General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan someone give me a serious answer: How does Bernie Sanders win?
I worked on my first political campaign at the age of 8. I became a Ward Committeeman in Philadelphia at the age of 20. I have worked on different political campaigns for people I believed in for decades. And most of them lost.
Now, that didn't blunt my enthusiasm for causes I believed in, but it did teach me to separate my hopes and dreams from my view of reality. And now that I provide funding for a LOT of candidates, I've taken to looking at their prospects in a harsh light: do they have a realistic chance of winning? Because it might make me feel good to support someone who agrees with me on everything, but if the choice is a candidate who agrees with me on most issues who can win, and a candidate who agrees with me on all issues who cannot, I'm going to go with the realistic choice.
Here at DU, we've apparently lurched into a full-on discussion about the prospects for the 2016 Presidential nomination, which currently seems to boil down to Clinton vs. Sanders (despite the hopes of a few, the reality that she really doesn't want to run seems to be sinking in).
As a supporter of Hillary Clinton, I could point to a number of factors which I think support her ability to win the nomination, and to win against most if not all the likely Republican candidates: the 17 million votes she racked up against a very popular and well-known opponent in 2008, her ability to win against Republicans in the 2000 and 2006 Senate races in NY (reminder that NY kept a Republican Senator in office until 1998 and a Republican Governor until 2006), her profile as a US Senator from a major State and as Secretary of State for the Obama administration, and preliminary polling match-ups between her and the Republicans.
Now, I've met and had dinner with Bernie Sanders. He's a nice guy, and I'd be hard-pressed to point to an issue he supports that I oppose. But when I study him as a candidate, I don't see the same strengths. He is:
-Untested: Bernie gets re-elected with about 250,000 votes in one of the most liberal States in the nation. To win the Primary, he will need to prevail in more moderate States with a more conservative bent to the local Democrats. To win the General Election, he will need to win a host of Purple battleground States. We have an electorate which is right now approximately 23% liberal, 34% moderate and 38% conservative (http://www.gallup.com/poll/166787/liberal-self-identification-edges-new-high-2013.aspx). Democrats win by grabbing for Liberals and Moderates; Republicans win by grabbing for Conservatives and Moderates. The more to the fringe the Republican or Democrat is, the more voters the other side can reach for. Now it's possible that the Republicans will nominate Ted Cruz or Ben Cardin, in which can any Democrat might be able to win, but I'm not prepared to go out on that limb. So, what abilities does he have to appeal to enough voters in enough States to pull together 270 EV?
-an self-described socialist: Maybe Americans should be more informed about political labels, and maybe they should have greater awareness of European Social Democracies, but they don't. The more time Bernie has to spend explaining what this means and what it doesn't, the less time he has to take on the Republicans.
-Old (76 on election day): Yes, Hillary is getting up there as well, but Bernie LOOKS old in a way Hillary doesn't and quite frankly in a way Reagan didn't. Doesn't bother me personally, but a lot of voters make decisions on very subjective and peripheral issues.
All that said, I have no objection to his running in the Primaries (and I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone else here who does). If he wins the Primary, I'll support him. But I truly don't see a path that show's he's electable. So, what am I missing?
stone space
(6,498 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)even if he became a Democrat...he will be seen as a Johnny-Come-Lately Democrat. He should have done that years ago...but he cannot win without money....and the Democrats have that...and he would need it to win. I don't like that but its true...as I always say...I am a realist.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)anyone can Caucus with....but you cannot win the Primary without BEING one!
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)A friend of mines father ran as a Republican in like 10 races and lost, changed registration by checking the different box and won the very next election.
Charlie Crist has been Republican, Democratic, and independent in the space of three or four years. It means about nothing.
If Bernie wants to change his registration, it takes moments, it isn't a stress point.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and that is the SMALLEST hurdle he faces...not the ONLY one...
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)Charlie Crist may opt for the rent is too dawn high party next cycle, it is of no consequence he will be the same fella.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Is quite the hurdle.....do you think the real Democrats will just get out of the way and the entite constituency will overlook that fact?
