One thing I can't get past when it comes to Elizabeth Warren

[Cali_Democrat]

How is it possible that someone can be a Republican well into their 40's? She voted for Reagan even as he made clear he would do his best to begin the long term process of dismantling progressive legislation from the New Deal era.

Reagan was also the ultimate race baiter. He gave a racist dog whistling speech in Philadelphia Mississippi which launched his presidential campaign. The same place where 3 civil rights workers were murdered because they wanted blacks to vote. Reagan constantly railed against "welfare queens". His goal was to convince white Americans that blacks are lazy welfare moochers who are taking white people's money. The Southern strategy was his main tactic.

He also had tremendous disdain for the LGBT community and he even chose to ignore the AIDS epidemic. He even made jokes about it as people were dying.

How can Warren or anybody vote Republican even when all those things were crystal fucking clear?

Today she was praising the New Deal, yet she voted for people who desperately wanted to dismantle it.

Color me unimpressed by her. Does this mean I'm supporting Hillary?

Nope.

I'll be looking at a candidate other than those two.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I understand your feelings here. I don't get how she could think like that either.

You might want to change the word passed in your thread title. It should be past.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Oops! Haha

Thanks for understanding

[unblock]

2. you don't think reagan was a real republican? once he was an ardent democrat and a union leader

people change, or they realize things later in life.

my guess is that warren believed some of the academic myths about capitalism and economic justice, and only came to her present positions after studying the facts and realizing that good government regulation is very necessary in the present environment.

[B Calm]

3. I like her message for the working class, but if Bernie runs I will give

him all my support!

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. but do you vote for whoever wins the Primary?

[B Calm]

11. Yes

Hillary is not my first or even second choice, but if she turns out to be my only choice I will vote for her.

Is that what you need to know?

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. Yes it is.....

Thank you...

[Union Scribe]

85. Congrats, you're VanillaRhapsody approved! nt

[TheNutcracker]

81. I'm supporting Bernie too....

The only registered democrat at this time who's another alternative is Martin O'Malley. But Bernie comes first.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. Why? Because some on DU will berate you for it?

I am not afraid of Left Leaning Libertarians....

Hillary Clinton...

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)

No opinion on topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(0 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 8:
No 'rights' to clean air and water
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(-3 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 14:
Maintain US sovereignty from UN
(-3 points on Economic scale)

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the military
(0 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 16:
More enforcement of the right to vote
(+5 points on Social scale)

Favors topic 17:
Stay out of Iran
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 19:
Never legalize marijuana
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)

is obviously ^^^ a Progressive...no matter what Left-Leaning Independents say....

[irisblue]

6. VR

where is that from ? thx

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. I culled it from here...

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. But none of that matters ...

she is a 3rd-Way Corporatist that loves wall-street and wars ... DU told me!

[Logical]

86. LOL nt

[JI7]

9. i think she just needs to explain it, i don't question her current positions though

but the fact that she has not explained it is one reason i don't think she has plans for higher office.

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. Explain what?

[nichomachus]

10. Probably the same way

That a supposed Democrat could serve on the board of WalMart.

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. OMG.....this is ALL you got?

Do you know that Walmart once had a Buy American plan? That ended when Sam died...which is also about the time Hillary left....

[Thinkingabout]

19. She also pushed for promoting women while on the board.

Some indicate if one ever talks to a corporation then they are marked for life, quiet the opposite, new fresh ideas, probably give input on being making a better workplace for the employees. There is a need to discuss ideas and you can't do this while refusing to sit down and listen to each other.

[nichomachus]

57. Oh no no no no. There's much much more. n/t

[Thinkingabout]

15. And why would it not be proper to serve on Walmart board orvany other board.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Especially ...

the board of the largest employer in the state your spouse is Governor of?

[Thinkingabout]

64. Nit familiar with who gets on board of directors, eh.

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. Huh? n/t

[Thinkingabout]

69. Have you studied board of director members? Interesting information.

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. Say what you are trying to say ...

