I work in the Bronx courts

[AndreaCG]

I process cases where people are arrested for selling cigarettes illegally. Generally they get a violation not a misdemeanor, and maybe a fine and/or community service. Very rarely jail, even with a history of past convictions. This execution by cop is just horrific. My coworkers that I've seen post about it agree. They are blaming the DAs office. Unfortunately in NYS grand jury proceedings are secret. We will probably never know what happened. But we do know the other cops were granted immunity, which in itself is fucked up, so I have no confidence that the DA presented the case trying to get an indictment.

[WillyT]

1. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[okaawhatever]

2. Thanks for your input Andrea nt

[riqster]

3. Kick!

[HappyMe]

4. Thanks for this info.

This is very fucked up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. REC!

[elleng]

6. Thanks for the insight.

I've been wondering about the DA and the office too. Hope we'll hear/see more soon.

[herding cats]

7. The DA played defense for the cop is what most are speculating in my circle.

Which seems to go along with what your people feel. I'm not saying he shouldn't have had a chance of a rigorous defense at trial, but the grand jury is not the time, nor the place, for any sort of defense case. That's where a DA is supposed to be giving it their all to get an indictment.

The system is rigged against the victims of police violence, most especially if you're black and male.

[AngryAmish]

16. don't believe black females get off

Black folks just are screwed.

[herding cats]

20. I agree.

I almost left it as gender generic then thought about how many black males are victims of police violence, and changed it. In general, though, you're the one correct here. If you have dark skin in this country you're just screwed.

[panader0]

8. Isn't Holder getting into this now?

[FiveGoodMen]

21. Not unless the cops are smoking pot

[panader0]

22. Holder said after the decision not to indict

that the Justice Department would investigate a possible civil rights violation.

[FiveGoodMen]

27. I hope he follows through

[former9thward]

37. The DOJ always says that after a controversial decision.

It is a way to keep the heat off of them. After a year or two when everyone is off to other things they will issue a report with no charges. It is very difficult to bring federal charges because they have to prove the cop intended to deprive the person they killed their civil rights. Nearly impossible to prove that.

[rhett o rick]

33. I think he is negotiating with Wall Street for his next job. nm

[Voice for Peace]

36. Attorney General Eric Holder Plans ‘Institute of Justice’ to Address Protest Concerns

http://time.com/3617425/ferguson-garner-eric-holder-attorney-general/

Attorney General Eric Holder has begun drafting plans to continue his work rebuilding the relationship between local law enforcement and the black community after he leaves public office next year.

“This whole notion of reconciliation between law enforcement and communities of color is something that I really want to focus on and to do so in a very organized way,” he said Tuesday in an interview with TIME. “Not just as Eric Holder, out there giving speeches—though certainly that could be a part of it—but to have maybe a place where this kind of effort is housed and to be associated with that kind of an entity.”

His preparation comes at a time when the nation’s top law enforcement officer has launched a national tour to meet with black leaders and law enforcement around the country, amid daily protests over grand jury decisions in New York City and Ferguson, Mo., to not bring charges against police officers who killed unarmed black men. On Monday, Holder spoke at Atlanta’s Ebenezer Baptist Church, a civil rights landmark, and on Thursday he will travel to Cleveland, where a police officer recently shot a 12-year-old black boy, Tamir Rice, who was playing with an air gun.

-more at link-

[rhett o rick]

41. That sounds swell. He has been a US Atty General or Deputy US Atty General

for almost 10 total years. I am not at all impressed with his accomplishments. He certainly talks the talk.

[Voice for Peace]

42. I don't know what he's been doing for ten years, but I'm not presuming it's nothing.

[rhett o rick]

44. His top priority has been to bust LEGAL medical marijuana dispensers. Sending them to

prison for 20 years. He other priority has been to go easy on Wall Street corruption. He is looking forward to that "Swinging Door" Wall Street job.

If you don't know what he has been doing for ten years, it's probably nothing.

Oh yeah, he increase the prison term for the good Gov Siegelman. A political prisoner railroaded by the KARL ROVE AND THE REPUBLICANS.

[Voice for Peace]

49. I guess you don't like him much.

[rhett o rick]

50. Having a top priority of sending medical marijuana dispensers (legal in the state) to prison

isn't the action of someone fighting for the 99%. Further more he has looked the other way from Wall Street crime.

We are in a class war and Mr. Holden is on the wrong side.

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Despite all the B.S. responses attacking Holder that you got ...

There is really very little Holder can do!

Civil Rights prosecutions are VERY difficult because in order to bring one, there has to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the killing was BECAUSE the victim was (in this case) Black. Absent some racist rant during the confrontation, or a clear history of the officer being a racist, there just is no there there.

