If we do not pull together on DU, we will fly apart.

[MineralMan]

I'm at the end of my Saturday in front of the computer. I just finished the writing of a major website project, and am about to settle down with a strong gin and tonic, but I'm going to leave with the title of this OP hanging in the air.

America fucked up in 2014 and handed over control of Congress to the Republicans. There are many reasons for that, but the bottom line is that we flat did not elect enough Democrats to even retain control of the Senate. In 2015, nobody has to run for office in Congress. What is going to come out of this Congress is going to be as ugly as three piles of dog crap. Worse, President Obama will have to sign some of it just to keep the country running.

If DU reacts by attacking the President even more harshly and attacking the Democrats in Congress, we are going to end up in 2016 with a Republican President and an even larger GOP majority in Congress. If the Democrats on this forum descend to in-fighting and ugliness, it will mean that the same is happening elsewhere, too.

In 2016, there is a strong risk of losing everything to the Republicans. Are we willing to allow that to happen, or will we fight to recover? I don't know. We'll see. I'm less than optimistic, though.

Let's all please think before we attack other Democrats. Please. Let's start pulling together to attempt to recover from what happened in 2014. Please. If we cannot, we will lose it all, I'm certain.

I will not be replying in this thread until later this evening. I'm tired, depressed, and frustrated. However, a project is all but finished, needing only proofreading and minor editing before being finished. I'll do that tomorrow. Maybe my mood will improve. Maybe it will not. This thread may be what makes the difference.

Please, let's work together for the next two years.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. If the Democrats in the Senate and Obama in the White House spend the next two

years making deals that move this country even further right I will attack and attack and attack and attack.

[MineralMan]

2. Yes, I'm confident that you will do just that.

That's a pity. Truly.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. And I am confident that you wil embrace each compromise with patronizing explanations about why it

is the right thing to do. Dust off those pom-poms, you're gonna need them.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

8. Many on DU are not Democrats, remember that.

I dont mean the ones that scream at Obama all the time about being 3rd way, though some of those are certainly undercover rovian minions, but most are just misdirected people who think they have the luxury of allowing a republican to take office while we get the perfect candidate.

Ever wonder why you see VERY few minority anti mainstream Dem party, or those types? Something to do about not having the luxury or the complexion with the protection to allow a republican to destroy everything....



If we cant come together, President Mitt Romney will kill 100,000 women with backroom abortions...right?

I mean can anyone tell me they are CERTAIN that wont happen?

Surely you all understand the mitt's and teapartiers of the world would have NO problem AT ALL allowing those deaths, right?

[Warren Stupidity]

18. these "many of us" vote Democratic every fucking election, thank you, we just aren't going to shut

Last edited Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:49 AM - Edit history (1)

the fuck up while our corrupt party of corporate minions takes the opportunity handed to them by the 2014 election to snuggle up in bed with their republican "opponents" and enact a bunch of corrupt awful legislation. Fuck that. Fuck being silent about it and fuck all the loyalty oath my party right or wrong bullshit posts.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

77. Wasnt talking about you and those in your camp, talking about rightwing trolls here to

pounce when a liberal gets emotional

[11 Bravo]

261. I've been here for 12 years, and I'm still trying to determine ...

who is in what camp. You've got it all figured out in less than one month. Impressive!

[L0oniX]

299. +1

[L0oniX]

95. Did you even know you had a "camp"?

[Autumn]

112. Wait... are we going camping? I'll go as long as I don't have to cook.

I don't do that crap anymore.

[L0oniX]

117. As long as we are in Warren Stupidity's camp we'll never have to cook.

[Autumn]

118. Hot damn!! At last I am in the right camp.

[cwydro]

291. I love camping!

And I cook!

[TheKentuckian]

303. I'll cook, you get wood.

[Autumn]

304. You cook, someone else gets the wood and I'll mix the drinks.

Then you and I will drink them.

[L0oniX]

314. I'll bring the weed.

[Autumn]

316. I'll bring the hooka.

[TheKentuckian]

360. Down like Charlie Brown. I take a large glass loaded with ice, between a 1/3 to 1/2 Elijah Craig,

fill the almost of the rest with cranberry juice, and throw a splash of ginger ale in there for me and we are golden.

[Warren Stupidity]

193. Sit down and shut up.

Gosh it reminds me of 2002 and 2006 and 2010. It reminds me of cheering on Joe fucking Lieberman and his pom pom brigade as they made nice with Bush, 'cause that's what grown ups do. It reminds me of being told to shut the fuck up while they signed on for yet another extension of the tax cuts for the very wealthy because otherwise, horrors, the meanies would shut the government down, which they did anyway. It reminds me of cheering on the horrible Romney Care ACA as the only way to get bipartisan support while zero republicans voted for their own version of "universal" health care, and now we are stuck with defending it. Yeah the fucking geniuses and grownups are in charge.

[Scuba]

203. +1,000

[adirondacker]

220. +1000!!!. I recall getting into to it with the Lieberman fan club. Of course this also entailed

Dealing with the Clinton fan club since he AND she both endorsed the fuckwit.

[L0oniX]

244. +1000 more

[truebluegreen]

329. I'm in for another 1000!

[840high]

135. You expressed how I feel.

[brush]

174. Sounds like you need to take a break from the dems . . .

and start your own party or join a third party.

[TBF]

177. If progressives give in we will have

2 republican parties - the so called "democrats" who are republican-light (like Obama) and the official "republicans" who I like to refer to as the crazy train.

As a socialist I would just as soon see it all burned down as live with that option so I'm pulling for the progressives at this point. If they fail this country is going to be so miserable that we will all be ready for revolution.

[sendero]

222. Exactly...

.. anyone who thinks right wing corporate owned Democrats are one red **** hair better than a Republican is a moron.

I'm voting for Progressives from now on. If none are running, none get my vote.

I'd sooner get this over with (the complete fleecing of the population) so we can do something about it rather than engage in the "frog in a pot of water" death by a thousand cuts we are getting from corporate Democrats.

Not only are they dragging the country down, they are doing it as DEMOCRATs, which makes the two parties seems almost the same, thus destroying the Democratic political brand. Why vote for a Dem if Dems and Reps are both for gutting Social Security? If they are both for giving the store to the banksters.

Those who insist that we must fight for our party crack me up. The only fighting worth doing is getting more Progressive candidates to run, and getting out the vote for them. Corporate Democrats are not worth doing anything for.

[L0oniX]

246. OFFS ...yea ...if you don't like it then leave. Perfect!

[Demit]

24. I'm a Democrat who's old enough to remember what Democrats used to stand for.

So, yeah, when I see Democrats in power not standing up for Democratic principles, when I see them going along with what Republicans have ALWAYS stood for, I'm going to criticize. You bet your ass I am.

I'm not your fictional character who's looking for the perfect candidate. I'm a Democrat who wants Democrats with the balls to be Democrats.

[BootinUp]

52. So what like 40, 50 years ago?

Is that when real Democrats last existed?

[spyker29]

62. Im also curious about exactly who the "real" democrats were.

It may help to understand why so many seem to find our current democratic leaders undesirable.

[roguevalley]

127. google it. They were there. Now, they are owned in bulk by Corporate amerikkka.

[RKP5637]

141. Exactly! And many have succumbed that this is the norm. It should not be.

It does not have to be this way. We have totally become USA, Inc. and most Americans are now tools of corporate America, guppies doing their bidding.

[Babel_17]

213. President Truman: He had to scramble to find a way to support himself

President Truman: He had to scramble to find a way to support himself after he left office. He had no cushy paybacks from Big Money waiting for him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman#Post-presidency

[backwoodsbob]

255. a certain senator from minesota would be a good start

of course he is gone.....we need about 60 like him in the senate

[appalachiablue]

138. Senator Edward Moore Kennedy (1932-2009)

[BootinUp]

139. Sure, he never compromised, lol. nt

[merrily]

219. You asked for real Democrats. Are you denying Kennedy fit that description?

Or are you just moving the goal post after someone met your deceitful challenge?

[merrily]

202. No, traditional Democrats still exist. It's New Democrats who veered away.

Hence the name "NEW" Democrats.

[Mojorabbit]

83. +1000 nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

233. So am I ...

"Welfare to work", internment camps, segregation, jim crow, and all that, depending how far back you wish to go.

Let's not romanticize the Democratic Party ... It has NEVER been as we now wish to remember it, except now, others now feel gored.

[DCBob]

43. well said.

[okaawhatever]

47. +10,000 nt

[L0oniX]

97. Only those that vote D no matter what are true Dems.

Check.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

104. Who said that? But if you vote in such a way that Mitt romney or rand paul can be

elected, then you are doing what?

Ask someone who doesnt have that luxury, a woman who could die from an abortion or a minority who could lose rights...

[merrily]

207. Choice matters. So does food, fuel, etc. Can we stop pretending social issues are ALL that matter?

Last edited Sun Dec 14, 2014, 09:53 AM - Edit history (1)

The SCOTUS gave us choice.

ETA: Besides, you said the exact same thing seriously as Loonix said sarcastically, just changed the wording. So the answer to "What said that?" is you did.

[Mnpaul]

121. Mitt makes money off abortions

see: Stericycle

I doubt he would want to get rid of that.

[JonLP24]

349. Remember you're saying this in response

to criticizing bad deals. What is wrong with that?

The problem with Obama is he'll start a lot of negotiations with Republican goodies, especially income tax breaks for the wealthy. I can't remember the exact details--Obama called it the "grand bargain". It included investment into job, closing tax loopholes, and a payroll tax cut -- things aimed at building the middle class which I genuinely believes he tries to do. The deal was rejected because there was no heads up given on a deal--baffling reason if you ask me. Boehner said it was "tax-and-spend liberal goodies" It was actually tax cut & spending specifically on things that help (every President spends the money on something, what matters is what is it being spent on) us and the economy. Unless you call closing loopholes taxing.

I don't fault him for the deal and would have supported it even though it was a better deal for Republicans. A bigger problem was when the unemployment extension to it.

