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brooklynite

(94,573 posts)
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:33 PM Nov 2014

Can someone give me a serious answer: How does Bernie Sanders win?

I worked on my first political campaign at the age of 8. I became a Ward Committeeman in Philadelphia at the age of 20. I have worked on different political campaigns for people I believed in for decades. And most of them lost.

Now, that didn't blunt my enthusiasm for causes I believed in, but it did teach me to separate my hopes and dreams from my view of reality. And now that I provide funding for a LOT of candidates, I've taken to looking at their prospects in a harsh light: do they have a realistic chance of winning? Because it might make me feel good to support someone who agrees with me on everything, but if the choice is a candidate who agrees with me on most issues who can win, and a candidate who agrees with me on all issues who cannot, I'm going to go with the realistic choice.

Here at DU, we've apparently lurched into a full-on discussion about the prospects for the 2016 Presidential nomination, which currently seems to boil down to Clinton vs. Sanders (despite the hopes of a few, the reality that she really doesn't want to run seems to be sinking in).

As a supporter of Hillary Clinton, I could point to a number of factors which I think support her ability to win the nomination, and to win against most if not all the likely Republican candidates: the 17 million votes she racked up against a very popular and well-known opponent in 2008, her ability to win against Republicans in the 2000 and 2006 Senate races in NY (reminder that NY kept a Republican Senator in office until 1998 and a Republican Governor until 2006), her profile as a US Senator from a major State and as Secretary of State for the Obama administration, and preliminary polling match-ups between her and the Republicans.

Now, I've met and had dinner with Bernie Sanders. He's a nice guy, and I'd be hard-pressed to point to an issue he supports that I oppose. But when I study him as a candidate, I don't see the same strengths. He is:

-Untested: Bernie gets re-elected with about 250,000 votes in one of the most liberal States in the nation. To win the Primary, he will need to prevail in more moderate States with a more conservative bent to the local Democrats. To win the General Election, he will need to win a host of Purple battleground States. We have an electorate which is right now approximately 23% liberal, 34% moderate and 38% conservative (http://www.gallup.com/poll/166787/liberal-self-identification-edges-new-high-2013.aspx). Democrats win by grabbing for Liberals and Moderates; Republicans win by grabbing for Conservatives and Moderates. The more to the fringe the Republican or Democrat is, the more voters the other side can reach for. Now it's possible that the Republicans will nominate Ted Cruz or Ben Cardin, in which can any Democrat might be able to win, but I'm not prepared to go out on that limb. So, what abilities does he have to appeal to enough voters in enough States to pull together 270 EV?

-an self-described socialist: Maybe Americans should be more informed about political labels, and maybe they should have greater awareness of European Social Democracies, but they don't. The more time Bernie has to spend explaining what this means and what it doesn't, the less time he has to take on the Republicans.

-Old (76 on election day): Yes, Hillary is getting up there as well, but Bernie LOOKS old in a way Hillary doesn't and quite frankly in a way Reagan didn't. Doesn't bother me personally, but a lot of voters make decisions on very subjective and peripheral issues.

All that said, I have no objection to his running in the Primaries (and I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone else here who does). If he wins the Primary, I'll support him. But I truly don't see a path that show's he's electable. So, what am I missing?

