Gotta say, me/lapsed-Cath, this pope is beginning to put a spell on me

[UTUSN]

*********QUOTE********

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30577368

[font size=5]Pope Francis sharply criticises Vatican bureaucracy [/font]

He said the Curia - the administrative pinnacle of the Roman Catholic Church - was suffering from 15 "ailments", which he wanted cured in the New Year.

Pope Francis - the first Latin American pontiff - also criticised "those who look obsessively at their own image".

He has demanded reform of the Curia.

There was silence at the end of the Pope's speech.

Bigger say

Addressing the Curia on Monday, Pope Francis said some power-hungry clerics were guilty of "cold-bloodedly killing the reputation of their own colleagues and brothers". ....

*************UNQUOTE*************

[LiberalElite]

1. I'm lapsed too but

I'm not going back. It isn't just the pope that made me leave, so it won't be just the pope that gets me back.

[UTUSN]

2. Not about going back. Looks like he's breaking the china in the china shop.

Or is he committing suicide (I thought that was against policy).

[LiberalElite]

3. and/or

turning over the tables in the Temple...

[GliderGuider]

4. Hell (sorry) I'm an atheist, and the guy gives me a big case of the grins

A real human being managed to become Pope. Imagine that!

[RobinA]

27. Really...

I've never been a Catholic and am a non-theist and I think this guy is a rock star. He does have his blind spots, but he's leaps and bounds beyond what one normally expects from this quarter.

[hifiguy]

48. I share your thoughts completely.

The RC church isn't going anywhere so seeing its leader actually use his position for good is a step in the right direction. Many more remain to be taken but Francis is off to a fine start and he sure beats Benny the Rat by miles.

[Warpy]

5. Nothing lapsed about it, I stomped off in sheer disgust when I was ten

When he realizes that women are full human beings with rights to their own destiny as well as their own bodies, get back to me.

As long as he has that peculiar blindness that causes him to view half the human race as objects, as the natural slaves of men, he knows nothing.

[LeftyMom]

6. That.

[Arugula Latte]

10. Amen, Warpy, so to speak.

The RCC is a cesspool of corruption, cover-up, misogyny, homophobia, and greed. It has peddled ridiculous mythology and stomped on people for centuries, but it expects them to look to it for "moral guidance." Sorry, but what a fucking joke!

[hifiguy]

49. I am an atheist and was not raised Catholic but

I will argue that the journey to meaningful reform begins with the first steps. Francis is the first pope to take even a single step since John XXIII. Turning around an institution as bureaucratic, barnacle-encrusted and resistant to change as the RCC is an immense job, much like trying to raise the Titanic with a tweezers. At least he's trying.

[Warpy]

51. Without that most basic reform of all

it's just window dressing.

[Skittles]

17. it kills me how many women support that garbage

seriously, it is demented

[Bluenorthwest]

30. What this Pope has taught me is that many Democrats are perfectly comfortable with sexist and

homophobic activists. Much like the Republicans. Too much like the Republicans.

[J_J_]

7. me too

The world so needs spiritual guidance right now.

[Arugula Latte]

11. Spiritual guidance from the Roman Catholic Church? Really?

From the institution that says that women and gays are not deserving of equal rights, the same institution that has committed atrocities for centuries and covered them up? That's supposed to be "moral"?

[LynneSin]

8. I plan to go see him when he comes to Philly

i am impressed by this guy

[cap]

13. You won't be so impressed if you look at the agenda

Its focus is on the family with the usual crap. Speakers are very traditional, very prolife, etc.

Not unless the pope changes the agenda and gets new speakers. Google papal visit Philly and you will see it.

[cap]

14. Good old chaput is throwing the convention 'nuff said

[LynneSin]

25. I'm hoping to be a volunteer

I've done other stuff for the city of Philly with these big events where you help with the visitors coming into the city. It's actually fun. And my only plan to see the Pope was probably if they did something on the Ben Franklin parrkway - that's where they do their live events where the city expects a million plus people to attend. Live Earth was held there in 2005. I figured he'd will do something like that or a parade, that is what I plan to attend.