Thank you.

[Thinkingabout]

72. I am saying it is interesting to read information on members of board of directors, you will find

Which companies they work, etc. Often times some serves on several boards. Hillary worked as a corporate attorney, good experience when trying to get some regulations reformed on corporations.

[nichomachus]

56. Because they're a scumbag company that hurts workers and the communities they operate in?

[Thinkingabout]

67. What does it have to do with someone serving on a Board of Directors?

In the case of when Hillary was serving on Walmarts board she was promoting women getting promotions and increase in wages. This is exactly the type of person workers would like to see on boards. She promoted "Buy America" while she was there also. American made by Americans, more work for the American worker. Putting Democrats on boards promoting Democrat issues, it is a good thing.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. Which "supposed Democrat" served on the Board of Walmart?

ETA: Oh ... you're talking about HRC's term while her husband was the Governor of Walmart's home state and Sam was still running things. BTW ... walmart wasn't always considered the big evil.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

16. I have nothing against Senator Warren and I fully understand that one's opinion may evolve over time

But with that being said, the amount of fanboydom/fangirldom over her by some here is humorous.

Again, that's less an observation against her and more about people who have trotted her out as the next Great Liberal Hope.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

42. Some of us also were fanboys/girls of Obama and he was all about Hope. And Change. Oh yea, and...

...he became president for eight years in two landslide victories.

[One_Life_To_Give]

17. Not everyone follows politicians that closely

There were quite a few Reagan Democrats, people liked what they heard. 20/20 hindsight is a great thing. In 1980 most people had never heard of Aid's much less had any clue about a candidates position on the subject. I don't recall it becoming an issue until into his second term.

[Thinkingabout]

22. Aids began around 1979 or recognized in the US. Reagan was elected in 1980.

Aids was nit met with open hands. Reagan also cut funds to research Alzheimers.

[One_Life_To_Give]

33. 1st recognized US Aids case April 1980

And for the mass population in the US it was still years before they ever heard the term or knew much about it. How it was transmitted wasn't understood and the virus wasn't isolated till 83. Unless you knew someone in the LGBT community it was not something a person was going to hear or know much about.

[Thinkingabout]

36. Guess I was paying attention, really did not have to have a close relationship

With the LGBT but was aware.

[tblue37]

73. Thinkingabout--you might want to check your posts. In 2 you have "nit" when you mean "not."

It's an easy typo to make.

[Thinkingabout]

74. Typo

[Agnosticsherbet]

18. I think her economic message re banks and finace is spot on.

She is neither the most liberal (left) or most conservative (right) in the Democratic caucus. She voted with the party 96% of the time.

Her economic message has resonated with the left, and she has, until now, refused to use her star status to aim at the top spot. Her appeal to progressives and the liberal left has netted her a place in the leadership. Lets see what she does with it.

I lived through the 80's, and Reagan was a lot closer to how the public felt about the LGBT community than most people today like to think. That is one of the issues that has changed remarkably for the better.

As controversial as Don't Ask Don't Tell was in 2008, when Clinton initiated a very heavy majority of Americans were against gays in the military. It remained the policy for way to long.

If the millennial's have done one good thing, thy have championed the LGBT cause and pushed America into changing. If they would now vote regularly, I would have no complaints with their Demographic group.

[kentuck]

20. Well. I used to be a Democrat...

Now I'm a Democratic Socialist.

[Cha]

21. It's easy for me to see because I know how people can change their views. Depends on where their

journey takes them and how smart they are. And, how Lucky they are!

Looking back at some of the stupid stuff I've done.. I have to say.. What was I thinking?!

[bigwillq]

23. This is a good post.

I think most of us have evolved in one area or another that leads us to think, believe and act how we currently do.