179 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Can someone give me a serious answer: How does Bernie Sanders win? (Original Post) brooklynite Nov 2014 OP
By people like me voting for him. (nt) stone space Nov 2014 #1
Aye. And me. nt Union Scribe Nov 2014 #5
Plus me and my whole family. polichick Nov 2014 #29
And like me and all my family and friends. Zorra Nov 2014 #95
And me. Scuba Nov 2014 #150
He doesn't... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #2
Johnny-come-lately, how many years has he caucused with dems? aspirant Nov 2014 #22
still NOT one..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #46
It is way easy to be a Democrat. All you do is check a box, it isn't an amazing feat. TheKentuckian Nov 2014 #166
and he STILL hasn't.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #167
So what? Being a Democrat is not a feat nor transformational. It is checking a box on a form. TheKentuckian Nov 2014 #173
but winning said primary as a johnny come lately VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #174
The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. Autumn Nov 2014 #3
that journey of a thousand miles requires money..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #4
The presidential race in 2016 is the Democrats to win or lose. Jim Webb Autumn Nov 2014 #11
sorry....Bernie ain't going to win the Dem Primary against ACTUAL Democrats.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #41
Perhaps, but it all depends on if any Liberal Democrats are running or not. Autumn Nov 2014 #44
She says no....AND she supports Hillary Clinton! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #47
Things can change, and things will most likely change. Hillary may not run. Autumn Nov 2014 #58
Oh so now Liz is a liar? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #60
Are we friends again yet? Autumn Nov 2014 #65
I ain't friends with Left Leaning Independents who cannot pledge to vote for whomever wins the VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #69
I don't do loyalty oaths, in fact I don't know any Democrats that do. Do you know any who do? Autumn Nov 2014 #74
I don't care what Left Leaning Independents think... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #75
For you my friend. Autumn Nov 2014 #80
for you.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #81
If you don't like that song about our deep friendship I will look for another. Autumn Nov 2014 #94
told you I dont want a date.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #145
you mean like how HRC said she would never run again after 2008 krawhitham Nov 2014 #144
color me not impressed VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #146
there are several Liberals mentioned.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #53
Hillary a LIBERAL? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Odin2005 Nov 2014 #70
Watch out you might make a friend. Autumn Nov 2014 #76
Oh yes...and I can prove it... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #77
LOL, that site is a joke. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #83
This again? SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2014 #100
Where the fuck do you get these dumb talking points? Odin2005 Nov 2014 #66
Do you think Bernie Sanders WON'T vote for Hillary Clinton when she wins the Primary VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #78
When did to you stop beating your spouse? Odin2005 Nov 2014 #84
Quick ask her if she will sign an oath to stop beating up on her best friend. Autumn Nov 2014 #96
There are a lot of people that HappyMe Nov 2014 #85
Money that bribes an unprincipled sell-out candidate? aspirant Nov 2014 #26
Who are you referring to as unprincipled? jwirr Nov 2014 #43
Anyone who takes mega-millions from corps and then does their bidding aspirant Nov 2014 #64
That leaves out a lot of Democrats. I do not see the 1% offering them much support. jwirr Nov 2014 #90
Compare Hillary vs Bernie aspirant Nov 2014 #138
I understand....but even Bernie cannot get elected for free.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #48
Do I interpret your comment as saying it's okay for Bernie to lose the election... brooklynite Nov 2014 #7
Interpret it any way you wish. Bernie will most likely run as a Dem. Autumn Nov 2014 #13
and if he doesn't and Liz doesn't.....do you pledge to vote for whomever wins the Primary? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #50
No. I will not do your silly little fucking loyalty pledge. Autumn Nov 2014 #56
because you can't.....you know the outcome! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #57
You are so hilarious Autumn Nov 2014 #59
Not hilarious...HONEST.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #61
Autumn, I agree with much of what you say, but I must respectfully disagree with this post. (n/t) Jim Lane Nov 2014 #147
I disagreed with it when I wrote it Jim, but you know we have rules Autumn Nov 2014 #151
If you believe any Democrat would sign a loyalty oath you wouldn't know a true Democrat Autumn Nov 2014 #102
Democrats on here...admit freely everyday to voting for the winner of the Primary... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #106
I am? OMG who gave you my fake identity at the other site????? Autumn Nov 2014 #109
Fuck this fascist loyalty pledge shit. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #72
says the Left-Leaning Independent.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #73
I'm not an "independent", I'm a socialist. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #82
+1 deutsey Nov 2014 #88
I'm gonna be whatever Bernie is. I've voted a straight Democratic ticket for well over 40 years. Autumn Nov 2014 #101
and Bernie WILL vote for Hillary Clinton...will YOU? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #105
I hope not. Autumn Nov 2014 #107
If she wins the Primary...I GUARANTEE he will! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #108
Hey girl friend I gotta grind up some beef to make my summer sausage so I can get it ready for the Autumn Nov 2014 #112
I don't date girls....thanks for the offer though... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #113
I didn't ask you for a date Autumn Nov 2014 #114
Obviously you do.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #115
See how cruel you are? Autumn Nov 2014 #117
Yep thats me.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #118
You do know you are my favorite 3rd way socialist democrat? Autumn Nov 2014 #120
I obviously don't give a damn what a Left Leaning Independent who wont commit to voting VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #121
I didn't ask you for a date. I wanted to share Hillary's recipe with you. Autumn Nov 2014 #124
Yes you have...multiple times.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #125
I just thought that if we become good friends this conflict we find ourselves in Autumn Nov 2014 #128
Do you want me to call you with the recipe for my Summer Sausage? It's very good. Autumn Nov 2014 #116
I don't cook Left Leaning Independent recipes... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #119
Did you know I got this recipe from Hillary when she was First Lady of Arkansas? Autumn Nov 2014 #122
Yeah my principles do....not sure what your problem is.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #123
You don't want to talk to me? You keep finding me and talking to me on different threads so I Autumn Nov 2014 #126
I told you I am not interested in dating you..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #127
Can we be friends? We have a lot in common. Well except for Hillary. Autumn Nov 2014 #131
I haven't asked you for a date but you are a very wise young woman not to date a friend. Autumn Nov 2014 #135
but if you cannot say you WILL vote for the Democrat that wins the Primary.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #104
Well said. HappyMe Nov 2014 #8
I was ready for Hillary at one time. Now I'm ready for Bernie, Liz or Autumn Nov 2014 #14
Hillary won't need ya...don't worry.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #63
What is going on? Puglover Nov 2014 #157
Hey you! I thnk they like the other site better. Autumn Nov 2014 #160
Good. Fiinally coming out of this disgusting cold crap. Puglover Nov 2014 #161
The way the weather keeps changing sucks, it's played hell with my sinuses Autumn Nov 2014 #162
Yup. Puglover Nov 2014 #163
In 1964 Goldwater got his ass handed to him Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #12
And it's time to move it back. One party just doesn't work. Autumn Nov 2014 #17
It seems to me like it HappyMe Nov 2014 #35
How does he win the nomination or how does he win the General Election? - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #6
Both... brooklynite Nov 2014 #10
It's too early to talk about how he might win the General Election, especially given KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #21
Good Job Comrades! 2banon Nov 2014 #51
By focusing all of his energy on early caucus states. NCTraveler Nov 2014 #9
People send him money? And collect it for him? bravenak Nov 2014 #15
The big lie that Democrats are socialsts is embedded in our electorate and Sanders association Agnosticsherbet Nov 2014 #16
Pardon me, but f*ck that red-baiting shit. Sanders is no Socialist any way, at least in his KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #31
The people who run campaigns will use it as an achor and he will not get a fair hearing. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2014 #98
A better way aspirant Nov 2014 #38
Personally, I don't think he will even get a fair hearing in a primary. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2014 #99
"Socialist" does not have has negative conotations for Millennials. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #62
Well that assumes they bother to show up and vote. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2014 #103
You missed where I said an honest-to-god socialist could... Odin2005 Nov 2014 #136
An "honest-to-god socialist" would be the opium of the millenial masses? Agnosticsherbet Nov 2014 #137
He stand no chance CityDem Nov 2014 #18
How do we get the issues that matter to many of upaloopa Nov 2014 #19
Articulating an economic populist message that resonates across the spectrum? Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #20
A free once of Vermont weed for everyone. aikoaiko Nov 2014 #23
Just like any other candidate. He convinces more voters to vote for him than the other candidates. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #24
People that hear Bernie's message, they like Bernie's message. Autumn Nov 2014 #27
Exactly. I didn't vote for McGovern, Dukakis, and others because of their "electability". Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #32
Well said! polichick Nov 2014 #33
he wont win but he might push our entire conversation to the left. La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2014 #25
An Overton window thing-- Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #34
Yes, and in my book that would count as a win. Jim Lane Nov 2014 #148
Same here emulatorloo Nov 2014 #152
by tapping into the votes that HRC will never get reddread Nov 2014 #28
The people of this country miraculously Cosmocat Nov 2014 #30
Obama is NOT a Socialist, but they claim he is. Atman Nov 2014 #36
If Sanders can plausibily advocate a working-class agenda, i.e., an agenda for those KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #40
those people will never vote for him, or HRC eom noiretextatique Nov 2014 #130
Okay, say we accept your analysis that she is the only one who can win. Many of us support Bernie jwirr Nov 2014 #37
Please go back and re-read the last paragraph of my post, and then re-state your question. brooklynite Nov 2014 #42
Fine but I am not going to restate the question. Too many Hillary supporters need to be asked jwirr Nov 2014 #89
How do we enforce campaign promises when they are broken? aspirant Nov 2014 #45
A combination of refusing to reelect them and just plain raising hell. Getting out there and jwirr Nov 2014 #92
Simple, he isn't going to get the nomination and wouldn't win in a general election Lurks Often Nov 2014 #39
That's the problem. The Democratic Party chooses, not "We the People". aspirant Nov 2014 #52
You are aware of Hillary's age, aren't you? n/t Aerows Nov 2014 #110
I am, I don't see her getting the nomination either Lurks Often Nov 2014 #111
I'd vote for him over Hillary in a Primary HockeyMom Nov 2014 #49
He will pull in a lot of independents if he runs on a Dem ticket. Rex Nov 2014 #54
I`m not sure Bernie thinks he is going to win democrank Nov 2014 #55
this wryter2000 Nov 2014 #68
Changing the conversation LWolf Nov 2014 #155
how does the nation win if HRC wins? Doctor_J Nov 2014 #67
I think he's in it for the bully pulpit on the campaign trail Warpy Nov 2014 #71
He doesn't - the republican wins liberal N proud Nov 2014 #79
The PTB(shadow government) will never let Sanders or Warren near the White House...n/t Hotler Nov 2014 #86
I've liked Bernie since he was first elected deutsey Nov 2014 #87
I love how we're supposed to assume Hillary is the only choice RedCappedBandit Nov 2014 #91
admittedly improbable scenario, but here's how i think it could work: 0rganism Nov 2014 #93
People win elections when voters vote for them. Bernie would walk with Oregon easily. Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #97
and California noiretextatique Nov 2014 #133
He doesn't... Peacetrain Nov 2014 #129
He doesn't. That's the cold, hard truth. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #132
He can't. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #134
Hillary can't win. aspirant Nov 2014 #139
Let's imagine she DOES win... Atman Nov 2014 #140
Yeah, "Hillary can't win" seems to be the DU line. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #142
He takes an extremely safe stance on guns. joshcryer Nov 2014 #141
DU has lurched, period Hekate Nov 2014 #143
Blahblahblah. Nominate the chosen Wall St. Third Way corporatist Democratic candidate. Zorra Nov 2014 #149
Sanders doesn't strike me as having the personality or presence for it. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #153
Like this: LWolf Nov 2014 #154
He connects with voters by talking about issues that really matter to them. KamaAina Nov 2014 #156
Stranger things have happened . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #158
How did he win his senate seat? B Calm Nov 2014 #159
The same way Barack won quaker bill Nov 2014 #164
I don't think Goldman Sachs will be helping out Sanders like they did Obama RiverLover Nov 2014 #172
Money is useful quaker bill Nov 2014 #179
Ponies, unicorns & pixie dust. baldguy Nov 2014 #165
He doesn't win and that is a shame. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #168
If he is on a national ticket the media will have no choice but to let him speak JonLP24 Nov 2014 #169
Mondale had an opportunity to speak as well.... brooklynite Nov 2014 #171
lots of 5-figure campaign donations? KG Nov 2014 #170
practically speaking ... shireen Nov 2014 #175
If his message resonates over the other candidates still_one Nov 2014 #176
In the old days maybe.... Historic NY Nov 2014 #177
How does Hillary? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #178
 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
2. He doesn't...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:36 PM
Nov 2014

