OK..I'm pissed. Really pissed. If I hear one more person on this forum make this idiotic ,..

[BlueJazz]

... ridiculous, illogical statement, I'm going to do this:
1. Fly you down here to Nutland (Florida)
2. Tie you to a chair, plug your nose, put a straw in your mouth, seal it up, and watch while you realize that you can't get enough air to live for very long but are still able to make noises and sounds like "I can't breathe"

Maybe then YOU and the people who write in to the editorial sections of newspapers will understand that a person can talk with a very small amount of air but still die in a short time.... Geezzz.

(this post is just my "Fed up reading articles on the subject of not breathing/talking&quot

[JaneyVee]

1. I can say I can't breathe 11x without taking a breath in.

All in exhaled breaths. You are able to talk with the remaining air in the lungs.

[BlueJazz]

2. Exactly. I've read 3 articles this morning (web and newspaper) where people smugly say..

"How could he possibly talk when being choked?"

[GummyBearz]

3. Another thing people dont get

Is the choke hold isnt just about reducing oxygen intake. Its more about stopping blood flow to the brain and its return to the heart, which for an overweight person (or anyone with a heart problem) can easily induce cardiac arrest.

If you ever watch UFC (I have on occasion), the fighters start tapping out within about 20 seconds of getting in the choke hold. And its not because they can't hold their breath for 20 seconds. Its because the lack of blood circulation to their brain is already starting to make them feel extremely light-headed, their losing their vision, and starting to fully black out.

Imagine what that same choke hold would do to a very out of shape person...

[Doctor_J]

4. Where

are some on this forum?

[BlueJazz]

5. I don't want to embarrass people, just inform them.

[pnwmom]

6. As a person with asthma, I agree. And there is another possibility.

There is a condition in which the larynx spasms, also known as vocal cord mobility disorder. It can mimic asthma and/or co-exist with asthma, so it is often not diagnosed.

This condition is often caused by GERD -- which is very common in obese people -- as well as exposure to airborne contaminants, such as cigarette smoke; as well as by anxiety and panic. It causes the vocal cords to spasm, and then could cut off the oxygen completely.

Unlike asthma, it leads to the feeling of difficulty breathing air IN, as opposed to OUT.

And a person with these spasms could still strain to speak as he did ( as could a person who is feeling the beginnings of an asthma attack).

Ultimately, it doesn't matter which he had, but the police should treat EVERYONE as if the prone position is dangerous, since a susceptible person could appear perfectly healthy. However, an obese person is obviously at special risk.

[Rex]

7. Why do cops get to choke someone into unconsciousness? What laws gives them that right?

They can shoot us, taser us, mace us, beat the shit out of us with a nightstick or a iron folding rod, hose us down with fire hoses, rip our flesh with rubber bullets, almost kill us with bean bags fired from a shotgun, trip us, pin us, hold us down by the numbers...so do they REALLY need to be allowed to "choke us out"?

Why are cops so fucking violent toward non-violent offenders? Matter of fact, why are cops so fucking violent?

[Le Taz Hot]

8. As a lifelong asthma sufferer

yes you can talk during a severe attack. It's just that you may have to take 3 or 4 breaths in order to get out a full sentence. "I can't breath" is doable in one breath.

Stress can trigger an attack as can physical exertion. This young man obviously had both. It takes only a few seconds to go from breathing OK to a full-blown asthma attack and you feel like you're breathing through a pinhole. This man suffocated to death -- a terror that all severe asthma sufferers have to live with. It's literally our worst nightmare.

There are assholes all over the internet and they feel free to be assholes because they're anonymous. As one who has been around DU since 2001 I can't believe some of the shit I read here sometimes. Victim blaming, slut shaming, homophobia, misogyny, rape apologists -- those types of posts would have never been allowed to stand 10 years ago. I don't know why they are now but they are.

[rock]

9. Strongly agree

"I can't breathe" is used whenever a person has trouble breathing; it simple means "I can't breathe properly, and will probably die if not attended to right away." I don't appreciate anyone pretending that if you're talking, you're breathing.

