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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Startling Admission By The Ferguson Prosecutor Could Restart The Case Against Darren Wilson
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/21/3606084/how-a-startling-admission-from-the-ferguson-prosector-could-restart-the-case-against-darren-wilson/McElroy, according to a detailed investigation by The Smoking Gun, suffers from bipolar disorder but is not receiving treatment and has a history of making racist remarks. In a journal entry, McElroy wrote that she was visiting Ferguson on the day of Michael Browns death because she wanted to stop calling Blacks N****** and Start calling them people. McElroy also has had trouble with her memory since being thrown through a windshield in a 2001 auto accident....
McCulloch justified his actions by asserting that the grand jury gave no credence at all to McElroys testimony. But this is speculation. Under Missouri law, the grand jury deliberations are secret and McCulloch is not allowed to be present.
A Missouri lawmaker, Karla May, called Friday for a legislative investigation of McCullochs conduct. May said that there is evidence to suggest that McCulloch manipulated the grand jury process from the beginning to ensure that Officer Wilson would not be indicted.
Bring. It. ON!
Johonny
(20,851 posts)I read that story this weekend and couldn't believe it. Does he think we're stupid?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)he expects us to think the Rand Paul-esque monstrosity on top of his head is his actual hair.
Mr.Bill
(24,294 posts)he will probably be a Congressman next.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 22, 2014, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)
adieu
(1,009 posts)Still doesn't escape the fact that the witness had her day in court.
calimary
(81,272 posts)Shouldn't have even been allowed to offer testimony. The FLAGRANT bias here is just really infuriating. And embarrassing!
THERE ARE SO MANY WRONG SIGNALS SPINNING OUT OF THIS STUFF!!!!!!!
AND IT'S BOUND TO END BADLY!!! Heck, ALMOST GUARANTEED to end badly.
For example, all the mouths yapping about how the protests spurred the murder of those two New York City cops? SHIT! The protests have NOTHING to do with that!!! For Pete's Sake! It's the widely-perceived INJUSTICE that's spurred it! Flagrant and repeated injustice unfortunately can be expected to spark something like this. It's gonna provoke someone feeling great grievance about this just to snap! You get enough of the repeated incidents where white-cop-kills-black-civilian-and-isn't-held-accountable - and invariably some hothead out there is gonna be very tempted to take matters into his/her own hands. All it's going to do is provoke more vigilante justice among those who feel that the system is so stacked against them and the game is so rigged that they have to go all Lone-Ranger-meets-Robin-Hood and "settle this" on their own. Somebody's gonna go rogue and do something really reckless in the name of seeking justice, or payback, or whatever one might want to call it.
It's just bad, and sad, all around. I wish more of our justice-system people could see and understand this. Don't they study human nature? Or is it just me? When I first heard about the ambush killing of those two cops, that's the first thing that popped into my mind. Somebody's trying to even the score, on their own, because those cops in the Eric Garner case didn't face any consequences for CLEAR and OBVIOUS police brutality.
It's NOT the protesters. It's NOT the protesters! They've been peaceful. Large in number but basically peaceful. They're holding signs instead of guns and ammo.
This is so damn sad. It just makes me feel disgusted and ashamed.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Nov. 22, 1963 about 'chickens coming home to roost.' Malcolm X took a lot of shit for that comment -- IIRC, the Nation of Islam even kicked him out for it -- but his point was that a country that puts out so much violence is bound to have that violence come back to it at some point, almost like an inexorable law of physics or of karma.
Taibbi has a great article elaborating on some of your points here:
When that perception sinks in, it's not just going to be one Eric Garner deciding that listening to police orders "ends today." It's going to be everyone. And man, what a mess that's going to be.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-police-in-america-are-becoming-illegitimate-20141205?page=2
calimary
(81,272 posts)We MUST have some public sign - an outward sign as we Catholics would say - that yes, even the cops are subject to the same laws, obligations, responsibilities, and criminal penalties for crossing the limit. When you have a pile-on of police on ONE guy, whose instinct was apparently to resist what he thought was a clear and total over-reaction by the officers - and you get a frickin' DEATH because he was selling single cigarettes - W. T. F. ??? What are we supposed to think about that? What are we supposed to do about that? How are we supposed to react? What can the rest of us be expected to conclude from that?