even if he became a Democrat...he will be seen as a Johnny-Come-Lately Democrat. He should have done that years ago...but he cannot win without money....and the Democrats have that...and he would need it to win. I don't like that but its true...as I always say...I am a realist.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
166. It is way easy to be a Democrat. All you do is check a box, it isn't an amazing feat.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 08:45 PM
Nov 2014

A friend of mines father ran as a Republican in like 10 races and lost, changed registration by checking the different box and won the very next election.

Charlie Crist has been Republican, Democratic, and independent in the space of three or four years. It means about nothing.

If Bernie wants to change his registration, it takes moments, it isn't a stress point.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
173. So what? Being a Democrat is not a feat nor transformational. It is checking a box on a form.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:04 AM
Nov 2014

Charlie Crist may opt for the rent is too dawn high party next cycle, it is of no consequence he will be the same fella.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
174. but winning said primary as a johnny come lately
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:25 AM
Nov 2014

Is quite the hurdle.....do you think the real Democrats will just get out of the way and the entite constituency will overlook that fact?


Autumn

(45,092 posts)
11. The presidential race in 2016 is the Democrats to win or lose. Jim Webb
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:41 PM
Nov 2014

may run. When Bernie joins in it will really get good. There should be a lively field running for the nomination. I say the more the merrier.

Bernie 2016!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
41. sorry....Bernie ain't going to win the Dem Primary against ACTUAL Democrats....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:12 PM
Nov 2014

You know....REAL Democrats not Left-Leaning Independents...who ARE a minority...

A Democrat in 2016!

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
44. Perhaps, but it all depends on if any Liberal Democrats are running or not.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:15 PM
Nov 2014

No one has announced yet. I keep hoping Liz will step up and run. It's early, she may change her mind.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
69. I ain't friends with Left Leaning Independents who cannot pledge to vote for whomever wins the
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:31 PM
Nov 2014

Primary....

I have plenty of friends....

You however might try Tindr...