[ellennelle]

9. input greatly appreciated

but so everyone is reminded here, GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS ARE ALWAYS SECRET!

at least, they are supposed to be.

think about it; if no true bill is issued, then the person accused should never have to be publicly humiliated or condemned.

not trying to protect wilson here, but the rest of us. this is a good arrangement, and should be respected and kept that way.

however, when an incident involves a killing at the hands of a police officer, imho an independent prosecutor should ALWAYS be brought in to conduct the grand jury proceedings; this should be the law.

making the ferguson grand jury docs public was damn near unprecedented; it was mccullough's best bet for protecting wilson at all costs, while maintaining the appearance of legality and fairness.

nothing could be further from fair or even legal. mccullough conducted this grand jury as if it were a full court, but without any adversarial representation for the victim, so there was no cross-examination.

this is what made the whole thing so perverse; typically the prosecutor uses the grand jury to indict someone of a crime so they can be charged and the prosecutor can prosecute him or her. in this case, he was defending wilson. just twisted.

i'll bet everyone here can think of a gazillion questions they'd have loved to ask wilson under cross-examination, and under oath. like oh, i dunno, how tall are you, sir? and you felt how puny? how long has this fear for your manhood been a problem? does that gun help?

[KMOD]

10. Thanks, Andrea

It boggles my mind that they would even detain him for this. Why not just write a citation.

It's so sad that Mr. Garner is dead, suffocated by the police, over a couple of cigarettes.

[greatlaurel]

11. Thanks for the information. Appreciate you taking the time to let us know what you and your

coworkers are thinking. I am so ashamed that there will be no justice for Mr. Garner. I am outraged that the national media is mostly ignoring the murder of Tamir Rice in Cleveland. The murder of this child is beyond belief.

[amandabeech]

12. Thank you for posting.

The officers' actions were reprehensible. There is no way that Mr. Garner should receive the death sentence for selling untaxed cigarettes. Thank heavens that the take-down was filmed, and there can be no doubts.

[davidpdx]

13. What is the typical fine out of curiosity?

I would think that most of the people doing that wouldn't be able to afford the fines and would have that hanging over their head because of a lack of ability to pay them (kind of like the tickets in Ferguson).

I saw the video and it was horrific. Unfortunately the outcome is what I expected.

[AndreaCG]

25. There are two types of charges

Fines and mandatory surcharges. The mandatory surcharge for a misdemeanor is 200. For a violation it's 120. This can be waived for indigence and go as a judgment against your credit till you pay. Fines are generally 100 or less from what I see. Depending on the charge and the details of the case. These are not waived for indigence but people are given numerous chances to pay, even if they've missed a court date and warranted. The judges are aware that most defendants are poor.

Most of the cigarette cases I see are not people selling "loosies" like Garner but stores selling untaxed ones from other states. Yes the cops check the stores. They also go around to stores for knock off merchandise, which doesn't particularly bother me, but also to try to sell "stolen" merchandise which kind of does. And they also send auxiliary police who are underage to buy liquor illegally. They may try this with cigarettes too now that the sale age is 21.

[passiveporcupine]

14. seems like for a misdemeanor they should just issue a ticket,

not try to arrest someone. The whole thing was fucked up.

[treestar]

15. did they even need an arrest?

why not a paper summons?

[world wide wally]

38. Why not a simple, friendly warning?

How much revenue do they really think this was costing the state of NY?

[rug]

17. I bet a Bronx Grand jury would indict, regardless of the DA.

[branford]

18. The Bronx is not Staten Island.

A LOT of cops live in Richmond County (Staten Island), and it is VERY pro-police.

To even many long-time residents of NYC like myself, Staten Island sometimes feels like another country.

[rug]

19. And the Bronx is the poorest county in the state.

If nothing else, poverty sniffs out bullshit.

[Dorian Gray]

32. Not only cops,

but firemen. I know quite a few from NJ who wanted to become NYC firemen, so they moved to Staten Island... close to the Outerbridge Crossing... so they're right close to their families but can work in Manhattan as a fireman.

I think SI attracts a lot of working class city employees, as well. It's cheaper than any other boro.

[LiberalElite]

23. No question. NT

[AndreaCG]

24. The Bronx has indicted cops

The DA I believe is still Rob Johnson who is black. There are things you can criticize about his office (like incompetence of many of his staff, which contributes to our terrible backload of cases, though it's not the only reason) but he's not loath to indict cops. I would say in general the Bronx jurors are quite suspicious of cops, understandably so with the racist stop and frisk policy. Which has officially stopped but I'm not really seeing reduced numbers in my department yet.

[Historic NY]

26. For one the violated their own PD rules using the choke hold...

[Sweeney]

28. Everybody dies.

Not everybody kills. If I have to be on one side or the other of that, I think I'll die. I may have contributed to some deaths. I never actually killed anyone. That means there is one of the ten commandments I have not deliberately trampled on. Just about everything rotten a person can do in one life can be made up for. I don't know if anyone has ever made murder right, and If I am going to hell then, that is fine. I am just not going to punch my own ticket to get there.
Sweeney

[VScott]

29. Maybe NYC should cease with the ridiculously high cigarette taxes?

They're the ones responsible for creating a black market for this kind of activity.

[RoccoR5955]

60. Thank you for parroting Rand Paul

Troll!

