Why Landrieu deserves the hate sent her way.

[DonCoquixote]

Now, I have heard a lot of the arguments to flagellate ourselves now that mary landrieu is gone. "She at least voted for gay rights" says one, "She at least voted for Abortion rights" says another. Now, we DO, repeat DO, Italicize, Captalize, underline and Boldface DO need Southern leaders who will be UNCOMPROMISING in ALL of those areas. Putting food on the table may require discussion, bit civil rights are ABSOLUTES, period.

So why am i not mourning Landrieu? Because she embodies a myth which has caused the Demcorats to be weak defenders of both Civil rights and Econimic rights, because she is one that will bow to big money, regardless of the harm done.

Remember when Obama was at least trying to act like he was going to talk tough against BP for Deepwater Horizon? Then this happened.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/11/18/131209/landrieu-omb/
http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/11/sen_mary_landrieu_demands_clea.html

Here was Louisisana, still bleeding after Katrina,a disaster which was made wrose by the Oilcompanies destorying the wetlans that normally would help asborb water surges, and here is their rep, mary, demanding that Obama stay out of the way of her beloved Oil companies. She sent a loud, clear signal that she would hamstring the left, holding up the budget diretcor that the left needed, in order so that the Oil companie get what they wanted, Nevermind that when Katrina hiot, Bush ignored her, and the Oil companies ignored her, and that many of those GOP made shamless attempts to profit off it.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/3990-obama-to-blame-for-hurricane-katrina-response-say-a-third-of-louisiana-republicans

Now, does nto negate the fact that she stood up for Civil rights, no. But it does show that if you help the very people that use money to strangle civil rights, you cannot be called their ally just because you wrote Yes on a piece of paper. It also means that if you want to bring people to the polls, you cannot attempt to cury favor with the good ol boys who have the advantage, thanks to bad schools and really bad churches where the GOP outright programs them like robots. You need to get people out to vote that KNOW what the stakes are, like the many Black people in Louisianan that have one of the hgihest cancer rates in the nation thanks to the fact Oil Refineries are convently placed in Black areas.

http://citation.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/5/0/9/9/6/p509969_index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/20/gulf-oil-spill-anniversary-children_n_1438959.html
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/2012/pollution-poverty-and-people-of-color-richmond-day-1


Now,not to take ONE THING away from the authentically need anger about Cop Shootings,but those cancer victims are every bit as dead as Michael Brown, and they died for the same reason, because to the powers that be, BlackLives do not matter,and when Mary even goes toe to toe with Obama to defend people that kill black people with every bit the arrogance as darren Wilson did, we have to really question whether or not this person is an asset. If a person dies because they live in Cancer Alley, they will not be in a good posotion to excercise any civil rights/ That is where bad cops and bad corps get together, they know Civil rights don't mean shit once people get killed.

[Cosmic Kitten]

1. Wellallrighty! ;~)

[Autumn]

2. You know who else was pro choice on the republican side? Collins and Snow

[AverageJoe90]

43. You mean Susan Collins, from ME?

She might just be one of the few remaining Republicans I can still respect.....

[stevenleser]

3. You expect her to be stupid or something? Opposing oil in an oil state or coal in a coal state is

a mind-numbingly stupid idea. We should hate her because she didn't do it?

If you need votes in the senate against those industries, get them someplace else. There are 100 senators from 50 different states.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Fat lotta good she did herself. nt

[stevenleser]

6. She won three times. It did her well for eighteen years. Can you think of another Democrat

from a state as red as that who has done so well?

[on point]

7. It is not stupid. It is needed to to tell the truth about the damage oil and coal cause.

Anything less is a cowardly sell out. Tell the truth, come out with policies and positions to support the state as it gets weaned off oil and gas as is needed to embrace the future (instead of head in sand grasping of past)

Do not sell out to the carbon warming and polluting interests. Don't participate in the repuke con. The repukes aren't going to vote for you anyway. Start making the case as to why supporting oil and coal is a bad idea.

[stevenleser]

9. It's not a sellout. It's called representing the people from YOUR state.

She is the Senator from Louisiana. That industry is vital to her state.

[on point]

12. Its called lack of leadership and is why dem ship is going down.

If you are more interested in your career than in actually helping the people in your state by leading them in a new direction you don't deserve election.

