Michael Brown is Dead Because He Did Not Say, "Yassuh, Massa"

[MineralMan]

when a racist cop gave him an order to get out of the street. He pissed off a bigoted cop, who escalated what should have been an inconsequential incident to the point where he shot a young black man and killed him.

Michael Brown committed the capital offense of not doing what a white cop told him to do. He was executed for that, and not for anything else.

That's my considered opinion after thinking about the entire incident.

If you're a young black man and a cop tells you do do something, the only response acceptable to the cop is "Yassuh Massa." Anything else is a capital offense, and you may end up dead.

This must stop.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

1. I think you are absolutely correct, when the cop said "get the fuck out of the street"

the last thing the racist cop expected was for this young person to talk back to him.

That, more than anything, is why he is dead.

[MineralMan]

4. At that point, things went horribly wrong, because a white cop

just couldn't stand being defied by this black kid. It's that simple, I think, and it relates to many similar incidents between white cops and black men. It is racism, pure and simple. It is bigotry based on false beliefs that are very, very deeply ingrained into many people. It needs to stop.

[summerschild]

15. I agree, MineralMan!

[Louisiana1976]

52. +1 million

[KingCharlemagne]

40. According to Dorian Johnson's testimony in Volume 4 of the GJ transcript, Mike

Brown said absolutely nothing to Wilson, the only person speaking to him being Johnson (acc. to Johnon's testimony). Wilson spun this elaborate fable that had Brown saying to him 'You're too much of a pussy to shoot,' but no other eye- or ear witness corroborates that.

[BobbyBoring]

90. Yeah, just too much of a pussy!

A black kid in an area with a history of racism doesn't think a white pig will shoot him?

I have a few bridges for sale for anyone that believes that and a lot of people believe it.

[KingCharlemagne]

92. I plan later when my temper has cooled to read the transcript of Wilson's

testimony (in Volume 5) but, yeah, right now, it sounds like really bad pulp fiction, the kind of script that a Steven Seagall, Chuck Norris or the post-Rocky Sylvester Stallone (Rambo) would star in.

[phil89]

99. Clearly you haven't read

much about this case if that's your conclusion.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

104. Me and a few million others...

Are ignorant per what you just said, i guess we dont know anything about it and you do...

[azmom]

2. I agree

[malaise]

3. +1,000

because of course the notion of post-racial America is one big myth.

[MineralMan]

8. You're absolutely right.

And bigotry is still present everywhere. When cops are bigots, people suffer, because cops have guns. Far too many people still believe that people of color should be obedient and passive. When rage results from this false belief, people die.

[malaise]

11. Precisely

Remember Obama dare not get angry because that 'angry black man' is a big part of the caricature.

[Gothmog]

108. President Obama has been showing a great deal of self control over the years

[malaise]

112. Way more than I would have shown

[Liberal Lolita]

48. And the biggest deniers of racism

are usually the most racist among us, from my experience.

[Louisiana1976]

58. Racism is like global warming. Some people deny it, but it exists.

[malaise]

87. You are correct

[Oktober]

5. At least you can admit that it is just an opinion...

Usually these come across as declared facts...

[MineralMan]

9. Everything I post is my opinion.

That's right there in my signature line. Everything everyone posts here in their own words is their opinion. I don't have to say it in every post. Everything you say here in your own words is your opinion.

[99Forever]

49. And his opinion is shared by the vast majority of decent human beings.

The rest are outliers and most are racists.

[Oktober]

77. Based on copious research on your part I'm sure...

[99Forever]

111. The obvious is obvious.

If you had been paying even a little bit of attention to how your numerous attempts in defense of the murdering cop have fared on this forum, you'd know that.

[MadDAsHell]

117. We don't represent "the vast majority" of anything on DU.

It's a little prideful (and more than misleading) to insinuate that we do.

You can't call the populace "fucking idiots" when we lose an election and assume that viewpoint is mainstream. We're Democratic "Underground" for a reason.

[F4lconF16]

118. The poster did write

"vast majority of decent human beings" for a reason.

Just to clarify.

[MadDAsHell]

120. Thanks, I do understand that...

but then the poster referred to how another poster's opinions would fare on the DU Forums, as if that determines the validity of someone's opinion in the real world.

We have a specialized home here where we expect opinions to fall within certain parameters, and that's ok, that's why we're here. But the rest of the world is considerably more open, nothing wrong with admitting that.

[99Forever]

128. Just a suggestion.

When you have yet to be here a month, it might be wise to tune up one's reading comprehension before attempting to play critic of some of us that have been here for years. Catch my drift? I was just going to ignore the silliness of your response to me and then you had to post this nonsense as if you were some long standing member of this community. You don't even have triple digits of posts and you seriously think I'm interested in your critique of my words that you CLEARLY didn't understand?

[Rex]

6. I think that is about the closest we will get to the truth.

The officer decided to harass them, they balked and Wilson went psycho.

