Zimmy's side just released a statement that blew a HUGE hole is his defense and completely contra-

[Ecumenist]

dicts zimmy's claim that Trayvon was ON TOP of him BANGING his head into the ground...Here's what they said:

"ZIMMERMAN TOLD POLICE HE DIDN'T REALIZE THAT MARTIN WAS SERIOUSLY INJURED AND THAT HE LUNGED TO GET ON TOP OF HIM AFTER THE TEENAGER FELL TO THE GROUND."

Now, if that's the case, HOW DID TRAYVON BASH HIS HEAD INTO CONCRETE if zimmy was on top of him? I thought he said that Trayvon was on top of him with 8 arms choking, beating, smothering him and trying to get his gun! Now, zimmy" LUNGED TO GET ON TOP OF HIM'? WTF??!!

He also claimed that Trayvon was trying to get his gun AFTER Trayvon WAS ON TOP OF HIM....Now, He's saying that Trayvon was INJURED and that he got on top of him, completely contradicting his statement that Trayvon made that STUPID comment that Zimmy, "was going to die tonight" and then tried to get the gun away from him while he was also "SLAMMING HIS HEAD INTO THE CONCRETE!

Which the hell is it zimmy? Can't remember his lies and doesn't even care if they make any sense. What do you guy's think?

[Junkdrawer]

1. Float shit story after shit story and hope that the focus groups (us) come up with one that a jury..

would believe.

No, thanks.

[Warpy]

22. Exactly, the cops took his preposterous first statement

and pressure from his important daddy meant they accepted it at face value instead of asking the questions that needed to be asked.

It's only when the media picked it up that they started to flail around for alternate explanations and every single one gets more preposterous.

The truth is that Zimmerman was not particularly close to Martin when he fired. He did not get on top of him post mortem.

How do I know? I know what chest wounds look like and how profusively they bleed. Zimmerman's clothing was clean.

[TheMadMonk]

63. I got a distinct whiff of "Shut the fuck up." with the shot that ended the screams. /nt

[robinlynne]

153. Actually, the investigator didn't belive zimmerman's first statement and said so in an affidavit.

[Cosmocat]

148. Zimmerman is in a tough spot I think in this regard

If this goes to jury, he pretty much has to get on the stand and testify to give his account of what happened.

I think everything that has occurred to this point indicates that this clown is pretty erratic, and can't keep ANTHING straight.

The prosecutor is going going to have to be pretty darn bad to not have a field day with him on the stand, and it is going to be hard for any jury to find him innocent.

I would hate to have to be defending him.

[Daalalou]

2. This isn't possible either

According to the source, Zimmerman told police that Martin’s last words after the shooting were, “Okay, you got it.” He said the phrase twice, then turned and fell face-down on the ground.

If Martin was on top, bashing his head and trying to smother him, how could he turn and fall face down to the ground? That scenario requires Martin to be standing up.

[Ecumenist]

3. EXACTLY! I don't get it. How stupid can you be and still be breathing?

[Ecumenist]

34. Wouldn't Trayvon have BROKEN bones in his face if he FELL FACE FIRST on the ground?

[Quixote1818]

67. You have to fall and hit the sidewalk to break bones in your face

and even the sidewalk might not do that. Also, he may have been able to break his fall with his hands before dying.

[Ecumenist]

68. My aunt fell face first on CARPET after losing her footing and BROKE HER NOSE, HER CHEEK,

her Jaw, 3 teeth and cracked her frontal maxilla. She also broke her left wrist because, as you were postulating, she attempted to break her fall using her hands... NOW what?

BTW, she had no kidney disease, no osteoporosis, she was a bit over 38 years old.

[magical thyme]

151. even without osteoporoisis

bones are a *lot* more brittle and breakable after 30 or so.

I had a 1500 pound horse *fall* on me when I was 27 years old. I didn't break anything.

I had an 800 pound horse roll over me when I was 48 years old. Fractured sternum and a lot of other injuries.

Teenage bones bend and bounce.

Plus a lot depends on the angle of impact.

That said, If Trayvon was pounding Zimmy into the ground when Zimmy shot him, as said above, Trayvon wouldn't have been able to turn around and fall face down. That whole end of the story just doesn't add up.

[Ecumenist]

155. Exactly..Magical. I don't buy the whole "beat my head into the concrete' spiel. NOT.AT.ALL!

[magical thyme]

162. one scenario I can easily imagine

is that Trayvon, in self-defense against a stalker, got off a lucky punch to George's nose. George fell backward and hit his head on the edge of the paved path (hence the horizontal cut in ABC's pic, assuming that pic is not a photo-shop job). George got pissed, pulled out his gun and shot Trayvon.