[Cha]

25. Mahalo bigwill.. I added "How Lucky we are", too.. in some repects.

[calimary]

29. Yes it is. People change. As they grow or age, they start thinking differently.

Anyone who has emerged from the reagan drug haze and hangover, and dried out, and now sees the light - should be APPLAUDED. And ENCOURAGED.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. I absolutely agree with you.

People change, and do so dramatically. It took Vietnam & the peace movement to wake me up, and I have seen others--including good-hearted, intelligent, educated university instructors have the light dawn when they are 50.

[frazzled]

30. Sure people change their views ...

But to hold a general philosophical political association well into middle age invites questioning.

We've accepted many politicians' evolving on specific issues: say, Al Gore on abortion rights, Senator Byrd's rejection of his racist past. But two things obtain in these kinds of evolutions: (1) these were people deeply involved in government and public service for many years, whose views on these particular issues came as a result of both philosophical and electoral changes; and (2) these were people who despite holding some formerly aberrant views, remained supportive of the agenda of the Democratic Party.

Neither of those things apply to Sen. Warren: she has no lifelong involvement in public service or government (having come to it only in 2008 when Harry Reid appointed her chairperson of a congressional oversight panel regarding bailouts, etc.). And she does not have a career-long commitment to Democratic Party politics (she was a Republican).

So while she may have finally changed her general orientation, I have to question her judgment. To have stayed with the Republican Party all that time is unsettling. Not just one position that was out of sync, but throwing her support (however individual) to a party that had some pretty negative positions. Her explanation is that she thought the Rs "supported the marketplace" better. Did she not give a hoot about anything other than the marketplace? She lived through the civil rights movement, Vietnam, Iran-Contra, and all the rest, and all that mattered were markets? That's poor judgment to me.

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. I hear what you are writing; but, ...

completely disagree.

In the case of political orientation, I tend to believe that people are who they say they are, especially when they are doing more than talking.

I am not cynical to the point that people would invest the time, energy and resources just to pull a political scheme.

[kelly1mm]

24. Probably the same way Hillary Clinton wasa Goldwater Girl and Ronald Regan was a

Democratic union boss/supporter.

People change.

[Thinkingabout]

46. Did Hillary ever vote for Goldwater?

[kelly1mm]

54. No. She worked for his campaign while in high school (and for other Republicans later). For more

info see:

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/hillary-worked-for-goldwater/

[Thinkingabout]

55. Yep while she was in high school, and her first vote was in 1968 and she was supporting a Democrat

Candidate and has remained a Democrat since 1968.

[kelly1mm]

58. Right, just like I said, she was a self-described Goldwater Girl. Then she changed. Reagan/Warren

changed later in life but they also changed.

Is it really so hard to believe that many people change their political affiliation over time?

You also know that changing one's political affiliation is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, right?

[Thinkingabout]

61. When I see post where Hillary was a Goldwater girl in high school I question whether some thinks

It is a bad thing. I wonder how long it took Warren to realize Reagan Trickle Down economics was bad?

[dsc]

63. actually it is very different

Hillary was raised a Republican, it is very common for kids to vote, or in her case work for, candidates that their parents support. Warren was at one of the most liberal universities in the country and despite that, and at age 30 plus, voted for the GOP. Frankly I would like to know what her explanation for her behavior is.

[polichick]

26. I don't get it either, would love to hear her explanation...

Still, EW is talking about things that matter - but we all know that politicians can talk a good game, so imo the verdict is still out.

[Lint Head]

27. I have become cynical regarding any modern politician.

They do nothing today but game the system for their own self serving reasons. They say anything to a crowd because they look at people today as nothing more than a following to exploit. Their stated beliefs are hollow shells and a ruse to gain fame and power. It doesn't matter if they appear liberal or conservative.

[Starry Messenger]

34. Didn't President Obama evolve on marriage equality? People change.

My parents both voted for Reagan. My mom is a Dem now, who listens to economic populist ideas. (She also likes Hillary.)