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
74. I don't do loyalty oaths, in fact I don't know any Democrats that do. Do you know any who do?
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:37 PM
Nov 2014

Are you sure you don't want to be my friend? You can't seen to stay away from me.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
75. I don't care what Left Leaning Independents think...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:38 PM
Nov 2014

they are NOT dependable...and just fair weather friends....and that is why I don't make friends with them...unless they like Bernie Sanders....pledges to vote for whomever wins the Primary.

Do you think Bernie won't vote for Hillary Clinton???

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
94. If you don't like that song about our deep friendship I will look for another.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:20 PM
Nov 2014

the truth is our friendship means just that much to me.

But that you would use an emoticon of someone taking a shit and label it truth is bothersome to me. As both you and I being Democrats ( well at least I am a Democrat for sure) should we really label truth as shit being flushed down the toilet? Or are you saying that you and I can't find truth in the current politician who is running and has been running since their last loss in 2008 ?

It's so confusing and tiring to figure out where you are coming from, and God knows my dear friend I have tried so hard to maintain our friendship and I have given 110% to this friendship to the point where I am weary.

I'm gonna need to step back and reevaluate our friendship. Maybe we are too different. I see truth as a beacon of light.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
77. Oh yes...and I can prove it...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:41 PM
Nov 2014

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)

No opinion on topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(0 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 8:
No 'rights' to clean air and water
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(-3 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 14:
Maintain US sovereignty from UN
(-3 points on Economic scale)

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the military
(0 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 16:
More enforcement of the right to vote
(+5 points on Social scale)

Favors topic 17:
Stay out of Iran
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 19:
Never legalize marijuana
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
83. LOL, that site is a joke.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:49 PM
Nov 2014

All it shows in how narrow the US political spectrum is. On an international scale most Dem politicians are in the Right-Authoritarian corner right next to the GOP Bernie is literally the only person in Congress who is on the Left.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
66. Where the fuck do you get these dumb talking points?
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:30 PM
Nov 2014

Sanders is what the Democratic Party WOULD look like were it not for you Third Way enablers of the Capitalist Class.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
78. Do you think Bernie Sanders WON'T vote for Hillary Clinton when she wins the Primary
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:42 PM
Nov 2014

as so many other Left Leaning Independents on DU claim?

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
85. There are a lot of people that
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:50 PM
Nov 2014

won't for for Clinton. There may also be a bunch of people that don't vote at all. There is a possibility that Sanders may not cast his vote for her. So what?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
48. I understand....but even Bernie cannot get elected for free....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:17 PM
Nov 2014

If so he wouldn't need to "become" a Democrat....

brooklynite

(94,573 posts)
7. Do I interpret your comment as saying it's okay for Bernie to lose the election...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:38 PM
Nov 2014

...as long as we win down the road?

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
56. No. I will not do your silly little fucking loyalty pledge.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:23 PM
Nov 2014

That is the most disgusting question that I have ever seen posted by a supposed "democrat".

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
57. because you can't.....you know the outcome!
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:24 PM
Nov 2014


wouldn't want to reveal that now would ya?

ANY true Democrat would answer yes.....
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
147. Autumn, I agree with much of what you say, but I must respectfully disagree with this post. (n/t)
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:04 AM
Nov 2014

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
151. I disagreed with it when I wrote it Jim, but you know we have rules
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 10:05 AM
Nov 2014

that say we can't say what we really want to say. You have to read between the lines or in this case behind the word.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
102. If you believe any Democrat would sign a loyalty oath you wouldn't know a true Democrat
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:37 PM
Nov 2014

if one bit you.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
106. Democrats on here...admit freely everyday to voting for the winner of the Primary...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:58 PM
Nov 2014

that is not an oath....that is a promise...

both my Grandparents were lifelong Democrats after voting for FDR!....they would BOTH make that pledge...

I am not bitten sorry....and you are STILL a Left Leaning Independent


Autumn

(45,092 posts)
109. I am? OMG who gave you my fake identity at the other site?????
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:06 PM
Nov 2014

Come on Nilla, tell me true are you a psychic? Post your 800 number. Please...... Let me guess. Sylvia Brown???? Can I call you Sylvie???

Never mind your crystal ball is broken.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
73. says the Left-Leaning Independent....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:33 PM
Nov 2014

Democrats are perfectly willing to vote for whomever WE ELECT in the Democratic Primary.....

That's the thing with Democracy.....you don't always get what YOU want!


Its called Democracy not Fascism....

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
101. I'm gonna be whatever Bernie is. I've voted a straight Democratic ticket for well over 40 years.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:34 PM
Nov 2014

I've decided I'm open to some of the "change" we have been talking about and promised for so long.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
112. Hey girl friend I gotta grind up some beef to make my summer sausage so I can get it ready for the
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:41 PM
Nov 2014

Holidays, be back later. We can chat then

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
113. I don't date girls....thanks for the offer though...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:43 PM
Nov 2014

but if you want to take that bet...let me know...my money says you won't!

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
114. I didn't ask you for a date
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:52 PM
Nov 2014

I just said we will chat later girl friend. Did I misunderstand? I thought we were both girls and good friends, because you constantly talk to me. I mean it's almost like you look for me. Wait, do you have EVERY BODY on DU on ignore except for me? That explains a lot. This is why we can't be best friends. By the way as a recovering gambling addict I don't make bets. Of any kind. Please don't respond to me again.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
115. Obviously you do....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:53 PM
Nov 2014

but I am just not into it....

Oh and I respond whenever I want...

yeah I would claim a gambling problem if I were you too.....

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
118. Yep thats me....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:58 PM
Nov 2014

cruel to the core....when it comes to Left Leaning Independents that will not commit to voting for whomever I and my fellow Democrats decide on in a Primary election....Damn skippy!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
121. I obviously don't give a damn what a Left Leaning Independent who wont commit to voting
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:03 PM
Nov 2014

for whomever wins the Primary.....why can't you get that through your noggin? And no I do not want a date with you either.....but thanks for asking!

