Germany Files War Crimes Against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld And Other CIA Officials...

[Playinghardball]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/12/21/germany-files-human-rights-charges-against-bush-admin/

[GGJohn]

1. Was this the German Govt.?

Or was it a private org. filing the charges?

[uhnope]

34. NO. That's why fake news sites with their misleading headlines suck

but I suppose it's nice wishful thinking for the holidays

[GGJohn]

38. My hopes jumped when I the title,

and then they were dashed when I was finally able to read the actual article.

[yellowcanine]

68. Not even close. Totally bull hockey.

"The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights, has begun the process of indicting members of the Bush Administration by filing criminal complaints against the architects of the Admin’s torture program."

It is an organization based in Germany, apparently. No power to do anything official. What a travesty of a headline.

[MADem]

75. That's "Addicting Info" for you. Like crack, and about as good for you.

Total garbage and not worthy of this site. They make shit up and have no compunctions about it, either.

[malaise]

2. Get thee to the greatest page

Rec

[merrily]

3. Good

[zappaman]

4. Haha.

Fuckers.

[reddread]

5. how shamefully long is the list of accomplices?

[MineralMan]

6. Reading that, it appears that only an investigation

has been started. I see nothing about filing any charges there. In fact, I don't know if that organization can even file charges. This seems unclear, actually.

Looking further, it appears that this NGO has filed a complaint against them in Germany, calling for a criminal investigation. It does not appear that they have any particular authority in Germany, nor whether any investigation will be undertaken by the German government.

Poor reporting at the link.

[Enrique]

9. you weren't supposed to look further

you were just supposed to read the headline and play along.

[Voice for Peace]

11. LOL

It's a damn good headline.

[GGJohn]

12. It is, wish it were true,

but alas.......................

[GGJohn]

10. That's what I was asking the OP,

because the way the title reads is that the German Govt. filed the charges, but now it appears it's an NGO without any authority.

Thanks for the info, OP should clarify the title.

[MineralMan]

14. Well, the OP quoted the title from the link.

The problem was that the author at the link used a deceptive title. Reading it tells the actual story. Not that impressive, really.

[Playinghardball]

19. I took the title from this site...

https://twitter.com/jupiter896/status/546835342582882304/photo/1

[SleeplessinSoCal]

37. Why not at least put the title in quotes?

We don't need more rumors being passed off as fact.

[MineralMan]

44. Did you read the article at the link?

If you had, you'd have seen that nobody has filed any charges, just sent the German government a request that they investigate.

Twitter is only a source of headlines, not news. To get the news, you do have to go to the link and read it. The headline does not reflect what the news actually is. The link in your OP goes to the actual story, not to Twitter. It's always a good idea to read the thing you're posting a link to, I think..

[chrisa]

66. It's clickbait

[arely staircase]

7. somebody in Germany

is more accurate.

[MineralMan]

8. So it appears. Wikipedia only has a stub article

about this organization, so I doubt that it is one with a great deal of clout with the German government. It looks like the organization has asked the government to start a criminal investigation. Whether that happens remains to be seen.

Lots of organizations out there. I think the author of the piece at the link fudged a bit with the wording of this to make it appear that the filing of a complaint was more than it actually is.

[99th_Monkey]

62. As if Bush's groping Merkel's back & the NSA spying on German officialdom were not enough

I heard the interview on DN with the guys spearheading this effort, and it's
for real and appears to be growing legs fast.

Thank God. It is about time.

[MadDAsHell]

13. Wow, what a misleading headline. I understand you want views and recs...

and not that we wouldn't all love this headline if it were accurate, but this kind of sensationalist crap isn't doing DU any favors in the credibility department.

[NCTraveler]

15. I don't see where Germany or any other group has charged any of those mentioned with anything

Seems they attached the wrong headline to the story. Serious disconnect.

[AzDar]

16. K & R

[mountain grammy]

17. Whether this will go anywhere or not is not the issue..

the issue is the interview with an innocent man who was held and tortured even after it was known he was not the right man. The interview was on "Democracy Now" which is the source for this story, and this is a trusted news source. I want to see every story about every organization that speaks out against the evil done in my name. Thank you playinghardball for bringing this story to this forum.