The reason why I mention is it included the payroll tax cut, for years marketed as something to help the middle class. It does by giving people more money to spend but only if it is temporary, too many payroll tax cuts will lead to social security being cut. However, when he let it simply expire Republicans went crazy calling it a "tax hike on the middle class" which is funny considering Grover Norquist went out of his way to say an expiration doesn't count as a tax hike because Republicans weren't fond of the idea to begin with but to be fair mainstream Democrats seem to love the payroll tax cut because it makes Republicans look like hypocrites. I really can't believe the political landmines that involve the payroll tax cut debate. Bernie Sander's formally mainstream but now fringe idea on social security is much more sensible.

[NewDeal_Dem]

82. I have no more room to embrace compromise. 4 months in the hospital with a rare

& totally unexpected disease, 3 more months recoup time, the loss of my job & most of my savings, as well as my physical and mental stamina, means more compromise = death.

[tblue]

156. Oh, dear ND_D.

Get better soon, sweetie.

[840high]

188. I am so sorry.

[Katashi_itto]

217. You should post more Pro Police threads promoting the status quo. It will make everyone feel better

Let's all pull together and vote for another corporate whore!

GO 3rd WAY DEMS!

[L0oniX]

243. LMFAO +1

[hfojvt]

258. What is the real pity?

What Warren does on the internet, or what Obama does from the White House?

Obama MUST sign some of it. Okay fine, but does he need to LOBBY for some of it? Does he always need to be pushing on the WRONG side, in the WRONG direction?

[SamKnause]

16. I am right there with you.

Republicans will accomplish everything they wanted with help from the president and our so called 'Democratic' politicians.

I am sick of the games !!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen the interview by Bill Moyers with John R. MacArthur.

He explains in simple terms what is happening in DC.

It is a real eye opener.

[CrispyQ]

21. From yesterday?

http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-democrats-bow-wall-street/

[SamKnause]

27. Yes, thank you for posting the link.

[CrispyQ]

30. I love Bill & wish he was on a different night, or that they would show it again during the week.

I'm old school - I like sitting in my comfy chair to watch it instead of in my desk chair, but I will check it out. Bill is always good & has great guests. Thanks!

[SamKnause]

32. Your are very welcome.

I would love to have your input after you have watched the interview.

[octoberlib]

26. Here's the the interview for anyone who wants to watch

Bill Moyers interview with John R. MacArthur of Harpers magazine

http://vimeo.com/114336508

[SamKnause]

29. Thank you for posting the video.

I do not know how to copy and paste when I have two windows open.

I have to manually type in the link information.

[octoberlib]

36. I just watched it and found out some things I didn't know. I'm going to have to read his book.

[SamKnause]

41. Did you also watch the 17 minute web interview.

The original interview went long so they continued the interview on the web.

The entire interview was definitely an eye opener.

Thank you.

[octoberlib]

48. No, Thanks for telling me about it!

[SamKnause]

51. You are very welcome.

I wish there was some way to get the masses to watch the entire interview.

I would love your input.

[mackerel]

99. I just retweeted it so that might help attract more attention.

[SamKnause]

103. Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!

[aspirant]

71. Who are the progressives elites he refers to?

[roguevalley]

126. I'm with Warren. The only thing evil needs to triumph is the silence of good people.

[merrily]

208. Enabling, defending, trying to silence critics, etc. goes well beyond mere silence.

[L0oniX]

247. I would add: compromise with the devil.

The only thing evil needs to triumph is the silence of good people.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. It is the responsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable.

Even Democrats. As far as DU giving the White House to the Republicans in 2016...methinks you overestimate the power of DU.

[arcane1]

5. Let's start by telling Jim Moran to STFU and get with the program

He is, after all, attacking Democrats for doing the right thing.

(By "right" I mean "correct&quot

[merrily]

209. The Moran who voted for the environment bill while Reid, Schumer and others voted against it?

Naw, I'll give him a break for the weekend.

[99Forever]

6. Pre-emptive excuse making.

Nice!

[rhett o rick]

148. Exactly. "If we don't 'pull together' and HRC loses, it's all your fault." or "Maybe we have to get

Nader back to blame."

[99Forever]

155. Shit gets old..

...doesn't it?

[rhett o rick]

160. They have nothing but derision. They can't discusses the TPP, fracking, the Patriot Act, indefinite

detention, NSA spying and now torture. Those that think the Pres can do no wrong are backed into a corner over this torture report. They know deep in their heart that torturing children is wrong but Pres Obama seems to be saying it wasn't that big of a deal. We were scared and therefore we didn't have to be moral.

[L0oniX]

251. ^^^this^^^

[helpmetohelpyou]

7. Obama should just switch parties and get it over with..

He' a republican through and through when it really comes down to it.

[L0oniX]

157. LMFAO ...yer asking for it ain't cha.

careful ...some fucks will alert on ya for that.

[Quantess]

170. Now, now. We tortured some folks, get over it.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

317. Cha, indeeed.

Mahalo.

[tblue]

159. I wonder how long it would take before

they'd embrace him. They are so good at party unity. I wonder what it must be like.

[rhett o rick]

297. If Chris Christie became a Democrat, they'd be all over him with praise.

Everyone chooses the level of reality they accept. Some don't want to think past: "Democrat good, Republican bad."

[L0oniX]

323. LMFAO

[hrmjustin]

9. It really depends on what the compromises are and how the primary goes.

Du unfortunately is very divided and will remain so through the primaries.

[Rye Bread Pizza]

10. I will not betray my principles just to help the lesser of two evils win. n/t

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

13. Good, and if a republican president appooints a SC justice who overturns roe and your

neighbor dies in a backroom abortion, will you still be OK with your decision?

Or if that same repub president destroys the voting rights act and all but eliminates minority voting rights?

[Rye Bread Pizza]

34. Hyperbole much? n/t

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

79. Ahh, so that is an insane thing I said, cant happen. Got it...i dont know who I get angrier at,

those who know nothing, or those who know and should know better.

[Rye Bread Pizza]

108. Yes it is insane and not going to happen. Want to know why?

Because I saw the same hysteria with Reagan, Bush & Bush II.
I know the opposition are not the neanderthals we like to construct here on DU to amuse ourselves.
I have said before that we are not going to win hearts and minds by preaching to the choir in an echo chamber which seems to be the OP's wishes.
I would also like to add that if we are going to win over hearts and minds we need to understand that the people we oppose, even though we oppose them, are still people.
The occasional win by the opposition is not going to turn our country into Puritan England under Cromwell.
If we are going to win, we need to show the independents that our way is better, not by trying to vilify and revile the opposition.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

111. So you think thomas, scalia, roberts and alito wouldnt overturn roe?

[Rye Bread Pizza]

133. Nope. n/t

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

320. sigh

[Rye Bread Pizza]

333. Roe v Wade has been on the books for over 40 years

They are not going to just strike it from the books. The absolute most that may happen is a restriction on late term abortions.
How much money would you have lost betting that Roberts would have voted against the ACA?

[Hekate]

337. The Voting Rights Act was on the books a long time, too, and look at it now. Also...

Please get this straight:

THERE ARE ALREADY RESTRICTIONS ON LATE TERM ABORTIONS. THERE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.
ROE VS. WADE WAS WRITTEN WITH RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE FROM THE 4TH MONTH ONWARD.
LATE TERM ABORTIONS ARE PRACTICALLY NON-EXISTENT, AND ARE ONLY USED IN EXTREME MEDICALLY NECESSARY CASES.

What the anti-choice zealots want to do is ban all abortions for any reason at all, and in places where they have won they are now working on banning most popular forms of contraception by lying about contraception being an abortifacient. Contraceptive means are not abortions, because they prevent pregnancy, but try telling that to one of those fanatics.

The anti-choice movement has managed to eliminate a legal medical procedure, one necessary to many women in their lifetimes, from safe access throughout most of the country. This hits hardest on rural women, who must often travel overnight to a large city.

What you describe as "the absolute most that may happen" has actually been on the books since Day One, and for good reason. Late-term abortion, as I said, is extremely rare. It is a dangerous procedure for women, and difficult for doctors.

Anti-choice zealots are not concerned with that fact; what they want -- and what they are getting -- is an outright ban on all abortions, and for Plan B (which is not an abortion, but a contraceptive), and IUDs, and birth control pills. Anytime you see a "personhood amendment" on the ballot, understand that it will grant full personhood not only to a one-day blastocyst, but will ban the means of preventing that blastocyst from forming in the first place.

At least 4 of our current Supreme Court Justices are in favor of eliminating Roe vs. Wade. Whoever thought they would help overturn the Voting Rights Act; whoever thought they would assert that unlimited money from even foreign corporations is equivalent to free speech when donated to political campaigns? Yet they have done so.

[Rye Bread Pizza]

339. Two hysterical voices for the price of one. Awesome.

The Anti-choice zealots are merely a very vocal minority. They are not going to turn the US into a theocracy. All this hysteria looks silly and probably hurts our chances of electing good people into office.

btw, the Voting Rights Act is still on the books.

[aspirant]

341. Anti-choice = Pro-slavery

[Rye Bread Pizza]

342. Perfect example of hysteria

A RW hysteric would say Pro-choice = Anti-life.
Anybody seeing a pattern here?

"My country right or wrong" is stupid. But OP and others seem to think that "My party right or wrong" is OK.

I view the opposition as misguided people that need to be educated.

Some think the opposition are vile neanderthals that need to be insulted, degraded, and viciously fought at every quarter by any means necessary.

So look in the mirror and ask yourself one question? Which view is more likely to lead to atrocities?

Done here. Anything else we will just have to agree to disagree.

[aspirant]

345. But I'm agreeing with you

Anti-choice= no choice at all = no abortions, only 1 way and their way is no.

Pro-slavery= no choice at all = no freedom, therefore

Anti-choice = Pro-slavery

Maybe I read your posts wrong.

[Hekate]

346. The anti-choice movement has terrorists in its ranks who murder doctors, stalk the children of ...

....clinic workers, vandalize clinics and block clinic access.

No hysteria here, just cold hard facts. Either you are being disingenuous or you are vastly ignorant. Educate yourself and don't waste our time.