Autumn
(45,092 posts)This is a step.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)no way around that...
Autumn
(45,092 posts)may run. When Bernie joins in it will really get good. There should be a lively field running for the nomination. I say the more the merrier.
Bernie 2016!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You know....REAL Democrats not Left-Leaning Independents...who ARE a minority...
A Democrat in 2016!
Autumn
(45,092 posts)No one has announced yet. I keep hoping Liz will step up and run. It's early, she may change her mind.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)Nothing is set in stone.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Hillary is soon to announce....why would she say " no " so soon?
Autumn
(45,092 posts)We must be you are all over me again.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5830365
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Primary....
I have plenty of friends....
You however might try Tindr...
Autumn
(45,092 posts)Are you sure you don't want to be my friend? You can't seen to stay away from me.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)they are NOT dependable...and just fair weather friends....and that is why I don't make friends with them...unless they like Bernie Sanders....pledges to vote for whomever wins the Primary.
Do you think Bernie won't vote for Hillary Clinton???
Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)truth
Autumn
(45,092 posts)the truth is our friendship means just that much to me.
But that you would use an emoticon of someone taking a shit and label it truth is bothersome to me. As both you and I being Democrats ( well at least I am a Democrat for sure) should we really label truth as shit being flushed down the toilet? Or are you saying that you and I can't find truth in the current politician who is running and has been running since their last loss in 2008 ?
It's so confusing and tiring to figure out where you are coming from, and God knows my dear friend I have tried so hard to maintain our friendship and I have given 110% to this friendship to the point where I am weary.
I'm gonna need to step back and reevaluate our friendship. Maybe we are too different. I see truth as a beacon of light.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Not interested...
krawhitham
(4,644 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)including Hillary Clinton!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Keep pushing that Third Way corporate propaganda.
Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)
No opinion on topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(0 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 8:
No 'rights' to clean air and water
(+5 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(-3 points on Economic scale)
Opposes topic 14:
Maintain US sovereignty from UN
(-3 points on Economic scale)
No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the military
(0 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 16:
More enforcement of the right to vote
(+5 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 17:
Stay out of Iran
(+2 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Opposes topic 19:
Never legalize marijuana
(+2 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)All it shows in how narrow the US political spectrum is. On an international scale most Dem politicians are in the Right-Authoritarian corner right next to the GOP Bernie is literally the only person in Congress who is on the Left.
SickOfTheOnePct
(7,290 posts)Why don't you just link to this and add it to every response you offer?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Sanders is what the Democratic Party WOULD look like were it not for you Third Way enablers of the Capitalist Class.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)as so many other Left Leaning Independents on DU claim?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)won't for for Clinton. There may also be a bunch of people that don't vote at all. There is a possibility that Sanders may not cast his vote for her. So what?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)If so he wouldn't need to "become" a Democrat....
brooklynite
(94,573 posts)...as long as we win down the road?
Autumn
(45,092 posts)I'm all for that.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)That is the most disgusting question that I have ever seen posted by a supposed "democrat".
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)wouldn't want to reveal that now would ya?
ANY true Democrat would answer yes.....
Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)that say we can't say what we really want to say. You have to read between the lines or in this case behind the word.
Autumn
(45,092 posts)if one bit you.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)that is not an oath....that is a promise...
both my Grandparents were lifelong Democrats after voting for FDR!....they would BOTH make that pledge...
I am not bitten sorry....and you are STILL a Left Leaning Independent
Autumn
(45,092 posts)Come on Nilla, tell me true are you a psychic? Post your 800 number. Please...... Let me guess. Sylvia Brown???? Can I call you Sylvie???
Never mind your crystal ball is broken.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I will never vote for $hillary, not now, not ever.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democrats are perfectly willing to vote for whomever WE ELECT in the Democratic Primary.....
That's the thing with Democracy.....you don't always get what YOU want!
Its called Democracy not Fascism....
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)I've decided I'm open to some of the "change" we have been talking about and promised for so long.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)want to take that bet?
Autumn
(45,092 posts)Holidays, be back later. We can chat then
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but if you want to take that bet...let me know...my money says you won't!