Leadership is not 'representing' bad ideas and positions that actually HURT the people of your state just so you can get elected.

[stevenleser]

13. Its perfect leadership to support the people in YOUR state. They are the folks who elected you.

If you don't get that, politics might not be the thing for you.

May I suggest bowling?

[Maven]

23. Well i suppose "the people" chose to be represented by a real republican

Why try to dissuade them from their ideas? they got the "perfect leadership" they wanted.

[Autumn]

34. Looks like the people of that state made it clear they prefer a real republican

over a democrat who plays at being one.

[Scuba]

35. That's lame. She didn't support the people of her state, she betrayed them.

There's more folk in Louisana who rely on fishing and tourism than rely on jobs in the oil biz.

Not surprised to see you defend her though.

[BrotherIvan]

73. ^^This!^^

If your livelihood is being decimated, why on earth would you support the woman working for them that did it? She was a turncoat when it came to the BP disaster and is not helping the people who are still hurting from it.

She chose her owners over the voters and she lost.

[on point]

41. It is NOT representing your state to sell out its citizens to the bad things

Again, leadership is leading people in new ideas. It is not just going along to get along. Leadership is not about a personal career win, it is about changing thinking and ideas and leading people into the future.

Perhaps you might want to think about that instead of saying that selling out is what politics is about.

Representing bad, destructive positions that hurt the citizens of your state is not representing them. It is selling out for personal career moves. it is NOT leadership and such pols do not deserve to be elected

[treestar]

63. Yet we hear talk of being authoritarian followers

No a Senator does not lead the people. They represent them.

Wouldn't we be authoritarian followers if we let people lead us into ideas we don't actually agree with or understand?

People will get elected whether some individual happens to think they deserve it or not!

[Major Hogwash]

79. Goddammit! Either march in lock step or get out of the parade!!

None of her critics, none in real life -- and more importantly, none here on DU -- have ever run for political office and won.

The very idea that a "cookie cutter" form exists to make Democratic Senators out of, is absurd on its very face!!
That theory doesn't hold water.

[Katashi_itto]

83. Cool, I will plan on Bowling next election day!

[Cosmic Kitten]

44. YES! Im IN

[treestar]

61. Really there are people who could lead the people of LA down the path of

giving up oil? As a US Senator? Well, I mean she couldn't get elected. Who is the person in LA willing to run for Senate there on a platform of how we should stop depending on oil? And their saying that is going to convince the people of LA to do the right thing by the rest of us and give up their jobs in the filthy oil industry?

[aspirant]

14. Are the coastal businesses

that were decimated by the filthy oil spill part of the people she represents?

[RufusTFirefly]

38. They would've been. But they can't write checks as big as those from Big Awl.

Heck, they don't even have enough money to pay for a decent sockpuppet.

Sad, but true.

[Odin2005]

72. That industry is fucking the planet.

[Major Hogwash]

80. They will never get it.

They will never understand.
You're wasting your time.

They are like lemmings, running around in circles, waiting for the first one to find the edge of the cliff!!!

[yeoman6987]

22. Enjoy the Tea Party

I just wish you didn't force the party on the rest of us real progressives.

[BrotherIvan]

74. thanks for the lolz

[pacalo]

8. Exactly, Steven!

Add to that Fixed News' social brainwashing of those who are too lazy to think for themselves & GOP gerrymandering.

[SidDithers]

11. The political naivete on display with regard to Landrieu is stupefying...

To think that any candidate from Louisiana would be an environmental greenie is a monumentally stupid position.

Sid

[stevenleser]

15. Some folks here really shouldn't be commenting on politics, they aren't close to getting it.

Whatever it is they are good at, they should stick to that because politics ain't it.

[Mojorabbit]

32. Gosh, we are so lucky to have "experts" to explain everything to us since we are so ignorant. nt

[RufusTFirefly]

66. Don't worry. You can trust them. They're certified tautologists. n/t

[JI7]

70. yeah, one thought andrew cuomo ran for congress

and won because of republicans voting for him.

[aspirant]

19. Let's stop funding

all that Army Corps of Engineers environmental levee design and reinforcement work because otherworldly intervention will save New Orleans the next time.

How about all those coastal businesses decimated by the environmentally defunct oil companies?