[calimary]

73. The issue is - growing the drumbeat. MORE of this. More and more and MORE.

Maybe it'll lead to numerous investigations and trials and, hopefully, convictions around the world - even convictions in absentia. That may not drag these bastards off to prison, but it'll put it on the record. And the more we build that record, the worse it'll be for these accursed perps. They won't be able to travel. They won't be able to leave the continental U.S. without taking great personal risk. Because of the assholishness of the republi-CON Congress at the end of Bill Clinton's term - they don't have lifetime Secret Service protection anymore. That ended with the start of the bush/cheney regime.

I think it was the GOP's last gasp at "hurting" Bill Clinton, since their "impeachment" of him was a lox and a HUGE joke, they failed to try him and convict him and have him removed, it made them look tremendously piss-ant and small and unpopular, and they just wanted to find SOME way to smack him around once more. Problem? Their passing the bill that cut back Secret Service protection for past presidents and their spouses to a mere six years after leaving the White House - did NOT take effect until the presidential term AFTER Clinton. So they wound up giving that other President they hated lifetime Secret Service protection - and he's the last President who gets it! HA HA HA - their feeble, pathetic attempt to "hurt" President Clinton one more time - ended up hurting THEIR guy FIRST!!!



These war criminals are gonna spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulders, and maybe reaching over for the Maalox bottle on their night stand before they even get up out of bed in the morning. There ARE people who want to make citizens arrests overseas already. If there are official-type entities ready to do that, too - because these ARE, after all, WAR CRIMINALS, then these bastards will not sleep easily for the rest of their days.

And the wolfies and libbys and rummys and the david addingtons and john yoos and the contradictas and alfredo gonzaleses will have to start coughing up extra money for security wherever they go, and that won't let them rest easy either. They're going to spend the rest of their miserable lives as hunted, wanted criminals. And they're always going to be looking over their shoulders - til the day they draw their last breath.

[mountain grammy]

74. Agree, drip, drip, drip. One organization after another until the calls for justice can no longer be

ignored. The arrogance of these people is almost as bad as their crimes. The torture program had almost nothing to do with keeping America safe. The did it to 1. justify the Iraq invasion, 2. as revenge for 9/11 messing up their fun and games and 3. because they liked it, the sick bastards.

My immigrant family spoke lovingly of America. It was heaven compared to where they came from. Now, we are moving closer to where they came from; a lawless police state that takes people off the street and tortures them, or shoots people in the street. It's becoming normal and commonplace because there is no accountability for anyone in authority.

[LiberalLovinLug]

18. and some Canadians demanded that Bush and Cheney be stopped and charged

when they each had come to Canada on speaking engagements since in office. Under our laws anyone guilty of torture is automatically supposed to be not allowed into the country or arrested for human rights violations if they enter. Since both admitted to it, there was a clear case.

But we all know they have a free pass. Governments that want to stay on friendly terms with the worlds largest economy (although China is going to take over) simply chose not to enforce their own laws. I'm sure Germany will be no different.

[spanone]

20. about time someone has...

[niyad]

21. one can hope!

[Rex]

22. Good to read they are going to file criminal charges in Germany.

The list will get shorter and shorter of the places the BFEE can travel to. Mark off Germany.

[Hopemeister]

23. Brilliant!

hopefully the Germans can Britain to follow their lead on this.

[xocet]

24. Here is the article from ECCHR's website itself....

Criminal complaint against Bush era architects of torture
The German Federal Prosecutor must (read as "should") investigate former CIA Director Tenet, former Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and others - and should not wait until they are on German soil

17 December 2014 – The ECCHR has today lodged criminal complaints against former CIA head George Tenet, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other members of the administration of former US President George W. Bush. The ECCHR is accusing Tenet, Rumsfeld and a series of other persons of the war crime of torture under paragraph 8 section 1(3) of the German Code of Crimes against International Law (Völkerstrafgesetzbuch). The constituent elements of the crime of torture were most recently established in the case by the US Senate in its report on CIA interrogation methods. “The architects of the torture system - politicians, officials, secret service agents, lawyers and senior army officials – should be brought before the courts,” says ECCHR General Secretary Wolfgang Kaleck, who is appearing today in connection with the issue in front of the German Parliamentary Committee on legal affairs. “By investigating members of the Bush administration, Germany can help to ensure that those responsible for abduction, abuse and illegal detention do not go unpunished.”

The US Senate report devotes one section explicitly to the case of German citizen Khaled El Masri, who was abducted by CIA agents in 2004 due to a case of mistaken identity and was tortured in a secret detention center in Afghanistan. The criminal complaint details the US Senate report’s finding that once the unlawful error was discovered, the former CIA director refused to take further steps against those responsible.