When you can clearly see this glaring unfairness over and over and over and over: police overreach, and quite literally OVERKILL, and there are NO consequences? NONE? NOBODY facing any charges or disciplinary anything? There's NOTHING? Again and again they're let off the hook? Seriously? I mean, shit - the Eric Garner disaster sure looks like unreasonable and unwarranted overreach to me. And DEFINITELY overkill. I mean, the police reaction to that man looked completely ridiculous to me! They freakin' choked him to death? For selling single cigarettes? Are you KIDDING me??? That's thereby rendered a death-penalty offense?
I'm a 61-year-old white woman. But it was as glaringly clear to me as though it were a cream pie in the face. How could people not conclude what they have concluded from this? We ALL saw the video. How could one conclude anything different? How could there be any other takeaway from this?
Especially when it's happened again and again and again and again and ...
There's gonna be more trouble and more grief and more civil disruption if our justice system doesn't respond, and try to correct some of this increasingly frightening imbalance. It will lead us to pitchforks and torches and mobs in the streets (and I fear, a LOT worse) who've decided that enough is finally just ENOUGH. It won't be just one single rogue nutcase deciding he has to seek and impose "justice" when the system won't. Our whole social balance is at serious risk. And as Matt Taibbi puts it, rather succinctly - When that perception sinks in, it's not just going to be one Eric Garner deciding that listening to police orders "ends today." It's going to be everyone. And man, what a mess that's going to be.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Anyone getting there hopes up about this doesn't realize that the Republicans have total control of the Missouri legislature. Veto proof majorities next month, not that Nixon is going to do anything. Karla May is playing to her constituents; she knows this will go nowhere.
If the Feds had anything, charges would have been filed by now.
Wilson will not face criminal charges for shooting Brown, and McCulloch will continue to serve in the office he was re-elected to last month.
The only possible action will be civil suits.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Under Missouri law (MO Rev Stat § 56.110) the presiding judge of the court with criminal jurisdiction in this case Judge McShane can appoint another prosecutor if the prosecuting attorney demonstrates a conflict of interest or bias. Courts have interpreted this provision broadly to include conflicts that reveal themselves through the prosecutors conduct in the case. In State v. Copeland, a 1996 case, a Missouri court replaced the prosecutor because the judge sensed that [the prosecutors] sympathies for [the defendant] may have prevented him from being an effective advocate for the state. The judge found the adversarial process to have broken down in that [the prosecutor] appeared to be advocating the defendants position.
Many have said that the governor or legislators would have to appoint the special prosecutor. But according to the article, this judge can do it. We have to find out how to put pressure on her to do it. I hope the entire community of prosecutors and attorneys speaks out against McCulloch for his obvious breach of ethics.
Response to KamaAina (Original post)
Post removed
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)But I love the logical argument of your post. Thanks for all that great explaining of why its disgustingly sad, and all that.
bluesbassman
(19,373 posts)You make the assertion that this was "imperfect" justice, when in fact it's clearly been manipulated justice. Been that way from the moment they let Wilson drive his vehicle away from the scene. Anyone who is not outraged at this miscarriage of justice and dismissively recommends that those that are "get over it" has an agenda and it sure isn't about justice.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)It's lacking in simple facts like that which show that you didn't do any actual research of your own, you just believe what others have told you. Others who were wrong.
If this is such a grand injustice, if Wilson is so guilty, if the Ferguson police are so corrupt, why are there no federal charges pending? Is Eric Holder a racist too? Perhaps he has an agenda, and just isn't about justice?
Or maybe there is nothing there. Perhaps, just perhaps, you have whipped up a sensational miscarriage of justice where there is none. Imperfect, yes. Miscarriage, no. Big difference.
You have an agenda, and that agenda is singular.
bluesbassman
(19,373 posts)Aside from unabashed cop apologia, what exactly is yours?
Indydem
(2,642 posts)I know that's a strange thing for people who operate on rumor and innuendo to base their opinions.
I like the truth.
So. Yeah. That's my agenda.
An unarmed man can be a threat to the police, himself, and others. The idea that your mind cannot wrap itself around that reality is a sign of a mind lacking a grasp on reality and or an imagination.
bluesbassman
(19,373 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 22, 2014, 05:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Would that be the "truth" of Sandra McElroy being at the scene when Wilson gunned Brown down in a fit of his own racist fueled rage and the "truth" of Bob McCulloch encouraging her testimony? Or how about the "truth" of Daniel Pantaleo choke holding Eric Garner on video until Garner was dead. Those are some very disturbing "truths" you side with in your quest to be the mouthpiece for all that is true and good with our country's out of control LEOs. Carry on.