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
128. I just thought that if we become good friends this conflict we find ourselves in
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:14 PM
Nov 2014

might stop and you would stop following me all over DU attacking me because I don't love Hillary like you do. I don't date anyone I'm married.
Do you work or are you still unemployed? I'm retired more or less.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
116. Do you want me to call you with the recipe for my Summer Sausage? It's very good.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 05:54 PM
Nov 2014

I'll forgive you for being mean to me because of the Holiday's and all that crap.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
122. Did you know I got this recipe from Hillary when she was First Lady of Arkansas?
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:04 PM
Nov 2014

But I agree with you. Principle should always come first. Always.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
123. Yeah my principles do....not sure what your problem is....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:05 PM
Nov 2014

and no I do not want a date with you....I don't date women...

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
126. You don't want to talk to me? You keep finding me and talking to me on different threads so I
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:08 PM
Nov 2014

must have misunderstood. You know what??? You should put me on ignore. You won't even see me if you put me on ignore, I promise.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
135. I haven't asked you for a date but you are a very wise young woman not to date a friend.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:24 PM
Nov 2014

A lot of young people don't realize that. That is the one way to ruin a beautiful friendship. You can always get a date but a good friend is hard to come by. Always treasure your friendships. Always.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
104. but if you cannot say you WILL vote for the Democrat that wins the Primary....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:57 PM
Nov 2014

then you are not one....you are Indpendent...simple as that...

By the way...I am a Socialist Democrat!

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
8. Well said.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:40 PM
Nov 2014


I see no reason for people that like Sanders to throw the towel in just yet.

I wasn't 'ready for Hillary' a year and a half ago, and I still am not.

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
161. Good. Fiinally coming out of this disgusting cold crap.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 06:25 PM
Nov 2014

At least for a bit.

310 days and counting!

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
162. The way the weather keeps changing sucks, it's played hell with my sinuses
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 06:33 PM
Nov 2014

It's not even officially winter yet and I'm so done with it. What are we counting down to? You getting outta here?

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
163. Yup.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 06:50 PM
Nov 2014

Gonna be a busy Spring and Summer. Digging 30 years of crap out of the house, selling and moving to Otavalo Ecuador. We have a home down there. Time to ditch the tundra and make it permanent.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
12. In 1964 Goldwater got his ass handed to him
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:43 PM
Nov 2014

by LBJ. 16 years later Reagan got elected. The Republican Party has moved the entire political discussion and both parties far to the right.

In 1972 McGovern got his ass handed to him by Nixon. Since then the Democratic Party has run away from its core values, conceded the debate to the rightwing framing,and made sure that another actual progressive never gets a shot at running.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
35. It seems to me like it
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:59 PM
Nov 2014
has to be dragged back. Some will kick and scream the entire time.

I dislike the sneering attitude of some of the Clintonistas. I wonder how many of those with this WIN!1! attitude sat on their behinds on November 4. Don't tell me that I have to support somebody, if you didn't vote.

brooklynite

(94,573 posts)
10. Both...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:40 PM
Nov 2014

...I know some folks here want him to run to basically pull Hillary to the left, but there are plenty of folks here who seem to believe he can actually win.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
21. It's too early to talk about how he might win the General Election, especially given
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:50 PM
Nov 2014

the menagerie of fools and tools lining up on the Republican side.

If I might just take up the nomination side for starters, here's the way I think that might work.

1) Sanders changes his party registration to Democratic. The sine qua non, if you will.

Then on to Strategy:

Sanders must pierce the Clinton cloak of 'inevitability' that currently surrounds her and that drains oxygen out of the room. What better places to do that than Iowa and New Hampshire, where Sanders' brand of retail-style politics plays well and Hillary's strengths are not so readily leveraged? A Sanders win in Iowa would give him momentum and a Sanders win in New Hampshire (where one mgiht say he enjoys someting of a 'favorite son' status) would show that Hillary is weak in the mid-west and northeast. Then it's on to South Carolina where I think Hillary might reasonably be expected to do well, although her criticism of Obama in 2014 may cost her dearly among the state's African American population. But by then, if she's defeated in both Iowa and NH, it will be all bets off.

Here's a quetion to consider: should Hillary lose in both Iowa and NH, will she drop out? If that were to happen, then a Warren candidacy suddenly becomes a very real possibility.

I think a head-to-head clash between Sanders and Clinton would be the best thing to happen to the Democratic Party since I don't know when. Sanders is no Socialist, his self-titling notwithstanding, but even his brand of 'Social Democracy' will contrast nicely with Clinton's center-left positioning. Would make for a fascinating and lively nominating process and would inspire youth and people of color in ways Dems have heretofore only been able to dream of. Such an engagement with its base can only help Dems in down-ballot races and ballot initiatives.

Ideally, I'd like to see the race still a toss-up when it reaches the California primary. For once, my primary vote might actually mean something. Hell, I might even get off my duff and get involved with my local Dem Party organization as something more than a precinct-walker.

BTW: It's a great quesiton you ask and I'm glad someone is asking it. Each putative candidate -- notably Webb most recently -- should be able to delineate a potential path to victory or some other plausible justification for running.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
51. Good Job Comrades!
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:19 PM
Nov 2014

A number of very Serious Responses have been offered, looks to me....

Bernie Sanders vs HRC? Sanders of course, no question!

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
9. By focusing all of his energy on early caucus states.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:40 PM
Nov 2014

That is the real kicker. He needs to be setting up operations in those states. It really wouldn't hurt if he came out now. That would afford him the ability to really get a ground game going in a couple of those early states now. Taking the early states is his only way. Those states have also proven willing to look at people with lower name recognition. Name recognition would no longer be a question if he won some of the first states. He cannot win a national election with his actions over the next couple of months. He could work for victory in early states over the next couple of months.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
15. People send him money? And collect it for him?
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014

You can raise alot in a short time if people are willing to work for you. I do not like the idea of sneering at the very idea of a non insanely rich person running for President. Insanely rich people sometimes find it impossibly to understand poverty and discrimination. They have not dealt with it in years for the most part.

