General Discussion
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(2,758 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)mopinko
(70,118 posts)all ya gotta do is find the ones that aren't owned by clear channel.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Foxnews* would have that chart reversed, of course, to confuse their already brain dead cult following.
*not an actual news source.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Maybe Rachel or Cenk will show this. But yeah, don't rely on Fox News* or even Chicken Noodle News (CNN) covering this.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)I bet Ronnie & Shrub lead a lot of the presidential Loser Lists.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)Less that Poppy bush.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)as long as it is not theirs'
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)that way they can pay their big lending buddies all that interest.
kentuck
(111,101 posts)That is a question that should be asked.
And they have admitted it more than once. Reagan thought that if we could spend a lot of money and create a lot of debt, it would prevent the Democrats from having the money to create more government programs. Debt creation was a Republican brain child.
Also, Clinton's numbers would have been at a negative percent if he had not inherited Bush and Reagan's deficits...
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Who profited the most from the interest payback?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)kentuck
(111,101 posts)They succeeded beyond their wildest imagination.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I think we can all agree that the President does not control spending. Congress does. The question is...who was in control of the House during these years? I say this because, in the past, I have proudly displayed this sort of chart while debating Republican friends and family, only to come out looking like a fool. So, a chart like this needs to be made showing who had control of the House. I hate to say it, but I bet that will be a mixed bag.
Flame away.
(Please educate me with kindness if I am wrong. I really am a loyal DU'er.)
kentuck
(111,101 posts)for many years, Congress demurred to the agenda of the new President. If he wanted more for defense spending or whatever, he would usually get it. With Reagan, I think the Democrats gave him what he wanted because they thought the voters would throw him out for his huge deficits. They didn't. They re-elected him. Clinton was able to get us out of that mess. (Repubs argue they deserve some credit also. However, they forgot how to do it once Bush was elected)
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Fixed it for you.
kentuck
(111,101 posts)for the correction.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)kentuck
(111,101 posts)I hope DU doesn't decide to delete everything...
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And I was going to say 'great stuff,' but didn't want you to think I was 'sucking up to ya.'
Have a good weekend, what's left of it.
kentuck
(111,101 posts)Have a good weekend.
underpants
(182,826 posts)2001-2003 was 50/50 in the Senate but as we know the Dems went along with pretty much everything that the Repubs (Cheney) wanted
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html
Alexander
(15,318 posts)The Republicans only had the House for 3 months at that point. Before that, both House and Senate were solidly Democratic.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Presidents can dictate spending, though. Reagan consistently backed and supported increased military spending that led to the large increase in spending you see during his presidency. Likewise, with Pres. Bush, the increase costs of the Iraq War, his tax cuts, Afghanistan and Medicare Part D ballooned our spending. All those spending increases were pushed by Bush.
So, while Congress controls spending, it's foolish to say the President and his policies have no impact. As we saw with Reagan and then with Bush from 2001-2008, they have a great deal of control with what's spent, how much is spent and where it's spent.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)BootinUp
(47,161 posts)lumberingbear
(1,627 posts)dems_rightnow
(1,956 posts)progressoid
(49,991 posts)SunSeeker
(51,567 posts)Per Politifact:
"So we can dispense with Clinton -- in the chart, his figure is correct. But the chart is significantly off for both Bush and Obama. We found Bush to have an 86 percent increase, not 115 percent as the chart said. And we found the debt under Obama to be up by 34 percent, more than double the 16 percent cited in the chart.
We quickly discovered the source of the discrepancy: Whoever put the chart together used the date for Jan. 20, 2010 -- which is exactly one year to the day after Obama was sworn in -- rather than his actual inauguration date. We know this because Treasury says the debt for Jan. 20, 2010, was $12.327 trillion, which is the exact number cited on the supporting document that Pelosis office gave us.
However this error happened, it effectively took one year of rapidly escalating debt out of Obamas column and put it into Bushs, significantly skewing the numbers.