They like conditional facts. Sad to watch people carry water for a racist DA.
tblue37
(65,371 posts)bluesbassman
(19,373 posts)olegramps
(8,200 posts)When a citizen is killed by the police determination if the police person is the responsibility of the DA. This is the same DA who works daily with the police department to obtain indictments. Herein is the problem. An independent Special Prosecutor should be assigned to see if changes are warranted. If this had been the case much of the mistrust the has resulted could have been avoided. I do believe that relying on a local prosecutor in these cases to be objective is to be expected and is counterproductive to obtaining the facts. There is strong evidence in this case that the DA was not impartial and was not seeking an indictment of the policeman. This has also been born out in numerous other case of a similar nature. The system is flawed and corrective action should be taken.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Maybe because you realized that the federal investigations have not been completed... right?
http://rt.com/usa/208755-ferguson-federal-investigation-continue/
http://www.npr.org/2014/12/02/368041073/a-look-at-the-federal-investigations-into-michael-browns-death
pintobean
(18,101 posts)as well?
Number23
(24,544 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)from the scene after it was all over. He paced around the body, reached down, touched it. The body lay in the streets from between 4-5 hours and was 'investigated' constantly. The people who saw this were never called as witnesses. And the forensics search was done in a closed off area by the same police force for whom wilsonthepig served. You are amazing in your 'logic' and your agenda is apparently obvious. But with your hidden post, at least more logical minds have prevailed....
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I'm pretty sure I saw his vehicle removed from the scene on a lift-bed tow truck. And, St. Louis County PD supposedly did the forensics, Wilson worked for Ferguson PD.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)show me a photo of the car on a lift truck, I'll admit I was wrong.... Have a good day. Wilsonthepig is a murderer who got a pass on that murder from a group of his peers. Fact. I don't care about the 'progressive' nitpicking that has gone on from day one of this modern amerikkan lynching. Your right to want to pick at nits....I won't waste my time since a dead body shot 10 times, once from the back, lay dead in the street, many of those hours uncovered, as an example to be given to black people in that town, in a majority white town for 5 hours, blood seeping into the gutter. As an aside, seeing Michael Brown laying in that street for hours took me back to "the good old days" when the KKKnightriders and citizens would leave hung, castrated and bloody bodies swinging in the trees until some black people were able to spirit them away, sometimes it was whole families, men, women, children, for a proper burial. Any reference to St. Louis County police authorities has NO MERIT, to me, as being objective 'authorities' concerning the forensics of the murder/execution of Michael Brown. The vindication of wilsonthepig everything I needed to know..
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Most people wouldn't call sticking to them "nitpicking".
?1408693682
heaven05
(18,124 posts)SO WHAT!!!!!! How many other 'facts' put forth by the 'authorities of St. Louis Co. were contrived and manipulated by them to fit the defense needed to not indict wilsonthepig? Look you can be the 'good american' and take mcolics words of authority for everything that happened that day, you can applaud that an 'innocent' man walked away from his murder of an unarmed 'thug', ridding fergusons good, privileged citizens of another '"demon" threat. Your right. It was still murder/execution of an unarmed person. Hope you feel better with you point being proven. Have a nice holiday, Michael Brown's family will be missing a family member this year, unnecessarily. How about that nitpicking FACT? UNNECESSARILY!!!!!????
pintobean
(18,101 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)just stating fact about our exceptional democracy and it's systems and institutions designed to serve the privileged only. Have a nice holiday.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Awww...
Rex
(65,616 posts)I guess they believe it to be a progressive stance on law enforcement. Just looks like more authoritarian worshiping at the feet of The Man to me.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)just imagining that people see you for who you are and we all just let that be a lesson to us all about progressives and progressives. Your ideas are selective witness story 'proof' also. You really can't see yourself for how you appear and that is a good thing, because you will really slip up one day and I'll be right here to say to all, "I told you so', about this one...... "Imperfect justice" for some inconsequential person is what I see you referring to, right?. Racist justice? Right. Evidently your kind of justice since you can dismiss an execution/murder such as this so cavalierly.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)So, yeah. I won't "slip up" I'll be who I've always been; a proud Democrat.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)and you're not a progressive, that true, or a liberal and you a "proud democrat"? Go tell that joke to someone who will believe your ......story.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Good.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)what "democrat" is proud of their own blindness to humanity and life?
