The US Army Is Looking To Develop A Next-Generation Pistol

[xchrom]

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-armys-next-generation-pistol-2015-1


A sailor picks up an M9 pistol from the deck at the start of a small-arms qualifying shoot on July 7, 2012.

US Army weapons officials will not evaluate an improved version of the service's Cold War-era 9mm pistol, choosing instead to search for a more modern soldier sidearm.

In early December, Beretta USA, the maker of the U.S. military's M9 pistol for 30 years, submitted its modernized M9A3 as a possible alternative to the Army's Modular Handgun System program — an effort to replace the M9 with a more powerful, state-of-the-art pistol.

The improved M9 features new sights, a rail for mounting lights and accessories, better ergonomics and improved reliability, Beretta USA officials said.

But by late December, it was all over for Beretta's engineering change proposal for the M9. The Army's Configuration Control Board decided not to evaluate the M9A3, according to a source familiar with the decision.



Read more: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/01/09/army-rejects-m9a3-proposal-opts-for-new-pistol.html#ixzz3OQGvd8Tx

[Fred Sanders]

1. What is there to modernize? Pull trigger, bullet comes out of steel barrel. Hard to improve on that.

[NightWatcher]

3. They need something new so that they can issue it to everyone and stick us with the bill

But I have to agree with others Beretta's suck. I still have a couple 1911's, that way if you run out of bullets you can throw the thing at the bad guy.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. My husband never liked the M9, said it had no stopping power.

[Fred Sanders]

6. "Stopping fire". Not lethal enough for those that say guns are like knives and forks? That is the

complaint? A chunk of metal coming at your body at light speed is plenty enough stopping fire for most folks.

Hilarious.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. Do you have any familiarity with weapons and conflict besides TV?

You sound as if you also expect people to harmlessly shoot the weapon from an assailant's hand but they refuse to do so out of some moral failing.

[Fred Sanders]

8. Strawman alert on the thread, it is like they have achieved self-replication abilities.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. You plainly said a bullet was enough stopping power. People who know better than you through

experience say otherwise. That's not a straw man, that is their experience trumping your ignorance and the fact your ignorance drew multiple retorts doesn't diminish the extent of your ignorance.

[Fred Sanders]

16. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but any gun will kill me.

[GGJohn]

22. So, you ever have anything of substance to add to conversations?

Last edited Sat Jan 10, 2015, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Or is it just insults?
When I first entered the Army, Helicopter pilots were issued the 1911 .45 as part of our survival kit, later we were issued the Barretta M9, which we all hated due to it's lack of stopping power compared to the 1911.
I have no problem with the Military looking to upgrade to a more efficient handgun.

[Duckhunter935]

9. Not really

the 45 caliber is much better than the 9 mil, but you give up on number of rounds as the old 1911 only had 7 and the 9 Mil can do twice that.

[Recursion]

10. And the 45 isn't compatible with NATO ammunition

So it brings up a lot of supply chain problems. I think like it or not we're stuck with the current caliber.

[Duckhunter935]

12. I agree with that nt

[NutmegYankee]

11. Unlike TV, a person can be shot multiple times (particularly by 9mm) and still keep fighting.

They die a few minutes later from blood loss and associated trauma, but they can still fight back in the meantime. Because of that, they remain a danger to the soldiers trying to stop them. People think bullets knock a person down, but in reality they often just punch straight through losing little energy. Even if the bullet stops in the target, the energy of impact is only equal at most to the recoil of the gun on the other soldier. Newton's Third law - every reaction has an opposite and equal reaction.

The classic colt .45, the 1911, was created because we were fighting Muslim insurgents in the Southern Philippines and they would charge, be hit multiple times with the .38 revolver, and still run into our troops and stab them before dying. The large caliber round of the .45 on the other hand caused so much trauma and shock that the insurgents would often drop to the ground. We abandoned it because it's magazine was limited to 8 rounds and it had a large recoil.

[Recursion]

18. About 5% of gunshots are fatal, generally (nt)

[Fred Sanders]

20. 20 bullets from a perfectly legal high capacity mag makes it 110%, if my math is right.......

And being gravely injured by a chunk of high velocity metal, perhaps paralyzed, is no fun, either.

[branford]

24. Sigh . . . "Stopping fire?" "Light Speed?"

Are you even really trying anymore, or do firearms cause you such blind rage and revulsion that you don't even bothering reading the entirety of the posts you're purportedly responding to and/or you simply post knee-jerk anti-gun nonsense, regardless of the topic (military sidearms), falsely believing you're witty or always preaching to the choir? At least you've refrained from using the old "evil NRA talking points" insult.

First, do you actually have any knowledge concerning the mechanics and physics of firearms, the effects of different calibers on human biology, intended use on the battlefield (or anywhere else), and basic tactics?

I can assure you that bullets do not travel anywhere near light speed, and adversaries shot with a 9mm bullet, even multiple times, often survive, and when the wounds are ultimately lethal, the individual still often presents a threat to the soldier (or law enforcement officer, or citizen, etc.) for sufficient time for them to still be a significant threat. Various other factors besides caliber also determine the appropriateness of particular sidearm, including accuracy, weight, ergonomics, cost, ability to take accessories and their availability, type of safety mechanism, etc. One gun does not fit all battlefield, law enforcement, security, self-defense, hunting or sporting circumstances, and parties often have balance these many factors. It's a lot more complicated than "pull trigger, bullet comes out of steel barrel," particularly when it comes to the safety of our soldiers on the battlefield.

For example, if you're as interested in the topic as you claim, you might be interested in reading how and why the FBI moved from .38 to 10mm sidearms, or review some of the more popular benefits and disadvantages of different pistols for law enforcement and the military.

http://www.pointshooting.com/1a10mm.htm

http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/popular-guns-for-law-enforcement/

[Logical]

23. Really? nt

[Glassunion]

2. Good

Never liked the Baretta

[Taitertots]

4. Oh great, another multi-billion dollar grift on the American people.

Will this one be better than the one they had 100+ years ago (1911)?

Or is this just more weaponized Keynesianism.

[Paladin]

19. Now, now. Look how happy it's made our resident Gun Enthusiasts. (nt)

[hatrack]

13. And they'll cost $154,000 per weapon, and be ready by the year 2039

.

[aikoaiko]

14. 10mm always seem to me to be the ideal caliber for a combat pistol.

There aren't many pistols to actually choose from, but they could do a lot worse than to adopt the G20.

I think the lack of manual safety would worry the decision makers.

[Recursion]

21. Lack of a manual safety would obsolete all weapons handling protocols

So, it would surprise me if they did that.

[NBachers]

17. The F-22 cRaptor, the cLittoral Ship, and soon the Double-Barrel Attack Gun

Double-Barrel Attack Gun, known for it's acronym, D-BAG