NYT Editorial Board: Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses

[johnnyreb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/prosecute-torturers-and-their-bosses.html?ref=opinion

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
DEC. 21, 2014

Since the day President Obama took office, he has failed to bring to justice anyone responsible for the torture of terrorism suspects — an official government program conceived and carried out in the years after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

(....)

The American Civil Liberties Union is to give Attorney General Eric Holder Jr. a letter Monday calling for appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate what appears increasingly to be “a vast criminal conspiracy, under color of law, to commit torture and other serious crimes.”

The question everyone will want answered, of course, is: Who should be held accountable? That will depend on what an investigation finds, and as hard as it is to imagine Mr. Obama having the political courage to order a new investigation, it is harder to imagine a criminal probe of the actions of a former president.

But any credible investigation should include former Vice President Dick Cheney; Mr. Cheney’s chief of staff, David Addington; the former C.I.A. director George Tenet; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, the Office of Legal Counsel lawyers who drafted what became known as the torture memos. There are many more names that could be considered, including Jose Rodriguez Jr., the C.I.A. official who ordered the destruction of the videotapes; the psychologists who devised the torture regimen; and the C.I.A. employees who carried out that regimen.

(more)

[True Blue Door]

1. We can hope - hope - that Obama's newfound courage

now that all possibility of legislative change has been removed, will extend this far.

[elias49]

2. Wow! I'm impressed!

Interesting, though, that it represents "The editorial board' - no-one in particular. No specific name. In fairness, they do link to pics and bios of the "Board" - like 20 or so board members. But - like firing squads where no-one really knows who pulled the deadly trigger - no single person will own up to a controversial and challenging statement.

[jhart3333]

11. It doesn't work like that

They all signed off on it.

[Jackpine Radical]

33. Exactly. They're saying, in effect, that this is the opinion of the Board,

not just that of one writer. It's a much more powerful statement than a single random opinion by an editorial writer. And if some of the board did not share the views expressed, they would no doubt be free to write a "minority opinion" defending the torturers. They did not.

[Scootaloo]

3. How sanctimonious of them n/t

[deurbano]

9. They should remember those "folks" had a "tough job."

[Demeter]

21. And the Unwavering Support of the NY Times

[deurbano]

36. At least the NYT is calling torture by its real name, now. Baby steps.

Wouldn't want to expect too much from the "newspaper of record."

[grasswire]

4. BOOM!!

Bush gets a pass to protect the office of POTUS, but the others must be jittery tonight.

Yoo seems to be the weak link. Squeeze him.

[PSPS]

5. Sorry, but we have more important things to care about: SONY!!1111!

[Hoppy]

6. Should Al Gonzalez's name be added to the list?

[grasswire]

12. what about Condi Rice? nt

[on point]

38. Condi and Gonzalez both should be added. Condi was on board that approved torture

Condi should also be charged for the War Crime of Aggression, as she was one of the liars that fabricated evidence to attack Irag. But that is a different war crime than the torture one. Either one though should see her in prison for life.

[sabrina 1]

56. There is a court case in a Spanish Court listing six of the torturers. Gonzales' name is

on that list. But yes, Condi and Gonzales, Wolfoqitz, Rummy who were told sat in on a 'torture session' in Gitmo, Feith, Ledeen and all the perps who lied and tortured or supported it, should be prosecuted according to their role, direct/indirect etc.

The Spanish Case was stalled, according to the Wikileaks Cables, when this administrations pressured Spain to stop it.

However, it was not dismissed and could be revived at any time.

[grasswire]

57. yes, Feith, Ledeen, and probably Bremer, too. nt

[sabrina 1]

58. Bremer absolutely, he was a war criminal who incited violence of huge proportions

with his 'decisions' about 'free speech' in Iraq, and never was compelled to answer for the missing 9 billion dollars which belonged to the Iraqi people.

Massive crimes were committed and still no one has been held accountable. Except for Whistle Blowers. That is shameful.

[grasswire]

59. I still think Ledeen's daughter was probably a crook, too

She was responsible for handling a lot of that "walking around money". She was a bona fide freeper then, a member of freerepublic and posting.

[rhett o rick]

61. I agree with your list but we must include those that actually held people down while others poured

the water. Those that swung the sticks that broke bones. Those that tortured children. Following orders can not be allowed to suffice as a defense.

Those that refused to go along are the patriots and heroes and should be rewarded. Those that went along should be punished.

[Jesus Malverde]

7. DU Rec

Jesus

[Hoppy]

18. You're right. Nothin' happens without it being God's will.

God wouldn't have let George, Dick, Condi, John and the rest pull the shit in Iraq if he didn't want it to happen.

Let the above list go free and indict Jesus.

[Jesus Malverde]

19. wooosh

Jesus Malverde

[Iggo]

26. LOL.

[grasswire]

8. the curious thing is that Jeb declared for the presidency...

.....when this all is swirling around. Seems odd.

[Demeter]

22. To shut it down, once and for all

Delay it for two years, then extinguish it.

Hell, the NYT could be out of business by then....the paper and news business being what it is.

[grahamhgreen]

10. Failure to prosecute torture is actually a crime in and of itself.

[Scuba]

16. +1

[grasswire]

13. kick

Most important story in years.

[Hissyspit]

14. kick nt

[Scuba]

15. K&R

[Scuba]

17. In case you haven't seen it, here's the White House petition to prosecute the torturers

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prosecute-full-extent-law-all-parties-responsible-use-torture-outlined-cia-report/17ZgKTtB

[Trillo]

28. I was gonna sign that.

So, I remembered that I had an account there. Better login first. This is what I got.