[loyalsister]

7. That's exactly it!

Thanks for laying it out in the starkest possible terms.

[Kablooie]

10. But even white guys are advised to meekly comply to police commands.

I've learned that if you have a complaint, deal with it afterwards because confronting police always has the possibility of a dangerous escalation.

[BootinUp]

12. We all learn these things but not at the exact same age. nt

[MineralMan]

14. That's a good idea, certainly.

But, if you're a white guy, it's far less likely that you'll end up dead if you don't comply meekly. Besides, the cop will probably say, "Do this, sir" to a white guy. Noncompliance with the commands of a cop is not a capital offense. It's simply not.

[Kablooie]

20. True the escalation is likely to be more extreme for AfAm people.

Swallowing your pride for a moment is certainly the safest thing for everyone, though I can see it could be harder to do for some people in certain situations.

If only the cop could have shown a modicum of respect when first giving the first command everything might have been different.

And of course the escalation in this case was just insane.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. First encounter with police at 18 the cop greeted us this way 'You fags need to get out of town'.

It was the town I was born in. The word 'sir' was never used.

[MineralMan]

98. Yes. You were part of another oppressed minority group.

Racism isn't the only flaw many police have.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. In December of 2011, in the shadow of 9/11, I, a white woman, decided NOT

to meekly comply with the ridiculous demands of an airport police officer. I even yelled at him. I did not die. I was not cuffed. Not a single bullet flew. And he even gave me his badge number.

[brewens]

123. Here's an encounter that even as a white guy would not turn out the same these days. About 1981

on a snowy New Years Eve, I was struggling to get up a hill in my car with a buddy riding with me and I had been drinking. Not much yet because it was still fairly early but I'd had a few. I was going to get stuck and have to back down the hill so I bailed out onto a side street that was marked Do Not Enter! A cop saw me and before I could flip around and go back down the hill, he pulled me over.

The officer came up and asked for the usual DL and registration and I quickly and politely appologized and explained that I had to pull in there or end up backing down the hill, a much more dangerous option. The cop reasonably agreed and said he could tell that's what I was doing and asked if I'd been drinking? I told him yes, but I wasn't drunk. Talking to me, he evidently sized up that I was obviously not very drunk, if at all, and told me that if I was going to drink any more, he'd better not see my car again that night and that was the end of it.

White or black, there is no freakin' way that happens these days! The system now is that in a case like that, another cop would be on the scene immediately, and smelling alcohol, you'd get a field sobriety test and probably have to blow, no matter what. If you managed to pass that, you'd still get a ticket. It would be your fault for driving in conditions you weren't prepared for. The second cop, usually a shift supervisor, is there to make sure his guys don't give you a break.

Cops are more cut throat these days in general. No doubt they are much harder on minorities. The days of the really good guy cop, just out there doing the job and not really giving a shit about nailing people are over.

[Spazito]

13. Well said...

I completely agree.

[noiretextatique]

16. i agree. i was in that situation once

during a racial profiling traffic stop. rookie cop ordered me onto the sidewalk, for my safety, and i refused because it was dark and i wanted to be seen by passersby, so he wouldn't mistake my cell phone for a gun. and i told him exactly that. he was angry as hell....thank god his partner told him to leave me alone. it was an ENOUGH IS ENOUGH moment. i can understand why someone just says: ENOUGH. i am not dealing with this shit another second. i am tired of being harassed...for nothing. i am tired of having to play this humiliating game. i am a middle-aged black woman; if i was a young black man, i might be in a grave right now.

[MineralMan]

28. Yes. You were right to do that,

but also right to say it might have turned out differently if you were a black man. I'm sorry that it is so.

[noiretextatique]

42. second part of this story: the justus tax

i got a ticket for driving without lights (an offense that really isn't an offense in CA) and standing in the street. so, i went to court and posted the $450.00 fine so i could have my day in court. most of the other people there, innocent or not, agreed to plead guilty so they could make payments on the fine. i won my case because the cops didn't show up, and the judge was clearly disgusted and perplexed by the charges because she apologized to me. BUT, i never forgot all those other people who were barred from their day in court because of money.

[MineralMan]

51. Yes. Most people just have to eat the fine, instead of

fighting it. Good for you for following through and insisting on receiving justice. You're unusual in doing that.

[noiretextatique]

61. i didn't do anything wrong, except forget to turn on my lights

in a brightly-lit downtown area. it happens a lot, and the police usually use their loudspeakers or flash their lights, like everyone else. they were looking for someone, and apparently i fit some profile...or not.

[KingCharlemagne]

45. I salute and applaud your courage. - nt

[noiretextatique]

47. it helped that a friend was right behind me, watching the whole thing

and i just lost it. normally i would not have reacted like that, but i think it was a few weeks after Taiesha Miller was killed. I was DONE.

[daleanime]

17. Exactly!

My view also.

