New U.S. Stealth Jet Can’t Fire Its Gun Until 2019

[KeepItReal]

The Pentagon’s newest stealth jet, the nearly $400 billion Joint Strike Fighter, won’t be able to fire its gun during operational missions until 2019, three to four years after it becomes operational.

Even though the Joint Strike Fighter, or F-35, is supposed to join frontline U.S. Marine Corps fighter squadrons next year and Air Force units in 2016, the jet’s software does not yet have the ability to shoot its 25mm cannon. But even when the jet will be able to shoot its gun, the F-35 barely carries enough ammunition to make the weapon useful.

...

The Navy and Marine Corps versions of the F-35 have differing configurations and rely on an external gun pod. The software won’t be ready for those jets for years, either. And while that gun-pod version for the Navy and Marines carries slightly more ammo, with 220 rounds, some in the military are complaining that it’s not enough. “So, about good for one tactical burst,” the first Air Force official said. “Hope you don’t miss.”

...

The lack of a gun is not likely to be a major problem for close-in air-to-air dogfights against other jets. Part of the problem is that the F-35—which is less maneuverable than contemporary enemy fighters like the Russian Sukhoi Su-30 Flanker—is not likely to survive such a close-in skirmish. “The jet can’t really turn anyway, so that is a bit of a moot point,” said one Air Force fighter pilot.

Here's the article: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/31/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-fire-its-gun-until-2019.html

[forsaken mortal]

1. PAK-FA

The USAF doesn't seem to be a big believer in dog-fighting scenarios anymore, thinking that most encounters will be beyond visual range. The Russians don't hold that view and are designing their PAK-FA stealth jet to be very maneuverable and well-armed with a 30mm cannon for close air to air fighting. The PAK-FA will probably chew the F-35 to pieces should it get within visual range of it.

[KeepItReal]

2. I'm sure aerial foes of the F-35 will simply stay out of gun range...out of respect.

All these design decisions for the F-35 make it sound like a Jack of No Trades, Master of None.

The only things within its stealth capabilities are light strikes in undefended airspace (with 2 internal bombs) or beyond visual range air-to-air engagements (with 2 internal AMRAAMs). The dang thing can't even carry internal short-range missiles?!?

[Recursion]

4. Better yet! Accelerating to the MACH 1.6 literally uses the entire fuel tank

That's it's rated "top speed", not because it can't aerodynamically go faster than that, but because it requires its entire fuel load to get there.

[TheMightyFavog]

10. It's the F-4 Phantom all over again.

It took losses from North Vietnamese MiG 17s, MiG 19s, and MiG-21s to convince TPTB that maybe, just maybe the Double Ugly needed some sort of gun...

[tammywammy]

11. According to this article...

The gun is on schedule to be delivered in 2017 not 2019. And while the B variant goes into initial operating capability sometime this year, they have back up weapons.

I think this is more of a pissing contest between the tradition gun CAS guys and the ones that want to use more precision guided weapons.

Since 2005, DellaVedova said, the GAU-22 was planned to go operational with the block 3F software. That software is scheduled to go online in 2017, with low-rate initial production lot 9.

"Delivering the gun capability in 3F software is well known to the military services, International Partners and our foreign military sales (FMS) customers," DellaVedova said. "That has always been the stated requirement and plan and it hasn't varied since the technical baseline review in 2010."

***********

In the meantime, the F-35 will conduct close-air support (CAS) operations with a mix of air-to-ground precision weapons, including the AMRAAM, JDAM and GBU-12. Maj. Gen. Jay Silveria, who commands the USAF Warfare Center at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, and is developing tactics for the jet, told reporters in a December interview that the plane will rely much more on its precision guided munitions (PGMs) than the gun for close air support.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2015/01/07/f35-gun-on-track/21401907/

[TheMightyFavog]

14. The AMRAAM is an air-to -ground weapon?

Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile

[Recursion]

3. Why are all of our big-ticket systems so under-armed?

The Osprey? It has one gun, that only fires backwards, and only when the door is open.

The LCS? Two machine guns that don't swivel to cover 360 degrees (meaning they're vulnerable to another Cole-style attack).

The LCAC replacement? No guns whatsoever (this is the hovercraft that's supposed to be used in the next Omaha-beach type scenario -- I know, it's crazy, Marines expecting their landing craft to be able to return fire, and all)

[KeepItReal]

6. The more you have to buy....you see?

Sounds like the F-35 has to operate in packs to achieve the same close air support results that a single A-10 Warthog or F-15E Strike Eagle could achieve.

Pretty damn ingenious of Lockheed Martin.

[Adrahil]

13. The V-22 replaced the CH-46.... which carried no guns. n/t

[EX500rider]

16. "The Osprey? It has one gun, that only fires backwards"

Actually the Marines started adding a three-barrel 7.62mm GAU-17 machine-gun turret (DWS/Interim Defensive Weapons System) to their Osprey's back in 2011- the DWS can swivel completely (360 degrees)

and now U.S. SOCOM (Special Operations Command) is arming its V-22 tilt-rotor transports with more weapons, all of them forward firing and, along with temporary armor panels, meant to temporarily turn a V-22 into a gunship as needed. Tests are being performed to see if the V-22 can carry and launch guided missiles. SOCOM has already obtained a GAU-2B machine-gun fitted to the bottom of a V-22 as part of the Universal Turret System (UTS) for Helicopters. Plans for arming the V-22 have always been an option and since 2007 the marines and SOCOM have been developing weapons for use on their V-22s. The main purpose for this is to give V-22s just enough firepower to clear the landing zone long enough to land, unload and get away.

http://strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/20150117.aspx

[sir pball]

5. Good god. We'd be better off just putting the F-22 back into production.

Yeah, that was a hideously overpriced shitshow too, but at least it's a finished product, which is supposedly also the best fighter in the air today...not only can it fire its gun but it can actually outmaneuver the competition!

[KeepItReal]

7. I'm with you on that. Air Force should just buy more F-22s.

The Navy and Marines don't have an alternative, so they are stuck with this F-35 POS.

[sir pball]

8. Probably be cheaper to develop a -22N

Beef up the undercarriage, slap a tailhook on and Robert's your mother's brother. Yes, I know it's more involved than that, but realistically it wouldn't surprise me if it still cost less than finishing the 35 program.

Export sales would be an issue, but we could just let the interested foreign markets pay for it.

[Adrahil]

12. Yeah, making a jet carrier suitable takes a bit more than that. n/t

[EX500rider]

9. Not really a big deal for air-to-air..

The last USAF air-to-air gun kill happened in July 1968. (Crusader vs MiG-17)