Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Takket

(21,620 posts)
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 08:58 AM Jan 2015

How much harder do the Rich work?

I hear time and again from Rethugs that if people work hard they should not have to surrender their money to those that don't work hard. So how much harder do the rich work?

consider someone who makes $1 million per year. also consider a person making minimum wage ($7.25 per hour which equates to $15080 per year. Granted that is before any deductions for taxes, health care, etc). Assume the person making minimum wage needs welfare/food stamps as well because, we all know, you can't live on minimum wage. Let's say this person's income from paychecks and government benefits totals $40000 per year.

Assume the person making $1 million has a masters degree he had to go to school for and has paid off all his student debts.

At 1 million vs. $40000, the millionaire is bringing home 25 times the pay of the person making $40000. Do you think, when summing up the hours worked, time/grades to acquire a degree, the physical demands of the job, and the skills required to perform the job, that the millionaire works 25 times harder? Does someone making a billion dollars put in 250 times the effort of the minimum wager? Keep in mind hours worked is a variable with a maximum limit. Even if you only sleep 4 hours a day you can only work 20 hours per day, and somehow I doubt the typical billionaire/millionaire isn't finding time to relax in Maui or on the golf course....

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
1. Watching the stock market is not hard labor
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 09:17 AM
Jan 2015

Many rich people do not work at all, they just invest their money and watch those investments grow.

Many minimum wage earners on the other hand work their asses off and still live in poverty.

A person's income is not as closely tied to how hard they work as the right-wing tries to tell you it is.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
2. The other canard is that they take more risks
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 09:24 AM
Jan 2015

But when you watch CEO after CEO get golden parachutes after running their companies into the ground, well, that doesn't really seem to be the case.

I'm a capitalist - I believe that a well regulated capitalism is the best economic system (I know there are many who disagree with me). But the key words are well regulated, because without regulation capitalists act like that kid who decides to eat all of his halloween candy as quickly as possible and is surprised when he gets a tummy ache.

Unfortunately while our CEOs and Captains of Industry are eating a hell of a lot of candy, they are passing on the tummy ache to us.

Bryant

Lancero

(3,011 posts)
5. You're forgetting that the kid would likely get diarrhea from that as well.
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:00 AM
Jan 2015

Guess what the CEO's and CoI's are also doing?

That's right - Shitting all over the workers.

marmar

(77,088 posts)
8. Unfortunately, well-regulated capitalism is a chimera ......
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jan 2015

..... it ain't never gonna happen.

And capitalism depends on unlimited growth and resource extraction. The Earth is saying "no mas".


el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
11. Well clearly I disagree
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:25 AM
Jan 2015

But it's not like the other economic systems have worked much better environmentally.

I do consider much of Europe to be a model for well regulated capitalism, although some hold them to be socialist rather than capitalist.

Bryant

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
3. Many execs
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 09:51 AM
Jan 2015

routinely put in very long hours--12, 15 hours/day is not unusual. In addition, many of them have to be available 24/hours per day to resolve any big problems that may occur while they aren't in the office. It's a choice they make that many others would not make. They miss out on a whole lot of life because of their dedication to their jobs.

They also put up with a whole lot of crap that most people wouldn't want to deal with. My dh's company had a huge project that wasn't going well. His boss was called at home by the top guys and chewed out, threatened with firing, etc. ON A DAILY BASIS FOR A YEAR. The amount of responsibility that people like that have is something most people can't comprehend.

Lots and lots of $$$ isn't always worth what it takes to make it.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
4. Still, they are sitting on their asses in a warm, cushy office somewhere.
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 09:55 AM
Jan 2015

Not breaking their backs on a roof or highway.

12-15 hours sitting on your ass is not "hard work", not by any definition. Neither are 3-martini lunches.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
9. 3-martini lunches
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:24 AM
Jan 2015

are a thing of the far distant past--like 40 or 50 years ago.

Mental work can be more stressful than physical labor. Just because your workplace is a warm office and you sit in a comfortable chair doesn't mean you aren't working hard.

Lars39

(26,110 posts)
7. People put up with daily threats of firings every day
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:20 AM
Jan 2015

in right to work states, and for minimum wage at that, or for even less if their employer is stealing wages.

Lars39

(26,110 posts)
15. No, they're usually at their second or 3rd job at night.
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:28 AM
Jan 2015

And probably with no resources or education to enter another field.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
16. A couple years ago, we bought a 5 billion dollar company
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:29 AM
Jan 2015

Our CFO was traveling and taking calls nonstop, working 14-18 hours a day, to close the deal. All this while trying to prepare and attend his father's funeral.

Orrex

(63,220 posts)
17. My immediate supervisor is on-call 24/7
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:33 AM
Jan 2015

And he sure as hell ain't a millionaire.