[heaven05]

18. you are absolutely correct

no doubt, no equivocation. Nationwide, it is becoming more like the "old/new south" of the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50', 60's, 70's.....and on and on to 21st century-2014.

[NYC_SKP]

19. True, partly, but that's a dangerously narrow conclusion you're making.

The problem is larger than one about race.

Don't doubt for one minute that a white kid in similar attire on the same street, or a hispanic or asian kid, would have been given a pass.

Don't do that, it's far too kind to the perpetrator, Darren Wilson, and the thousands upon thousands of others like him.

This is about failure to comply, the hair trigger is more sensitive for blacks but the problem is deeper than skin color.

I fear for us all when people jump too quickly to one simple conclusion and don't look deeper.

I can't rec this post for that reason, it tends to distract from the problem and from finding the best solution.

All cops need to respect all citizens with deference and respect.

[JEB]

21. I admire people including kids who

are willing to challenge authority. This country needs a lot more of them.

[NYC_SKP]

23. Yes, indeed. And, kids are being indoctrinated to accept the new police state.

So I'm all for educating them toward a different outcome.

‘I thought he was going to shoot me.’ Unsuspecting middle school students terrified by active shooter drill.



Police officers in Florida surprised students, teachers and parents Thursday with an active shooter drill. And by “active shooter drill,” we mean that a Winter Haven middle school went into lockdown as two armed police officers burst into classrooms, guns drawn, leaving the unsuspecting children terrified — and their parents furious.

According to Fox affiliate WTVT, officials at Jewett Middle Academy e-mailed parents to inform them of the drill, after it took place. By that point, WTVT reports, cellphones were already filling up with texts from frightened students, who thought there was a real shooter in the school.

In a later statement to The Post, spokesperson Jamie Brown for the Winter Haven police department said they were only aware of one student who texted a parent during the exercise.

“Unfortunately, no one gets an advanced notice of real life emergencies,” Polk County Public Schools spokesman Jason Gearey said in an e-mailed statement to The Washington Post. “We don’t want students to be scared, but we need them to be safe.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2014/11/14/i-thought-he-was-going-to-shoot-me-unsuspecting-middle-school-students-terrified-by-active-shooter-drill/

[BootinUp]

30. Holy Fright Night

What stupid ass thought that one up.

[YarnAddict]

39. The cops' grins

as they know they are scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids says a lot about them.

[YarnAddict]

29. Seriously?

If everyone took an "F You!" attitude toward the cops, they would not be able to enforce the laws. We outnumber them by a lot. If everyone did whatever they felt like, there would be no order, and none of us would be safe.

Frankly, most cops are assholes, in one way or another. Most of the rest of us understand that, and make the choice to have as little to do with them as possible, and that means that we don't challenge them, because when the rubber meets the road we CAN'T win. And that's probably a good thing.

[JEB]

33. Off we go meekly to the "showers".

[YarnAddict]

36. Do we all get to choose which laws to obey?

Could get a little dangerous, don't you think?

[JEB]

115. Yeah, get the fuck out of the street is now the law.

[YarnAddict]

119. Yeah, and "Get out of the street"

is one step from "To the showers."

[JEB]

122. Mike Brown is DEAD.

[NYC_SKP]

37. Not a "fuck you" attitude. More of a "do you have a warrant?" attitude.

Why don't we teach kids in public schools what their rights are?

It should be taught in schools.

[YarnAddict]

44. "Do you have a warrant

that tells me I need to get out of the street?"

A friend of mine used to say, "Which hill do you want to die on?" So, how about a thought process that goes, "I could ask the cop if he has a warrant to make me get out of the street, or, I could just decide this isn't the hill I want to die on, and get out of the street."

Which option makes more sense to you?

[Flatulo]

102. They don't need a warrant to order you out f the street.

Failure to obey an officer is an offense, at least around here. They can tell you to stand in one foot and recite the alphabet backwards, and if you don't comply, you'll be arrested.

[Socal31]

22. OK this is getting a little silly now.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

66. What was silly about the OP?

[Socal31]

79. Of all the race threads I see currently, this is the least worthy of consuming.

Most of them are making a point worth discussing. Others just seem to be a vehicle for posters to make their own racially charged statements.

No OP I wouldn't accuse someone I haven't noticed their posting history, which is why I said "silly". The "yessah massah" is a little over the top, although it does illustrate your point.

[olddots]

24. a cowardly turd maggot like Wilson needs people to fear him

The country needs peace officers not scared little bullies amped on racism and ignorance.

[raging_moderate]

25. I agree….

I have spoken to a number of different members of the town police, state troopers, and county sherrifs I work with. Every one of them agrees with me 100% when I say the following:

Whether or not Michael Brown was jaywalking, being loud and boisterous, perhaps even mouthing off (although I am not saying he was), if the best a cop can do is come out of that situation with a dead kid then that person has no business being in law enforcement. There is NO way anyone will ever convince me that a shooting was justified for no other reason than the possibility of talking someone down (who is unarmed) is always the best option and pretty much always works, too.

