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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't like where the talking heads in the US ...
are taking this French tragedy ...
3 different talking heads were directly blaming the internet for radicalization and stopping just short of calling for government censorship of the internet.
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Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)
underpants
(182,811 posts)
Peacetrain
(22,877 posts)If someone or some group is calling for the murder of someone.. there is a limit, someones freedom of speech ends when it calls for my or someone elses murder.... because there are those who are so easily manipulated that they will do that..
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)test of intent, imminence, and likelihood as set forth in Brandenburg v. Ohio.
Or are you suggesting something more?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Isn't it becoming clear that "belittling"/"satirizing" another's religion is "inciting or producing imminent lawlessness"?
(No ... I am not condoning killing.)
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)group may shoot up the office if you publish a cartoon that you know will offend them does not mean you intend that result).
Likelihood? I will give you that one.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but, in arguendo, how many times do we have to experience the result before intent is imputed?
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)happen is entailed in the likelihood prong, not the intent prong.
It is likely that if I tell my racist BIL that the President was not born in Kenya, it is likely that he will call me a 'loony leftie' and give me a wedgie. Do I intend for him to give me a wedgie? No.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)telling your racist BIL that the President was not born in Kenya, he calls you a 'loony leftie' and gives you a wedgie, over time, it can be argued that you intended for him to give you a wedgie..
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)gives me wedgies 1 out of 200 times, would I then be 'intending' to get the wedgie as opposed to 'intending' to educate my BIL?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)BTW ... thank you for allowing me to "talk" through this.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)
kydo
(2,679 posts)For both the forewarned knowledge about wedgies and racist Bill O Really. And, but more important for the reminder on how civilized people normally speak to each other instead of what passes for normal but is generally yelling at and putting people down.
Thank you. 
I tip my hat to both of you 
job well done. 
bemildred
(90,061 posts)A pleasure to read.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)got through the Brandenburg gate to cross the Rubicon? Or what?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)No, they didn't incite anyone to murder.
And I have a strong hunch that the nutjob Muslim fundamentalists who murdered would have found another target.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)is arguable.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)thought that "incitement to murder," means persuading someone who agrees with your point of view to murder.
Ex: A member of the KKK incites someone to murder a black person because he hates black folks. To me...that's incitement.
But, if the black person kills a white person because he is angry at the speech of the KKK, is that "incitement to murder?"
I hope you don't mind the example, but it was the best one I could think of.
Peace.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I looked up the definition ... and you are correct.
randys1
(16,286 posts)and said "I am a man as equal as you"
We both know this infuriates the teaparty racist piece of shit, but if he then reacts violently to this statement of fact from you and attacks you, did you incite that violence?
The cartoons were not statements of fact at all, that isnt my point, but trying to in anyway justify not the murders, as you say, but justify that a reasonable person might respond with violence if incited in some way...
I think any reaction of violence (as much as we all feel it sometimes when dealing with racist pieces of shit) is not only not allowed and justified, but speech simply cant be allowed to be considered incitement to violence or we will never get to the end of where that can lead us.
But it is worth discussing, for sure.
valerief
(53,235 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)(Note, I am not condoning the killing)
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)That sounds like an argument made by the antis at ahearing when a Planned parenthood clinic was going to start also offering abortions.
"If you have abortions, we will protest and disrupt the neighborhood, which will be bad for the neighbors, so don't do them".
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)It's probably poverty, discrimination, lack of employment and opportunities for Muslim communities in many places in Europe. Large numbers of angry young men with no prospects and a lot of resentment provide a fertile breeding ground for radicalisation.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)and left it with a bunch of angry, oppressed, unemployed people surrounded by craters.
It's like Miracle-Gro for extremism.
dembotoz
(16,806 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and these groups of people will become just as radicalized, whether it be in prison, or on the internet or the street corner.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)There are little job prospects for a heavily increasing population.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)The internet symbolizes freedom, where the masses can talk to each other and organize. Of course they want to take that away from us. The talking heads aren't expressing their own views, they're paid shills for the unseen and powerful.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)has guided us through the years. Hubert H.Humphrey oft stated this,empty belly equals empty head,full belly equals to full head. Think about it.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)"Two average men eat their average meal
but Destiny waits at their table.
One is served gruel while the other chews veal
but they're both spoon-fed lies from the cradle."
Sorry, you just reminded me of my favorite Skyclad song
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Wealthy people do crazy and violent things. And their bellies are quite full.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)we had a very vibrant middle class. Yes,we had a sliver spoon segment all be it much smaller and more attuned to the wants and needs of our Country,and there was a few that were the I got mine screw you crowd. The major thing is most people were first or second generation of the Great Depreciation and people plain an simple cared for each other. Nixon and Reagan pretty much blew that away with their subtle hate and austerity policies.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Context is everything, I suppose.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Same reason. That's why we need net neutrality, so these greedy weasels can't mess with it in pursuit of their self-interest.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)be the so called free press as a need for a controlled internet to save us for those Muslim Terrorists. So much Bull Crap. All this garbage will stop when the Palestinian issues is settled.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)
National Hero
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)FCC Chief Hints He'll Enact Obama's Net Neutrality Plan
The move, a reversal from last year's proposal, would face fierce resistance from Internet providers and Republicans.
Comcast, owner of MSNBC, has been lobbying heavily behind the scenes against classifying internet service as a utility. Despite their commercials extolling net neutrality, they can't be pleased.
malaise
(269,005 posts)and discussion they would puke while changing the remote
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)But it is no more to blame that standing around with a group on a street corner or meeting in a coffee shop or diner. If people are prone to this, it will happen.