[freshwest]

294. They don't need to do it. The Tenthers dealing out all kinds of evil in the states, as planned.

[CrispyQ]

35. What if a democratic president were to expand the drone program

killing thousands of innocent people on the other side of the globe? Does that matter? What if a democratic president were to cut social programs while approving a bill that bails out the shyster banksters? Does that matter?

How do you argue levels of evil? What evils do you tolerate?

Do you think one can have social justice without economic justice? I don't, because the very people who need social justice most, are the ones most adversely affected by economic inequality.

[RKP5637]

147. I can support democrats that pull their noses out of republican butts than those

that follow them so closely. I can support democratic candidates that support the base and shift the paradigm in this country leftward to benefit "we the people." The rest of the democrats that can't do this, I have little use for. In my book they are pseudo republicans and I will not support them or vote for them.

[Feral Child]

40. OK, your scenario might come true.

I have to laugh though, there isn't anything but the Saved within 30 miles of my place. Seriously.

Here's one for you:

How about if we elect someone self-identifying as a Democrat, and she lets the Patriot Act run, promises she'll make the DEA back off cannabis, especially medical cannabis where it's legal but never does anything like that, fails to prosecute bankers and war-criminals, allows government lands to be used for grazing without collecting fees, promises clean energy but allows frackers to operate unregulated, and puts our troops back into danger in the ME?

Does that seem possible?

[RiverLover]

206. Gee, whoever could you be talking about...hmmm...I might need another clue

I kid! That is a nightmare possibility. Go ABC Anyone But Clinton!!!

[Feral Child]

221. (Grinning)

Whilst noting some documented actions by an un-named Democrat president, I have indeed extrapolated those actions with a particular candidate in mind, that to avoid vindictive haggling and and charges of undermining a Democrat candidate.

I have had some problems with what I perceive to be "stalking alerts". I doubt seriously that I can successfully evade those fans in the long run.

I believe that our party has been infiltrated by Dinos and that the possibility exists that we'll never field a true Democrat again. I have considered changing allegiance to the Socialist Party due to that concern.

If HRC is nominated to run, I will be tempted to abstain from voting. I'll repeat, for my fans, that I will never vote for a Republican for any office. I am a union-legacy Democrat.

If there are primary candidates running against Clinton, I will pick one of them to vote for.

I believe that Clinton has a personal platform that conflicts with the expectations of the rank and file members of the party. I will only vote for her if the opposition candidate is so odious, so dangerous, so insane that he must be defeated at all costs.

BUT I state categorically that I will never vote against her or any other candidate put forward by the Democratic Party.

[Gothmog]

44. Roe v. Wade is one vote away from being history

We have already lost key provisions of the voting rights act

[BlueCaliDem]

131. BINGO. Too bad a few around here refuse to see it. Much too focused on evil Obama, of course.

Or those evil Dems. Republicans rarely get scrutinized by that same group, I've noticed. It's all Obama all the time.

[freshwest]

295. Well, Obama and the Democrats are Omnipotent and Omnipresent, LOL!

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

~ Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Since we're all better than those we crucify.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Didn't you used to write for '24'?

nt

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

78. So that isnt a real possibility? REALLY?

[L0oniX]

249. As long as they stop the Martian invasion I'm good with that.

I love hyperbole too.

[LanternWaste]

350. I imagine one's decision on whom to vote for is predicated on either...

I imagine one's decision on whom to vote for is predicated on either the courage of their own convictions to better ensure candidate A elected, or on a utilitarian strategy to avoid getting candidate X elected.

It would be petulant for me to recriminate a voter for doing either one, though I certainly realize that many people will rationalize a creative criticism for holding other voter's principles to a higher standard than party loyalty, and frame that conviction by its failures alone.

[DCBob]

60. The GOP thanks you for your support.

[Rye Bread Pizza]

137. And I am sure that any DINOs will thank you.

I want to fight an opposition that I know is wrong. Not a smiling DINO that will do more damage on the inside before we can vote them out.

[Autumn]

11. We should pull together on DU as long as it's your way?

Okay.

[99Forever]

14. Yep.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Oilwellian]

55. First he was against us

before he was for us.

LOL

[Doctor_J]

63. yep. cheer for food stamp cuts and TPP and pension cuts and school privatization

or it's your fault. Hilarious, but common thinking in some circles.

[Autumn]

66. I don't have to worry about the party. After over 40 years as a Democrats I changed to

unaffiliated yesterday. I will never vote for a republican but I won't vote for a DINO either.

[CrispyQ]

236. Look out!

You will be deluged with flyers in the mail, phone calls for money or your opinion, and canvassers from both parties ringing your doorbell. I know cuz I changed in summer of 2013.

Even though it depicts Obama, this cartoon is indicative of the democratic party since Ronny Reagan.



There is no opposition party anymore. The dems are in bed with the banksters, and there is no one who represents labor anymore.

[Autumn]

262. I'll just work my little paper shredder overtime.

I tell you, after I left the DMV I felt like a new person. It was like I took the power to let them know I will not play their game any longer. My Husband said the next time we go to the DMV he's going to switch to the Green Party. I'll look into them and then I may just go with him and switch too.

[L0oniX]

340. If Hillary wins the primary I will be joining you.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

80. Cheer? Show me ONE PERSON on DU who cheers for ANY of those, please do that or admit

that is just nonsense, please.

[rhett o rick]

149. You are so right. Those that accept the Conservative Democrats crap don't actually cheer

they just nod and accept. If you support the Third Way, the DLC, the New DEmocrats, etc. then you are accepting the status quo. You may not be cheering for the foodstamp cuts but you apparently aren't bothered by it. Obama and Clinton and the Third Way Conservative Democrats don't give a crap about the 99%. They answer to Wall Street. Eric Holder didn't prosecute Wall Street crime but spent his time prosecuting medical marijuana dispensers in state where it was legal. If you support Holder and Obama then you must be ok with that.

[creeksneakers2]

218. Interesting article posted last night

It was promoted because there were negatives for Hillary, but in the article its shown how distant Obama is from Wall Street and how little he cooperates with them.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/12/wall-street-white-house-republicans-lament-of-the-plutocrats-101047.html#ixzz3LnZQqUls

[randome]

224. Politics. It's important to maintain ties with Wall Street, no matter one's personal opinion.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

237. Your implication that Democrats don't want to maintain ties with Wall Street is a Strawman.

Democrats want to REGULATE Wall Street. HRC wants to give Wall Street carte blanche control.

I think we are seeing the split in our Party. The Warren Wing wants regulations on Wall Street and H. Clinton and the Wall Street Wing don't want any controls (trickle-down)

[Doctor_J]

176. ok, how about, "shut up about torture and TPP and school privatization"

What do you think the op meant?

[aspirant]

76. It's sunnier on our side of the street

[rhett o rick]

96. You heard that too? Let's all pull together and support H. Clinton-Sachs or the world will

end.

[Autumn]

100. What I'm hearing is "let's work together for the next two years".

So STFU cause some bad shits coming down the pike. America fucked up but don't be picking on the democrats or Obama when he is forced to sign this crap ( like the bill that I like to call the citigroup bill that Obama at long last learned how to twist arms to get votes for it) because if we don't blargle blargle blargle and GOTV right fucking now! Well I added the last part "and GOTV right fucking now!"

[Demit]

12. Are you suggesting that there be no criticism of elected Democrats?

And if you are, can you explain how such unswerving approval will result in avoiding disaster (which, I take it, is a Republican President and an even larger GOP majority in 2016)?

[Teamster Jeff]

15. There will be consequences for abandoning working people and serving Wall Street and the 1%

It could be ugly but this is the fight we need.

[bvar22]

54. There have already been consequences for abandoning working people...

...and serving Wall Street and the 1%.

SEE: 2010, 2014

[CrispyQ]

17. If democrats don't want to be attacked they should stand for democratic ideals.

Torture is not a democratic ideal.
Taxpayer funded bailouts for the banksters is not a democratic ideal.
Taking minimal action on climate change is not a democratic ideal.
Cutting social programs during economic hardship is not a democratic ideal.
Abandoning labor is not a democratic ideal.


We will find out what kind of democrat Obama is the next two years. Will he use his veto pen or will he use the commemorative set he uses to sign legislation?

I am sick & tired of being told that I have to vote for candidates who are obviously republican, in spite of the D behind their names, because the other republicans are worse. It is why we are in this shit pile in the first place. Voting for the lesser of two evils still gets you evil.

Candidates don't automatically get my vote anymore just cuz they're sporting a D on their jersey.

Lastly, I don't think what happens on DU will have an affect on the election. But go ahead & tell us to get in line.

[whatchamacallit]

20. +1

[Maedhros]

292. Calls for unity on DU

are simply demands to sit down and shut up about the corruption in the Party.

[MissDeeds]

321. Bingo

Agreed. I cannot understand how demanding the best from our elected officials is a bad thing. Some seem to think we should be sheeple, that we should just believe that anyone with a "D" behind his/her name is the real deal...fall in line, don't question, pull the lever. I find that to be not only stupid, but extremely dangerous.

[Maedhros]

355. I can understand the mindset.

People have convinced themselves that progressive/liberal ideals cannot be realized. Therefore, the best we can hope for is to try and slow down the conservative policies that are wrecking our country. Criticizing Democrats for taking part in the wrecking of our country only provides aid and comfort to our enemies, the Republicans. Thus, we must not criticize Democrats.

It's defeatism as a core political philosophy.

[woo me with science]

353. ^^^^^^This is the correct answer.^^^^^^

[Andy823]

19. It's already flying apart

Things here and not going to change, not for the better. There are to many parties here tying to divide the board, and more come in everyday. It's not their agenda to promote democratic ideas, or promote democrats in general. It's to continue to stir things up for whatever reason.

[whatchamacallit]

25. Not quite

Half the board promotes democratic ideals no matter what, for better or worse
And
Half promotes democrats no matter what, for better or worse

[Bobbie Jo]

31. IOW...

Half the board are progressive saints, and the other half are unprincipled hacks?