What has happened after the killing makes it all the more horrible. Racist apologists top to bottom.

[onecaliberal]

43. ^^^^ That

+ 1000

Can't believe all the Wilson defenders on DU. Racism is deep and ugly in this country. It's sickening.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

70. Yep, lots of em around here seems to me

[onecaliberal]

88. I agree with your observation.

I throw them in the dust bin. I have a hard time with the intolerance and hate.

[YarnAddict]

26. How about saying,

"Yes, Sir," and then complying? It's what I (a middle-aged white woman) would have said, and it's what I would hope my two white sons would say.

Cops rely on people's cooperation to enforce laws and maintain an orderly society. Yes, they have guns, because in some situations they need to be able to resort to deadly force in order to protect innocent lives including their own. But, there is an inherent expectation that people will respect the law, and respect those who enforce it. Sort of an unspoken compact between the people and the police.

If everyone could ignore police orders or requests at will, none of us would be safe.

If Michael Brown had complied with Wilson's order, the situation would not have escalated, and Michael would be alive today.

This is not victim-blaming, since there was clearly no reason for Wilson to have used his weapon. Just saying that there was a very simple way for Michael to have de-escalated the situation, instead of getting into a "whose is bigger" confrontation, with a cop who is probably a little, um--unbalanced.

[JEB]

31. It was Wilson that needed to get the fuck out of the street.

[MineralMan]

32. If he had complied...

Well, given the number of videos of police beating and kicking someone who is not moving, while screaming "Stop Resisting!" over and over again, I'm not sure that would have worked, either. As a middle-aged white woman in your case, or as an old white man in my case, I'm sure that taking your advice would lead to no bad consequences. As a young black man, though, I'm not entirely sure that would be the case. Should he have complied? Probably so, but he didn't. Should he have been shot for not complying. Certainly not. Backup was already on its way, after all.

Bottom line is that a young black man is dead - a young black man who did nothing that warranted being killed. Sorry, but I can't agree with your premise.

[KingCharlemagne]

53. You are indeed victim blaming and the worst sort, since you are ascribing words

to Mike Brown that actually belonged to his friend Dorian Johnson. The cop drove off leaving the two of them still walking in the middle of the street and thinking it was perfectly OK to do so. So exactly how was Mike Brown supposed to even suspect that there was a situtation that needed to be de-escalated, since to all outward appearances, the initial encounter between Wilson and the two had ended with a 'no harm, no foul' resolution.

[YarnAddict]

74. What words am I ascribing to Brown?????

If you mean the "Whose is bigger?" line, that's the way I characterize any pissing match, which is what it became when a cop gave an order, and Michael refused to comply.

If you don't think there was a pissing match going on, why do you think Wilson backed up, attempted to open the car door, etc?

[KingCharlemagne]

86. The only words exchanged between Wilson and either of the two men before Wilson reversed

his car were with Johnson. Mike Brown said nothing at all during the initial encounter. You say that the cop gave an order and "Michael refused to comply" but the cop had driven off after Johnson told him the two (Johnson and Brown) were almost at their destination and would be leaving the roadway shortly. There was little to comply with, since Wilson gave every appearance of being satisfied with Johnson's previous affirmation.

I do apologize for misreading your post as ascribing any words to either Johnson or Brown. Been doing this too much these past three months.

Honestly? i don't think either Johnson or Brown realized what was at stake until way after it was too late for either of them to de-escalate anything. Even though Wilson supposedly was the 'adult in the room,' by reversing his car so recklessly he escalated things so quickly that neither Johnson or Brown had much of a chance to de-escalate anything, even assuming they understood what was at stake and wanted to de-escalate.

[YarnAddict]

93. I didn't read the transcripts of the testimony

so I didn't know that Michael hadn't said anything.

I think I once read the number of SECONDS that this encounter took, and it is amazing to me that something could escalate from nothing to tragedy in that short amount of time.

All in all, an unbelievable tragedy. It makes you realize how fragile life really is . . .

[onecaliberal]

91. Your white sons are not subject to the same

Kind of harassment by law enforcement. To deny that is to deny reality. You don't have to have special conversations with them about how to behave with regard to police. Are you honestly saying your experience as a white women can be compared to what African Americans are forced to deal with. Just, wow.

[YarnAddict]

95. Of course I wasn't comparing!

I was saying that even I, with all the privilage conferred by my race, my age, etc., would choose not to provoke a cop!

When my sons were learning to drive, I told them that cops would look for opportunities to pull over a young male driver (of any race,) and told them the basics--keep their hands visible, address the cop as "sir," answer questions politely . . . I knew that they were not likely to end up in a situation that could end in tragedy, but still informed them as to the best course of action to ensure their safety, just in case.