[heaven05]

10. yeah+1000

they are quite ridiculous and are example of the unconcerned, in many areas, really.

[A Simple Game]

11. I haven't seen anyone on this forum make those claims, could you provide a link please?

If not then YOU should offer an apology to all of DU for your false accusation.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

19. Please DELETE! I don't want to lose you! nt

[NYC_SKP]

20. That was a chicken shit hide you got in the Nadin thread.

I wish I could undo it.

Crap.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

21. Yes it was. This place is sick beyond all help. People SUPPORT BULLIES here and I'M SICK OF IT! nt

[Alittleliberal]

26. Proudly voted not to hide

Assumed that it would easily be a 1-6 or 0-7 post. Lost a lot of faith in the jury system on that one.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. Agree with you.

[L0oniX]

15. -1

[jeff47]

17. Wow, you have time to read every single post on every forum on DU?

[A Simple Game]

23. No I don't have time to read every single post, thus the request for a link.

Could you provide one, or do you agree with just throwing out accusations?

[jeff47]

24. You're basing your statements on "what you have seen"

Implying that no one on DU has said something like that because you didn't see it.

or do you agree with just throwing out accusations?

You mean like demanding an apology because someone is a liar, based entirely on "what you have seen"?

Need a mirror, or can you find one yourself?

[A Simple Game]

29. I implied nothing, I stated that I hadn't seen anyone say what the accusations implied.

I merely asked for some evidence to substantiate what I thought were some severe accusations. I don't think accusing any DU members of making idiotic, ridiculous, and illogical statements should go unchallenged. Do you?

The "YOU" from the OP was an in your face accusation and an invitation to confrontation. I saw that "YOU" as a personal challenge to everyone on DU. The response showed the poster couldn't handle any "in your face" response.

Now, will you please provide a link to defend the OP?

[jeff47]

32. Apparently I need to go find a definition of "imply" for you.

Let's quote your entire first entry:

I haven't seen anyone on this forum make those claims, could you provide a link please?

If not then YOU should offer an apology to all of DU for your false accusation.

Did you actually say that no one on DU has ever said that? No. However, your demand for an apology prior to receiving any link means you were implying that no one on DU has ever said that.

Isn't digging into the basics of English grammar a fantastic way to spend an afternoon?!

I merely asked for some evidence to substantiate what I thought were some severe accusations.

Which would be true if we stop reading at the subject of your post. But your post has a body. Which means you did not merely ask for some evidence.

I don't think accusing any DU members of making idiotic, ridiculous, and illogical statements should go unchallenged. Do you?

DU membership does not have a "are you a decent human being" check. There are a massive quantity of idiotic, ridiculous, and illogical statements by enormous numbers of DU posters. Including long-term and/or well beloved DU members. Say, a lengthy curse-riddled post about "Obamacare" where Obama was specifically blamed for that poster's problem, when the problem 1)wasn't caused by Obama, and 2) "Obamacare" actually provided a solution.

The "YOU" from the OP was an in your face accusation and an invitation to confrontation. I saw that "YOU" as a personal challenge to everyone on DU.

Then I'd recommend actually reading the OP. The "you" referred to the next person who "on this forum make this idiotic, ridiculous, illogical statement" Everyone on DU is not making that statement, much less being the next one to do so.

In fact, the OP doesn't actually claim anyone on DU had already made that statement. Sure, it's implied by "next", but colloquially that is often used without a "first". Additionally, I'm reasonably confident that we've had at least one MIRT-ed out poster make that argument, since it's incredibly common elsewhere on the Internet.

Now, will you please provide a link to defend the OP?

Defend them from what? Are you going to "make this idiotic, ridiculous, illogical statement"?

Also, what's your excuse for calling the OP a liar before you had your link? In your mind, is it ok to attack individual DUers without evidence, but not the overall board?

[A Simple Game]

36. Wow, quite a post. Was the length to distract from the fact that

you couldn't find at least one incident where the OP would have been vindicated? Seems so, doesn't it.

I would ask for a link again but apparently there is none to be had. No matter, I won't be reading any more replies from you today.

[Roy Rolling]

12. for the record...