The illusion that executives are the only ones required to be on-call 24/7 is as much an anachronism as the 3-martini lunch.

raging moderate

(4,308 posts)
18. Many people have 12 -15 hour workdays, with low hourly pay.
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jan 2015

Last edited Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:24 PM - Edit history (4)

That was about the norm for me, in my career as an itinerant public-school speech/language pathologist. With pay on the normal public-schoolteacher pay scale. And, of course, I had huge debts from working my way through to a Master's degree in my field. We lived in dumps, drove old cars, wore clothes from Goodwill. When I took off work to have my babies, we qualified for that WIC program. And I REALLY WORKED PHYSICALLY, TOO. I literally RAN between schools, carrying three or four satchels of materials, perched on tiny chairs at tiny tables, hurried to get kids for the next session (no time was allowed for that between sessions, and God help me if anybody realized that it was taking more than a minute between sessions to collect the next kids from several classrooms). At night and on weekends, I did the paperwork. During the summers, I worked at summer school and then took required refresher courses and then prepared materials for the school year. Do you think I didn't want to work fewer hours? I was already getting chewed out constantly for not accomplishing even more! I always said that I would never even speak to Denny Hastert unless he could follow me around for a week, carrying the physical load I carried. And that's not the only stressful job. In my youth, I was a factory worker, and that was physically painful in its demands: slinging heavy objects quickly, putting sharp things together quickly, pushing heavy loads around. I was a waitress for awhile, and we had "split shifts," which meant working twelve hour days without being paid for the middle hours. As if we could just go have fun for a few hours. Sure! After a half hour walk home, and then back, and get back to work too exhausted to do a good job! Did you think waitresses were paid enough to support car ownership? There were all sorts of dodges to make us work harder. We had to make the salads, set up tables, clean the work areas. The light announcing one of my orders was burned out, but I was expected to sprint back and forth, checking with the kitchen every minute or so, in between waiting on customers. And a waitress MUST SMILE at all times, like a TV star in a photo shoot. At night, I couldn't sleep despite total exhaustion; my feet used to hurt too much for hours. Believe me, I am a BIG TIPPER! And most people work harder than is generally acknowledged. There is a good reason for the recent life expectancy drop among lower income rural women. And the men also have it hard in these jobs. School custodians, farmers, motel workers, power company employees, and retail workers can report similar ordeals. Medical professions are full of unsung heroes. And then there are the brave people out there on the road repair crews and construction jobs. School and building custodians, road crews, store managers (even of the small sections in department stores), farmers, firemen, ambulance workers, most servants, medical personnel of all sorts, all these people are on call 24/7. And most low-paid workers get yelled at and threatened with firing (which, for most of them, means imminent homelessness and starvation) and treated as if any problem must be their fault. They, too, have responsibility.

NO WEEKENDS? You think you are the only ones with no weekends? Buddy, there are a pile of us out here that would like to talk to you guys about that. How did you think the civilization around you managed to function for you the way it does, 24/7? Did you think there were food fairies? Mop mermaids? Road robots? Pothole pixies? Bathroom brownies? Elves running the electrical power grids? Perhaps you believed those nurses really are angels, with NO physical needs?

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
12. Do you mean the rich or the ultra-rich?
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:26 AM
Jan 2015

I'm a scientist and I was once at an event where a consulting company tried to recruit new members.

The upsides:
* Lavish holiday-conditions. (Explicit.)
* Fantastic salary. (Implied.)

The downsides:
* Gruesome competition with colleagues. (They never mentioned it, but it was implied.)
* A 55-hour workweek, by my estimate. (If Friday REALLY would be sort of casual, where everybody leaves in the afternoon. Don't know if this would be true. If not, then even more hours per workweek.)

You get rich, but you burn out really quick and you don't have time for a private life.



And I think, there's some sort of turning-point. If you are past a certain salary, you again start working less hard.
Do you think, somebody who earns $1 billion a year spends 55 hours a week pouring over reports, meeting with experts and developing strategies to optimize something?

meow2u3

(24,771 posts)
13. Too many ultra-rich people work other people hard
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:27 AM
Jan 2015

and not pay them enough to live on. Then they take the wages they withheld from their workers and use them to buy politicians.

I know not all rich people abuse their workers, but so many of them do that they normalized greed and virtual slavery.

Orrex

(63,220 posts)
14. When I worked in financial services...
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 10:28 AM
Jan 2015

One of my responsibilities was to monitor my company's moneymarkets used by the company's big-wigs. One of them, I noticed, was receiving biweekly deposits that were substantially larger than my annual income.

I mentioned it to my supervisor as a curiosity, and she confirmed that these were simply his salary and didn't even include his other incentives or annual seven-figure bonuses, etc.

So his straight-up salary was considerably more than 26X my pay, and I can guarantee you that he wasn't working 26X harder than I was. I know this because not long thereafter he was fired, with a severance package worth more than I'll earn in my lifetime.


And I'm sure that my experience is far from unique.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»How much harder do the Ri...