahrani of Yemen, and Salah Ahmed al-Salami and Mani Shaman al-Utaybi, both of Saudi Arabia, killed themselves in 2006 in a suicide pact.

Rear Adm. Harry Harris, the commander of the Joint Task Force Guantanamo, called the deaths “an asymmetric warfare committed against us.” The men were said to have hanged themselves.

Staff Sgt. Joseph Hickman, a Marine veteran who reenlisted in the Maryland National Guard after 9/11, contradicts the military version of events in his new book, “Murder at Camp Delta: A Staff Sergeant’s Pursuit of the Truth About Guantanamo Bay.” And he paints a sinister picture of the government’s use of the prison as a “battle lab” for cruelly inventive, experimental torture tactics.

“It is my informed opinion that there were three wrongful deaths at Gitmo on June 9, 2006, while I was on duty,” Hickman wrote.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/guantanamo-bay-sergeant-claims-cia-tortured-3-men-death-article-1.2082610

[rhett o rick]

1. I wish the president would at least say he doesn't approve. His silence about torture is deafening.

And plez don't give him credit for that speech he gave where he tried to soft-sell torture.

[Fred Sanders]

2. You are wrong.

[rhett o rick]

3. I am often wrong, can you be more specific? nm

[BrotherIvan]

4. You said something bad about Obama

[sibelian]

5. Which is wrong, because Obama is nice.

Nobody seems to get this. His niceness.

[rhett o rick]

6. He does seem to be nice and that should be good, but being nice to war criminals isn't

good. Seems like some are ok with letting war crimes go unpunished if we just don't criticize the President.

[sibelian]

8. Um I was attempting a kind of "damning with faint praise" thing there.

with ya, bud

[rhett o rick]

10. I understood. My comment was just a statement and not aimed at you.

[sibelian]

15. ha!

[QC]

38. He's very fetching in his swimsuit, too.

People too often forget that.

[Scuba]

49. And his dogs are real cuties.

[QC]

52. Especially when Bo wears a bandanna!

That makes me swoooooooooooooooon!!!

[cwydro]

57. I'm partial to the tan suit.

[QC]

58. LOL

[treestar]

7. Talk about automatically believing something because you want to

Can we at least look at this person's assertions for whether or not they are true? Geez.

[whatchamacallit]

17. Right, like we didn't "torture some folks"

Take off the blinders

[treestar]

18. That proves nothing about this particular assertion.

[whatchamacallit]

19. "Just because you club a seal, doesn't necessarily mean it will die"

It's a rare incredulity that finds it hard to believe torture could result in death.

[treestar]

20. You are assuming the assertion is true

because you want to. Maybe they committed suicide. But this person says they were tortured to death and he must be right, of course, because that's what you want to be true.

[whatchamacallit]

21. You're assuming the assertion is untrue

because you want to. The guy who was there is wrong and internet dude #323747289 is right.

[treestar]

33. No, I'm not.

I don't know how it is. I am commenting on the other posters immediately and automatically believing it.

[whatchamacallit]

37. Or your immediately not believing it n/t

[treestar]

41. I did not say I did not believe it

I said I would at least look at the facts first.

[Rex]

45. Of course, funny that one comes in here pissed off about someone maybe telling the truth

as the fact that they were there.

I hear you, I am so sick of armchair warriors sitting safely behind their keyboard telling others what to believe or not. Pathetic, but so common for a few around here it is as predictable as the sun rising and setting.

They ALWAYS take the governments side and why? Yeah you know why.

[BillZBubb]

22. How can we ever find the truth?

Everything is protected by secrecy laws and whistleblowers like Snowden who try to get the truth out are made enemies of the state. And even so-called liberals go along with that.

It is not to be of a leap to suspect the Sargent is telling the truth given the litany of lies the government has told about torture.

[treestar]

34. Therefore we have to believe the worst?

[JonLP24]

39. Believe whatever people want to believe in

Personally they have a history have torturing and lying about its existence but the claim that group suicide was "warfare" is an outrageous claim.

My point is what people believe doesn't change the reality of what took place.

[Rex]

46. And yet here you are...always waiting to believe the best if it involves the government.

Pathetic.

[barbtries]

30. to my mind,

even if they did kill themselves they still may have been tortured to death. but i don't think this book would have been published just on the say so of one man, at least i hope so

[JonLP24]

40. Ann Coulter tells outrageous lies for book sales

I'm sure finding a publisher would eventually come across willing to do so but I think the implication of a "book" means he uses more than 1 page to back up his claims.