Rich folks have run this nation into the ground for my entire life. Hurting the poor, young, and disenfranchised doesn't bother them. Hurting the rich in an insignificant way is something they never consider. They WILL cut food stamps, welfare, increase jail sentences, ignore racism, run from issues, hurt the veterans, hurt the disabled, throw the lbgt under the bus for expediency's sake, not help the blacks to sooth the racists, and on and on.

He speaks about issues that regular people can care about. Having him run means these issues actually get discussed.

I do not like the way Others ignore important issues in order to stay 'safe'. Safe means status quo. Which may be OK for some, but not for me and mine.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
16. The big lie that Democrats are socialsts is embedded in our electorate and Sanders association
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014

with that word will cut him off from a lot of moderates. Though unfair and wrong, the label "socialist" is poisonous in our system after more than a century of propaganda against socialism.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
31. Pardon me, but f*ck that red-baiting shit. Sanders is no Socialist any way, at least in his
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:58 PM
Nov 2014

public utterances. But if Sanders only campaigns on raising taxes on the rich and he gets some traction with it, that might be enough to lay the red-batiing ghost to rest once and for all.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
98. The people who run campaigns will use it as an achor and he will not get a fair hearing.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:29 PM
Nov 2014

Socialism has, for more than a century, been used this way. So other than the left, few will give him a fair hearing.

It is not a fair world.

aspirant

(3,533 posts)
38. A better way
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:09 PM
Nov 2014

With the repubs I agree. The progressives, Millennials and moderates dems will listen and the conservaDems will be forced to support the nominee. We have a winner. Which moderates would stick up there nose to Bernie's definition of Democratic Socialism?

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
99. Personally, I don't think he will even get a fair hearing in a primary.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:30 PM
Nov 2014

I think he should run because he will open up the dialogue.

He is not going be nominated.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
62. "Socialist" does not have has negative conotations for Millennials.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:26 PM
Nov 2014

In fact I bet you $1000 that is will actually bring otherwise apathetic Millennials to the polls, thus fixing the exact thing older folks here have been bitching about. We have no memory of the Cold War and to my generation "socialism" means Sweden, not Stalin.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
103. Well that assumes they bother to show up and vote.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:38 PM
Nov 2014

I don't have $1000 to bet, not even with the All Father. I don't go higher than a cup of coffee. If you get down San Diego way, PM me and we can meet for cup anywhere but Starbucks. (I like Panera. It is a good place to write.)

I learned to vote in every election. I have searched for a way to instill that in younger generations, but I don't know how to do that.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
136. You missed where I said an honest-to-god socialist could...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:51 PM
Nov 2014

...actually BRING those young people to the polls.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
137. An "honest-to-god socialist" would be the opium of the millenial masses?
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:58 PM
Nov 2014

Sorry, I could not resist.

But even if Bernie becomes a Democrat he is not a classic socialist. Like many liberals in the past he is willing to adopt Socialist like policies and programs.

CityDem

(1,103 posts)
18. He stand no chance
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:49 PM
Nov 2014

He won't be able to win the nomination yet alone the general election.

Won't be able to raise the money to win either.

Not a member of the Dem party -- if he changes he will be viewed as a opportunist.

Too old for many.

Warren is the answer for the progressive wing of the party.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
19. How do we get the issues that matter to many of
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:49 PM
Nov 2014

us into the discussion if Hillary doesn't want to talk about them. Why do you care what Sanders does? I think we need his voice in the mix because the centrists feel they have some ordained right to define the debate.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
20. Articulating an economic populist message that resonates across the spectrum?
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:50 PM
Nov 2014

Most of us aren't members of the corporate elite. A candidate who represented us great unwashed could get some traction.

aikoaiko

(34,170 posts)
23. A free once of Vermont weed for everyone.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:52 PM
Nov 2014

It will work.

more seriously, he can't win today, but I am a believer in the power of rhetoric so I have a wait and see attitude.
 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
24. Just like any other candidate. He convinces more voters to vote for him than the other candidates.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:52 PM
Nov 2014

I don't vote for candidates because of their "electability". If I did, I would have voted for Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes. I vote for for their stances on issues that matter to me.

Bernie does that.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
27. People that hear Bernie's message, they like Bernie's message.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:55 PM
Nov 2014

Bernie is the only one out there talking about running that does speak for me.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
34. An Overton window thing--
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:59 PM
Nov 2014

Legitimizing the discussion of more left-populist topics & concerns. Yes, Bernie could surely do that with a Primary run.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
148. Yes, and in my book that would count as a win.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:20 AM
Nov 2014

The concept of "win" goes beyond moving into the White House in 26 months.

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
30. The people of this country miraculously
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:58 PM
Nov 2014

tuning in and voting for their best interests ...

SO, ain't happening.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
36. Obama is NOT a Socialist, but they claim he is.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:03 PM
Nov 2014

Bernie IS a Socialist. I guarantee the right already has a hundred videos in the can screaming "SOCIALIST BERNIE SANDERS!" America won't vote for a Socialist. Sure, some of us would have no problem with it, but to most Americans Socialist still means nasty European bogeymen under their beds waiting to force them to have health care and education. I know, I know, as a nation we're a pretty stupid lot. But the Democrats would be even more stupid if they think Bernie would stand a chance against a juggernaut of Koch Bros/Rove ads screaming "SOCIALIST!" I love the guy. But it saddens me to say that I think he is totally unelectable on a national scale. Americans vote for southern accents and FEAR. Fear of a crazy Northeast Socialist will trump any positive message he would bring to the podium.

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
40. If Sanders can plausibily advocate a working-class agenda, i.e., an agenda for those
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:11 PM
Nov 2014

with only their labor (or predominantly so) to sell in the market, he can mobilize the 50% of the electorate that typically never bothers to vote. The 10% of hard-right who would never vote for a Socialist (or a Sanders-style Social Democrat) under any circumstances will see their influence proportionately reduced. The 20-30% of center-right voters might be very receptive to a pro-working class platform if it is clearly and uncompromisingly put forward.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
37. Okay, say we accept your analysis that she is the only one who can win. Many of us support Bernie
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:05 PM
Nov 2014

because we want her to have a challenger in the primary that will further help to bring about a real discussion of the issues we care about.