Autumn
(45,092 posts)I just said we will chat later girl friend. Did I misunderstand? I thought we were both girls and good friends, because you constantly talk to me. I mean it's almost like you look for me. Wait, do you have EVERY BODY on DU on ignore except for me? That explains a lot. This is why we can't be best friends. By the way as a recovering gambling addict I don't make bets. Of any kind. Please don't respond to me again.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but I am just not into it....
Oh and I respond whenever I want...
yeah I would claim a gambling problem if I were you too.....
Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)cruel to the core....when it comes to Left Leaning Independents that will not commit to voting for whomever I and my fellow Democrats decide on in a Primary election....Damn skippy!
Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)for whomever wins the Primary.....why can't you get that through your noggin? And no I do not want a date with you either.....but thanks for asking!
Autumn
(45,092 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but as I said...I strictly date men. Sorry...
Autumn
(45,092 posts)might stop and you would stop following me all over DU attacking me because I don't love Hillary like you do. I don't date anyone I'm married.
Do you work or are you still unemployed? I'm retired more or less.
Autumn
(45,092 posts)I'll forgive you for being mean to me because of the Holiday's and all that crap.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)My kitchen serves Democratic dishes only....
Autumn
(45,092 posts)But I agree with you. Principle should always come first. Always.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and no I do not want a date with you....I don't date women...
Autumn
(45,092 posts)must have misunderstood. You know what??? You should put me on ignore. You won't even see me if you put me on ignore, I promise.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)when will you stop asking?
Autumn
(45,092 posts)Autumn
(45,092 posts)A lot of young people don't realize that. That is the one way to ruin a beautiful friendship. You can always get a date but a good friend is hard to come by. Always treasure your friendships. Always.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)then you are not one....you are Indpendent...simple as that...
By the way...I am a Socialist Democrat!
I see no reason for people that like Sanders to throw the towel in just yet.
I wasn't 'ready for Hillary' a year and a half ago, and I still am not.
Autumn
(45,092 posts)darn near anyone.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)Is admin asleep at the wheel or what?
Hey you!
Autumn
(45,092 posts)I wonder why? How are things with you?
Puglover
(16,380 posts)At least for a bit.
310 days and counting!
Autumn
(45,092 posts)It's not even officially winter yet and I'm so done with it. What are we counting down to? You getting outta here?
Gonna be a busy Spring and Summer. Digging 30 years of crap out of the house, selling and moving to Otavalo Ecuador. We have a home down there. Time to ditch the tundra and make it permanent.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)by LBJ. 16 years later Reagan got elected. The Republican Party has moved the entire political discussion and both parties far to the right.
In 1972 McGovern got his ass handed to him by Nixon. Since then the Democratic Party has run away from its core values, conceded the debate to the rightwing framing,and made sure that another actual progressive never gets a shot at running.
Autumn
(45,092 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I dislike the sneering attitude of some of the Clintonistas. I wonder how many of those with this WIN!1! attitude sat on their behinds on November 4. Don't tell me that I have to support somebody, if you didn't vote.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)brooklynite
(94,573 posts)...I know some folks here want him to run to basically pull Hillary to the left, but there are plenty of folks here who seem to believe he can actually win.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)the menagerie of fools and tools lining up on the Republican side.
If I might just take up the nomination side for starters, here's the way I think that might work.
1) Sanders changes his party registration to Democratic. The sine qua non, if you will.
Then on to Strategy:
Sanders must pierce the Clinton cloak of 'inevitability' that currently surrounds her and that drains oxygen out of the room. What better places to do that than Iowa and New Hampshire, where Sanders' brand of retail-style politics plays well and Hillary's strengths are not so readily leveraged? A Sanders win in Iowa would give him momentum and a Sanders win in New Hampshire (where one mgiht say he enjoys someting of a 'favorite son' status) would show that Hillary is weak in the mid-west and northeast. Then it's on to South Carolina where I think Hillary might reasonably be expected to do well, although her criticism of Obama in 2014 may cost her dearly among the state's African American population. But by then, if she's defeated in both Iowa and NH, it will be all bets off.
