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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou people are overreacting re: Torture/Patriots
There's a full paragraph between the mention of torturing some folks and the mention of the national security team and law enforcement doing horrific things out of fear being patriots.
So stop taking it out of context.
I understand why it happened. I I think it its important when we look back to recall how afraid people were after the twins towers fell and the Pentagon had been hit and the plane in Pennsylvania had fallen and people did not know whether more attacks were imminent, and there was enormous pressure on our law enforcement and our national security teams to try to deal with this. And, you know, it it it it is important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect about the tough job that those folks had. And a lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots.
But having said all that, we did some things that were wrong. And thats what that report reflects. And thats the reason why after I took office, one of the first things I did was to ban some of the extraordinary interrogation techniques that are the subject of that report. And my hope is, is that this report reminds us once again that, you know, the character of our country has to be measured in part not by what we do when things are easy but what we do when things are hard. And and and when we engaged in some of these enhanced interrogation techniques, techniques that I believe and any fair-minded person would believe were torture, we crossed a line. And and that needs to be that needs to be understood and accepted. And we have to as a country take responsibility for that so that hopefully we dont do it again in the future.
FSogol
(45,485 posts)Response to Capt. Obvious (Original post)
Cal Carpenter This message was self-deleted by its author.
wavesofeuphoria
(525 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)have done more to help the victims.
That keeps me from being sanctimonious.
I bet some Germans asked themselves after WWII what they could have done, too.
Demit
(11,238 posts)that the unbolded sentences were a list of ways to understand the 'it', the torture, the 'things we did wrong'. He was listing reasons why the 'wrong' things were understandable, in his view ("I understand why it happened" .
He's cautioning us not to be sanctimonious. It wouldn't occur to anybody to be sanctimonious about what law enforcement and national security teams did RIGHT. That's not logical. He's cautioning us not to be sanctimonious about what those people did WRONG. Which was torture.
He has one more excuse for those 'folks'that they had a tough job. Well, there were people who had a tough job who DIDN'T torture. But he doesn't make any distinction there between them. He just says vaguely that 'a lot of them' were patriots.
He's weaseling through this little speech and I can forgive that it's probably because it's extemporaneous; I don't think he's as gifted in spontaneous speech as he is when he prepares his thoughts in advance. I don't even give a shit about the 'patriots' part. What I can't forgive is the accusation that I am sanctimonious in judging the people who carried out torture.
Nitram
(22,801 posts)...is to hold the nation together. If he moves to prosecute an ex-president and a vice-president without a great deal of support from the citizenry, the courts and Congress he risks tearing the nation apart. The report is out, and events may develop to the point where Obama can nudge the whole process towards prosecution. But let's not get too sanctimonious about Obama's reluctance to prosecute. Just sayin'.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)His refusal to initiate justice for the war criminals is making things worse, not better.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)who will never be united with a Black President.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)are now at least two systems of law in operation in this country, one for the poor and working class (see Ferguson, MO) and one for the pwoerful, well-to-do and connected.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)That's what a leader does...he failed.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)against the great hordes of common folk who don't understand civics. I have found that It helps to come to grips with the fact that he is now a member of the Bush family, just like the Clintons are. Then this and the ACA and TPP and arne Duncan all make perfect sense.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)would think that prosecuting the Bush administration would be good for our country.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Even without calling for prosection, he should have been bold, he should have been angry, he should have been a leader, no parsing or apologzing can cover up that he did none of this.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)about any high profile case where there could be fallout. No one should be above the law for any reason.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)That sort of tactic is so bullshit rich that you might as well just shout 'I have no actual response to that'.
QC
(26,371 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts). . . with his family held hostage in the WH by the CIA, the NSA, and the FBI holding pictures of him eating thanksgiving turkey only hours after the public pardoning.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)This man used to stand there and clearly and unambiguously explain that he opposed marriage equality because he's a Christian. He used strong and specific words which let us all know he did not see same sex couples as being equal, nor even approved of by his God who he claimed was oh so important to his every thought.
Ask him about torture, it's vague and debatable material, imprecise, lacking in any moral center. Not any mention of any sort about his formerly very important faith, absent it God in the mix and sanctity and his personal declarations of identity as a Christian, which he claimed gay people are not, without skipping a sanctimonious breath.
The contrast between his approach to the two things is stark and stomach turning.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)he sounded a little sanctimonious himself when he recently called out Roger Goodell and the NFL for not having a clear policy in place for dealing with DV.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Response to Capt. Obvious (Original post)
Vattel This message was self-deleted by its author.