Since you obviously do not think Bernie should run in our primary how do you propose that we get Hillary to speak plainly and honestly about where she stands on the issues? And for many of us that is the problem. She is talking a good line but she is leaving out a lot of the issues.

When we listen to Bernie on the economy we know where he stands but she helped write the bill for Keystone, supports TPP, seems to be supporting Wall Street and the does not seem to be for ending the wars.

Where do you propose we confront her on these issues and how do we do it if not in the primary?

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
89. Fine but I am not going to restate the question. Too many Hillary supporters need to be asked
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:08 PM
Nov 2014

exactly that. I will support Hillary if she wins the primary. And when she wins I will continue to advocate for the issues we do not agree with her on. It is not different than I have ever done.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
92. A combination of refusing to reelect them and just plain raising hell. Getting out there and
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

protesting. We can also take them to court.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
39. Simple, he isn't going to get the nomination and wouldn't win in a general election
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:09 PM
Nov 2014

The Democratic Party isn't going to let an independent from the small state of Vermont get the nomination, even if he has caucused with them and runs as a Democrat. At some point one or more of the factions in the Democratic Party will toss him under the bus, but only after they've used him to their benefit.

While no one is too old to run, his age will be a factor during the primaries as will his choice of VP, many here thought McCain was too old to be President. I just don't see the country electing someone, regardless of party, in their late 60's or early 70's to be President. For that matter we have only had 5 Presidents 64 and older at the time they assumed office and none over the age of 70 when they assumed office in their first term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age

While Senator Sanders is very popular here, I don't see that popularity extending to very many of the swing states needed to win an election.

I also think it is highly unlikely that our next President will come from Congress, I expect that the next President will be someone sitting in a governor's chair right now, although I am not sure which one.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
49. I'd vote for him over Hillary in a Primary
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:17 PM
Nov 2014

if he switched to a Democrat. I have nothing against Hillary and voted for her for Senator, but not for President last time. I certainly don't hate her. She was a good Senator for NY.

Think about this. While people can say that Bernie is a Socialist (what's wrong with that?), a lot of people HATE Hillary. Just read the posts right here on DU to see that. At any rate, I will vote for whoever is the Dem nominee.

democrank

(11,094 posts)
55. I`m not sure Bernie thinks he is going to win
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:22 PM
Nov 2014

but I`m certain he thinks he`s going to change the conversation. He will and he`ll be a breath of fresh air.

wryter2000

(46,049 posts)
68. this
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:30 PM
Nov 2014

He doesn't expect to win. He wants to turn the conversation in a progressive direction. It's pretty clear people support progressive policies (SS, increased minimum wage, etc.), but we aren't talking about them. His goal is to make whoever is the ultimate candidate more progressive.

At least that's my take.

Warpy

(111,264 posts)
71. I think he's in it for the bully pulpit on the campaign trail
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:32 PM
Nov 2014

hoping to awaken even more resentment of Beltway insiders who don't give a shit about what is happening to this country as long as the cash flow is positive. I think he's doing his bit to foment a revolution within the party.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
87. I've liked Bernie since he was first elected
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
Nov 2014

Personally, I don't think he could be elected president at this time (to our country's detriment); however, I think it would be great if he ran anyway, if only to offer left-leaning solutions in his usual plainspoken and outspoken way to the issues affecting working people.

RedCappedBandit

(5,514 posts)
91. I love how we're supposed to assume Hillary is the only choice
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

and those of us who aren't just oh so infatuated by her are traitors to the cause. And if she loses it will be the left's fault for not voting enough.

But we're not allowed to support anyone else because they can't win. And if they didn't win, it would be our fault for supporting them. Not anyone's fault for not voting for them.


0rganism

(23,955 posts)
93. admittedly improbable scenario, but here's how i think it could work:
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:16 PM
Nov 2014

(i'm not advocating this as something to rely on, but i think it could play out this way)

1. Bernie has to run as an independent candidate, doesn't matter too much who the other major party candidates are, although it's best if the Democrats nominated a weak and corrupt candidate

2. the Koch bros unleash an amazing ad campaign on his behalf designed to use Bernie as a spoiler against the Democratic candidate

3. the ad campaign works too well and a strong majority of Democrats abandon the Democratic candidate for Bernie, preferably to the point where the Democratic nominee drops out of the race. Bernie inherits the Democratic campaign infrastructure.

4. Bernie's unabashedly progressive messaging draws out the latent populist instincts of a majority of independent voters and even some republicans

5. Bernie wins in a squeaker, leaving the Koch bros wailing and gnashing their teeth

Yeah, it won't happen, but it's kind of fun to think about

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
97. People win elections when voters vote for them. Bernie would walk with Oregon easily.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 04:23 PM
Nov 2014

And since you open by saying 'I have worked on different political campaigns for people I believed in for decades. And most of them lost' it's not really necessary to pretend you are often right. Most of your choices have lost by your own admission.
I note you do not make mention of issues you have fought for but my life is full of change gotten while the more 'moderate voices' claimed such changes were impossible, for generations. So the 'moderate voices' that affect tones of great certainty impress me not.

Peacetrain

(22,877 posts)
129. He doesn't...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:15 PM
Nov 2014

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat.. so there is no running on the Democratic ticket..

If he tried to run as an Independent.. on that national level.. where is his support going to come from.. A national ticket is a pricey thing.. Bernie Sanders in not a wealthy man who can pull the bucks out of his hip pocket like other indy candidates have done..

He would have to go not only to his base, but then to the corporates to pony up the money.

And for a 76 year old socialist, to have to go courting the corporates.. (at which point his most adamant base would turn on him with a searing vengeance).. just not seeing it..

Edit to add..If Bernie Sanders is going to run.. he has to get out there right now.. as of yesterday.. declare, and start rounding up the machinery for a national campaign.. I know he is going to be in Altoona Iowa in a couple of weeks.. Last year at this there were approximately 100 people.. have to jin up the campaign.. NOW..