[Autumn]

23. Obviously the Sargent is not one of them "patriot folks" he's lying

because... Obama?

[JDPriestly]

27. When our government goes to so much trouble to keep what happens at Guantanamos and other

similar prison camps secret and then someone who was there and commended for leadership while there comes out and purports to reveal a truth about one of the secrets and that revelation clarifies or explains why the activities at the prison camp might be kept secret, then I am inclined to believe that person who was there and was commended for leadership, who has done some research, and who, weighing the potential loss of reputation and trust that his lying would cost him against the relief and sense of having performed a moral duty that telling the truth would do him, I am inclined to believe the person who was there and was commended for leadership while there and now speaks. I am inclined ot believe him.

Now I could be wrong in believing him. He could have made the whole thing up. Maybe the guys did stuff cloths in their mouths, etc. and died from the hunger strike. Hopefully, the autopsies will be published, and the medical personnel who performed the autopsies will come forward and the whole story will be proved to be a lie and all well be well in America, Home of the Free, Land of the Brave.

I hope this will have a happy ending. Don't you.

[rhett o rick]

29. I find the allegation that these prisoners committed suicide incredulous.

They are probably the most closely controlled prisoners in the world.

[JonLP24]

31. Especially when they label group suicide an organized attack against them

That kind of an assertion, where you can't ask why they committed suicide, should be treated with a heavy dose of skepticism.

[treestar]

36. That all sounds very general though

The facts of this case don't matter, simple generalities do. The government is always lying, because it did in some cases.

[rhett o rick]

28. I was speaking in general about torture and the President's refusal to

condemn what happened in the last decade. As far as believing this story, I tend to believe those that dare to speak out against authority while others refuse to believe anyone that speaks to authority. Whistle-blowers are such a pain in the ass to those that don't want to hear about transgressions of authority. And this case happened during the Bush years.

[treestar]

35. that's all it takes?

If I speak out against authority, anything I say is automatically believable?

[rhett o rick]

43. When authority is a big bully, I tend to trust those that speak out against them.

Granted there may be a kook now and then but most that dare to speak truth to authority are heroes. It's always easier to back the bully. We all saw that on the playground. The bully, with a posse behind him, would pick on someone smaller or seen as weaker. Those with integrity stood up for the person getting picked on and stood up to the bully (authority) and those that stood behind the bully were cowards.

It's kinda like David and Goliath. Whistle-blowers are David and the NSA/CIA Deep State is Goliath. Shame on those that back the Deep State.

[JonLP24]

44. I agree

The article on the empath-sociopath-apath triangle best describes how I view this one could be as well as many others.

Many sociopaths wreak havoc in a covert way, so that their underlying condition remains hidden for years. They can possess a superficial charm, and this diverts attention from disturbing aspects of their nature.

<snip>

The apath. We call those who collude in the sport of the sociopath apathetic, or apaths. In this situation, it means a lack of concern or being indifferent to the targeted person.
We have highlighted the importance of seeing the problem for what it is via the tale of the Emperor’s New Clothes, which represents the collective denial and double standards which are often a feature of social life. The apath in this context is someone who is willing to be blind: ie, not to see that the emperor/empress is naked.

Apaths are an integral part of the sociopath’s arsenal and contribute to sociopathic abuse. Sociopaths have an uncanny knack of knowing who will assist them in bringing down the person they are targeting. It is not necessarily easy to identify an apath; in other circumstances, an apath can show ample empathy and concern for others – just not in this case. The one attribute an apath must have is a link to the target.

<snip>
The empath. Often, the person targeted by the sociopath is an empath. Empaths are ordinary people who are highly perceptive and insightful and belong to the 40% of human beings who sense when something’s not right, who respond to their gut instinct. In The Emperor’s New Clothes, the empath is the boy who mentions the unmentionable: that there are no clothes.

http://www.addictiontoday.org/addictiontoday/2013/10/empathy-trap-sociopath-triangle.html

If the claims are true, then the article fits because group suicide would be labeled "warfare" and make themselves appear to be the victim when in reality they're true perpetrators. Whistleblowers are how I view the empaths while CIA/NSA are the sociopaths (revealed conspiracies back up this claim) while those that back the Deep State are the apaths.

[heaven05]

25. BS!!!!!!

[rhett o rick]

42. Your argument is lacking substance. Are you ok with the normalization of torture?

Maybe tell the rest of the world that it's ok if we do it?