Please reset your password
Recently, you may have heard about a new Internet security weakness, known as Heartbleed, which is impacting some websites. There’s no indication that Heartbleed has been used against We the People or that any personal information has ever been at risk. However, we’re resetting current passwords out of an abundance of caution to ensure the protection of your information.

I just wanted to sign the petition. I didn't want to jump through hoops.

[Scuba]

29. Routinely resetting passwords is an excellent practice.

Signed: Longtime IT Type

[hootinholler]

32. Routinely resetting passwords

Does little to make anything more secure and promotes people writing them down which makes them less secure.

Signed: Really Longtime IT type

[RoccoR5955]

53. Ditto from a 25 year IT Pro! n/t

[cilla4progress]

34. I just signed it no problem

Haven't had an account there in years.

[Frustratedlady]

31. Done. I wonder why they have so few that signed up? eom

[LondonReign2]

20. Kick

[WillyT]

23. Huge K & R !!!

[One_Life_To_Give]

24. If the information was really worth torture

then spending 5yrs in prison is a small price to pay. Should make an effective check on our servants deciding if it is really necessary or not. Think we all agree that they would quickly conclude it is not justified.

[IHateTheGOP]

25. The actual punishment is execution

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld should be in prison awaiting execution for war crimes, treason, torture, violations of international law, and violations of the U. S. Constitution. Oh, and by the way, if we need anyone to "pull the switch" I volunteer.

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. I know I am in the minority here; but ...

I fully support the prosecution of "the bosses", from those that signed off on the torture, through those that encouraged the signing off on those acts, to those that sought out permission to commit those act, to those that ordered/directed the acts to be carried out ... but I do not support the prosecution of those in the military "underlings" (excluding, contractors) that actually carried out the acts.

The military personnel that actually carried out the acts of torture, were doing so under orders. Yes, I know ... no "soldier" is required to carry out unlawful orders; but that's just it ... the orders WERE deemed lawful.

Who among us, after years of rote following of orders (up to and including pulling a trigger or flying a drone), would subject ourselves to imprisonment, or worse, for refusing orders, deemed lawful? If that were the case, there would be no military actions that involved the taking of human life (not that that would be a bad thing).

[Bluenorthwest]

30. That was the defense specifically rejected by the US at Nuremberg

Nuremberg Principle IV, "defense of superior orders" is not a defense for war crimes, although it might influence a sentencing authority to lessen the penalty. Nuremberg Principle IV states:

"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. I realize that ...

the defense was rejected a Nuremberg; but, I suspect the rejection was more of political and prosecutorial expediency, rather for the service of "justice", as it removed the question of how far up the "feed chain" the defense would apply.

I realize the problem still applies in this instance; but, again, these are just my thoughts on the matter of justice.

For example, would we prosecute the executioner (in a death penalty case), where it was determined that the conviction and, subsequent, execution were the result of prosecutorial misconduct?

[deurbano]

44. Probably should be on a case by case basis. I think there should be some accountability for all...

but much more for the masterminds and those higher up in the chain of command. However, some underlings seemed to add their own depravity to the mix.

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. Agreed. n/t

[johnnyreb]

35. Torture is the lie-factory for the war of lies.

Zelikow admits that "quite a bit, if not most" of its information on the 9/11 conspiracy "did come from the interrogations."

http://web.archive.org/web/20080407223205/http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/30/624314.aspx

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Yes. Both the bosses and "Ordinary men" and "Willing executioners".

[blackspade]

40. This can't happen soon enough.

[DeSwiss]

41. What a load of BULLSHIT.

And coming these assholes of all people.

I used to think George was being hyperbolic when he said this country is finished.

He was understating it.

- We were finished a long time ago.


Karma's a bitch and then you die..........

[grasswire]

42. what part do you think is bullshit?

I'm not quite understanding you.

[Voice for Peace]

43. Wow. I am impressed.

[spanone]

46. america deserves / needs it.

[hifiguy]

47. All of whom should be promptly hanged

after a scrupulously and exquisitely fair trial in The Hague. Their guilt is abundantly clear, based on Cheney's own words, but legal niceties DO matter.

[99th_Monkey]

48. Yes, and not only is their guilt clear

Thanks to The Dick Cheney, we know that they's "do it again in a minute"

[Dopers_Greed]

49. K&R

[Ryan Fitzomething]

50. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Woo? Definitely!

George W. Bush? Well, how can one prosecute a man with a 60 IQ?

[blkmusclmachine]

51. Torture's bosses now include ... Obama.

[DirkGently]

52. If we don't, we're all agreeing we'll do it again. n/t

[staggerleem]

54. Not gonna happen.

It would open the door for the prosecution of Barack Obama for the drone-murder of American citizens. Name a possible Republican Presidential candidate who would NOT be pleased as punch to build his campaign around prosecuting Obama for murder.

[BeanMusical]

55. Well we have to look forward doncha know?

[WheelWalker]

60. Meet the NYTimes Editorial Board...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/opinion/editorialboard.html

[Erda]

62. It is very difficult to prosecute war criminals within your own government,

when there are so many of them. It takes more than the political will of one president or a few principled individuals. The Bush Administration was corrupt from the top down. Its officials are still well regarded even now and still quite powerful. The American public, brainwashed by television and movies lauding and glamorizing torture, and still fearful of another terror attack, to a large extent agrees with torture when necessary. And, name a president reckless enough to go after the CIA.

Nazi war criminals were prosecuted by outside forces, not from within.

It would take a ground swell of people demanding this. At this point, I don't think enough people are focused on prosecutions -- they're still trying to pay the mortgage or find work.