[VScott]

62. What makes you think that I didn't come up with the idea first and on my own?

[shallwechat]

30. im not suprised....ham sandwich

As one nyc er stated here that staten island tends to be very pro-police. And if staten island is only richmond county ny?...small population to draw from in a jury pool and they are very pro police, would the sample be biased? and furguson is a glimpse into how the DA pursues cop crimes in a grand jury.....is any one suprised?

[noiretextatique]

31. no

No one is surprised.

[sunnystarr]

34. As far as I know

it has not been established that he was selling loosies that day. Only that he had a record for selling loosies. I read somewhere that he was at the store helping to break up some sort of fight. Of course that could be solved by knowing if he had any loosies on him to sell or if there is any evidence that he was observed trying to sell them that day.

[former9thward]

35. The DA was trying to get an indictment.

That is exactly why the other cops were granted immunity. He wanted their testimony.

[brooklynite]

39. "I process cases where people are arrested..."

Okay, this is what troubles me. Nobody supports use of the chokehold in this case, or the failure to indict the officer for doing so. But I keep seeing "he was killed for selling cigarettes". Wrong. He was ARRESTED for selling cigarettes, just as, apparently, he would have been arrested in the Bronx. From the video, he appears to have resisted arrest (he certainly resisted being handcuffed) which led to inappropriate actions to subdue him. But let's not go so far back as to say he shouldn't have been arrested in the first place, or that the police has no legitimate reason to engage him.. Argue that the law shouldn't be on the books if you want to; but it is.

[KMOD]

45. What was the probable cause to arrest him?

It looks to me like he was arrested for being a large black man, who dared to question why they were harassing him.

[brooklynite]

46. "Misdemeanor cases over alleged untaxed cigarettes preceded fatal police incident with Eric Garner"

Staten Island Advance:

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. Eric Garner had run afoul of the law several times for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes before his fatal confrontation with police on Thursday, court records show.

...snip...

Seven months later, while out on $1,000 bail, Garner was busted on March 28 for allegedly selling unstamped cigarettes on the street outside of 200 Bay St., Tompkinsville. He had 24 packs of untaxed smokes in his possession, police said.

The location is next door to 202 Bay St., where the fatal confrontation occurred Thursday between cops and Garner.

[KMOD]

47. No. What happened in March, does not give police the right

to arrest and kill him on July 17th.

Where was the probable cause on July 17th?

[sabrina 1]

52. Wow!! So they killed him for cigarette taxes. I remember when Canada made cigarettes illegal

After six months airc, the law was rescinded because it resulted in crime. NYS's draconian Drug Laws, and now its draconian cigarette taxes, which target the poor and minorities more than the wealthy, and create a climate where cops can target minorities and the poor AGAIN.

Too bad he wasn't a Wall St Banker where he could have stolen BILLIONS from the tax payers and his Government would have not only looked the other way, but bailed him out.

He made a few dollars and deprived the state of a few cents per cigarette and they send out the cops to get him.

[brooklynite]

53. Once again, no. They ARRESTED him for cigarette taxes.

They killed him by mishandling the arrest.

[uppityperson]

55. The article says he was free on bail. He had been arrested in May, but why was he being arrested

in July since he was out on bail?

At the time of his death, the Port Richmond resident had three misdemeanor cases pending in Stapleton Criminal Court. He was free on $2,000 bail.

(clip)

Garner last appeared in court to answer the three cases on July 2. The matters were all adjourned then to Oct. 7, online state court records show.

[brooklynite]

56. He had been charged multiple times on multiple instances...

...presumably the suspicion was that he was selling again.

[uppityperson]

57. So he broke up a fight, cops showed up and decided maybe he was selling again?

I wonder what cause they had beyond "he did it in the past".

[sabrina 1]

59. And they wouldn't have been there if the State he lives in wasn't engaging in more draconian

'laws' on the pretext of 'concern' for the well being of its citizens. No one would be out there trying to buy cheap cigarettes if these horrific taxes, which mostly affect the poor, had not been imposed by NYS.

And the cops would never have come in contact with him. Another racist 'war on drugs', just like the other one.

[librechik]

43. stop and frisk gone wild? Andrea CG

since Giuliani, isn't there a drive by "the public" i.e., shopkeepers and NYC investors, to clear the streets of certain types of people who who might scare tourists away? Was Garner's visible location an issue, where he needed to be removed, not merely given a citation?

[AndreaCG]

54. Possibly

I process arrests in the Bronx for aggressive panhandling (not the official charge, usually disorderly conduct along with an administrative code misdemeanor I forget the exact name of). This is usually people panhandling on one of the highway entrance ramps and disturbing the flow of traffic. Less often someone panhandling in front of a business keeping people from entering and leaving. The arrests for what could be called loitering are usually for being in a park after hours or a building you don't live in. How it works on Staten Island I am not sure.

[librechik]

58. thx for your opinion! n/t

[DeSwiss]

48. Duh.

- No shit.

Fuck the police.........

[MissDeeds]

51. Thanks so much for posting this

Too much power to too few, all in secrecy. Wow. What country is this?

K&R

[Enthusiast]

61. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!