See, it's the ridiculous characterizations like this that keep us at each other's throats.

It's petty and unproductive.

[bvar22]

56. whatchamacallit pretty much NAILED IT.

Half the board promotes democratic ideals no matter what, for better or worse
And
Half promotes democrats no matter what, for better or worse .

Here is a sample post from last year by a well-known member of DU:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021128218

[Bobbie Jo]

61. Yeah

well, that doesn't change what I posted in response.

While it might make you feel superior, such exaggerations are petty and unproductive.

Pure passive-aggressive meta. Agree all you want, but it just amounts to useless board politics.

[bvar22]

64. I didn't "exaggerate" ANYTHING.

I Screen Capped the post,
and then posted a direct link to the post.

THAT is documented history.
You may dismiss documented history if you wish.
THAT is what got you where you are, so why change now?

[Bobbie Jo]

65. No

You posted a screen cap from ONE poster. That you would even HAVE something like that at the ready makes my point in spades.

[bvar22]

74. Changing the subject?

One poster with 20 recs for a post advocating abandoning the cornerstone of the modern Democratic Party?


I've been on DU a LONG time,
and have an excellent memory.


If you go back up to the OP and refresh your memory,
you will discover that this thread is about some people who put Party above principle.
I provided proof of at least one occasion.

[Bobbie Jo]

81. Nevermind

I've been here for a minute myself.

You're too wound up in the meta to see that you (and your memory) demonstrate my point.

Recs! Recs! Recs! So what???

Bottom line, hardly "half the board" and hardly a bunch of "unprincipled" hacks.

Just sick of the disingenuous, exaggerated nonsense that serve no purpose other than to make some people feel morally superior. Again, it's just petty and unproductive.

[Rex]

101. Point made. Anytime

one of them shows up and derides you like that, you know it was because the truth hurts. Notice you can provide proof and it doesn't matter they just change the subject and pretend you aren't listening.

Why anyone reads the posts of this tiny group of radicals is beyond me. Let them blindly worship whatever they want, reality has nothing to do with them.

We have more important things to do like saving the nation from investment bankers.

[Doctor_J]

171. wow. That is sort of the definition of self parody. hadn't seen that

Thanks for linking

[creeksneakers2]

223. It isn't half

Almost everybody is against Democrats here.

[freshwest]

306. Agreed. If the Republicans (the Koch brothers) take over in 2016 this will be a happy place again.

People will offer solutions how to make do in a new paradigm. Since they hate everything about the old one and all the people in it, their positive side will come out.

They will have good debates about how to implement civil libertarian ideology and forget the denial of civil rights that lead to income inequality. That complaint will be forgotten, too, because it'll be considered whining.

Happier days are ahead.

[Aerows]

22. If we have to all agree

on things that are repugnant on to our conscience, then I will be a source of dissent. Being a Democrat did not mean I signed on to excusing torture and allowing Wall Street to bankrupt our nation.

Those are not criteria that I will accept. Ever. It has been stated before far more eloquently than I can - All that is necessary for evil to flourish in the world is for good men to do nothing.

And nothing has been done.

[RKP5637]

143. Well said!!! n/t

[yallerdawg]

23. Can we disagree without being disagreeable?

The internet seems to bring out the worst in people.

If 98% of the time we agree on liberal progressive Democratic policy and action, why do we have to be so hateful on the things we have to compromise and negotiate on? We are not going to have our way 100% anyway, so, in the immortal words of HRC, "What difference does it make?"

Let's celebrate the victories and try to figure out how to or if we can change the bad outcomes.

We all know everything is dependent on how you look at it. Hell, aren't we the Party of moral relativism?

Maybe we should find the silver linings, they are there if we just look!

[cwydro]

28. Great post MM

but this forum is falling apart with the racism/racist comments coming from every direction, and directed at every race,

I thought we were better than that.

[bigtree]

33. this is an appeal for party and politics over principle

. . .you're misrepresenting the last election and conflating the results with criticisms of the President's policies and actions which you call 'attacking' him.

Off-season elections favor the discontented. Not many voters who are contented show up in those contests to vote, and this election and the last midterm were dominated by republicans and conservatives who froth with their hatred of Obama. That's not the case with people who post here, and it's a wonder that you can't see the difference.

Where your biggest mistake of understanding comes is in your assumption that DUers and other Democrats operate in some sort of pack, when Democratic voters, and DUers especially, come to politics with individual concerns; sincere and well-considered. It's a fallacy to assume that DUers failed to vote or support Democrats in this last election or any other to an extent that they should be held responsible for transferring their antipathy with some policy or the other with Democrats at the polls. In survey after survey conducted here, it has been made clear that we vote Democratic and vote regularly.

That said, it is the responsibility of Democratic candidates and office-holders to attract enough voters to the polls to vote for party or individuals; not the voter's responsibility to adjust or modify their interests or concerns to fit the political needs of candidates or office-holders. The sooner politicians get that through their narrow minds, the sooner we'll see a revolution of support for our party.

[KingCharlemagne]

124. Great post. - nt

[RKP5637]

146. Exactly!!! >>>

"... it is the responsibility of Democratic candidates and office-holders to attract enough voters to the polls to vote for party or individuals; not the voter's responsibility to adjust or modify their interests or concerns to fit the political needs of candidates or office-holders. The sooner politicians get that through their narrow minds, the sooner we'll see a revolution of support for our party."

[on point]

37. It is the DIRECTION people are fighting against, not dems per se.

However, if dems, including the president continue to head in the WRONG direction in support of wall street and other corp crooks and against the people of this country, then they need to be called out and fought against as well.

It is past time for people to be fighting against the constant cavers in the dem party

[SixString]

38. "If DU reacts by attacking the President even more harshly...

... and attacking the Democrats in Congress, we are going to end up in 2016 with a Republican President and an even larger GOP majority in Congress."

Posts on DU will never have any effect on any election.
And they certainly won't change anything that happens in D.C..

[RiverLover]

67. It is just a tiny microcosm here at DU, isn't it? Our collective influence is equal in size.

But its nice to think we could influence party decisions & policies!

[SixString]

75. It would be nice.

[Johonny]

39. When it comes to speaking out on torture and violence DU seems pretty coherently strong to me

Not much than troll noise against these two subjects and FOR VIOLENCE. People argue about the details and the current presidents response to them but that's noise in the details. DU has always argued on details and probably should. But make no mistake, overwhelmingly we as a community are for ending torture and definitive statements by our leadership on the subject. The same goes for violence against woman and other minorities whether from private citizens or those acting as agents for the state.

I figure any candidate with a strong progressive anti-violence message is going to do well here in 2016. I'm not that worried. If the Dems fail to produce that candidate... then I'd worry because the Rethugs certainly aren't going to produce that candidate.

[ChromeFoundry]

42. So basically what you are saying, is...

...blindly follow the party, no matter what?
If the people that elected him into office are "attacking" his actions, maybe it is he that needs to review his campaign promises.

The party should change to meet the interests of the people, not the other way around.

[DCBob]

45. I think its more like not overreacting..

to every compromise and negotiation and controversial decision that is needed to keep this country from collapsing into chaos.

[greatauntoftriplets]

46. Ben Franklin got it.

We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benjaminfr151597.html#p77jS2PXOedOtw2b.99

[MannyGoldstein]

73. But he wasn't including Tories in that statement. nt

Last edited Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:52 PM - Edit history (1)

[merrily]

248. Nailed it.

[dflprincess]

166. He was speaking to a group who were risking everything to take a strong and principled stand

knowing that if they failed they would be executed. This group also pledged each other "other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor".

Honor and principles are sorely lacking from the leaders of the Democratic party.

[fadedrose]

49. Sorry about your mood

mine's about the same.

I hope the Reps screw up so bad in the next two years that we take over in the 2015 election (same year Dem blue states' elections are in the majority for Senate). Another post, but too complicated to worry your tired head about now.

The financial inequality between the 1% and us, and low-paying jobs will be spotlighted in 2015. Our worries are not about gains or losses on Wall Street.
The good news about the economy NOW actually hurts us, not helps Obama.

If Warren's speech is played and replayed it will help Dems who agree with her, but won't so much help Obama because he seems to have caved and selects Citigroup officials for cabinet positions. Wonder if TPP is a Citygroup prize that they will reward with lots of campaign donations.

People have to realize that all the goodies we get in this Monstrabill, will be eaten up. Payback time. That's were our real problem lies. Whom will the payback affect and to what degree? It's gonna be bad, I know it.

Next election's ours to lose. Only another quick financial crisis will help some of us, not all, only people like Warren, Sanders, Pelozzi, R-Sen. Vitter (he came out against citigroup) and others. The people in the House who are so proud of writing this bill will be slapped silly when the sun shines on that one line about "prohibition concerning derivatives. Somebody should find that line, post it, and we should be required to memorize.

Also, people hate war, but they hate living from paycheck to paycheck and doing without doctor's visits because they can't meet the deductibles. Lots of changes needed even to Obamacare.

Can't help you, friend. If you are depressed, you are a wise person, so at least that truth should make you feel better.

[RoccoR5955]

50. Yes, let's band together around REAL Democrats.

NOT Democrats in name only.
I am not willing to stand up for Third Way Democrats, Blue Dog Democrats, or anyone other than an FDR or otherwise LIBERAL Democrat.
I feel we can do it here.
Many times I have voted for a DINO, because, and only because the alternative is repugnant.
I will vote for another, but I shall never work for one.

[Andy823]

53. And the "real" democrats are?

The ones who want to shutdown the government no matter how bad it be for millions of Americans because they "think" they might get a better bill once republicans control both the House and Senate"

The ones who constantly bash the president and the democratic party in whole day after day after day?

The ones who rec up posts that call the president a "F ing used car salesman piece of shit"?

The ones who make things up with nothing to back their claims and who refuse to link to where they got their so called facts?

The ones who constantly stir things up to keep the board divided?

The ones who call anyone who supports the president, or the party, Obamabots, authoritarians, republican trolls, etc.?

The ones who want to "PURGE" the party of anyone who doesn't meet their purity standards?