I can imagine that if they were likely to be profiled because of their race, I would be doubly sure that they knew what to do, just in case.

[onecaliberal]

110. How do you know Michael wasn't given the same instruction?

And really it doesn't matter one bit. There was NO reason to kill him. If Wilson was so afraid all he had to do was stay in his car put it in drive and leave.
Your sons and you for that matter have no idea what it feels like to be harassed by law enforcement for years or to be oppressed by the entire system. Your experience and your decisions are informed by your experience as a white woman. As are mine. I don't pretend to know how it feels to be a black male in America. So I will refrain from judging the actions.

[MrMickeysMom]

94. You're entitled to answer as you please...

… Personally, I think you are naive in answering the way you have. Either that, or you are being dishonest.

"This is not victim-blaming"??? .. Is that a fact, now?

[daleanime]

105. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....

it probably is a duck.

[MrMickeysMom]

113. Well…. It didn't walk like it, nor talk like it...

… So, I guess that leaves poor cognitive recognition of an unfortunate duck.

[raging_moderate]

125. I don't think you get it….

you say "there is an inherent expectation that people will respect the law"

How about instead: There is an inherent expectation that our law enforcement officers respect (and know) the law? Militarized and angry police don't maintain an orderly society. They repress. They intimidate. They force people into being self-protective and untrusting because they have no other choice.

Ideally, our children (mine too) use such phrases as " yes, sir" and "thank you" out of respect and kindness….not as magic code words taught to say but not really mean. I have had the discussion with my children that the police are no longer your friends. You can not trust them. The law enforcement officers I know have had the same discussion with their own kids. Think about that for a moment, please.

[logosoco]

27. It is that simple. Even reading those ugly words gives me a chill.

I have speculated the same exact thing, but can't say those words, thinking about the people who had to say them. I can say "he did not obey, and that's why the cop shot him."

Unless one is actively breaking the law, or there is an emergency situation, I don't think not obeying a cop is a crime. Many will tell me this is not true, but the day we start saying we must "obey", this is no longer a free country in any sense.

[YarnAddict]

35. "Actively breaking the law"

Please define. It probably is breaking the law to walk down the middle of the road--minor offense, certainly, but at what point in a spectrum of lawbreaking ranging from "A Little" to "A Lot" does it become necessary for cops to enforce the law?

I don't have a problem with complying with a cop's orders, and that is what I would advise anyone to do.

[NYC_SKP]

41. A police office may detain you for probable cause, may issue a citation for jaywalking.

And it's perfectly legal to stand there and say "Fuck You Pig, Write Me Up." over and over again.

But if said cop becomes abusive and one fears for one's life, the situation changes to one in which you'll have to survive to testify and convince a jury that you feared for your life and fled.

Wilson knew this, and fired several shots including one or two into Brown's head.

[YarnAddict]

50. Or,

just do it.

Maybe it's because I am old and tired, but I have learned that there are things worth fighting about, and things that aren't. It's how I've survived marriage, parenthood, and a bunch of low-paying jobs with young supervisors flexing their boss muscles. There are times when it is worthwhile to challenge authority, but seriously--getting out of the street just because a cop tells you to, isn't one of them.

[NYC_SKP]

54. No doubt.

We'll never know if Brown said anything provocative at all, and I'm not suggesting that it's ever a good idea to provoke a cop.

But it's essential to know one's rights and schools don't teach that shit.

I don't know what they're teaching in St. Louis but in all my professional experience in education, I haven't found a teacher or school explicitly teaching our actual rights.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

71. If you are white you are describing the luxury of knowing your white skin will likely protect you

if you do this or that, what we are being told by people who are not white is it is not so simple for them.

[YarnAddict]

80. I will acknowledge my privilege

But, if you think MB was destined to die from the moment Wilson first laid eyes on him, how can you explain the literally thousands of POC that Wilson didn't kill in the six years he had been a cop? Surely, something was different this one time . . .

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

81. This time he may have run into someone unwilling to take his racist shit...

Or, maybe MB did nothing to provoke the cop.

What I know is I am tired of seeing posts on an alleged liberal message board of people who are finding all kinds of reasons to blame the victim.

[logosoco]

89. If I could define breaking the law, the world would look a lot different!

In suburban St. Louis, jaywalking is not exactly an offense. 99.9% of the time, in that area, it is not even on a cops register. Maybe there are some communities where stopping jaywalkers is a thing, but not here. (Based on personal experience and what I have seen).
Obviously crimes such as robbery or assault need to be checked out, but how often does a cop just "assume" someone is actually doing that. The young man shot in the Shaw neighborhood was not robbing anyone, the cop just assumed he was.
Perhaps the police need to change their approach and assumptions. And maybe a lot of people need to change what they call the police for. We live in a world where someone called the cops on someone walking down the street with their hands in their pockets!
Complying with cops orders sounds like the right thing to do, but one does need to see that they are over reaching in many (too many) cases. I guess it depends on who you are and what community you are in.