[jaysunb]

31. +1 n/t

[Odin2005]

71. The good of the planet and the survival of our species REQUIRES opposition to coal and oil.

[harun]

89. Good riddance to that fake Dem

[99Forever]

4. The Republicans are welcome to her.

She's one of them anyway.

[RufusTFirefly]

18. Perhaps she and this guy can develop a vaudeville act and take it on the road

Of course, he endorsed Michelle Nunn, which should've been a great big fat warning sign.

[Kalidurga]

10. Rec'd

for the tilting at windmills position. I agree on point and principal. But, at the end of the day one is almost beholden to be pragmatic. We are in a battle of life and death. I can't fault people for voting to stay alive another day. On the other hand I can't fault people for seeing the bigger picture either.

[liberal_at_heart]

37. living one more day is getting harder and harder to do whether the Republicans are in office

or the Democrats are in office. If we want to live another day we NEED to vote for progressives that will fight for living wages, unions, and education. Neither party is doing that currently.

[Kalidurga]

69. Well often times no progressives are running or they have a zero chance to win..

if they are running 3rd party. What we need to do is primary conservative Democrats when possible and promote progressive policies. Or we can take the whole arguement away from both parties and push progressive causes via ballot initiatives.

[butterfly77]

16. As far as I am concerned..

Ding dong the witch is dead the fake hypocritcal witch is dead. She was never any help at all everytime we desperately needed her to vote with Dems on issues she ran her ass over to the republiCONS along with Pryor.

Manchin may as well take his fake Democrat ass over with his real party the "republiCON party" and there are others who over the years have done nothing and then everyone shouts they need to do it because of the voters in their states.

They did everything they wanted and they still voted their asses out and I say Yay! Yay! Yay!

No sympathy here.

And another thing. Everytime,I hear the CONS say the President had a majority in both houses when he took office Landrieu and others are the first ones who come to mind he could never do anything because they kept and keep running their asses over with their real party the "REPUBLIcoN Party.

[yeoman6987]

24. If not for her, there would be ZERO ACA

Sometime I just wonder........

[butterfly77]

28. If not for her..

many other things would have passed so she can kiss my ass. See I made a rhyme

[yeoman6987]

29. Oh brother....and I don't think you are correct.

You are saying she was the final vote on yes or no on a particular bill. This I gotta see.

[butterfly77]

33. She needed to be gone..

along with many others. The CONS get everything they want anyway she wasn't helping. CONS stick together Dems don't.

Oh,I forgot she wasn't a Democrat...

[Thinkingabout]

17. Let's see how Cassidy is going to welcome your thoughts, got a feeling he will vote with the

oil companies, vote against raising minimum wage, yep, he is going to be against Democrat issues.

[bornskeptic]

82. Basically, the ONLY difference between Landrieu and Cassidy

is on all the other issues besides oil.

[G_j]

20. I agree with everything you say, yet sadly

if I lived In Louisisana, I would have voted for her. That is how bad it is today. I think the BP disaster was an incredible, unforgivable crime, yet I'd still have to vote for her.

[liberal_at_heart]

21. exactly. Why is civil rights justice an absolute with Democrats but economic justice not?

If we were sitting here talking about Democrats who vote against civil rights justice the boards would be filled with vitriol. And yet the vitriol is aimed at those who would demand that Democrats also defend economic justice just as absolutely as civil liberty. I will not apologize for demanding economic justice just as I'm sure those who would, would not apologize for demanding civil justice

[treestar]

25. It's one thing to dislike her and another to cheer her being beat by a Republican

Whose since will be far worse that hers. I hate the black and white thinking about very complex things.

[Metric System]

39. +1

[Cosmic Kitten]

49. Its not black or white!

She was not a dependable Democratic voice.
Saying you are a Dem, and doing as a Dem are not synonymous

She was an UNELECTABLE Republican.
So she ran as a Democrat.
She LOST her seat as a republican pretending to be Democrat.
No real loss.

[treestar]

55. She voted with us a majority of the time

You can't simply decide for the rest of the world who is a Democrat. She was a Democrat.

[rpannier]

50. It's not necessarily black and white thinking

She often muddied the message of the party.
She vocally took positions that were at odds with the party, even so much as criticizing the idea.
Name one Republican that does that.

Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe had positions that were in opposition to their party, but they didn't (don't) distance themselves from the party.
They don't give Democrats the opportunity to use them against the party.
They vote and then pretty much shut up about it
That is also true of Ayotte (NH), Kirk (IL) and so on down the line
You will not see Kirk or Ayotte running in 2016 as something other than the party. This will be true for Republicans in blue states around the country.
Landrieux did not run as a Democrat, she doesn't articulate why she is even in the Party.
In the end, she tried to get African-Americans and women out to vote for her, but she ran into the same problem others do; She can't get them to vote for her because she only seems to care what they think at election time.

My late Eisenhower-Republican, Kennedy-Democrat voting grandfather used to sayt, "I'd rather get stabbed in the stomach than get knifed in the back."

[treestar]

56. Someone had a stat on how often she voted for Democrats

She's better than the Republican who replaces her, hands down.

[rpannier]

64. That may be

But, it does not change the fact that she does muddy the message of the party by being publicly critical of the party and she hasn't defined why she is a member of the Party or why people should vote Democratic

You didn't address any of what I mentioned above.

Maybe she should have explained why she was the better choice
Maybe she should have explained what she did for her constituents
Maybe she should have articulated a message that would bring out people to vote for her

Her loss, while disappointing (especially since I donated to her run-off campaign), is just that... her loss.

[JI7]

26. Did Ted KEnnedy deserve hate for opposition to wind farms ?

[liberal_at_heart]

27. Maybe. Democrats are going along with Republicans on fracking and it is leading

to very expensive natural gas prices and heating costs, not to mention environmental damage. It is time for Democrats to represent the people in economic matters, not businesses.

[treestar]

40. It is not that straightforward

The blind idea that businesses are always bad would sink us. There has to be an economy. Businesses have to do well for people to have jobs. A business that employs many people in a state will have support from actual people.

[DonCoquixote]

57. no one is sayign business is bad

But the Oil Companies in Louisiana have been killiing people for years. She did NOT have to give Obama a nice big monkey in the gears by holding up the Budget posoiton, which of course was key to the party as a whole. It is one thing to give halfhearted support, it is another to actively backstab and undermine.

[Blanks]

90. The democrats have led the charge on alternative energies...

For a democrat to support Fracking and not at least equally support biofuel research while recognizing that Fracking is non-renewable while biogas is a pollutant and we can 'harvest' it from feed lots, landfills and sewage treatment plants. This is a democrat not siding with the party.

Small business is where new jobs, innovation and new technology come from. A democrat that supports big oil Fracking while remaining silent on renewables and speaking of the small businesses that can be created by pursuing these kind of sustainable jobs may very well think that they're catering to their constituents, but they are being short sighted and need kicked to the curb. IMHO

[Miigwech]

30. So long

She deserved to lose. Now she can become lobbyist for the XL Pipeline. She is a big clown. Such a shame that she has a "D" after her name.

[daleanime]

36. K&R....

[UTUSN]

42. Hope you enjoy your full blown Rethug LOTS !1 n/t

[drthais]

45. ok lets get one thing straight here

I have lived in Louisiana all my life
and I have held my nose and voted for Mary more than once...
she voted for torture, she voted for the war,
she voted for the oil companies, she voted for many, many things that I cannot live with -
but we have never been given a progressive choice down here.
I'm not entirely sorry to see her go, but the alternatives are SO much worse.

now that Cassidy (oh god) and Graves (sorry Edwin I voted for you) have been elected, I will tell you this:
I know my neighbors and they are a racist, god-fearin religious freakazoid bunch...and I have had it.
It is so very hard to live surrounded by conservatives...they HATE Obama, they hate ALL democrats
no matter who they are...and, I'm sorry, but they hate black people.

The media may be allergic to an honest discussion of race and religion
but both are real and both drive the white conservatives to the polls.

We are currently looking to move to an area where progressives have a voice.
It is late for us - we are near retirement - but we just can't take it anymore.

[MisterP]

47. that's the problem with voting for candidates rather than just party:

every complaint about "she voted for torture, she voted for the war, she voted for the oil companies, she voted for many, many things that I cannot live with" is utterly null and void ... since you'd still "hold your nose"TM

it's like the mob--they try to corner you into voting for torture, war, pollution, etc.