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
132. He doesn't. That's the cold, hard truth.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:16 PM
Nov 2014

Listen, I respect the hell out of Senator Sanders and what he stands for.

But no way in hell does he win the nomination (if he declares as a Democrat) let alone the General.

LostInAnomie

(14,428 posts)
134. He can't.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 06:22 PM
Nov 2014

DU likes to fool itself into thinking it has its finger on the political pulse of America but, in reality, it's as big of an echo chamber as any other one sided online forum. We can whip ourselves into a lather over how "once people hear his message they'll come running", but it's pure fantasy. The word "socialist" attached to him is enough to tank his his chances.

I like Sanders and I think his presense would do a lot to change the dialogue in the primaries. He will not even get a whiff of the nomination though.

aspirant

(3,533 posts)
139. Hillary can't win.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:36 PM
Nov 2014

She won't get the progressive vote and the millennials either. What's left, just the conservaDems and there isn't enough of them! She lost to Barack Hussein Obama, the Muslim terrorist born in Kenya. Do you think that the foreign born Muslim is more positive to people than a "Democratic Socialist"?

Atman

(31,464 posts)
140. Let's imagine she DOES win...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:48 PM
Nov 2014

Does anyone here really believe Mitch and John and Ted and the rest of the crazies will respect the Woman Clinton any more than they respected the Kenyan Socialist Muslim Negro? For the GOP it will be 'Same story, different bra size." They will only accept a wealthy white male. It's part of the pathology.

LostInAnomie

(14,428 posts)
142. Yeah, "Hillary can't win" seems to be the DU line.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:53 PM
Nov 2014

It doesn't seem to be grounded in anything but wishful thinking, but that's what DU thinks. Of course, DU has also claimed that progressives and liberals can't stand Obama for the majority of his presidency based on nothing but its own echo chamber. So, I'll take DU political insight with a grain of salt.


I don't recall Obama being called a foreign born muslim too much in Dem primaries. Probably because it was obviously untrue. Bernie Sanders is a socialist though. I don't have a problem with that, but it's a huge pill to swallow for the majority of the electorate.

Hekate

(90,692 posts)
143. DU has lurched, period
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 PM
Nov 2014

Thank you, brooklynite, for the benefit of your experience. Hopefully some here will come to understand the reality of which you speak. You,re not "missing" anything.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
149. Blahblahblah. Nominate the chosen Wall St. Third Way corporatist Democratic candidate.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:12 AM
Nov 2014

Progressive candidates suck.

Blahblahblah.


True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
153. Sanders doesn't strike me as having the personality or presence for it.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 11:48 AM
Nov 2014

But he's welcome to show otherwise in the primaries.

I still say Jerry Brown is our best hope. California was running like Sicily before he became Governor, now it's practically Switzerland. I'm curious what he could do nationally.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
154. Like this:
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:03 PM
Nov 2014

1. By running, he gets the message out on the national stage, where many, many more people will hear it. THAT'S A FUCKING WIN, right there.

2. People like myself will work for him and vote for him.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
156. He connects with voters by talking about issues that really matter to them.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:59 PM
Nov 2014

Mainly, the economy. And by doing so, he drives a huge turnout in the face of repuke vote suppression, and takes it.

markpkessinger

(8,399 posts)
158. Stranger things have happened . . .
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 06:15 PM
Nov 2014

. . . Why, one time we even managed to elect a mixed-race President with an African name!

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
169. If he is on a national ticket the media will have no choice but to let him speak
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 09:19 PM
Nov 2014

His "straight talk" (I hate to borrow a phrase from McCain) is where he is most effective and the message will resonate with middle to lower class voters. He doesn't speak like a typical politician worrying about winning over voters here or there -- see his filibuster for reference.

Whether he is old or not, is message will inspire & motivate people to come to the polls. He easily shakes the typical politician label and unlike those centrist moderate record Democrats (who are still called raging lefties in advertising campaigns) his strategy works. Try to find a way to catch his appearance on Real Time where he was on fire on the journalist guest asked "Where were Democrats like you during the midterms?"

People locked into electability tunnel vision can't see the forest for the trees.

brooklynite

(94,573 posts)
171. Mondale had an opportunity to speak as well....
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 10:25 PM
Nov 2014

...with probably more network coverage than both candidates get today. How'd it work out?

shireen

(8,333 posts)
175. practically speaking ...
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:39 AM
Nov 2014

i am a very big fan of Bernie Sanders. I'd love to see him, or someone like him, become president. But I'm also a realist.

Entering a race for high national office is not always about winning. It's an opportunity to use that platform to drive grassroots change with powerful messages, to give people who otherwise don't pay attention a new vision of the country, an opportunity for them to hear TRUTH.

I hope Bernie enters. I will support him with great enthusiasm. But I also know Bernie is a practical realist. If he sees any possibility that a Democratic nominee could lose because of votes siphoned by his base, he will withdraw.

Fundamental change seldom occurs at the top level in our dysfunctional political system. It has to begin at the grassroots.

still_one

(92,192 posts)
176. If his message resonates over the other candidates
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:49 AM
Nov 2014

What many seem to miss is it isn't about him winning or losing, that has been the only thing that matters to some, it is bringing out and keeping focus on issues that affect most people

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
177. In the old days maybe....
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:51 AM
Nov 2014

when the delegates really duked it out on the convention floor. I suppose if none of those in the primary got the necessary amount of votes for nomination then it could go to the floor. That however is highly unlikely.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
178. How does Hillary?
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:48 PM
Nov 2014

I can see her having a path to winning the Primary.

Her path in the general to the WH then runs right into a problem of her not exciting a lot of people in the same year that Republican enthusiasm will be through the roof. They've got the entire Congress, they know if they can keep it and get the WH they can ram through anything and everything they want.

I think the ONLY chance Dems have in 2016 is a massive wave of populist candidates who stick to domestic economic issues - 'dinner table' issues throughout their campaigns. I think they could pull a wave election if they did that and did that well. If they wander off into simply being 'not Republicans' like they did in 2014, get ready for Repubpocalypse.

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