Most people in the US don't obsess the way we do over these people. Your average voter can't remember what Senator so-and-so did last year, let alone 30 years ago. Otherwise they would have voted these present fuckers out for shutting down the government last year.

[JI7]

40. not really, he supported same sex marriage and for political reasons changed his position

when running for President. and then finally switched back to his original support.

[Starry Messenger]

44. That seems worse somehow.

[polichick]

49. True - it's calculated lying.

[JI7]

50. he is a politician and wanted to win, i would say it might have been worse if

he actually supported anti gay legislation and had not supported gay rights as he did do as president.

[RiverLover]

75. Same with my parents. They vote Dem now, for all the good it does.

So far, the only thing that I've seen that's bad (to me) about EW is she voted against GMO labeling. I wouldn't mind knowing why she made that decision.

[tymorial]

35. Let's examine the premise behind your analysis

Let me take your comment and put it into historical perspective. If supporting Warren is wrong because she once supported and voted for Reagan then no one should have supported Carter for president. Carter supported democrats who were Jim Crow supporting, state rights loving, segregation demanding _racists_. Let's look at the difference in time between Warren supporting Reagan and Carter supporting southern racist democrats. Warren - Regan - 30 years. Carter - Racists - between 15 and 20. Nixon should have won in 1960 because Kennedy was a democrat and supported a party that was defending Jim Crow.

Don't get me wrong, I am _NOT_ defending the republican party. I do however find your analysis to be rather odd. People CAN change. Haven't democrats been telling manipulating puke republicans this whenever Senator Byrd's KKK history was mentioned? Were you a Ted Kennedy fan? I won't go there but you get my point.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. What gets my ire is that she brushes off and avoids the questions by claiming all she cared about

was their superior ideas about 'the markets'. But not about choice or AIDS or all that racist shit Reagan was always saying? And of course those ideas about 'the markets' were horrible mistakes, not good choices she was making although they were for her, she got really rich during all that.
I'm younger than Warren and I was already a decided Democrat and strong opponent of Reagan, Bush and all that they stood for. If she has really changed on social issues, she could, would and should speak about it clearly, for hers would be a great story of reasoned progress from a conservative mindset to a more informed and liberal way of thinking.
The fact that she just says 'the markets' when asked how she could have been a right wing, long term member of a racist, homophobic anti choice Party is what rankles me. When the question is 'why were you an anti choice Republican in a bigoted Party?' I don't think 'I did it for money' is all that great an answer. But that's her answer. She needs a better and more specific answer to get my respect.
I wonder how many people here would, in a few years, vote for someone who voted for McCain/Palin in 2008 at age 42? How many years would it take? Also voted for W. Twice. What would such a person have to say to you to get you to want them as President? 'Yes I voted for W and Palin because I liked their ideas about the markets'?

[polichick]

43. And those "superior ideas about the markets" is how we got into the mess she talks about so much.

[Bluenorthwest]

76. And she does not acknowledge that she was a proponent of those ideas when she criticizes them now

She acts as if she's always been right when she's always been wrong and on the right. It's the furtive treatment she gives to her past that pisses me off. If she told some great narrative of rejecting those policies one by one, specific and personal and using her own life story to educate others that would be one thing. But instead she refuses to address the elephant in the room.

[DuckBurp]

39. Like EW, I am a recovering Republican.

I converted while in my 30's, so I can understand her conversion. I was raised a staunch Republican in Texas. It was Ronald Reagan who showed me the error of my ways. I came to realize that if he is a Republican, then I could not be one. As I recall, EW was raised in Oklahoma as a Republican. When you are raised in a Republican household, under the strong influence of your parents, sometimes it takes a while to really do your own thinking. The important thing is what her positions are now.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. How old was Reagan when he became a Republican?

How is it possible that he supported the New Deal policies for so long, that he later came to oppose and started the process of dismantling?

Different side of the same coin. People change.