I could go on and on, but I think you get what I am saying. Who gets to pick who are and who are not "real" democrats.

[RiverLover]

57. That's easy.

Just look at the policies they support or sponsor. If they are written by lobbyists &/or benefit only industry, but hurt the majority of Americans, they're not Democrats. They're posers.

Principle must come first. Party loyalty is worthless if the party stands for nothing.

[WilliamPitt]

58. OMG DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND IS SO POWERFUL YOU GUYS

It's a web forum, so you'll pardon me if I continue to speak my mind.

Or you won't.

But that's what's going to happen.

[L0oniX]

94. LMFAO ...doncha just love being nannied.

[Autumn]

134. I don't get it. We are alway told that DU is not representative of the real world, it's

a dying site and real democrats are nothing like the lunatic fringe that post here.

[blue neen]

185. Well, you must love it,

because you can't seem to find your way off this thread.

Enjoy yourself and good night.

[L0oniX]

190. Good for you ...you finally found a post you can respond to.

[blue neen]

194. And you just proved my point.

Thank you!

[L0oniX]

235. Oh good for you.

[Andy823]

145. Yeah, yeah

Trying to unit DU, a site that is supposed to be about promoting democratic ideas, electing democrats to office and supporting the party is such a terrible idea.

[pkdu]

184. The Circle-Jerkin Lemmings are in full gallop....little hope of stopping them I'm afraid..nt

[mother earth]

68. The elephant in the room is that the people didn't fuck up, they've been fucked.

We don't have a true accounting of any election, everything is up for grabs. To say that Americans voted these bums in leaves out the facts of a completely vulnerable voting system, all measures that were taken to ensure they could steal where steals would enable their takeover were in place before the selection, those areas that were vulnerable to dem votes were changed up. It's been in practice for so long they've got it down to science.

If we are fucked, it's not because the people refused to see what's before them, its because our democracy no longer exists and yet we hold onto it's memory as though it lives, it simply does not. We are about to enter into 2015 and 2016 with all the tools the oligarchy has still in place, so don't be surprised when the two same interchangeable candidates, that serve their masters best are held up as options with MSM defining it all as if it truly is a "race". I declare HRC to be coronated, given all the torture revelations, Jeb, is just filling in as the opposition candidate for the grand show.

[sadoldgirl]

69. Let me quote EW: Enough is enough!

For crying out loud, what do you call a discussion board, where
everybody is supposed to think the same way?
Its a conformation board. The Democratic party has lost its way
a long time ago (Probably with the election of B. Clinton), and we
are supposed to support this?

And we still should call ourselves democrats?
What a concept!

I wonder how many younger people or new members
you will encourage to join or stay in DU?????

[BlueJazz]

70. I certainly hold no ill-will against anybody on this site. I may snap at someone that I think is...

..being rude but the snap is gone in seconds. I never hold a grudge on anyone who visits this site.

[MannyGoldstein]

72. We need a new Democratic Party

The current one has failed us horribly.

Unfortunately, I don't see how that change gets done without significant friction. I wish it could.

The good news is that a new version of the Party will win elections, I think, and can start rebuilding our country.

[daleanime]

84. I look at it this way...

we (Democrats) have a year or two window where we have to show people the difference between the two parties, if we fail then it's business as usual.



We are not off to a good start.

[calimary]

85. Love you, MineralMan!

Couldn't have said it better myself! Splintering is what the GOP would LOVE for us to do. We'd be doing their work for them. They YEARN for us to do it. They SALIVATE over us doing it. So let's NOT indulge them!!!

Remember: it's not JUST the White House. It's the Supreme Court. Look how "great" it's been since CONS got a majority on there - and how long it's been maintained!

[ColesCountyDem]

86. The absolute WORST Democrat is better than the best Republican!

We can stamp our feet, hold our breaths, throw hissy fits about the lack of what we perceive as liberal values among elected Democratic office holders and/or candidates, but the fact remains that only ONE person will be elected per office. To say that there is 'no difference' between Democrat X and Republican Y because they agree on Issue Z is the most damned-fool nonsense I have EVER heard. If you folks want to see the GOP's version of Christian dominionist sharia law, keep your ideological purity intact and don't vote for Democrats in 2016.

[AtomicKitten]

88. They are the same if they vote the same.

That is the measure that is relevant to our lives.

[rhett o rick]

89. Some can only evaluate as far as the label. D is good and R is bad. The Oligarch Rulers know this

so they own some D's.

[AtomicKitten]

113. IIRC Ben Nelson was the first person in Congress

to endorse then Senator Obama. Nelson provided a critical vote in passing the Bush tax cuts. That should have set off a big freaking alarm.

[ColesCountyDem]

197. And John McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts.

What sort of alarm would that have set off?

[AtomicKitten]

198. about a 10 on the bullshit meter

On this McCain was better than a Blue Dog Democrat.

[ColesCountyDem]

200. Key phrase: "On this"

McCain's overall voting record and policy positions are far less progressive than the least-progressive Democratic senator.

[ColesCountyDem]

92. But they don't vote 'the same'.

There is a certain amount of overlap among them, generally about financial or defense issues, but when it comes to social issues, etc., they rarely vote the same.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

116. Financial issues are the defining ones of our time.

Social victories are hollow if what you win is the ability to be equally impoverished, equally spurned, equally treated as untouchables.

You want to help minorities? Help them gain economic victories that allow them to make their lives better and empower them politically. Let them own homes, gain educations, build intergenerational wealth, have careers.

Let them DEMAND the social justice from ALL politicians, from a point of economic strength, rather than just hope they can get it if they 'vote for the right guy'.

[ColesCountyDem]

123. Democrats do not march in lockstep with Republicans on financial issues, either.

They overlap on SOME votes, but they are not the same-- not even close, overall. If you want to see pure, unadulterated, economic serfdom, let the GOP control Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court. That'll show those less-than-pure Democrats, huh?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

129. I won't roll my eyes at you.

But I'll point out that far too many Dems do indeed vote to move us towards economic serfdom far too frequently already. I don't think it matters if we go there quickly or a bit more slowly - we're still heading there. We have to not just get there more slowly, we need to not go there at all.

[ColesCountyDem]

132. So, if the boat is taking on water, we should bail with an axe?

That seems to be your solution, since you imply that you don't support less-than-perfect Democrats, or am I wrong? Make no mistake, the GOP will bail the economic boat with an axe.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

136. When they vote with the Repubs on economic issues, those Dems

ARE 'bailing with an axe'.

My idea is NOT to join Repubs in using the axe on the boat at all. Not just to take the axe from them when they get tired and swing it more halfheartedly at the side of the boat than they do, as you seem fine with.

[ColesCountyDem]

140. I'll leave you to your purity, then.

I'll be working to prevent unmitigated disaster in 2016.

Have a nice night.

[pkdu]

187. I couldn't agree more...the " I want Warrens babies brigade" would rather see the Supreme

Court loaded with 2-3 more old white Catholic RW males than see Hillary elected Prez.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

227. Can't believe someone alerted on this...

On Sun Dec 14, 2014, 09:05 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I couldn't agree more...the " I want Warrens babies brigade" would rather see the Supreme
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5957750

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

" I want Warrens babies brigade" This is a deliberately offensive personal insult directed at a very significant portion of the DU community.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Dec 14, 2014, 09:12 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: For a online discussion board, this is pretty tame.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To the alerter: GROW SOME SKIN!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not a personal insult as no specific DUer was called out. An opinion was stated with drama, but not directed at an individual.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[pkdu]

270. Amazing isn't it....I had another equally innocuous one hidden 4-3. I should be able to reply

To the four with Internet Butthurt form

[L0oniX]

284. Disruptive posts are subjective. People are alerting just because they don't like what is said...

not because what they said is really disruptive. Then the jury gets skewd by others who will vote to hide just because they don't like what was said. Disruptive = I don't like what you said ...here on DU. The OP worries about DU blowing up? That's a real laugh. Think the admins are worried about that too? If they were, they'd stop the frivolous alert crap by returning to the mod system or monitoring alerts 1 on 1 and kicking frivolous alerters out of the jury pool.

[L0oniX]

98. I like rocket science.

[randome]

152. No, you don't.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[bahrbearian]

144. Vote for Lieberman!

[ColesCountyDem]

228. He's not a Democrat. n/t

[bahrbearian]

234. He was the Democratic VP canidate, tells you something about Democratic party.

Even the worst Democrat is better then the Worst Repub, really!

[ColesCountyDem]

253. Can you name a Republican who has a 100% rating from NARAL?

I won't hold my breath waiting, because blue really isn't my color.

[bahrbearian]

260. Deflection

[ColesCountyDem]

266. Not at all.

It's a challenge, and one you obviously can't do. Reproductive freedom is most definitely a progressive issue.

[bahrbearian]

274. Yes it is , you can't stay on subject so you deflect.

[ColesCountyDem]

278. No, it isn't.

I am on the subject, which is progressive values. I just demonstrated that, as bad as he is, Joe Lieberman has more progressive values than any Republican you can name. It is YOU who are deflecting (and evading).

[ColesCountyDem]

229. I love how you engage in substabtive debate.

I'm always impressed by new posters who don't engage in personal attacks.

[ColesCountyDem]

269. Why do/did you think I disagree with that?

I'm still puzzled where the whole attack came from, frankly.

[ColesCountyDem]

319. Mea culpa. I had a 'senior moment'.

I was going back and forth between two threads, and momentarily lost track to what and whom I was replying. Oh, the joy of getting older!

[MisterP]

87. if we do not do anything about *child rape* the *country* will fly apart

more blind loyalty will just turn us into Latin America

[L0oniX]

106. ...and damn those ninja squirrels too!

[randome]

151. .

[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[McCamy Taylor]

90. Let's talk real Democratic strategy here. Dems do well when Dems are mad.

Dems lose when they are complacent, because they do not vote. Republicans always vote, because they are always afraid of the great unwashed masses, i.e. Dems. Dems mostly like and trust other people so they do not vote out of fear. Dems have lots of thing to do, like take care of their kids and go to work, so they can only be bothered to get out to vote when they are really and truly pissed about something--like the Great Depression or the JFK Assassination or Katrina. Or when they are really enthusiastic about something, e.g African-American voters at finally having a major party candidate on the ballot.