Here's a quetion to consider: should Hillary lose in both Iowa and NH, will she drop out? If that were to happen, then a Warren candidacy suddenly becomes a very real possibility.
I think a head-to-head clash between Sanders and Clinton would be the best thing to happen to the Democratic Party since I don't know when. Sanders is no Socialist, his self-titling notwithstanding, but even his brand of 'Social Democracy' will contrast nicely with Clinton's center-left positioning. Would make for a fascinating and lively nominating process and would inspire youth and people of color in ways Dems have heretofore only been able to dream of. Such an engagement with its base can only help Dems in down-ballot races and ballot initiatives.
Ideally, I'd like to see the race still a toss-up when it reaches the California primary. For once, my primary vote might actually mean something. Hell, I might even get off my duff and get involved with my local Dem Party organization as something more than a precinct-walker.
BTW: It's a great quesiton you ask and I'm glad someone is asking it. Each putative candidate -- notably Webb most recently -- should be able to delineate a potential path to victory or some other plausible justification for running.
2banon
(7,321 posts)A number of very Serious Responses have been offered, looks to me....
Bernie Sanders vs HRC? Sanders of course, no question!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That is the real kicker. He needs to be setting up operations in those states. It really wouldn't hurt if he came out now. That would afford him the ability to really get a ground game going in a couple of those early states now. Taking the early states is his only way. Those states have also proven willing to look at people with lower name recognition. Name recognition would no longer be a question if he won some of the first states. He cannot win a national election with his actions over the next couple of months. He could work for victory in early states over the next couple of months.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You can raise alot in a short time if people are willing to work for you. I do not like the idea of sneering at the very idea of a non insanely rich person running for President. Insanely rich people sometimes find it impossibly to understand poverty and discrimination. They have not dealt with it in years for the most part.
Rich folks have run this nation into the ground for my entire life. Hurting the poor, young, and disenfranchised doesn't bother them. Hurting the rich in an insignificant way is something they never consider. They WILL cut food stamps, welfare, increase jail sentences, ignore racism, run from issues, hurt the veterans, hurt the disabled, throw the lbgt under the bus for expediency's sake, not help the blacks to sooth the racists, and on and on.
He speaks about issues that regular people can care about. Having him run means these issues actually get discussed.
I do not like the way Others ignore important issues in order to stay 'safe'. Safe means status quo. Which may be OK for some, but not for me and mine.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)with that word will cut him off from a lot of moderates. Though unfair and wrong, the label "socialist" is poisonous in our system after more than a century of propaganda against socialism.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)public utterances. But if Sanders only campaigns on raising taxes on the rich and he gets some traction with it, that might be enough to lay the red-batiing ghost to rest once and for all.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Socialism has, for more than a century, been used this way. So other than the left, few will give him a fair hearing.
It is not a fair world.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)With the repubs I agree. The progressives, Millennials and moderates dems will listen and the conservaDems will be forced to support the nominee. We have a winner. Which moderates would stick up there nose to Bernie's definition of Democratic Socialism?
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I think he should run because he will open up the dialogue.
He is not going be nominated.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)In fact I bet you $1000 that is will actually bring otherwise apathetic Millennials to the polls, thus fixing the exact thing older folks here have been bitching about. We have no memory of the Cold War and to my generation "socialism" means Sweden, not Stalin.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I don't have $1000 to bet, not even with the All Father. I don't go higher than a cup of coffee. If you get down San Diego way, PM me and we can meet for cup anywhere but Starbucks. (I like Panera. It is a good place to write.)
I learned to vote in every election. I have searched for a way to instill that in younger generations, but I don't know how to do that.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)...actually BRING those young people to the polls.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Sorry, I could not resist.
But even if Bernie becomes a Democrat he is not a classic socialist. Like many liberals in the past he is willing to adopt Socialist like policies and programs.
CityDem
(1,103 posts)He won't be able to win the nomination yet alone the general election.
Won't be able to raise the money to win either.
Not a member of the Dem party -- if he changes he will be viewed as a opportunist.
Too old for many.