[NightWatcher]

45. I've been a democrat since high school when I became politically aware

So no, I don't understand someone who converted well into their 40's.

[TheCowsCameHome]

48. It's never too late to grow up,

plus wisdom comes with age.

[Nye Bevan]

51. Plenty of DUers forgave Robert Byrd for serving in the KKK as an Exalted Cyclops.

It should be easier to forgive a former Reagan supporter than a former Klan officer.

[noiretextatique]

66. and, didn't some democrats become Reagan Democrats?

i never had the luxury of drinking that koolaid, but some did.

[wyldwolf]

52. but... but ... Hillary bad. Hillary BAD!!!

I've been telling people on DU for some time now Warren won't be immune from this.

[djean111]

53. I understand completely - I cannot get past Hillary's TPP -she helped write it and cheerleads for it

Happening now, not years ago.

[sadoldgirl]

59. Yes, and I remember from school

that Martin Luther was not only a staunch catholic but a monk.

Wow, his changed mind is still lived today.

[eridani]

60. Not concerned about her Republican past, nor Clinton's for that matter

I care about what they are advocating now.

[delrem]

62. I like what she's doing now!

I like what she's DOING now!
I like what she's doing NOW!
I like that what she's SAYING NOW matches what she's DOING NOW!

That's the best that I can ever hope for from politics, from a politician.
She isn't a weasel. She isn't owned. She scares the crap out of Republicans, and the Third Way apparatchiks.

She sets a good example of political courage and for that alone I applaud her no end. The Democratic Party needs more like Elizabeth Warren, not less.

It says something that the anti-Warren smear machine has to go back to the '90's and to pretend that she hasn't clearly and unambiguously repudiated the GOP.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. I'd love it if she clearly and unambiguously repudiated much specific policy she supported.

She should be doing that as part of her narrative. All I hear her talk about is money. It's great if she's changed, but that needs to be communicated. I lived through those times. I simply will not vote for a Republican from that time without hearing the entire story. Never going to happen. This was about life and death. I don't expect it to be important to straight white people. But they'd best not expect others to feel the same way.

[delrem]

90. I too would love to hear more.

But then again, it isn't like she's running for president.
If she were, she'd be forced to give a more well rounded accounting of her positions.
Well, a *somewhat* more well rounded accounting, given the incredibly restricted parameters for political debate allowed in the USA.

Her support for Israel during the recent slaughter in Gaza was quite off-putting for me. But then, she's a US politician and there seems to be 100% across the board bipartisan support for everything Israel in US politics, to the exclusion of even a basic recognition of the humanity of the Palestinians, so I didn't expect much else (even reading DU on the topic makes me queasy, the overt anti-arabic anti-muslim racism that passes as "OK&quot . My expectations aren't the same as my hopes and wishes...
In fact I don't see *any* Dem calling for a rational rollback and ending of the endless slaughter of (and technological ramping up of) the US WoT, and that too is an across the board 100% bipartisan movement. I'm frightened for the future, given the US's incredible military power and ability to do what it wants, when it wants, with total impunity. Absolute power corrupts absolutely... Awful as it is, I don't expect much, or *anything* of a change for the better in US foreign/military policy in my lifetime. I think US military culture is way too far gone for that and it'll have to play out to the end. Elizabeth Warren seems to avoid the subject.

It appears to me from my reading of DU that all (or "99%&quot of DUers are more or less on the same page wrt LGBT and racial and sexist and religionist issues, at least as distinct from the extremes of the Republicans and to the extent that few if any dare to be openly bigoted. But then, I *am* a straight white Canadian who grew up in an incredibly racist culture/environment, and didn't even know the 1/10 of what I was and am part of until I was ... what? ... 40 or so I started to catch on? At least I'm somewhat aware of my ignorance and I do small bits to upgrade my understanding. e.g. after reading

http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/26889-theodore-roosevelt-walt-whitman-and-andrew-jackson-were-proponents-of-native-american-genocide

I ordered the book. Unfortunately, I ordered it from the truth-out site Oct. 22, a month ago, and have yet to receive it. I'm looking forward to reading it. In the meantime I've begun reading Edward Said, _Orientalism_, so I can get a better/bigger perspective on ME issues.