[Schema Thing]

38. hmmm, maybe. Maybe not. There is, you know, a continuum between

...full-on bring-back-slavery racism and fully evolved zero-bigotry attitudes.


Just as there is a continuum between a cop who would always be aggressive and overly authoritarian with a brown skinned citizen and a cop who would never be overly authoritarian with any citizen. And somewhere towards the bad end of that continuum, imo, is a cop who will often be aggressive and overly authoritarian with citizens of any race.

I have no way of knowing where Darren Wilson falls on that continuum (with the info that exist in the public sphere), I just know that he shot a guy who he didn't have to shoot - and he should be sanctioned severely for that.

[MineralMan]

46. It's likely that he will not face any official sanctions at all.

He resigned from that department and probably will have to move somewhere else. But that's a social sanction, not an official one. And that's the problem, really. No sanctions means giving a green light for others to do similar things in similar situations. And they will. There are many cases of police over-reaction and brutality, especially with people of color. They're a commonplace, and very rarely are there official sanctions applied. From time to time someone files suit and ends up settling out of court, with the taxpayers footing the bill for the awarded damages. But it's quite rare for these situations to result in any criminal penalty for the officers involved. Not unheard of, but very rare.

I follow such cases here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, and have seen how often they occur. It's not pleasant to consider, frankly. It's a shame on law enforcement, each and every time, and yet nothing seems to change.

[Schema Thing]

57. I'm hoping the DOJ can/will do something

but I don't know the available recourse so I'm not holding my breath. Probably wouldnt' be holdning my breath even if I did know the available recourse.

[MineralMan]

65. The DOJ might file a civil rights violation case, I suppose.

But I doubt it will happen. There's likely to be a civil suit, too, but that will probably end with a settlement and a clause that prevents revealing the amount of the settlement. That's usual in these cases.

In the end, the cop will face little more than inconvenience from this. He won't have to pay the settlement. The city will have to pay, since he was acting on the city's behalf. These cases happen so often that there's almost a set process that occurs.

[Schema Thing]

69. Well I do think the city is responsible to a large degree

they hire and train and set or allow the police culture.

[MineralMan]

73. Yes. I do, too.

[Gothmog]

109. The DOJ will likely force the Ferguson police department to make significant changes

There are two separate and distinct actions under consideration by the DOJ. Here is AG Holder

I think that the DOJ will either withhold grants or bring a civil lawsuit against the City of Ferguson and the Ferguson police department to force some significant changes in that police force. It is far less likely that the DOJ will bring criminal civil rights charges against Wilson due to the need to prove that Wilson's actions were based on an intent to violate Michael Brown's civil rights.

A lawsuit by the Brown family against Wilson and the City is a given in my opinion. The fact that Wilson has a net worth now means that the family can be even more aggressive with the insurance carrier. Wilson can be called to testify and in Texas it is a kiss of death for a defendant to take the 5th in a civil case

[grahamhgreen]

55. ...fast enough.

[MineralMan]

100. That too.

[damnedifIknow]

56. Only in a idiocracy type society

Let's see, a cop murders a man and then people start blaming the people that protest this. Makes perfect sense to me.

[WinkyDink]

59. As I posted elsewhere: Another armed male killing an unarmed younger and Black male for WALKING IN

A PLACE THE ARMED MALE THOUGHT HE OUGHT NOT BE.

Get off the grounds----where your father's friend lives.

Get out of the street----where joggers and dog-walkers have freedom.

And in this and the Trayvon case, both ALIVE AND WELL ARMED MALES attempted to pose as the INTIMIDATED and BEATEN-UP "REAL" VICTIMS.

Crock o'.....

[DemandsRedPill]

60. There may also be a valid yet less obvious reason for his untimely death

The odds of Wilson being a racist are good

The odds of Brown being targeted in more ways than one simply because he is black?

Equally good

But why is there not more discussion of the more obvious yet less challenged fact that Ferguson has a police force that is dominated by white men yet the predominance of those under their dictates are black

Could Michael Brown now be healthy and productive had he or some of his friends opted to challenge the status quo and demand that their elected 'overseers' more reflect the nature of the majority demographics?

Perhaps be the change he wanted to see?

It's too late now.

Just asking

[WinkyDink]

63. There are many questions to be part of larger conversations, but the immediate one is: WHY no trial?

[MineralMan]

68. There are many factors at play here,

including the ones you mentioned.

[jtuck004]

146. "But why is there not more discussion" < Try reading a little history and psychology, answer your

own question.

"I saved a thousand slaves. I could have saved a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves".
Harriet Tubman

People who are oppressed normally don't get rid of their own chains - they do not have the concepts of freedom that are built into the privileged culture, in our case white. It takes someone from the outside to break things up.