ECCHR calls on Federal Prosecutor Harald Range to open investigations into the actions of Tenet, Rumsfeld and other perpetrators and to set up a monitoring process as soon as possible. This would allow the German authorities to act immediately in the event that one of the suspects enters European soil and not have to wait until such point before beginning the complex investigations and legal deliberations.

Together with the US Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), Kaleck previously submitted criminal complaints against Tenet and Rumsfeld in Germany in 2004 and 2006 and against Bush in Switzerland in 2011. ECCHR is also involved in legal proceedings in Spain and France concerning Guantánamo. The current criminal complaint by ECCHR is supported by former UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak, the CCR in New York along with its President Emeritus Michael Ratner and its Vice President Peter Weiss, winner of the Martin Ennals Awards 2014 Alejandra Ancheita, Professor for International and Public Law at the Université Libre de Bruxelles Annemie Schaus, Professor for Criminal Law at the University of Hamburg Florian Jeßberger and Berlin attorney Dieter Hummel.

...

http://www.ecchr.de/us_accountability.html

One can hope, but the situation is far from the OP's actual title "Germany Files War Crimes Against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld And Other CIA Officials..."

[spanone]

25. let's send these three criminals to germany on an all expense paid trip...i'll chip in!

then we can round up the rest of them.

[SummerSnow]

36. lets round up the usual subjects...

[truth2power]

64. Sexual predators, all. n/t

[cer7711]

26. Justice at Nuremberg . . .

. . . comes back to haunt US war criminals and torturers.

What happens after the admission that "we tortured some folks" will define us as a society for decades to come. The clock is ticking.

The Nuremberg Principles

Principle I. Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefore and liable to punishment.

Principle II. The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.

Principle III. The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

Principle IV. The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.

Principle V. Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law.

Principle VI. The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

(a) Crimes against peace:

(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War Crimes:

Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation of slave-labor or for any other purpose of the civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.

Principle VII. Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.

[Curtis]

52. Here's my question

(c) Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.

Our government claims the reason they could torture captives was because they were not soldiers under the Geneva Conventions. Okay then that means they were civilians (can't have it both ways, right?). So, this part of the Nuremberg Principles should apply. Right?

[Bluenorthwest]

27. This headline is like many headlines about the Pope, it would be great if it was true but it's not.

nt

[swilton]

28. Couldn't be more well deserved

[Iggo]

29. When Germany charges you with war crimes, you know you done fucked up!

[kentuck]

32. That was my first thought...

[alfredo]

30. War crimes and the ICC.

http://www.haguejusticeportal.net/index.php?id=6173
If we don't charge the bushites, or there is a fake trial, the ICC can jump in.

[GGJohn]

33. The ICC can jump in all they want,

but they have no jurisdiction over US citizens, the US withdrew from the ICC in 2002 under the Bush admin, so even if the ICC did indict Bush Admin members, there would be no extradition.

[alfredo]

59. I think Obama changed that.

[GGJohn]

60. It was never ratified by the Congress,

so we're not bound by the ICC, and according to this, we're still not a signatory.

3.On May 6, 2002 the UN Secretary-General, in his capacity as treaty depositary, received the following communication from the government of the United States of America:

...n connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court adopted on July 17, 1998, [...] the United States does not intend to become a party to the treaty. Accordingly, the United States has no legal obligations arising from its signature on December 31, 2000. The United States requests that its intention not to become a party, as expressed in this letter, be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty.

http://www.amicc.org/icc/ratifications

[alfredo]

65. Thanks.

[kentuck]

31. Of all countries...

Germany?

[Enthusiast]

41. One thing.........................they know war crimes when they see it.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[ozone_man]

53. Since WWII one could argue that our tally is approaching their's.

Who better to gauge war crimes than Germany.

[iandhr]

35. The article talks about an investigation.

Seems people would do well to read more than a headline.

[irisblue]

39. GOOD!GOOD!

the shame they brought home stains us for decades. Seeing Cheney in a court in the Hauge.....a girl can dream.

[GGJohn]

45. It won't ever happen.

No US president is going to send Cheney, or Bush to the Hague for trial, it just isn't going to happen.
And the US is no longer a signatory to the ICC.
Did you read the article? The article is 180 degrees from what the title is.
Germany has not filed war crime charges, it's a NGO asking the German Govt. to investigate, nothing more.