[heaven05]

53. No, torture IS barbaric

if anyone employs it. My argument mainly is with the war criminals who implemented 'gitmo' and the dark sites. Obama followed a protocol in not pointing out negatives of a prior POTUS, no matter how heinous, that all of the POTUS have employed in my time on this planet. All this shit of trying to make Obama the bad guy because he didn't come into office and send GWdummie and cheney to the Hague is BS.

[rhett o rick]

54. I don't agree that the new president should use "tradition" to allow war crimes to go unpunished.

But at the very least he should condemn the actions. He should tell the world that we don't approve. The country should decide on whether we condone torture. If nothing is done, torture will be a way of life from here forward. It will be normalized. Someone should decide whether those documents that legitimized torture are still good or not.

Pretending that nothing happened is BS.

[heaven05]

55. let's hope

Last edited Tue Jan 20, 2015, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

that the 'right thing' is done......by those who have the influence to get the right thing done. When it comes to the wrong perpetrated by the RW leaders that had five years to sate their lust for killing, torturing, maiming and destroying innocent and alleged enemies of this nation, no apology by anyone, to me, seems to be enough to ever rectify the moral wrong this nation's leaders have done. The war in Iraq was perpetrated on a lie, thousands of innocents died for nothing and we have a hundred thousand plus vets in our VA hospitals with life altering wounds. We have 10thousand men and women under arms DEAD from the two bushco/PNAC adventures. Those people and the powers behind them should be apologizing to the world for the harm and continuing grief birthed by them in the middle east.

I hope my President is able to break with 'tradition' and speak up in a manner such as you desire. Yet the real culprits of these imperialistic invasions are not even mentioned, so I wonder. I can never pretend, IF that is your implication, that nothing was/is wrong with all this death and destruction perpetrated in Iraq and Afghanistan by the RW of this country with democratic politicians help. America must atone by changing direction. Yet the Nov 4, 2014 vote/election and this current "Sniper" craze proves to me that americans, by and large, enjoy our current military preeminence and the fear it instills in our targets. This current turn to the fascist right is the problem, not the lack of apology by the current POTUS. You're trying, it seems to me, to simplify a very involved policy being pursued by the powers that govern us to turn us into a fascist, hero hungering populace of sheep. Tell it to the people. All torture and war should be condemned and outlawed. I DON'T count on any politician making that a reality anytime soon.

I've been there, done that. Nothing heroic about it.

[rhett o rick]

56. I feel that the American people need to know that Democrats don't condone and in fact

condemn it. We must show the American people that Democrats (other than those DINO's that bowed before King George) are different than torturing Republicans. So far Pres Obama has failed.

[rhett o rick]

9. The United States, after WW II, did more than any other nation to set standards

to abolish torture and prisoner abuse. During the Bush administration, the US became the first country ever to authorize violations of the Geneva Convention. We were the custodian of that treaty. While those Republicans responsible are clearly monsters, Democrats did very little to try to reign them in. Now we have a Democratic president who IMO should, at the minimum, condemn what these monsters did. How many times do you water-board someone before you figure out it isn't effective in gaining more information?

We need to undo the damage done by Bush/Cheney.

[wavesofeuphoria]

11. !!! +1

[BumRushDaShow]

12. "The United States, after WW II, did more than any other nation to set standards"

except when it came to black or other minority people.

[link: http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm|U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee]
Forced sterilization
Prisoner experimentation
And other atrocities

This didn't start with Shrub and Darth. The U.S. has always been a monster with its own citizens... Except we all know that blacks, other minorities, and the disabled aren't counted as "people" for whom these so-called treaties would apply.

[heaven05]

26. +1000

[90-percent]

16. Answer

" How many times do you water-board someone before you figure out it isn't effective in gaining more information? "

In Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's case, the number of times before you figure out it isn't effective is 183.

-90% Jimmy

[KingCharlemagne]

47. Grammar Nazi here: "Democrats did very little to try to rein them in" (not 'reign them in'). 'Reign'

means 'to rule,' whereas 'rein' refers literally to the leather restraint used on a horse or other beast of burden and metaphorically to any attempt to restrain or check the influence of someone or something.

One could say, "While Republicans reigned, Democrats did very little to rein them in."

Pedantic itch scratched, now back to regular programming

[rhett o rick]

48. Hey I felt I did good to not write "rained". Thanks for the correction. It's the only

way I'll learn. Not that I am guaranteeing that I won't do it again.

[MisterP]

13. "asymmetric warfare committed against us"?!

[Scuba]

50. That's one of those unknown unknowns.

[BillZBubb]

24. It would not surprise me if this were true.

But we'll never really know. The secrecy and deception are too deep.

[Scuba]

51. Color me sanctimonious.