It's ironic, how very easy it is to sit on a high horse of self-righteousness and ask questions like that if you are one of the privileged, and all the while the privileged person has not a clue that they have a built in entitlement, a conceptual framework that allows them to think they should challenge the status quo, a right.

What white folk have taught black folk is to keep their head down, and that most white people will just watch them hang.

Go read some Malcom X - while his speeches sounds scary from a white perspective, it is exactly what is needed to help an oppressed people understand how they have been molded into being who they are.

Knowing that, it would be more a surprise that they have such a discussion than not.

Interesting that one feels free to suggest that the solution to a few hundred years of oppression would have been Brown acting differently, from this site which operates in this country atop the bones of millions of native people, which the white culture has never righted. If they can't bring themselves to do that, they have no business telling ANYONE else how to act.

Maybe the racists, or the suit-and-tie-wearing-non-racists of today should be asking themselves why they continue in their behavior instead?

[DemandsRedPill]

147. Hmmm

Noblesse Oblige

It's worked great so far.

Perhaps you have some reading to do also before finding excuses

[jtuck004]

148. No thanks. I have no need of using racist excuses to castigate people. Your mileage may vary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respectability_politics.

And, http://www.thenation.com/blog/176183/respectability-politics-wont-save-us-death-jonathan-ferrell#

That post is a glaring example of this and such practices stink, even with the snarky sarcasm thingy.

What would make things better would for folk and the people Malcom X would have called "house negroes" (hint - they don't have to have black skin) to quit finding new ways to make racism respectable, as your post seeks to do. Unfortunately those who practice this are usually so very clueless as to how they are hurting others.

You won't be writing anything else I am going to read. Bye.

[Joe Turner]

62. Let's see "Racist Cop" "Bigoted Cop" "White Cop"

You are exactly the kind of person lawyers on either side of a case immediately dismiss as qualified to serve on a jury. To form an unbiased opinion one must have an objective view of the facts and an ability to follow the facts to their logical conclusion without prejudice. Sorry, You don't have it. Saying "It's your Preconceived Notions" is much more accurate than saying "It's Your Opinion".

[WinkyDink]

64. Have you noticed this is NOT A JURY and we are NOT JURORS. Gee, the ignorant GRAND JURY precluded

that, now DIDN'T THEY?

So we can form whateverthehell opinions we want, Perry Mason.

[MineralMan]

72. Look. I wouldn't be called to any jury, anyhow.

Last edited Sun Nov 30, 2014, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I live in Minnesota, not Missouri. But there will be no trial in any case. You have read my opinion. It is just that, and you're welcome to disregard it at your pleasure. I'm not required to have an objective view, although I believe my view is pretty clear and objective. You might have a different opinion, Joe Turner.

[Joe Turner]

83. "I believe my view is pretty clear and objective"

Clear yes, objective no. How could it? If your are right it is by default only where Wilson is exactly as you portray him. But we don't know that now do we? And yes I like the blues.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

76. Agreed, Mineral Man has eyes and ears and a brain, he therefore can see, hear and witness

racism in this case as well as others, he knows it when he sees it so you are right, getting him on a jury would be tough

[Joe Turner]

85. Evidently he can read peoples' mind too

You may like the idea of a Kangaroo court where a person is guilty until proven innocent and evidence carries little weight but most folks don't.

[Iggo]

134. Yes, Yes, and, well, Yes.

[Gothmog]

67. Good thread

Michael Brown is dead because he offended this racist police officer

[MineralMan]

75. Thanks.

[Bettie]

82. Yes indeed

and with the proper head down, subservient position, in order to make sure that 'boss' there doesn't feel threatened.

[ariesgem]

84. So true..

As a black man, my boyfriend has ZERO TOLERANCE for the LAPD. They come thru neighborhoods like they're the overseers black folks. They talk to us with no respect and operate like a gang.

On Friday, we're coming out his son's high school football game and doing playful verbal jabs with some parents of the opposing team that lost who happens to be friends of ours. The LAPD was in the parking lot and one of the officers who kept staring at us approached us all puffed up and said "get the f**k in your cars, NOW". My boyfriend will not take sh*t from them. He told the officer "YOU get the f**k in YOUR car! Who you think you're talking to?? I'm not your damn child and if I was, I still wouldn't let you talk me like that! You better come to me like I'm a man motherf**ka!" He completely lost it.

The officer then said "Are you talking back to a police officer?" My BF replied, "HELL YEAH and??" One of the sergeants quickly up came up and pulled the officer back to deescalate the incident. By then, folks around us was pulling out their cameras.

This is LAPD's everyday norm with black folks in our neighborhood. Stop & frisks , arrests for minor infractions, making you get out and sit on the curb for minor traffic stops, treating victims like perps is how they roll. When they come around I never miss an opportunity to check out the expressions on their faces. Most of them have a "I just got demoted' or 'I'm hunting for a kill' demeanor.