Warren is the answer for the progressive wing of the party.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)us into the discussion if Hillary doesn't want to talk about them. Why do you care what Sanders does? I think we need his voice in the mix because the centrists feel they have some ordained right to define the debate.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Most of us aren't members of the corporate elite. A candidate who represented us great unwashed could get some traction.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)It will work.
more seriously, he can't win today, but I am a believer in the power of rhetoric so I have a wait and see attitude.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I don't vote for candidates because of their "electability". If I did, I would have voted for Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes. I vote for for their stances on issues that matter to me.
Bernie does that.
Autumn
(45,092 posts)Bernie is the only one out there talking about running that does speak for me.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)which means some of his ideas will win
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Legitimizing the discussion of more left-populist topics & concerns. Yes, Bernie could surely do that with a Primary run.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The concept of "win" goes beyond moving into the White House in 26 months.
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Really hoping he will run.
reddread
(6,896 posts)thats quite the trove.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)tuning in and voting for their best interests ...
SO, ain't happening.
Atman
(31,464 posts)Bernie IS a Socialist. I guarantee the right already has a hundred videos in the can screaming "SOCIALIST BERNIE SANDERS!" America won't vote for a Socialist. Sure, some of us would have no problem with it, but to most Americans Socialist still means nasty European bogeymen under their beds waiting to force them to have health care and education. I know, I know, as a nation we're a pretty stupid lot. But the Democrats would be even more stupid if they think Bernie would stand a chance against a juggernaut of Koch Bros/Rove ads screaming "SOCIALIST!" I love the guy. But it saddens me to say that I think he is totally unelectable on a national scale. Americans vote for southern accents and FEAR. Fear of a crazy Northeast Socialist will trump any positive message he would bring to the podium.
Of course, I could be wrong.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)with only their labor (or predominantly so) to sell in the market, he can mobilize the 50% of the electorate that typically never bothers to vote. The 10% of hard-right who would never vote for a Socialist (or a Sanders-style Social Democrat) under any circumstances will see their influence proportionately reduced. The 20-30% of center-right voters might be very receptive to a pro-working class platform if it is clearly and uncompromisingly put forward.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)because we want her to have a challenger in the primary that will further help to bring about a real discussion of the issues we care about.
Since you obviously do not think Bernie should run in our primary how do you propose that we get Hillary to speak plainly and honestly about where she stands on the issues? And for many of us that is the problem. She is talking a good line but she is leaving out a lot of the issues.
When we listen to Bernie on the economy we know where he stands but she helped write the bill for Keystone, supports TPP, seems to be supporting Wall Street and the does not seem to be for ending the wars.
Where do you propose we confront her on these issues and how do we do it if not in the primary?
brooklynite
(94,573 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)exactly that. I will support Hillary if she wins the primary. And when she wins I will continue to advocate for the issues we do not agree with her on. It is not different than I have ever done.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)protesting. We can also take them to court.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)The Democratic Party isn't going to let an independent from the small state of Vermont get the nomination, even if he has caucused with them and runs as a Democrat. At some point one or more of the factions in the Democratic Party will toss him under the bus, but only after they've used him to their benefit.
While no one is too old to run, his age will be a factor during the primaries as will his choice of VP, many here thought McCain was too old to be President. I just don't see the country electing someone, regardless of party, in their late 60's or early 70's to be President. For that matter we have only had 5 Presidents 64 and older at the time they assumed office and none over the age of 70 when they assumed office in their first term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age
While Senator Sanders is very popular here, I don't see that popularity extending to very many of the swing states needed to win an election.
I also think it is highly unlikely that our next President will come from Congress, I expect that the next President will be someone sitting in a governor's chair right now, although I am not sure which one.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)if he switched to a Democrat. I have nothing against Hillary and voted for her for Senator, but not for President last time. I certainly don't hate her. She was a good Senator for NY.
Think about this. While people can say that Bernie is a Socialist (what's wrong with that?), a lot of people HATE Hillary. Just read the posts right here on DU to see that. At any rate, I will vote for whoever is the Dem nominee.