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"you have to be furious about the witnesses who lied..."
Did they testify during the grand jury? If not, what is the precise relevance to the grand jury in their statements?
"People seriously need to get over this. It's just another example of imperfect justice..."
You believe people should get over an imperfect justice? Quite the low bar you set for yourself...
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Even the ones that recanted to the federal agents but still testified to their lies to the grand jury. But in any case it's the jury that has the responsibility of figuring out which witnesses are credible and which aren't and same goes for jury trials.
The biggest problem here is the grand juries, period. They're secret. The Brown grand jury was actually the most fair one I've ever heard of and all the documentation was made public afterward. The public needs to know what ALL the evidence is and why the jury voted as they did. Damn shame both the Brown and Garner cases occurred in states that still use grand juries rather than adversarial preliminary hearings that are public, where a judge oversees the matter, where ALL the evidence is presented to both sides, and there actually IS two sides. The public doesn't understand how the juries in either grand jury came to their conclusion to not indict even though in the Brown case all the information from the grand jury was made public because the media didn't bother to parse that in the Brown case, and has no information in the Garner case, and in the Brown case precious few people were going to slog through all that information.
Frankly, I'd like to know how that one officer in the Garner case wasn't charged with anything though I don't know what he could be charged with, but no one is explaining to the public why the jury found there was nothing to charge anyone for. Is that because of the law, if it is what law, or what else was it? We can't know because grand juries are secret. Is it then any wonder why people can't figure out why in the Garner case no one was charged? At least in the Brown case all that documentation WAS made public except most people aren't going to read all those reams and reams of documents. I did just because that kind of stuff is interesting to me in just about any case and was especially interesting to me in the Brown case because I WANTED to know the truth of what occurred. And I still don't know if that last volley of shots was either reasonable or acceptable under the law, but I also can't figure out a lot of things like distances since the testimony can't SHOW that kind of stuff nor was it explained for anyone not seeing some kind of visual aid that the jury DID have.
And it's because of this lack of any explanation to the public by the media or authorities how and why the juries came to the conclusions that they did why the general public isn't going to understand it and tend to believe something hokey went on.
In all the states that have grand juries they've got to go and be replaced with the FAIR and PUBLIC adversarial preliminary hearing. Grand juries don't serve the public at all and when the public NEEDS to know WHY a grand jury didn't indict.
yodermon
(6,143 posts)Most said he DID have his hands UP when shot.
MOST said MB was RUNNING AWAY when shot.
So there's that.
http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/26/7295595/eyewitnesses-ferguson-grand-jury
Indydem
(2,642 posts)And not one shot hit him in the back?
Every witness who says that is forensically disqualified.
And as far as what I was saying in post #7 is that there were some witnesses that said Wilson shot Brown while his hands were up, at close range, as an execution.
That chart says there are 5 witnesses (and Wilson) that say Brown charged Wilson. So witness 40 is irrelevant. There is plenty more witnesses to his running at Wilson.
Witnesses 37, 41, 42, 45, and 46 are no less liars than witness #40.
There were PLENTY of liars who changed testimony and bald faced lied. The fact that people want to take the testimony of #40 as the sole liar is just pathetic and shows that they are grasping for imaginary straws.
Let it go.
yodermon
(6,143 posts)This grand jury process was highly out of the ordinary, and probably corrupt, as per the OP.
If I ever shoot someone I hope i'm afforded the opportunity to bag my own evidence, get my story straight with fellow officers, and then give an unchallenged interview to the grand jury.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)No other defendant, certainly no other black defendant and certainly no murder defendant, gets the type of grand jury presentation that Wilson got. Even you cannot deny the special treatment.
When you consider that with the prosecutor presenting false testimony, the inequality and injustice is worse. All because of the race of the dead man and the occupation of the white man. Inequality and institutional racism is on full display. Shame of the defenders of it.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I had not seen this before.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... impunity by people who hate him because of the color of his skin.
Or... anything close to that
Regards
Response to Post removed (Reply #7)
Post removed
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)But his otherwise excellent post got hidden because he responded angrily to your "butthurt" crapola.
I was a search and rescue shot caller for the county for about 9 years. Ive interviewed about a dozen 'eye witnesses', usually in the scope of: this witness is the last person to have seen our missing person.
100.00% of them gave me bad intel. Some of it wildly inaccurate. Surely you would remember that the person who you actually saw was wearing a blue shirt, and not a yellow one (interestingly enough, this subject had on a yellow bandana though...)