I loath them.

[On the Road]

96. For Some Reason,

I have no difficulty distinguishing between saying "Yassah, Massa" and NOT assaulting an officer. I really don't understand what makes that difficult.

[samsingh]

97. i believe you are right

[simak]

101. As a white guy, I can't see where I would expect it to come out any differently for me.

Except for the part where I personally wouldn't have roughed up the clerk, stolen the cigars, back talked to the cop, resisted him, reached for his weapon, fled, or charged him.

But I don't really credit these differences to my whiteness.

[MineralMan]

103. I see.

OK, then.

[NutmegYankee]

106. The penalty for "contempt of Cop" has long been injury or death.

Wrong to the core, but abuse of authority is far too common these days. The mistake is we don't punish people for abuse of authority.

[Hekate]

107. It's enough to make some of us old Liberals kind of bitter. I thought we'd outgrown this s*t...

...and instead we're being pulled back into the tar pits of our worst history.

[Nye Bevan]

114. It's always a good idea to comply with a cop's instructions, regardless of your race.

This is especially true if you have recently committed a robbery and suspect that the police might be on the lookout for you with a view to taking you into custody.

I don't think it would be a good idea to say "Yassuh, Massa", however. The cop would probably think you are being sarcastic and might react negatively to this.

[MadDAsHell]

116. I missed the evidence for "racism" and "bigotry."

Is the entire evidence for that that the 2 individuals were of different races? If so, sounds open and shut

Shitty cop? For sure. But what part of the presented evidence showed bigotry, or any history of bigotry? I understand you really want that to be the case, but where's the evidence?

[libodem]

121. Yowsssa

Yowsssa. Yowsssa.


Oh fuck that noise! Its the truth but it makes me want to leap and thrash around the room like I'm having a seizure. I tend to internalize all my anger especially with I'm helpless to impact the outcome. I just feel like I'm going to blow a circuit.

Trying to calm down.

[still_one]

126. Nope, I think it is because he confronted a racist cop

[BootinUp]

127. Chris Rock, is that you?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

129. Kicked and recommended.

Who'd have thought?
Good post, MineralMan.

[Iggo]

130. That's the fact, Jack.

[LostInAnomie]

131. Uhhh... didn't he punch the cop in the face?

Then, didn't he try to escape, and possibly then charge the cop? That doesn't really equate to not saying "Yassuh, Massa".

What evidence do you have that Wilson is a racist?

[BlueCaliDem]

132. Yep. And that "Yessuh, Massa" better be sincere and not seen as being sarcastic

because you'd otherwise still get shot for "giving lip" or as the cops will frame it for public consumption, "disobeying a police officer"; that disobedience being not bending one's head in deep humility.

I've rarely dealt with cops, but those I have dealt with were kind and respectful although somewhat wired. Two L.A. detectives had come to my home when rumor had it that my son (half Asian, half White, but he looks White) was going to shoot up the school on graduation day. That rumor was started by one of his idiot friends because my son really is a gentle giant. Anyway, those two detectives and the police officer of the school came to my home after I'd just gotten back from taking my two children to the dentist. I was shocked to see a black and white and unmarked car parked in front of our house. Long story short, I voluntarily offered them to check his bedroom because we don't have any firearms. None. Of course they found nothing, but they were very respectful although I found the Latino officer a bit too high-strung for my taste.

[spanone]

133. k&r...

[True Earthling]

135. So that justified Michael Brown to escalate it to another level?

Mike Brown slammed the SUV door shut on DW and then attacked him and tried to take his gun... because he told him to "get the fuck on the sidewalK"... you're condoning that?

[doc03]

136. That's your opionion. You lost the argument when the demenstrations

turned into burning down the neighborhood and looting stores. That is where the Occupy movement died when it went
to destruction and violence.

[BootinUp]

139. I don't remember a Presidents special meeting on Occupy...hmmm

[doc03]

140. All the president is going to do is drive his polls down even

more, I do not know 1 Democrat that backs Brown. Yes there are here on a ultra liberal web site but in real life I haven't heard one
person in favor of Brown.

[BootinUp]

141. I don't remember football players holding 99% banners either. nt

[doc03]

142. I couldn't care less about the opinion of

a few football players. Charles Barkley didn't follow the Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson meme and
he is now a Uncle Tom. Aren't blacks allowed to have an opposing opinion? It is an absolute disgrace
how the commentators on MSNBC have inflamed this case. I thought Fox was bad with the Bundy ranch stuff, this is worse.

[BootinUp]

143. Yes, they are, we all are

There is some big shit going down, but can it really get any worse?

[bluesbassman]

145. So in your world, a "suspect" is open game for ugly beast ferocious racist robocops?

See, in my world, a "suspect" deserves his day in court to face the allegations against him. Ex-LEO Wilson made sure that will never happen for Michael Brown. Happy now?