Using the corrected figures does mean that, superficially at least, Democrats have a point. The debt did still increase more, on a percentage basis, under Bush than it did under Obama. But other problems with the chart and its methodology undercut even this conclusion."
...
"After we presented our research to Pelosi's office, a spokesman acknowledged that the office had erred in assembling and posting the chart and that it was in the process of reposting it. The updated version which corrects the mathematical error but not what we consider to be the three additional design flaws can be found here http://www.flickr.com/photos/speakerpelosi/5684032538/in/photostream/
That's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't change our rating since it only occurred as a result of our fact-checking. We find so much wrong with this chart that we dont think it contains any significant approximation of the truth. It made a major calculation error that dramatically skewed the debt increase away from Obama and toward George W. Bush. It glossed over significant variations in time served in office. It cherry-picked the measurement that was favorable to its cause. And it is contradicted by statistics for GDP-adjusted debt, which show Obama to be the most, rather than the least, debt-creating president of the last five. None of this suggests that Obama cant turn things around as the economy improves (and Democrats can also take some solace in the fact that Bill Clinton did remarkably well in all of our measurements). But in communicating which administrations contributed the most to growth of the debt, this chart is a failure. We rate it Pants on Fire."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/19/nancy-pelosi/nancy-pelosi-posts-questionable-chart-debt-accumul/
Politifact as usually is a lot tougher on Dems than Repubs. But Speaker Pelosi did us not favors here. It is best to stick to the truth. And the truth is we are in this hole because of George W. Bush; none of those President on that chart had to deal with an economy that had gone off a cliff like Obama has, not to mention two major wars. And the reason our economy is not rebounding faster than it could (and hence the debt due to low revenue and high expenditures for unemployment, etc.) is because the Repubs blocked and continue to block the full stimulus all objective economists say we need. Right now, they won't even pass an infrastructure bill. If you want to see how devastating austerity measures can be in the middle of a recession, look at England right now.
marshall gaines
(347 posts)well, people with their head stuck in a gopher hole won't be able to deny this, but they'll spin it for the limbaugh clones out there
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)It still shows Reagan and Bush 2 to be assholes, accurately in any event.
spanone
(135,844 posts)penndragon69
(788 posts)There are too many BIG WORDS for their tiny, shriveled brains
to process.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)thanks for posting.
juajen
(8,515 posts)Faygo Kid
(21,478 posts)One of the 99
(2,280 posts)2001 - $5.871 trillion
2008 - $10.640 trillion
National Debt Increased 25% Under Obama:
Jan 31st 2009 = $10.569-tr-illion
Jan 31st 2011 = $14.131-tr-illion
But of the $3.56-trillion increase, 98% was carry over from Bush programs:
Bush: $910-billi-on = Interest on Debt 2009/2011
Bush: $360-billi-on = Iraq War Spending 2009/2011
Bush: $319-billi-on = TARP/Bailo-ut Balance from 2008 (as of May 2010)
Bush: $419-billi-on = Bush Recession Caused Drop in taxes
Bush: $190-billi-on = Bush Medicare Drug Program 2009/2011
Bush: $211-billi-on = Bush Meicare Part-D 2009/2011
Bush: $771-billi-on = Bush Tax Cuts 2009/2011
Bush's contribution:
2001 to 2008: $4.769-tri-llion
2009 to 2010: $3.181-tri-llion
Total: $7.950-trillion
Increase Since 2001 = $14.131 - $5.871 = $8.26-tril-lion
Bush's contributi-on: $7.950-tri-llion / $8.26-tril-lion = 96%
Increase caused By Bush's Programs: 96%
Increase caused by Obama's Programs: 4%
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/10/14/opinion/20081014_OPCHART.html/
kentuck
(111,101 posts)..was the last Bush budget, not the first Obama budget.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)and the military, is I think, the largest expense by far. So it looks like maybe it is `16% on top of Bush's?