The unreliable nature of 'eyewitness' testimony is well documented. I suggest you google it. When eyewitnesses "change their story", most of the time it is devoid of motive. Yes, the testimony of Wilson and Brown's friend will be different. Because they have different psychology, prejudices and influences as individuals. For example, I have become aware of several events during my deployment in iraq which I have been told I remember inaccurately.
This mechanism is COMPLETELY different than lying to insert oneself into the case. Completely different from lying under oath about something with serious consequences. If the prosecutor ever knew that she wasnt even at this location during the shooting, that is a grievous event. Sifting through differing and contradictory testimony from numerous witnesses is the name of the game. Literally. Thats why there is no "fury" over those. Thats why there is no fury (but I personally dont believe a word) about Wilson's testimony.
You are ascribing the lying motive to a lot of people, but selectively - in your words -not assigning that lying motive to #40 or wilson.
Moreover, it is, in fact, the job of a PROSECUTOR to seek an indictment. This guy acted like he was the personal defense attorney to Wilson.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)McCulloch admitted that he knew McElroy's testimony was contrived but allowed it anyway.
McCulloch allowed his bias to color the perception of the jurors.
McCulloch should have recused himself as he has a built in animosity toward black people.
We should not get over it!
Rex
(65,616 posts)He admitted to letting someone give false testimony. So unless they go before a judge that doesn't care about the law, the DA is toast!
Couldn't happen to a bigger racist.
Can't wait for the FBI to start issuing subpoenas to the PD, that will be a great thing to watch!
JI7
(89,250 posts)The problem is deeper and a cultural thing.
Too many people who Don't care
pasto76
(1,589 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)there was a 'leak' from the fed..investigation that no charges would be filed...just like the zimpig murderer. The whole police dept may be under scrutiny at this time...but unless wilsonthepig screamed he was going to kill the n....., no civil rights charges can be filed at the federal level. I expect nothing to come of any of these cases, ever. Wilsonthepig got over 1million dollars donated to him. He will live the life of riley for ridding ferguson of one more of their unwanted 'thugs'.
BootinUp
(47,152 posts)that this evidence was presented.
shocked that he admitted though.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I feel like, he admitted to such a thing since he is confident and secure enough to know that it won't be re-opened.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)...as imperfect as Missouri's racial attitudes were, at least they weren't as totally despicable as those of states like Alabama and Mississippi.
That was then.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)be too hopeful considering the history of our system of justice.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)second...then fired. or vice-versa
Michael brown is being murdered all over again cause of this asshole.
His racism decided the outcome. And to all those stupid people who supported his case...fuck u. Investigate this asshole and Ibet there are sooo many people sitting in prison over his lying "evidence". can you say lawsuits? hundreds of them
spanone
(135,838 posts)usafvet65
(46 posts)I don't find it hard to draw a straight line from Bob McCulloch and his grand jury subterfuge to all the unrest, protests and yes the shooting of the two police officer in New York.
If the grand jury had charged Darren Wilson it would have offered hope that the system is not totally rigged.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)like happened with Zimmerman? That trial was a joke because there was no case. I felt sorry for the prosecutors that Angela Cory made try that mess.
Cha
(297,246 posts)and take Darren Wilson with him.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)the beating of Rodney King?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Then he admits something like this.
He should have recused himself. But I guess he has no sense of justice. Maybe he should pursue a different career choice.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)I honestly hope that this leads to reform and that there is an independent agency or special prosecutor set up to investigate instances of police killings.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)he is just rubbing our faces in his bs now outright admitting he didn't give a fuck about Michael Brown or justice for him
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)This is what we have been calling for since day one. No one is shocked that this POS prosecutor didn't get an indictment that was called ever since it came out he would be calling a grand jury. The only good thing to come from all of this is that we now know how corrupt our system is and that it is completely set up to protect bad cops.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)These oaths and the law require that he not knowingly suborn perjury. He should be charged as well and be investigated by the State Bar!
termroffor
(34 posts)Useless word.
turbinetree
(24,703 posts)This prosecutor has some very serious problems and he could find himself behind bars, if and when they investigate the contempt charges that can be filed from a special prosecutor.
He should and most likely lose his license and other possible sanctions.
His public function was suppose to be and use in his charge to fair and equal under the law and his actions have no excuse.
Gothmog
(145,265 posts)It is somewhat unlikely that a special prosecutor will be appointed but that would be the right thing to do