Rex
(65,616 posts)He has huge potential.
democrank
(11,094 posts)but I`m certain he thinks he`s going to change the conversation. He will and he`ll be a breath of fresh air.
wryter2000
(46,049 posts)He doesn't expect to win. He wants to turn the conversation in a progressive direction. It's pretty clear people support progressive policies (SS, increased minimum wage, etc.), but we aren't talking about them. His goal is to make whoever is the ultimate candidate more progressive.
At least that's my take.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)IS winning.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Warpy
(111,264 posts)hoping to awaken even more resentment of Beltway insiders who don't give a shit about what is happening to this country as long as the cash flow is positive. I think he's doing his bit to foment a revolution within the party.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)If Bernie Sanders runs, the republican wins - PERIOD!
Hotler
(11,424 posts)deutsey
(20,166 posts)Personally, I don't think he could be elected president at this time (to our country's detriment); however, I think it would be great if he ran anyway, if only to offer left-leaning solutions in his usual plainspoken and outspoken way to the issues affecting working people.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)and those of us who aren't just oh so infatuated by her are traitors to the cause. And if she loses it will be the left's fault for not voting enough.
But we're not allowed to support anyone else because they can't win. And if they didn't win, it would be our fault for supporting them. Not anyone's fault for not voting for them.
0rganism
(23,955 posts)(i'm not advocating this as something to rely on, but i think it could play out this way)
1. Bernie has to run as an independent candidate, doesn't matter too much who the other major party candidates are, although it's best if the Democrats nominated a weak and corrupt candidate
2. the Koch bros unleash an amazing ad campaign on his behalf designed to use Bernie as a spoiler against the Democratic candidate
3. the ad campaign works too well and a strong majority of Democrats abandon the Democratic candidate for Bernie, preferably to the point where the Democratic nominee drops out of the race. Bernie inherits the Democratic campaign infrastructure.
4. Bernie's unabashedly progressive messaging draws out the latent populist instincts of a majority of independent voters and even some republicans
5. Bernie wins in a squeaker, leaving the Koch bros wailing and gnashing their teeth
Yeah, it won't happen, but it's kind of fun to think about
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)And since you open by saying 'I have worked on different political campaigns for people I believed in for decades. And most of them lost' it's not really necessary to pretend you are often right. Most of your choices have lost by your own admission.
I note you do not make mention of issues you have fought for but my life is full of change gotten while the more 'moderate voices' claimed such changes were impossible, for generations. So the 'moderate voices' that affect tones of great certainty impress me not.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)well said
Peacetrain
(22,877 posts)Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat.. so there is no running on the Democratic ticket..
If he tried to run as an Independent.. on that national level.. where is his support going to come from.. A national ticket is a pricey thing.. Bernie Sanders in not a wealthy man who can pull the bucks out of his hip pocket like other indy candidates have done..
He would have to go not only to his base, but then to the corporates to pony up the money.
And for a 76 year old socialist, to have to go courting the corporates.. (at which point his most adamant base would turn on him with a searing vengeance).. just not seeing it..
Edit to add..If Bernie Sanders is going to run.. he has to get out there right now.. as of yesterday.. declare, and start rounding up the machinery for a national campaign.. I know he is going to be in Altoona Iowa in a couple of weeks.. Last year at this there were approximately 100 people.. have to jin up the campaign.. NOW..
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Listen, I respect the hell out of Senator Sanders and what he stands for.
But no way in hell does he win the nomination (if he declares as a Democrat) let alone the General.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)DU likes to fool itself into thinking it has its finger on the political pulse of America but, in reality, it's as big of an echo chamber as any other one sided online forum. We can whip ourselves into a lather over how "once people hear his message they'll come running", but it's pure fantasy. The word "socialist" attached to him is enough to tank his his chances.
I like Sanders and I think his presense would do a lot to change the dialogue in the primaries. He will not even get a whiff of the nomination though.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)She won't get the progressive vote and the millennials either. What's left, just the conservaDems and there isn't enough of them! She lost to Barack Hussein Obama, the Muslim terrorist born in Kenya. Do you think that the foreign born Muslim is more positive to people than a "Democratic Socialist"?