Dems get mad when they argue. They get mad during their own primary when they argue with each other. They get mad when they see Republicans fuck up. The get enthusiastic over candidates who get mad for them, who prove that they are willing to fight. So, the key to Democratic victory in 2016 is NOT for us to all play nice. That is boring and will encourage Democrats to stay home.

The GOP's winning strategies are 1) Number one, "Divide and conquer." If you hear someone who seems to be more interested in making two demographic groups hate each other than in pointing out problems and solutions, that is probably a GOP mole. For instance they use white against Black and Latino racism to keep folks from joining unions, which are among the most powerful Democratic groups. 2) "They all do it" as in "Bush is the same as Gore" a strategy dreamed up by Grover Norquist and peddled by Nader and his minions like Michael Moore. "They all do it" spends a lot of time telling Democrats that all elected officials are equally corrupt and nothing they can do will change it so stay home as a protest vote blah blah blah.

If you read anything at DU that seems to be saying "Blanks really should not be under the same umbrella as Other-Blanks" that is GOP propaganda. If you read anything at DU that seems to be saying "Dems are just as bad as Republicans" that is GOP propaganda. On the other hand, saying that a particular Democrat did one thing in particular which is not in keeping with Democratic principles is not propaganda. It is political discourse---the kind that keeps Dems interested and mad and more likely to vote once we finally settle on a slate of candidates.

Regarding enthusiasm, a ticket with a woman and a ticket with a Latino will generate tremendous enthusiasm. The woman needs to be someone that GOP women will cross the line to vote for. The Latino needs to be someone with a real political future, not just a Latin sounding name, since those who vote for a Latino are not making a political statement with their vote---Hispanics are much too practical for that. They want results. That is why I have already settled upon Clinton/Castro and even have a Clinton/Castro 2016 bumper sticker on my car. There is no more winning combination for 2016. And I am not talking George Clinton and Fidel Castro---though that would be quite a line up.

[RiverLover]

196. I respectfully disagree with every thing you wrote, and it has NOTHING to do with RW media

It is what Clinton has actually done & said.

EW on the other hand, gets me riled up & motivated to fight what Hillary Clinton represents.

And again, that's based on what EW has said & done & has NOTHING to do with RW media.

(I also don't believe HRC has a chance of winning in the GE.)

[BootinUp]

199. You make some good points

I think in the last paragraph especially.

[Union Scribe]

91. Loooove, love will tear us apart...

[rhett o rick]

93. There are two wings to the DEmocratic Party. One is the Warren Wing that wants

to fight, no f'n compromise, on freedom and liberty. The other wing I call the Wall Street/Neocon Wing. They want to strenghten the MIC and support tax cuts for the wealthy. I think it's a little audacious to ask the two groups to "pull together".

Tell you what Mineral Man, I am going to fight Wall Street and the MIC domination tooth and nail. If you are with me, we can pull together. But I have a hunch you aren't going to fight the creep to fascism. You think if we compromise we can slow it down.

The country is on the verge of splitting apart. The 1% vs. the 99%. The Third Way Democrats are with the 1%.

[L0oniX]

153. ^^^THIS^^^TRUTH^^^

[corkhead]

214. we will become united when we purge the Wall Street/Neocon Wing and their apologists

from the Democratic party and give them back to the republicons where they belong

[randome]

231. That's idiocy.

We will become united by blindly eliminating those we don't agree with? We need strategy and allies, not more enemies. We need to convince the conservative wing of the party that they have something to gain by throwing in with us.

That they have more to lose by maintaining the status quo.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

238. The Conservative Wing of the Party works for Wall Street. They aren't about to throw

away their graft. Just how are we going to convince them to accept Democratic Principles?

[randome]

289. Elizabeth Warren is making them uncomfortable.

You'll notice she doesn't say "To hell with those who don't agree with me! We need to kick those turncoats out!"

She's trying to build a coalition. Allies. The heat is on and we need to remind the Conservative wing of that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

296. That sounds great but how is that different than what we've been doing for the last 30years??

The Oligarch leaders are not about to negotiate. There is an old saying that if you give up a small slice of your sausage every time you negotiate, you'll eventually end up with the string.

[randome]

298. I don't think the Conservative Dems are that wedded to the oligarchs.

I think it's more their fallback position since the advent of Reagan and his low-IQ cohorts. The country took a conservative detour 35 years ago and Democrats have had to cope with that for so long, some of the GOP has rubbed off on many of them.

Without numbers, we aren't going to change a thing, just bash our heads against the wall. We need allies. I don't have a bullet-proof method of increasing our numbers but Warren's impassioned speech is, I hope, the start of something.

It seems like common sense to me that we are likely to find those numbers within our own party because trying to 'turn' the GOP is like trying to convince a zombie to behave better.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

[L0oniX]

241. "those we don't agree with" Really? We should embrace the sources of campaign and influence money?

Wow ...and the other post was "That's idiocy." ???

[randome]

328. Who said anything about embracing those things?

Like it or not, we need numbers. Where will we get those numbers? Not from the GOP. Not from some third party that doesn't exist. There are only two sources: Independents and from within our own party.

We need to turn those Corporate Dems back to the 'correct' way of thinking. We can't do that by continually telling them to get lost. We do it by assuring them that they have more to gain than to lose.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

[JanMichael]

102. Bullshit. Same old crap I've heard here since 2001.

Sky falling - pompous - do as I say regardless of the past - horsecrap.

DU is still here after the 2002-06 war war war days; the 2004 horror show election; the 2006 oh noes war and mid terms; the 2007 housing and all around economic collapse; the huge 2008 nasty primary and false euphoria election; the 2012 vote same old shit or else elections; and now the 2014 sky is falling cholera.

I vote Democratic over and over and over and over yet I am a hard core capital "L" leftist. We do it because we have no choice and Americans are too wimpy to ever have our real revolution. So we vote and weep and do it again.

We will continue to wallow in an oligarchic playground of the rich while millions are crushed by poverty. That's a fact for us that we accept.

The big hippy dippy so called liberals, that DUers love, talk about the middle class ad nausea but not about labor or poverty or living wages or the social programs that keep people barely above 2nd world standards of living. Ok maybe Sanders but he is also something of a bourgeois leftist and doesn't want any substantive economic recharge of the left. I like him personally but come on it will not happen. The rest are preservers of the system period.

But back to the chicken little nonsense - I'm not buying that at all. DUers may have some very conflicting member ideas but we all know we (DUers) are as good as we are ever going to get online. The worst of us is better that 99% of the rest. At least on a personal level. Most of us simply want to be around similar pleasant and decent people who don't have major racist or sexist or nasty thoughts running off their keyboards.

This thread will not make a difference because the sky is not falling - nothing will "fly apart" - on DU. This is a made up fear.

[L0oniX]

105. Repuke tactic = "made up fear".

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

107. More excuses?

What is going to come out of this Congress is going to be as ugly as three piles of dog crap. Worse, President Obama will have to sign some of it just to keep the country running.

Last week, it was all 'Of course the President will just be vetoing whatever Republicans hand him' from the folks who always want to give out excuses for Dems behaving badly. So now we've already abandoned the notion that if Republicans hand him crap, he'll just veto it, and we're on to 'Well, of course he'll have to sign some of it'.

If 'we' want to win, it's time to stop making excuses, and time to start actually having principles and sticking to them. Not simply giving in to Republicans dismantling the New Deal and the country a piece at a time.

America did not 'fuck up' in 2014. Democrats running for office did. Until the Democratic Party can face up to the mistakes it makes, and quit blaming anyone and everyone else, things will stay 'fucked up'.

You want to win races? Run people who have the guts to win votes by standing up for the principles of the Party platform. Not by people whose idea of a campaign is to tell voters 'Hey, I like the same stupid things the Republican does, but I'm a Democrat!'

People who are unashamed to say 'I'm for labour, I'm against corporations running roughshod over their workers.'

People who are unashamed to say 'Every American deserves food and shelter, and ensuring that they get such should not be a matter of 'hoping for enough charity to cover it'.

People who are unashamed to say 'I believe every person deserves the right to marry the people they love, to adopt children, to not be fired from work or not hired in the first place because of the gender to whom they're attracted, or the gender they wish to be.'

People who are unashamed to say 'Minorities in this country are treated differently by police, by banks, by politicians, and they deserve and must get equal treatment. And law enforcement and officials who fail to so do need to be held accountable.'

People who are unashamed to say 'The level of violence perpetrated by people with guns in this country is unacceptable, and we must take measures to make sure that people who want to own guns are vetted and trained to make sure they can do so responsibly.'

People who are unashamed to say 'Every single human being deserves medical care as needed, not 'medical insurance'.'

People who are unashamed to say 'Military force is the absolute last resort in any sort of foreign crisis, and should be agreed upon by the nations of the world, not undertaken 'solo'.'

Do you want to win in 2016?

Then choose candidates who aren't ashamed to be Democrats, who can show the struggling people of this country that they give a damn, and won't simply step into office and forget about the rest of us, and make excuses for why they won't or can't fight for us.

[OilemFirchen]

322. A late contender for the Leonard Pinth-Garnell Award, Stream of Consciousness Sophomorics.

Lotsa competition this year, but it's got a bit of a shot.

Oh, and fuck Ron Paul.

[OilemFirchen]

327. I get it now.

Read it with my eyes closed and it made a fuck lot of sense.

Are these individuals "rugged"?

[pa28]

110. I think it's time for conflict in the party and I welcome it.

Argument and division will eventually result in new ideas and eventual regeneration. Yes, things in the short term might get worse but we've made our own willing mistake of political triangulation to win elections and the utility of that strategy has come to an end.

If we are willing to accept that and rebuild from the bottom up things will eventually get better.

[TransitJohn]

114. Hahahaha

Good luck with that.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

120. This looks like word salad with spam. nt

[MineralMan]

119. Well, that went well...

Uff da!