OK, so maybe my response to you is lame. I like her forceful message, I like that she seems capable of getting good things done (albeit yes, just in her focus category of economics), even given the incredible push back of concentrated wealth and its hirelings.

[noiretextatique]

65. wasn't HRC a republican too? eom

[Bluenorthwest]

77. Her parents were. So she is dubbed 'Goldwater Girl' because she worked on that campaign as a teen

with her parents. She is often called that by supporters of Warren, who was a full grown, full blown Republican until she was in her 40's. The double standard being employed is fairly extreme.

[noiretextatique]

79. so, the short answer is yes

thanks.

[noiretextatique]

82. so, i take that as a yes

HRC was also a republican, though perhaps her republicanism can be justified as a familial or a "youthful" thing. I really have no problem with that. Lots of people here were once republicans, including warren.

[tblue37]

71. People sometimes simply experience epiphanies. Even intelligent,

well-meaning people might take a while to shake off the effects of conditioning they have experienced all their lives. Most people never do, despite being smacked repeatedly in the face by reality.

I am just glad that she did finally wake up and that she has become a voice for the people against the banks and oligarchs.

[napi21]

78. Carter lost because of the failed hostage rescue, and MOST people were

very upset by that. Then there was Mondale. IF I remember right he told everyone he was going to raise their taxes. "The Republicans will raise your taxes but won't tell you that, I WILL!" I'm sure not going to hold a vote someone made 30+ years ago against them. Plus, Carter was mostly gloom & doom, while Reagan was all shipper, smiles, and optimistic on the future. The American people really don't want to hear the truth if it's bad.

[Autumn]

83. Greatest Democrat I ever had the pleasure to meet, Senater Robert Byrd.

You should learn about his history. Color me unimpressed by your silly OP.

[Beausoir]

84. She is inconsequential. She will never be President. Not electable.

[Union Scribe]

87. Yet important enough for the OP and plenty of others

to constantly attack her. You know how someone is actually inconsequential? No one talks about them.

[jillan]

88. It would bother me if she went the other way. People change. The politics have changed as well.

Being a republican never used to mean being an asshole.... but now it does

[LawDeeDah]

89. I've changed my mind on many, many things over the years.

I was exposed to a lot of bigotry and all that rot when growing up. I coasted with that for a while because I just didn't know better but I learned on my own and with some help from others. I am not the same person at all in my world views.

[True Blue Door]

91. Harry Truman was a member of the Ku Klux Klan for a while.

And yet he was the President who integrated the Armed Forces.

You have to distinguish faulty awareness in a private situation from the merits of a political leader. Some people make better judgments when they're responsible for others than when they can behave stupidly with few consequences to anyone.

By comparison, Hillary's outrages all occurred from high public office, in such morally stark and urgent situations that there is no coming back from her choices - even if she regretted them, which she vehemently does not.

[Samantha]

92. As I have discussed several times here, I was a Republican for 20 years

I became a Republican because I actually read the party platform and agreed with it. It was quite simple: the government should not interfere with people's private lives, it should basically just collect taxes, provide for our common defense and protect the borders. I have always been a private person, and I found the idea of the government staying out of my life very attractive. But the party drastically changed over the years, and when I was in my 40s, I left in disgust because I could not allow my name to be associated with the moves the Republicans were making. Once I came over to the left, I realized that was where I always belonged.

So I totally understand how Warren made the change.

But most importantly, I would like to state I did not vote for Reagan. I could not believe the Country was actually thinking of voting for a movie star for President. And of course, that is exactly what his two terms turned out to be, nothing but a starring role in the Oval Office.

Sam