Atman
(31,464 posts)Does anyone here really believe Mitch and John and Ted and the rest of the crazies will respect the Woman Clinton any more than they respected the Kenyan Socialist Muslim Negro? For the GOP it will be 'Same story, different bra size." They will only accept a wealthy white male. It's part of the pathology.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)It doesn't seem to be grounded in anything but wishful thinking, but that's what DU thinks. Of course, DU has also claimed that progressives and liberals can't stand Obama for the majority of his presidency based on nothing but its own echo chamber. So, I'll take DU political insight with a grain of salt.
I don't recall Obama being called a foreign born muslim too much in Dem primaries. Probably because it was obviously untrue. Bernie Sanders is a socialist though. I don't have a problem with that, but it's a huge pill to swallow for the majority of the electorate.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Hekate
(90,692 posts)Thank you, brooklynite, for the benefit of your experience. Hopefully some here will come to understand the reality of which you speak. You,re not "missing" anything.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Progressive candidates suck.
Blahblahblah.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)But he's welcome to show otherwise in the primaries.
I still say Jerry Brown is our best hope. California was running like Sicily before he became Governor, now it's practically Switzerland. I'm curious what he could do nationally.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)1. By running, he gets the message out on the national stage, where many, many more people will hear it. THAT'S A FUCKING WIN, right there.
2. People like myself will work for him and vote for him.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Mainly, the economy. And by doing so, he drives a huge turnout in the face of repuke vote suppression, and takes it.
markpkessinger
(8,399 posts). . . Why, one time we even managed to elect a mixed-race President with an African name!
B Calm
(28,762 posts)quaker bill
(8,224 posts)you light a fire in the public imagination and then organize it.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)quaker bill
(8,224 posts)large numbers of passionate voters are more useful.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Bernie deserves a better class of supporters.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)His "straight talk" (I hate to borrow a phrase from McCain) is where he is most effective and the message will resonate with middle to lower class voters. He doesn't speak like a typical politician worrying about winning over voters here or there -- see his filibuster for reference.
Whether he is old or not, is message will inspire & motivate people to come to the polls. He easily shakes the typical politician label and unlike those centrist moderate record Democrats (who are still called raging lefties in advertising campaigns) his strategy works. Try to find a way to catch his appearance on Real Time where he was on fire on the journalist guest asked "Where were Democrats like you during the midterms?"
People locked into electability tunnel vision can't see the forest for the trees.
brooklynite
(94,573 posts)...with probably more network coverage than both candidates get today. How'd it work out?
KG
(28,751 posts)shireen
(8,333 posts)i am a very big fan of Bernie Sanders. I'd love to see him, or someone like him, become president. But I'm also a realist.
Entering a race for high national office is not always about winning. It's an opportunity to use that platform to drive grassroots change with powerful messages, to give people who otherwise don't pay attention a new vision of the country, an opportunity for them to hear TRUTH.
I hope Bernie enters. I will support him with great enthusiasm. But I also know Bernie is a practical realist. If he sees any possibility that a Democratic nominee could lose because of votes siphoned by his base, he will withdraw.
Fundamental change seldom occurs at the top level in our dysfunctional political system. It has to begin at the grassroots.
still_one
(92,192 posts)What many seem to miss is it isn't about him winning or losing, that has been the only thing that matters to some, it is bringing out and keeping focus on issues that affect most people
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)when the delegates really duked it out on the convention floor. I suppose if none of those in the primary got the necessary amount of votes for nomination then it could go to the floor. That however is highly unlikely.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I can see her having a path to winning the Primary.
Her path in the general to the WH then runs right into a problem of her not exciting a lot of people in the same year that Republican enthusiasm will be through the roof. They've got the entire Congress, they know if they can keep it and get the WH they can ram through anything and everything they want.
I think the ONLY chance Dems have in 2016 is a massive wave of populist candidates who stick to domestic economic issues - 'dinner table' issues throughout their campaigns. I think they could pull a wave election if they did that and did that well. If they wander off into simply being 'not Republicans' like they did in 2014, get ready for Repubpocalypse.