Thanks to those who got what I was saying and to those who recced.

[SixString]

122. Have another G and T.

It'll be all right.

[MineralMan]

125. One is my limit.

Thanks for your concern, though.

[SixString]

128. Well then,

pour me one and we'll call it even.

[Logical]

154. Trying to tell people how to think is never really a good post. nt

[Katashi_itto]

331. I ABSOLUTELY GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 3RD WAY FOREVER!

We have got to vote another Corporate Fascist in, and Lets all feel good about it too!

I think you got the essence of what being a 3rd Wayer is down to a tee.

Democratic Infiltrators...I mean 3rd Way is the party of the future. After all, why be a Republican when you can be a 3rd Wayer?

Damn I feel good about Hillary Clinton now. It all makes sense since you explained it.

Thanks!

[Neon Gods]

142. Dems are always flying apart

That's because we're individuals, not robots. On election day almost all of us hold our nose and vote...against the Republicans if nothing else.

Yes, I'm disappointed with Obama, but I know I would be disappointed with my perfect candidate. Compromise is essential to politics and we always focus on what we gave up rather than what we got in return.

But that said, since at least 2000 the Democratic Party has lost it's way and I'm going to scream my head off until we finally tell people that government is NOT the problem, that capitalism only works with a robust government to regulate it and level the playing field. But most of all we MUST get money out of politics, and the Democrats are the only party that can do it. I just don't see much enthusiasm from the party leadership for that.

Hope the Gin and Tonic has kicked in by now.

[randome]

150. Some of you need to mellow out.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

158. It's time for a revolution and you want us to mellow out and accept the status quo.

I can see the Torys telling our founders to mellow out. The Declaration of Independence tells us that we have the right to change out our government when they stop representing us.

There are two sides in this class war and the Conservative Democrats side with the 1%.

[randome]

161. Our founders were slave traders. You would have excoriated them the same as you do Democrats today.

The Declaration of Independence was written by slave traders. Yes, we need something like a revolution but it must be fought with ideas and organization, not amorphous ideals and unpragmatic, reflexive denial.

Or:

If you would not have excoriated our slave-trading founders because, well, anyone's entitled to mistakes or whatever, why do you hold such an inflexible opinion of today's Democrats?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

163. Oh please. You have to be able to do better than that.

I want freedom and liberty and you want the status quo.

[randome]

165. Would you have said the same in 1776?

"Freedom and liberty" mean different things to different people. That phrase is sort of like calling someone out for not being a 'patriot', which also means different things to different people.

Both are glib utterances without definition.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

168. I want a representative government free of corporate control. Can you understand that?

The Conservative DEmocrats including Obama and Clintons are on the wrong side of this class war. They belong to and represent the 1%.

[randome]

175. I want the same thing.

I have 2 daughters that I want to have a better, more functional government than what we have now. And I've said many times that I don't like Clinton. I don't want her as President. I will, however, always support the Democratic nominee because the alternative is disaster.

The conservative wing of the Democratic party needs to feel they have other options rather than losing elections because that's what they're afraid of. They need more than blind anger, no matter how righteous it sometimes feels.

We need to be more nuanced than that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[delrem]

162. Oh c'mon rhett or rick, you just don't understand the 3rd way.

Extreme right wing economics is just a *little* thing and the status quo is cool.
Please, don't upset the apple cart!

[rhett o rick]

164. I guess they (The Third Way) just want us to sit down and shut up. They really don't

know us do they?

[delrem]

167. They think we can be bought, too.

[randome]

169. You're funny.

You take a suggestion to mellow out and construct from that the idea that I like the status quo and that I'm 'obviously' a third-wayer.

Funny.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[delrem]

172. Oh come on, randome. You're a frequent poster.

You don't really think that each of your posts is taken as unique and unconnected to what you post elsewhere?
Do you?

Besides, I was responding to rhett o rick (which I spelled wrong!! now *that's* an offense!), not you, and explaining all about Donovan and mellowness. Don't you like to be mellow?

[randome]

178. I'm flattered that you noticed me in such detail.

So you must know by my previous postings that I don't like Clinton and I don't want her as President. Doesn't that get me in the club???
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[delrem]

180. I don't know a damn thing about you "in detail", randome.

Mellow out, randome. There is no "club".

[woo me with science]

271. +1 Third Way blase....

Don't get all "hair on fire" over your looted cities, homeless kids, hungry seniors, spying NSA, murdering police, and torturing government.


It's all fine. More voting for our corporate candidates is all you need to do, we promise...

[Hekate]

173. ....and Kick

[bigwillq]

179. You are taking a message board way too seriously (nt)

[840high]

189. DU is barely a ripple in

the big pond.

[L0oniX]

181. Is this what is called a "concern" op?

[Bonobo]

182. An exceedingly simple question for you:

If a politician with exactly the same political positions as George Bush declared himself a Democrat, let's call him Borge Jush, would you support him in a general election against a Republican?

[nomorenomore08]

186. If the other guy's positions were even worse, then I might have to.

But I'd be gagging all the way.

[Hekate]

183. MinMan, you are one of the few reasons I am still here. Your experiences have made you wise...

...and you persistently try to share with others. I for one am grateful, and I hope some here will follow in your footsteps in local politics. "All politics is local" -- did people think that was just a quick witticism? It's the bedrock truth, and you live it.

If you ever find yourself driving down 101 through Santa Barbara, PM me and I'd be very glad to meet you for coffee.

During the BushCheney years I used to sign off, We shall live to see better days. I guess it's time for me to dust off that hopeful and enduring line.

In the dark before the Solstice, remember this: We shall live to see better days.

Hekate

[davidpdx]

191. As much as I wish it would happen, it won't

The next two years are going to be about shoving Hilary Clinton down our throats 24/7/365. I wasn't very active prior to the primaries in 2008, but I was a lurker. I read a lot of posts by long time DUers. My guess is it will be as bad as it was then.

In short, I refuse to assimilate, capitulate, and be treated like shit to try to force me vote for a candidate that is a morally corrupt human being.

On everything else I am willing to work with people. I go out of my way to follow and support candidates in other states and donate to their campaigns because most of the races in my state are pretty safe. I applaud anyone who wants to let me know who the great progressive candidates are out there who I can support.

[Autumn]

256. No one can force you to vote for her. You control your actions when you vote

and there comes a time when you have to vote your conscience. It's really quite simple. If you don't want to vote for a candidate, don't.

[nomorenomore08]

192. K&R because I don't know what else to do.

As I've said, I'm a pessimist by nature, so voting for the "lesser evil" feels natural to me, even if I don't like it.

And yes, I realize we're probably screwed in the long run either way, but given my choice of dystopias I'll take 'Brave New World' over 'The Handmaid's Tale.'

For 2016, I would love Warren or Sanders to run, and have a realistic chance, but I'll vote Clinton if that's the only halfway sane option. The difference is, corporate Dems piss me off, but the Republicans in their current form terrify me. Like, to the point that they make me feel like abandoning my generally peace-loving ways and stockpiling weapons/ammo.

[Lifelong Protester]

195. Can you get them to quit

calling me for money at least??

[merrily]

215. Have you asked them to stop calling?

Worked for me. Also unsubscribed from all those panicky sounding emails asking me to donate fast.

[Lifelong Protester]

273. Good point. I usually tell them

"s/he's not here" and then hang up. I should stay on long enough to ask them to quit calling me. Fat lot of good my piddly donations have done in the past. I ain't no "Wall-streeter".

[merrily]

201. "Work together" on this board seems to go only one way.

Traditional Democrats and liberal Democrats should sit down and shut up and go along with whatever the PTB Third Wayers say/do/want.

[polichick]

204. So true.

[L0oniX]

242. F*** that.

go along with whatever the PTB Third Wayers say/do/want

[still_one]

205. As frustrating as this sounds DU is just a forum. It is not necessarily representative of how the

majority of Democrats will vote, and definitely not representative how the independents will vote

The only thing DU represents is a specific poster's opinion.

[corkhead]

210. DU was born out of Republicon dominance of all branches of government. Maybe we need that again to

bring DU back together, if in fact that is important.

If supporting the Cromnibus is your idea of working together as Democrats, then I am not sure that I am one anymore. Jamie Dimon can have my spot.

[KG]

211. the daily dose of 'look at me' condescension.

where would we be without it?

[randome]

212. We need allies. YOU need allies.

If all you have to offer is bitter disdain, you will not succeed. We need more people on our side, not to simply throw out anyone we disagree with.

I think that's the point of the OP.

Strategy and allies are the key to change.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[merrily]

245. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Autumn]

285. Allies are people that make an association for mutual benefit

or to achieve some common purpose. When we are told don't criticize the democratic party or Obama if you do and we fail it's all your fault then we can not be allies. There is no benefit in a mutual association for those of us who need and want change in our Party with allies who want the status quo and fight against a necessary change.

[randome]

286. No one told you that.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Autumn]

287. Did you read the OP and what you posted?

I see what the tactic of the day is.

[randome]

290. Criticism versus attack. They're not the same thing.

Temperaments should always be measured else it's a quick descent into red-faced hatred and then it will be easier to dismiss.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[L0oniX]

239. +1

[Autumn]

279. 3rd way MineralManny only objects when the Real Manny dares to

post an OP in GD. Then the offense is so strong by a few posters I often want to start an OP to buy a fainting couch with just a touch of MineralMan has no objection to MineralMans look at meeee Ops.

note to any one offended 3rd way MineralManny is what MineralMan calls himself in some of MannyGoldsteins OPs

[SixString]

283. Not very original, is he?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5615965

"Inevitability-Way MineralManny"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4758189

"GOTV-Way MineralManny"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025044035

"Contrary-Way MineralManny"

[SMC22307]

324. Must've been too challenging to come up with a good torture story...

unlike the one of the white Minnesotan grocery shoppers who (allegedly) avoided the black check-out girl. Perhaps there was a recent tale of boom and bust and bailouts related at the personal level, but I missed it.

Anxiously awaiting the next installment...