Then again I'm talking about spending, which is not necessarily equal to debt.
Does anyone actually know the stats? they're presented here as a percentage in increase. but the scale has 0% on the bottom.
with 0 on the bottom, the chart should consist of amounts of debt , not percenatges.....
this is a tricky/sneaky way to describe the data imho.
midnight
(26,624 posts)just1voice
(1,362 posts)"According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion."
kentuck
(111,101 posts)When Jimmy Carter left office, the national debt was less than $1 trillion dollars. Most of this debt has been run up since 1980. Both sides have to admit that, no matter if they disagree with who caused the debt.
OnlinePoker
(5,721 posts)Obama is now at 47%, with the debt increasing from $10.627 Trillion to $15.616 Trillion since he's been in office. Had he had the balls to not renew the Bush tax cuts, things might look different now.
4dsc
(5,787 posts)You can blame both parties for being part of this debt raising experience but you have to remember one thing about how we got here in the first place.
And it was the republican party who took us away from the sound fiscal policy of "tax and spend" to one of BORROW AND SPEND" and that occurred during the Reagan era.
Simply put, Reaganomics fucked this country over and now we have this massive debt.
kentuck
(111,101 posts)It was not spent on new social programs. The debt was acquired elsewhere.
double deuce
(1 post)It's not accurate.....don't want to be like the ReThugs. Gotta stick to the facts when we are arguing with the right wingers. Plenty of accurate stuff to use.
siligut
(12,272 posts)And you will need to post links and resources to back it up.
mikekohr
(2,312 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)I was calling double deuce on a blanket statement with no evidence to back it up. Your blog is very informative and you answered with abundant evidence, good work. I really like the way you pointed out why Obama/Democrats had to spend.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)kentuck
(111,101 posts)That the national debt from George Washington thru Jimmy Carter was less than $1 trillion dollars? Do you know if that is true?
If so, that means we have spent almost $16 trillion dollars since Ronald Reagan took office in 1980. We have spent 16 times more than we spent from the Revolutionary War, thru the Civil War, thru the Great Depression, thru two World Wars, and thru the Great Society.
But isn't this OK because we are starving the beast? Didn't Ronald Reagan say that "government was not the solution, government is the problem" ? Doesn't that mean government is evil? Doesn't that mean that raising taxes is evil?
Which of these comments do you have a problem with??
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)thorolyfedup
(2 posts)While this chart is interesting, it does not tell the whole story. In this case, percentages don't give an accurate account without also considering actual dollar amounts. For instance, an increase of 115% of a billion means 2.15 billion. However, an increase of 16% of a trillion means 1.16 trillion. Which is really the larger increase?
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)tax cuts for the rich. Never mind that Rmoney is paying ~13% in taxes - look at HOW MUCH MONEY he is contributing!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Oh no, George W had repubs for 6 years, how did the repub Congress spend more. We have to find a way to rewrite history we can't have repubs spending. Hurry make them think anything like this.
kentuck
(111,101 posts)....that not one Republican voted for the Clinton tax increases and deficit reduction package. By the time Newt Gingrich and the Repubs took over Congress in January of 1995, Clinton and the Democrats had already cut the huge deficit by 40%!
TheFarseer
(9,323 posts)The debt was nearly nothing when Reagan took over so of course he raised it by a high percentage(not to say that he did a good job) We all know Bush was very bad for the national debt. There's not much else he could have done to screw up in that category. But saying that Obama is doing a good job keeping the debt under control because it's only increased 16% is horribly misleading. Fist of all, in this graph Obama has only been in office for 2 years compared with 8 for all the others(except Bush I). Second of all, Obama has raised the debt almost $5 trillion dollars, which can't be good no matter how you slice it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
Yes, Obama inherited a mess, but like so many other of the problems he inherited, he's done very little to clean it up. The only president that did anything positive for the debt in a very long time was Clinton. Sorry, I'm just tired of people making excuses for him.