[Miigwech]

67. Sorry

I feel so sorry for you having to live in a place like you describe. I used to live in Texas. When I lived there, in the 1980's, folks were pretty much "live and let live" .... Now the South and South West have become the torch bearers of blatant hate, religious bigotry, gun nuts, and low information (ignorance). The dummies are proud of their racism and stupidity! Of course there are pockets of sanity, found in the large cities, but with the gerrymandering that has taken place, it may take years, if ever that these States can see a positive change.
Don't the folks there have a belly full of hate already? Come on, live a peaceful and happy life by just loving your fellow man.

[JDPriestly]

48. I like your signature line.

Agree with your post. It isn't about being pure. It is about having common sense.

Of course, for Democrats to rely on the corporations to be our friends is silly because the corporations may help Democrats a little, but they are going to help Republicans the most. It's called corruption. That's the name of the corporate game.

[Historic NY]

51. Hey isn't that easy to say you live in the Peoples Republic of florida...

perhaps in 20 yrs after the Republicans spit it out into the bayou the people who should have at least tried to vote in their interest will learn something. Right now they can fish or cut bait.

[DonCoquixote]

60. hey hey

And Chuckie Crist is another fine example of someone whosepanderign wound up making the democrats useless as an opposition party, but then again, people on this board love to chide us for how our electiosn go, then in the same breath chide us for not voting for (insert centre-right creephere.) Then again, this is the state that somehow elects Alan Grayson, who actually is a real democrat.

[Cha]

75. It's Charlie Crist and he's a good man.. no matter what journey he took to get there.. enjoy

Rick fucking Scott for four more years.

[DonCoquixote]

81. I voted for Crist

but my Democratic party did not put up anyone that frankly would earn people's trust, instead they thought Charlie could just play republican lite and win people over. The Rick Scotts of the world will not be defeated by people who say "Hey, I am just like this guy but with less aftertaste." I am hoping that we run someone like Bob Buckhorn (Tampa mayor) who does not mind throwng a few punches. So before you say enjoy Rick Dcott, think about the fact the person you are insulting is someone who voted for Crist, and spent moneths arguing to people why they should vote for him, both my left wng and right wing friends.

[DonCoquixote]

52. to the mealy mouthed who say "enjoy your Republican"

When you have someone who tries to actively use her democrat credibility to make the party BEND RIGHT, and to actively hurt those who try to keep the party from going right, you are supportign someone who will do as much damage to us as an outsider. Yes the GOP scumbage will be a tea party asshole, but at the very least, he will not convince democrats to actively shun their base and their princuiples because Mary needs to feed the Oil Companies another shovelful of dead children.

And the those who say she had no choice, well then, after the Oil companies did al the damage, did she have nothign to go on. Maybe she just did not want to represent peope, that were hurt and wanted to keep getting the meat fromthe Oil,Companies, the same people that slammed the door in her face when she asked for help in katrina. If she actively opposes Obama tryign to get a BUdget helper, how much good will she be?

Cancer will kill you as much as a bullet can, at least now, maybe the democrats can start shooting instead of haviing Mary "I held up Obama foy my masters" Landrieu say "dammit, I need to rot a few more pounds of your internal organs..I'll make it up to you by voting for some civil rights issue that will be ignored because my masters will buy people to kill it."

[treestar]

59. How do you expect to persuade anyone by calling them mealy mouthed?

Senators don't try to bend the party to the right. They try to win in their state.

[DonCoquixote]

65. That is the nature of this problem

The left is always expected to be polite, apologetic, and kowtowing like an underpaid butler,while the right wing gets to insult, nreak rules, and throw punches. People are defebnding Mary because she suppsoedly was one of the few that fought for us, and the method she fought was by her kowtiowing and givign the GOP every damn thing they wanted and then some.

[TwilightGardener]

53. Just a red state Dem trying to survive. I was never a big fan, but

I don't think she deserves hate.

[liberal_at_heart]

54. there would be plenty of hate coming her way if she voted against civil rights.

Would people still defend Blue Dog Dems if they were just trying to survive in a red state if they voted against civil rights so they could garner support from voters? Why is it okay to vote against economic justice?