Of course it's an absurd argument. I think it is an amateur's take on the loose standard in EMS that if a person can talk, they can breathe. That is a reasonable quick assumption, but not definitive nor foolproof as any emergency medical person will know.

Only a fool would declare a person can breathe with six people leaning and choking them simply because they can utter a few words.

But, once again, a politician shoots his mouth off in language and vernacular of people who are knowledgeable, talking about something he has no clue about.

[Z_California]

13. Proof is in the pudding

I'm pretty sure the coroner agreed that he couldn't breathe so...

[staggerleem]

25. Well, the coroner DID rule Garner's death a Homicide.

Apparently, though, in the opinion of the "Grand" (has there EVER been a looser term??) Jury, that homicide was committed by someone other than the 6 police officers who had him pinned to the ground after he took that last breath.

I can only hope, now that the Staten Island DA has once again made New York City a "safe" place to be a cop (safe, at least, from prosecution for one's misdeeds) they they can find that invisible murderer REAL soon.

[Vattel]

16. You should be pissed. Rationalizing absurd levels of violence is absolutely fucked up.

He was not a violent offender. He was brutalized. It cost him his life. That would not have happened in the UK or any other Western European nation. Give me a break. We need to demand a change in police policies across the nation.

[BlueJazz]

18. You got it. That's what put me in such an argumentative mood. Not because of people here..

...(Well 3) but several people who have dismissed the actions of the cops by saying:
"He was faking it...He was just faking it....if he couldn't breathe there was NO WAY he could have spoken"

Just your typical dumb-fuck idiots.

[Vattel]

22. You are soooooooooooooo spot on!!

[Doctor_J]

37. But no one on this forum made such a claim, ever. So (s)he should NOT be pissed

vanity posts are really a detriment to the board.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. Often Asthma is about not being able to exhale properly....

this is disgusting....whoever is saying it should have to feel what it is like to have a lot of heavy weight put on your chest and try to breath...When you cannot exhale enough carbon dioxide....

Carbon dioxide is a physiologically important gas, produced by the body as a result of cellular metabolism. It is widely used in the food industry in the carbonation of beverages, in fire extinguishers as an 'inerting' agent and in the chemical industry. Its main mode of action is as an asphyxiant, although it also exerts toxic effects at cellular level. At low concentrations, gaseous carbon dioxide appears to have little toxicological effect. At higher concentrations it leads to an increased respiratory rate, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias and impaired consciousness. Concentrations >10% may cause convulsions, coma and death.

[ismnotwasm]

30. My husband has MS

With a slightly impaired swallow and laryningospasms.
Recently, but but before this story came out, he was choking on rice. He was repeating "I can't breath" over and over. I tried the heimlich and ending up calling 911. He says it felt like drowning. What eventually would have happened, is his airway would have swelled shut, then there would have been no more talking. He was dizzy and seeing black spots.

Needless to say, the story of Eric Garner resonates with him in the strongest possible way--your ability to breath slowly fading, and you know it-- you're aware every second-- but you're helpless to do anything about it.

[Lolita46]

31. This is true.

Good point.

[rbrnmw]

33. obviously he couldn't breathe he died

idiots saying he was faking it are either racist pro-cop types or the most ignorant bastards to walk in shoe leather. IMO

[hfojvt]

34. once upon a time

back in 1979 or so, I walked past this fight in high school. One guy had the other guy in a headlock and the other guy kept saying "I can't breathe" and the first guy kept asking "Do you give up?"

Maybe went through four iterations while I walked past.

I can't breathe.
Do you give up?
I can't breathe.
Do you give up?

I wanted to tell the guy "Dude, you need to stop saying 'I can't breathe' and start saying 'I give up'."

But I figured if I got involved they both might decide to start beating on me instead.

Thing is, I never heard about any death resulting from that altercation.

Usually people can hold their breath, or even pass out from lack of air, and just resume breathing and live happily ever after.

Dude was presumably getting oxygen in the ambulance. Why would he die?

[rbrnmw]

35. obviously the coroner knows more than you do

The man was murdered by the choke hold besides I think he was dead before they ever put him in the ambulance