Trust me I've done all the googling

[bvf]

9. Please don't refer to yourself

as "lapsed." I'd bet the term "lapsed catholic" was coined to imply that those who leave the church are somehow in error.

Of course, it's all about guilt.

[ucrdem]

12. Papa is a rollin' stone

Wherever he lays his head is his Rome. . . .

[840high]

18. LONG LIVE pAPA...

[ucrdem]

20. Viva il papa

http://www.papaboys.org/ritorna-la-clericus-cup-con-il-motto-il-mio-capitano-e-papa-francesco/



p.s. yeah i had second thoughts on that one . . . anyway pic is at the link

p.p.s turns out it's a seminarian so I put the pic back ... the motto says "my captain is Pope Francis"

[Ilsa]

15. His accusations regarding their behavior were

Compared to biblical teachings for each point. He accused them of gross ambition, among other things.

I hope his guards are up to the task of protecting him from the Curia.

I like him. A lot. He seems very genuine.

[Cleita]

16. Good that he's not afraid of some very scary people.

I'm wondering why the real rulers of the church are letting him not be afraid?

Oh, I spent a good part of my youth living in convents and getting into acquiring a lot of knowledge about how that empire works and the RCC is an empire.

[Are_grits_groceries]

22. He really is challenging the power in the Church.

You mess with their power and you are doing something. Messing with doctrine is tame compared to this. Never seen anybody even say boo to them.
I think he is now challenging them now because he has made enough changes within to give him some power too.
The machinations in the Vatican make every other group pale in comparison. I would love to be a fly on the wall.
They wanted a caretaker Pope and they got one. He is taking care of them. Ha!

[Cleita]

33. Some pundit said that he hoped the Swiss guard were doing

overtime in protecting him.

[Posteritatis]

37. He actually sacked the Guard's commander earlier this month

For similar reasons that he gave the Curia - the guy was apparently too much of a martinet, status-obsessed, etc., first and protecting the Pope (and, don't forget, the rest of the Vatican!) somewhere around third.

The rank and file of the guard were apparently thrilled to hear he got rid of the guy too, which probably says something about their current opinion of their actual boss as a result.

[True Blue Door]

19. Yikes. I hope Pope Frank stays away from these guys on the Ides of March.

[arely staircase]

21. loved the homily - 'merry Christmas assholes'. nt

[GliderGuider]

23. "Salve, Cardinale Parolin. Papa Frankie sent me..."

"Papa Frankie thinks you're a schmuck. Frankie says that's a nice afterlife you got there, it would be a shame if something was to ... happen ... to it. Things can burn you know - burn forever. Frankie says, don't be a schmuck. You should listen to Frankie."

[CTyankee]

24. Get back to me when he starts ordaining women priests...

until then

[Faux pas]

26. As a 'recovering' Catholic,

I have to agree!

[FLPanhandle]

28. As an atheist, the best thing about Pope Francis is the conservatives reaction to him.

They despise him over on freerepublic which is enough for me to like him.

[Thinkingabout]

29. He appears to be trying to correct the image of the RCC, shows his compassion,

he is for the poor, the ill and this is good. If it does not please everyone, sorry, the trashing can continue for some, but the compassion for the poor and ill gets my attention.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. He says gay people are inherently disordered, abortion is murder, birth control a grave wrong.

I will make sure and remember where you stand. You stand with the people telling Africans they must not use condoms, AIDS killed 1.5 million in Africa last year. Condoms prevent transmission.
That which you see as good strikes me as somewhat murderous.

[UTUSN]

32. Good grief, I said nothing about specific issues. My point was solely about this one dude

saying things-in-the-face of those other dudes. I seem to remember that once per year or two you go personally ballistic on me or is it on everybody.

Not that I have to explain myself, but I am a Democratic secular humanist and my political positions are everything that label would lead a reasonable thinker to assume.

[Comrade Grumpy]

34. Some people show up to take a dump on every thread about Catholicism.

They have issues. They think they have issues. I think they have issues.

[Arugula Latte]

35. If Catholicism didn't have the supernatural element it would be like the Republican Party.

I don't understand why it is supposed to always get a pass when it is just a repressive, misogynistic, homophobic, and fully corrupt institution.

