Dow 18,000...A Good Thing for Many

[MineralMan]

It's fairly common for people to say that new highs for the DOW are meaningless and that they don't affect the 99%. While that's true to some extent, it's not the whole story, really:

Minnesota Unemployment Rate Below 4% - http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/minnesota/
National Unemployment Rate Below 6% - http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/national-employment-monthly-update.aspx

Benefits to those with retirement plans invested in the market - This applies to a great large group of people, who have seen their retirement plans recover very nicely since the Bushco lows in the market.

Not everyone sees the benefits of growth in stock values, but many do see those benefits.

This recovery occurred during Barack Obama's administration. Does he deserve any credit for that? I believe he does.

[el_bryanto]

1. Largely in agreement, with a caveat

I do think it's worth remembering that the market does benefit more than just the 1%, that said the Market is usually bullish on policies which are going to line their pockets at the expense of the rest of us. In particularly they don't want to be regulated - a promise of regulation, even though necessary for the long-term survival of the system, will probably cause a drop in the stock market.

Bryant

[MineralMan]

3. There is no good news that doesn't have a downside for some.

That is true. However, things are improving in general. Will the rich get richer? Of course. They always do. Are there benefits for the rest of us? It appears so, even if the two things are not simply related.

We do live in a capitalistic society. I know of no way that will change anytime soon. In fact, I can't see any change in that on any horizon I can visualize.

[NewDeal_Dem]

15. As the gap between top & bottom is the largest in recorded US history, one can only hope

that 'they always do' changes soon.

I haven't seen any benefits for 30 years, just a slow circling of the drain.

[Coventina]

2. Many of us are invested in the stock market whether we want to be or not.

With so many of us with no retirement options except a 401k, it affects many millions, not just the 1%.

That's why I found so much of the DU rhetoric around the crash so infuriating.

Thanks for the OP.

[MineralMan]

4. That's true. It doesn't apply to me any longer.

We liquidated our retirement funds quite some time ago. On the upside, an improved business environment makes it easier for me to earn a living, since my occupation requires small to mid-size businesses that are doing well. I'm optimistic about that in the near future.

[kelly1mm]

17. Even if you have a traditional defined benefit pension you are indirectly in the market. nt

[Nye Bevan]

5. A builder I know told me that business is great right now

because of so many people using their stockmarket gains to extend and improve their homes, which creates work for him as well as electricians, plumbers, etc.

[MineralMan]

6. Yes. I'm seeing that, too.

What I do is write content for complete websites. 90% of my business comes from small businesses, so the health of such businesses is crucial to my ability to earn a living. What I'm seeing is increased optimism from my clients, and that bodes well for clients to invest in website revamps.

So far, it looks like 2015 is going to be busy for me. That's a good thing.

[Enrique]

7. unemployment numbers, no question that's a good thing

DOW averages, some question about how "many" that's good for.

[MineralMan]

8. Yes, some people question that. However,

I'm quite certain that many, many DUers have their retirement linked to the stock market. Nationally, the number of people in that situation is enormous. For all of those people, high DOW averages are a good thing, too.

[mopinko]

9. just remember this about the dow- it's rigged.

the dow routinely replaces losers w winners. so, long term, it really doesnt show what most people think it shows.
and i havent watched it that carefully, but now that rupert murdoch owns it, i trust it even less.

short term, it is informative. as a long term historic marker of the economy, not so much.

[Major Nikon]

12. It's actually not a bad long term historical marker of the economy

And even in the short term it has value as every US recession has also been reflected in the DJIA.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--xPbk_AflRU/UcYiwcv32dI/AAAAAAAABqc/1RE9nk-Opp4/s640/1970+to+2013+gdpgnpdow.png

[MannyGoldstein]

10. True.

The unemployment numbers are somewhat cooked, but even the truest measures of unemployment are getting better -- although at the expense of lower effective wages.

Does President Obama deserve credit for the other stuff?...

Record number of homeless children enrolled in US public schools (+video)

Nearly 1.3 million homeless children and teens were enrolled in schools in the 2012-13 school year, an 8 percent increase from the previous school year – and an 85 percent increase since the beginning of the recession.

(from: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-02-07/comparing-economic-recoveries-ritholtz-chart)

[MineralMan]

11. I'm not doing any comparisons with anything.

I'm pointing out that many people have seen benefits, including many DUers. I'm not making any other claims or discussing any other issues in this thread. It is what it is.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. "This recovery occurred during Barack Obama's administration..."

"This recovery occurred during Barack Obama's administration. Does he deserve any credit for that? I believe he does."

I was responding to that - I'm wondering if you think it's generally true that Obama deserves some credit for all of the macro-economic events that have happened during his term.

[MineralMan]

14. I'm not biting, Manny.

I can see the hooks on that bait.

My OP was closely focused on just this one thing. You want to talk about other things? You can start a new thread. You've already posted twice as many times in my thread as you did in your own thread about the stock market.

[Zorra]

16. Manny, you're going to upset the champions of Reagonomics!

[MannyGoldstein]

18. Reaganomics was to the Left of Obama/Hoovernomics

Reagan talked about austerity, but in reality he ratcheted up government spending quite, a Keynsian pump priming.

Hoover, and Obama, who compares himself to Hoover, were/are austerians.