[Sunlei]

216. "United we stand, divided we fall"

Take a look at the services todays paid media provide for anyone who is willing to pay them. Services include posting on messageboards and any media comment sections.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

226. Free Republic holds no sway here.

I don't take instruction from someone who was a member of Free a Republic for seven years during the Bush Administration while we did everything we could to fight that bastard. I've seen what you posted there, and yes, I'm aware that you say you were just living a lie for those seven years and that you've always been a Democrat, but you'll forgive me if I don't rush to endorse your push for us to move to the right.

[MineralMan]

232. Your reply is completely irrelevant to what I wrote and

is little more than yet another personal attack. Congratulations!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

240. It most certainly is relevant, and it's not a personal attack.

Are you now claiming not to have been a member of FR for 7 years?

[merrily]

250. No, your posting seven years on FREEP is very relevant to your OP.

[L0oniX]

308. ^^^THIS^^^

[Bluenorthwest]

334. It's super relevant, and at the time of your 'confession' this was what some of us told you we did

not think you you should do any longer- some put on your preacher cap. Yet here you are. I am about to quote an excerpt from your 'abject apology' for things you say you were sorry for but which here, today, you are saying are not relevant. You wrote hateful things about LGBT people and about African American people. The gay stuff about no allowing us near children was terrible beyond compare.
By claiming that citing your confessed truth is a 'personal attack' you have voided your apology. Being sorry for such a wrong does not stop. If you refuse to integrate it into our exchanges with you, then you are not sorry, you are just sorry you got caught.
Your own words at age 60+:
"I apologize abjectly.
I did write that, although not in those exact words. I was very wrong to do so, and it is not true. What I wrote was based on incorrect information. I no longer believe that in any way. After writing that, a number of years ago, I learned the actual facts of the matter. I learned that there is no connection between orientation and the likelihood that someone is likely to desire sex with underaged people."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/~MineralMan

[SixString]

343. Took him 60 years to figure it out.

If you can believe that.

I don't

[SixString]

280. Nailed it.

[L0oniX]

309. Slam dunk nailed it thread win ...truth!

[leeroysphitz]

230. Too late. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

252. My ignore list

just grew by leaps and bounds because of this thread.

It's abundantly clear that there are those whose sole purpose is to snipe and snark their way into each and every discussion on this board. So....have at it, you deserve each other.

I've never used ignore before, but it's either that or walk away entirely at this point.

Screw it. You win!

[99Forever]

254. Please make damn sure I'm on it.

Because I'll be damned if I'll be told not to honestly share my opinions and concerns because they might raffle the feathers of the people taking the party I've been a member of for close to half a century, down the road to Hell.

[Bobbie Jo]

330. And that had fuck all

to do with what I wrote.

Yeah you're making the cut; not for your opinion, but for that enormous chip on your shoulder.

Take your damn hostility elsewhere, I haven't "told" you to do shit.

[99Forever]

332. Same to ya.

Bu bye.

[L0oniX]

257. They are laughing at you over on DI.

http://www.discussionist.com/1015303423

[Blue_Adept]

264. Jury Results

On Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

They are laughing at you over on DI.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5959365

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This kind of rude taunting is ridiculous. Talk about making DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:43 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alerter- it is rude and it is taunting= trolling.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This basically reads as an alert on DI rather than something here.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The problem I have with the post is that it is not accurate. There is no laughing a repost of the link
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[L0oniX]

276. Missed me again ...and I know who alerted.

[MineralMan]

313. Wasn't me, and I would have voted to leave it.

Nothing wrong with linking to DI.

[MineralMan]

300. Yeah, OK.

Thanks for letting me know. I don't go there, frankly.

[L0oniX]

302. You wouldn't last long there anyway.

[MineralMan]

305. Again, OK. Why would I care?

Why would you care?

[L0oniX]

307. Message Hidden by Jury Decision ...see post #226

See post #226

[MineralMan]

310. I don't see any hidden messages there.

Truly, I'm confused now.

[L0oniX]

311. LMFAO

[LWolf]

259. Are you talking about elections or issues? nt

[Zorra]

263. I'm a flat out gone beyond left liberal populist New Deal Real Deal Democrat.

I have a bleeding heart hippie girl liberal code of ethics, and am not, and never have been, and never will be, compromised by any wealthy private interest.

I recognize the many posters here who share my ethical beliefs to a very great degree, and I trust them, because they are clearly not motivated by anything but a sincere and healthy desire to improve conditions, in every way possible, for the majority of people on the planet, and to protect our mother earth to the greatest degree possible. Basically, we are of one heart and mind in our intents and purposes

If someone, or some group, behaves in a manner that makes me suspect that they have been compromised by some type of wealthy private interest with odious, duplicitous intentions, I'm simply not going to buy into their game. I'm not going to agree with what I know to be wrong.

If a poster's political beliefs and opinions coincide with the duplicitous propaganda, desires, and actions of organizations whose proven primary motivation is clearly to exploit people and the earth for profit, who have supported totally unjustifiable war(s) in the name of conquest and profit, and who will deliberately deceive others for the purpose of gaining profit, I simply cannot accept (outside of genuine ignorance), that their intentions are sincere and genuine.



“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.” ~ FDR

[RiverLover]

265. GO Zorra!! The GOOD fight! nt

[L0oniX]

282. Hippie at heart here too.

[undeterred]

268. Thank you.

[whereisjustice]

275. If Democrats don't want to lose, they need to start fighting for the people who vote for them...

it is that simple. Until then, fuck the "you are with us or against us" pronouncements from Dem Party leadership, they are steering straight into an iceberg. We need to clean house of pandering conservative carpet baggers seeking refuge in an unprincipled leadership organization.

[L0oniX]

281. ...and they need to be worth voting for.

[Maedhros]

356. No, no, no, no. You've got it all wrong.

We left-leaning voters exist solely to vote for the candidates we're told to vote for by the Party. The Party tells us what they want, and it is our job to go make it happen. It's certainly NOT the other way around.

[whereisjustice]

357. lol - it's the 3rd way's STFU strategy to win hearts and minds...

[Maedhros]

358. The notion that our votes must be EARNED, by QUALITY CANDIDATES with GOOD IDEAS,

is simply high-minded nonsense to some.

[SidDithers]

288. DU rec for pissing off all the right people...nt

Sid

[joshcryer]

293. Certainly represents a good swath of shit stirrers.

Who would've thought a unity post could draw such ire?

[Hekate]

347. This is the sickest collection of posts I've ever seen on DU. Who the eff are these people?

MinMan comes in peace -- always. And this is the overwhelming response to his OP? This is what DU has devolved into?

I give up. This shit is no longer worth it. There is not one conversation in this very lengthy thread -- just trollery and assholery.

[SixString]

344. The one trick pony rides again.

[JanMichael]

301. Yet, you are one of the most

divisive members I have ever seen on DU. I think we have been here about the same amount of time.

[L0oniX]

312. ***

see post #226 for reasons

[JanMichael]

315. The three of us

have been here for years. I recognize you also. MineralMan is incredibly divisive- I am not sure after a decade that I care about the "reasons" but I will read the post.

[catbyte]

318. I am too tired & demoralized to even think about fighting. I need to heal. I have never been this

discouraged. My only thoughts now are "Thank God I never had kids" & that I am old enough to be gone when the shit really hits the fan, and that's a hell of a way to feel. I hope I recover my spirit soon.

[ozone_man]

326. I think you don't understand Democrats.

They are a big noisy party, that's what makes them thrive. Conformity is the thing that will kill the party and it is killing it/ It will not kill DU, but heated discussion, not conformity, makes it thrive. I see you as a conformist, but that is not what change is about. Obama stood for not change. FDR stood for change. Note the difference in presidents. Hillary Clinton stands for not change, the kind of Democrat that makes one wonder whether there is any difference between the Democrats and Republicans. Winning while sacrificing real democratic values is not winning.

[nolabels]

338. I kind of hope it happens sooner than later

Being patient is a virtue but often one finds that being noisy often doesn't mix much which such.

The art of Shiva is that destruction (of some type) must occur before a new beginning. It only makes sense in that need of getting rid of some of the old ideas before a few new ideas can take root.

New leadership, new ideas or both, who knows how it happens

[ozone_man]

361. I would tend to agree, that before a new beginning,

destruction will be most likely be necessary. That could mean a depression like event, larger than what we had in 2008/2009, more like 1929, and the depression that followed. That allowed FDR to implement all the social programs that he did. I don't like to think that it has to get worse, before it gets better, but that is likely the case. It seems that ancient wisdom (the art of Shiva) is completely relevant to the modern day.

[seveneyes]

335. Orbital velocity will remain relative to its central mass

Otherwise, it will drift to the next balanced mass it encounters.

There is nothing that we need
In a world of persecution
That is burning in its greed

[Major Hogwash]

348. Kramer: We're flying apart, Jerry . . . oh, yeah, baby, we are . . . like a flock of seagulls . . .

. . . at Fire Island!!

[Agnosticsherbet]

351. I think "ugly as three miles of dog crap" would be a better description.

I agree with everything else.

[MineralMan]

352. LOL! I try not to engage in too much hyperbole.

Thanks!

[Odin2005]

354. Let it fly apart.

The corporate tools can have their message board and we progressives can have ours.

[Rex]

359. You forgot the 'then'.

'If, then' statements can make such turmoil at times. Other times they go completely unnoticed. Looks like the DU is going to be a feeding frenzy all the way up to 2016. Just no getting around it.

Calling for peace on a political discussion board!?

Have you lost your mind!?


Just for that a republican is probably going to win in 2016!

Probably Ted Cruz...I hope you're happy now!

[BB_Smoke]

362. DU has been around for almost 14 years

It has survived all kinds of drama and angst. It unifies around easy things like opposing Bush and Cheney (the impetus behind its initial creation) and divides over all the messy intraparty/intraideological details.

It is just a website, after all. What happens on here doesn't have any noticeable effect on the state of the party, the elections, the Left, or the price of tea in Shanghai.

Nice echo of Dr. Franklin, by the way, but the quality of discourse on a political website hardly posits a threat to the state of affairs.