[pnwmom]

43. Oh really. What part of the Republican party urges us to serve the poor? n/t

[Arugula Latte]

45. Oh, yeah, that Vatican, such a charitable entity.

It's sitting on multi-billions and is probably the wealthiest institution in the entire world.

[pnwmom]

46. That is a nutty idea some people like to promote.

The individual parishes own their own buildings, and many of them are limping along financially and contemplating closure. Once a year they pass the baskets for a collection to go to the Vatican. That has not made the Vatican "the wealthiest institution in the world"; and neither has the few square miles of Italian property.

Many of the artworks are priceless, and the Church is trying to protect them, not sell them. They can be viewed by anyone now. Would it be better if they ended up in the private collections of billionaires? Should we shut down all the other art museums, too?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/vaticans-financial-empire-in-charts.html

[Bluenorthwest]

50. If stating the facts about your faith and the leaders of that faith is 'taking a dump' on it, then

what colorful characterization would you use for calling a minority group 'inherently disordered' and claiming they are influenced by Satan and demons? Why do you claim it is acceptable for Francis to spew filth at gay people but not acceptable for us to answer back to his lies?
Do you think we are your property, here to be abused for the amusement of Frank and his flock? That's not the case.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

36. I like this Pope too. Write that down. I want to be on your veiled threat list.

[NewDeal_Dem]

42. I don't recall him saying those things, do you have links?

[Katashi_itto]

52. Yup we know..."He's a monster..he's killed millions...zzzzzzzz"

Same thing over and over.

[w8liftinglady]

38. I got my rosary out... I wear it when I work now.

I left the catholic church in my 20s,disillusioned with the misogynist rantings of the priests.

I,too, love all that is good about the catholic religion...caring for the sick,the poor,the downtrodden.

This pope has restored my faith...by focusing on the right things.

[w8liftinglady]

39. Oh...BTW- I love birth control,abortion,divorce and lgbt marriage

....which is why I am an ex-catholic.

[WhiteAndNerdy]

40. Same here.

I've been an ex-Catholic for about 26 years, but Pope Francis really impresses me. I couldn't relate to JP II at all, especially as a young feminist. If we'd had Francis back then when I was growing dissatisfied with the church, I might have had more hope that it would change for the better, and I might have hung in there longer. But JP II was so rigid and almost regressive that I figured the church was what it was, it wasn't going to change, and if I didn't like it, the only real solution was to leave.

[gvstn]

41. As a truly lapsed Catholic, I love this guy.

He is what I was trained to believe a Priest was all about. You can't fake pictures when he hugs a diseased person like it is a gift from God. He truly believes in doing good towards his fellow man and believes we are all here for a purpose and are special. I would hesitate and yet he does not.



How he got to such a powerful position, escapes me but I love it. I hate the Catholic Church's view on contraception and gay rights but think this Pope could actually do some good. Visit sick and elderly, prisoners and let them feel Love. That is the message I was taught.

I have seen this from few Catholic priests (who are generally old and bitter and disillusioned) but have seen it in many individuals of other faiths and a few younger Priests who truly see the good in all people. When you meet someone who is grateful everyday for the birds singing or the blue sky and a sustaining meal then you meet someone who really gets life. I applaud those that are more gracious than I.

He may be only human rather than some form of God on earth but he has so far shown himself to be truly caring. I hope he can succeed in getting his brethren back on track in making every individual feel worthy and wanted.

[Rstrstx]

44. That's because he's forcing Christians to take a long hard look in the mirror

Slapping a 'values voter' sticker on your Escalade doesn't cut it with him. He's making many self-proclaimed sanctimonious Christians a bit squirmish, and I like that.

[bklyncowgirl]

47. As another estranged Catholic I have to add my applause! Go git-em Papa Francesco!

I wonder if any of these Cardinals are having regrets about voting for this guy. I hope he enjoys a long life and a long enough reign to put his reforms into actions.

I'm not sure I'd ever go back, not unless there's a big change in the way the Church views women and gay people and changes its doctrine on birth control, but I have to love that he's taking it to the guys who sat around feathering their nests while at the same time covering up the fact that priests were raping the altar boys.