[treestar]

58. They wouldn't

They are Democrats. What is economic justice to people in LA? How did she vote "against economic justice?"

[DonCoquixote]

62. refer to my blue links

that refer to "Cancer alley". The fact is, the Oil indistry is condicting chemical warfare against Black people, and then has the nerve to try and cut the medical funding that those illness need funded,just so that Bobby Jondal can pretend he is a preppy. Economic Justice is also makign sure your state gets compensated for beign used like an ashtray by BP, instead of giving in.

[Cha]

76. Oh the haters gotta hate. They will not be deterred.

[DonCoquixote]

85. a paradox

You have a stop keystone XL ad, while defending the one person who tired to save Keystone xl at the expense of many on the left, including Obama, whose "back" you ad claims you have. Thank you for illustrating the current naturer of our party.

[pintobean]

68. Hate is a very destructive force, Don.

nt

[Maedhros]

77. It's hard to wage a war with turncoats in the ranks [n/t]

[MADem]

78. What an offensive FAIL of a post.

When her lunatic replacement gets to vote for the next Supreme Court justice, you pat yourself on the back, OK?

[HereSince1628]

84. All a consequence of the democratic party, politically speaking, being a 'strange attractor'

known to exist primarily through manifestation of non-uniform perspectives seen from myriads of trajectories cycling around one of multiple nodes of a system seen as two-dominant tracks.

Mathematically speaking, trajectories within an attractor system do not have to satisfy any special constraints except for remaining within the attractor when traced backward and forward in time.

Politically speaking, politicians, voters, and the themes of posts of DUers under the influence of this attractor do not have to satisfy any special constraints except for remaining trapped over time by the influence of the attractor, but which are independent of the local effects of nearby points which cluster perspectives (and DU jury verdicts).

A broader, longer term perspective suggests that while at random instants in time the vectors of individual trajectories appear as tracks in opposite directions on paths destined to escape, those tracks nonetheless bend and thereby define the boundary of the attractor.

Loyalty to the attractor may be less political choice and more psychological coping mechanism to reduce the anxiety of not being able to escape the chaos. Angst at 'errant' paths may be less anger and more anxiety that some will actually successfully escape.

[bobclark86]

86. Good luck getting a more liberal Dem elected there...

"Now, we DO, repeat DO, Italicize, Captalize, underline and Boldface DO need Southern leaders who will be UNCOMPROMISING in ALL of those areas. Putting food on the table may require discussion, bit civil rights are ABSOLUTES, period. "

Now we have a teabagger who won't do ANY of those things, the exact opposite of what you want, which you seem to think is better.

Your logic is this: Somebody is 95 percent with the president. If they aren't 100 percent against the president to the left, 100 percent against him on the right is preferable to being with him.



You sound like Bender from Futurama getting kicked out of the moon amusement park and saying "Yeah? Well, I'll start my own amusement park! With blackjack! And hookers!"

[B Calm]

87. Good luck getting a more conservative Dem elected there...

[DonCoquixote]

88. sigh

Mary Landrieu did not just backstab the president,
she did nto just jeopardize the budget we ALL need by playing politics,

but she is repsonsioble for the sufferign of many black residents of her state that are literaly beign killed.

Is that somethign you want to support?

Yes, the teabagger will try to do all oftha t, but at least we can active;y oppose that idiot, as opposed to having to check how many of our own compromises we make so that Mary can get fed another month, so he can half hearted say "I am for gay rights" while supporting the people whose MONEY updermines them every which way. Do ypou not realize that is long as Mary is the OIl companies [puppet,l she can and will undermine our efforts as a whole?

This is not about neing 100 percent with Obama. Indeed, if she had to oppose Obama, it coudl have and should have been for the fact he let BP get a slap on the wrist; in stead, she HELD UP THE BUDGET DIRECTOR so that instead of a slap on the wrist,l she could kiss the oil companies ring.

[bobclark86]

91. Any time anyone says...

"Yes, the teabagger is bad, BUT..." I tend to tune out.

I would rather have someone who is close-ish to me than a polar opposite.

Guess what? There wasn't a progressive Democrat running. It was between a moderate Democrat and a tea party Republican. And anyone who says a teabagger is better in that situation is in violation of the TOS. Discussionist is up and running, from what I hear.