[irisblue]

48. no I didn't read the article. I feel so nausated I could vomit.

[GGJohn]

50. Don't feel bad,

my heart jumped with hope when I saw the title, then I read the article and my hopes were dashed.
Would have been a great holiday present.

[irisblue]

47. and seeing that it is not the Gov't of Germany bringin war crimes, charges upon further review

I feel & sicker and more depressed. yeah

[Enthusiast]

40. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Go Germany!

[lark]

42. Justice!

I love it!!!

[BelgianMadCow]

43. Video clip from The Real News Network about this case

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12862

[WillyT]

46. More Here:

Amy Goodman - Truth-Out: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/28147-should-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-and-cia-officials-be-tried-for-torture-war-crimes-case-filed-in-germany

[KingCharlemagne]

49. While this headline's use of synecdoche is highly misleading, it should be noted that

Bush and other high ranking members of the Junta have already been convicted of war crimes in absentia in Malaysia back in May 2012:

In what is the first ever conviction of its kind anywhere in the world, the former US President and seven key members of his administration were yesterday (Fri) found guilty of war crimes.

Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their legal advisers Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were tried in absentia in Malaysia.

The trial held in Kuala Lumpur heard harrowing witness accounts from victims of torture who suffered at the hands of US soldiers and contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They included testimony from British man Moazzam Begg, an ex-Guantanamo detainee and Iraqi woman Jameelah Abbas Hameedi who was tortured in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/

[JDPriestly]

51. K&R.

[blkmusclmachine]

54. I expect full pardons all around from Obama. Gotta "look forward," y'know...

[seveneyes]

55. Devolution is a paradox

We can not undo that which is done and one can dwell upon the regular pause in the motion of a machine, but the emotion lives on.

[Recursion]

56. Maybe change the headline, since Germany refuses to do that?

I really, really hated this article for that reason...

[Gumboot]

57. But no charges were brought against this stinking turd???

[Recursion]

58. No charges have been brought by anybody. It's a clickbait headline.

A human rights group is urging an investigation.

[True Blue Door]

61. Somewhere in the accusation, the Germans need to have said something along the lines of...

"We recognize you. We've seen you before. Your kind are very, very familiar to us."

[cvoogt]

63. Not just misleading

But factually incorrect headline. Germany did not file anything. An independent non-profit based in Germany did.
See the ECCHR site. Seems to be something like a Germany-based ACLU for international human rights. I support the move 1000% but it doesn't help the cause to blow things out of proportion.

[Duval]

67. That's wonderful!

Why can't we just kidnap them and fly them to Germany?? Too bad the headline isn't true.

[Gore1FL]

69. If the headline was only true.... n/t

[Initech]

70. Should have happened 10 years ago.

[Hekate]

71. Misleading: this is NOT from the German government.

This is not from the German government, which is what the title of the article implies, but from "a human rights group in Berlin," called "The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights." That's a different animal.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/12/21/germany-files-human-rights-charges-against-bush-admin/

Be that as it may, I thank them wholeheartedly for giving us an object lesson in the ironies of History.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

72. Takes one to know one....

http://server4.whiterosesociety.org/content/malloy/MalloyMemories/Seig_Bush.mp3

[LincolnsLeftHand]

76. Why would anyone from the US

Want to agree to subject any US politician to the laws of a foreign country? And where do you draw the line? That just sounds like a terrible idea to me. Every US president makes some country angry.

[ismnotwasm]

77. Not every US president still Alive is such a blatant war criminal as Bush and Co

As well as being a traitor. We should be putting them on trial

[LincolnsLeftHand]

78. Ok

But the US trying someone is different than agreeing that a foreign country gets to try US politicians.

[ismnotwasm]

79. If you read up thread

You'll find it's not actually Germany the country anyway. Also, it's not the first organization in a foreign country to do it or to consider it.

As far as I'm concerned, they blatantly lied to lead to war-- a war with no clear goals, ignored valuable military advice during the war, condoned war crimes, disrupted any number of economies-this effected the world, not just the U.S.

[LincolnsLeftHand]

80. Apologies for any misunderstanding on my part

I thought that someone was recommending that United States politicians (current or former) should be subject to prosecution by foreign authorities. That would obviously be silly.

[ismnotwasm]

81. I see

I don't think that could happen, other than a gesture on some countries part.