The guy that took the photo of Trayvon says the gun residue was clearly visible on his gray hoodie. If that is true, then either Trayvon fell backwards and was face up and somebody rolled him over. Or he fell forward, face down and somebody rolled him over. But I doubt the police, rolling him over to perform CPR, would have allowed the photographer or anybody else close enough to get a clear view of his hoodie. So something is just not quite adding up. Again.

[vaberella]

71. He got shot, said words, turned and fell face down?

He's not Bugs Bunny here....WTF is that kind of statement.

[Ecumenist]

86. I know . Who does that outside of a Fu' Flick or a Warner Brothers cartoon?

[MattBaggins]

110. Not to mention the 911 tape where the shot is heard

There was silence after the gun shot

[Ecumenist]

112. But I guess according to zimmy and his legion of apologists, the reason we hear the screaming stop

is because he knew he was no longer in danger from the "dangerous, hoodie-wearing, skittle eating, tea drinking, gangster, thug-type criminal' that he'd just shot.

[HockeyMom]

4. Gun owners will support Zimmer

You need to recognize that fact. It goes beyond guilt or innocence, or political party it seems.

[11 Bravo]

8. I'm a gun owner. I also have a VA concealed cary permit ...

and I hope Zimmerman rots in jail.

[Ecumenist]

9. Thank You. 11 Bravo! You're a gun owner like my husband. Decent, sane

and honest... There are MANY of you out there!

[HockeyMom]

10. My husband, CCW owner in Florida, denied in NY

supports Zimmerman and the NRA. I disagree. I will not support him on this. They can steal his guns at home for all I care. Actually, I wish they WOULD. Teach him a lesson.

[Solomon]

38. I commend you for being a D uer. Wow. Way to

go.

[Bake]

11. I'm another one.

And I too hope Zippy burns in hell. After rotting in prison.

Bake

[freshwest]

50. Thanks and we need to hear more gun owners firing some verbal volleys at Nugent.

At this point, with the NRA's backing and as an official spokesperson for them, all gun owners are going to be painted with the same brush.

It may not seem fair to individual gun owners, but there has been no blowback from them on him. He should be denounced by responsible gun rights people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. We are and SYG laws are pure lunacy.

[jwirr]

47. We also have guns and want justice for Trayvon.

[Ecumenist]

49. There are millions like you in the country who say that they support Trayvon

Not every gun owner is a far out nut nor, just my husband, do they bow before the NRA. JWirr?

[jwirr]

126. The jwirr is part of my initial and the last part of my oldest daughters name. JW and Terri.

[Ecumenist]

128. Well then. JW and Terri...

X2

[fascisthunter]

45. good... glad to hear it

that poster didn't say "all".

[obamanut2012]

13. I'm a gun owner with a CCW permit

Zimmerman needs to get some serious time in prison.

[hootinholler]

32. If by gun owners

You mean racists, I can agree. I am offended by your statement and attitude.

[guitar man]

43. nope

gun owner, stong 2a supporter here. What Z did was wrong and he needs to be locked up for it.

[NutmegYankee]

61. Please put down the crack pipe.

I like many other gun owners think he's a child murderer and that he should be in prison.

[oldhippie]

62. This one won't ...

I hold a CHL and carry daily. I have for years. I won't support Zimmer.

So your statement is a FAIL.

[dionysus]

94. sorry, but that's a terribly ignorant statement. it's ludicrous, in fact.

[X_Digger]

129. Feel free to set that brush down, it must be heavy, being so big and all. n/t

[Codeine]

158. No we won't. Not all of us.

Owning a gun doesn't make me a supporter of straight-up murder.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

5. My guess? There's too much evidence Zimmerman was on top.

They're trying to offer up a scenario where he started out on the bottom and switched.

Just my guess.

[Ecumenist]

6. He wasn't on the bottom, He had to be standing up because he says that he LUNGED

ON TOP OF TRAYVON once he was ON THE GROUND! You cannot lunge from your back...ain't possible with gravity.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

26. I totally agree.

However, that totally blows his original story out of the water. I think this is an effort on behalf of his defense to muddy things up a bit more.

[Ecumenist]

30. EXACTLY. It also makes him look like a bigoted murderer who can't even lie right. This is

something he's going to have to deal with when his trial begins.

[Common Sense Party]

54. You do realize that he says he lunged onto Trayvon AFTER he shot him.

You're on top of me, I shoot you, you fall to the ground, I then get up and get on top of you, which is where eyewitnesses say they saw him.

I'm not saying I buy his version, but you have to get the sequence correct to understand his story.

[Ecumenist]

57. If you remember, he also said, in the earlier iterration of this crapola story, that Trayvon

WAS ON TOP OF HIM, SLAMMING HIS HEAD INTO THE CONCRETE. He was also supposedly, PINNING zimmy's ARMS WITH HIS KNEES and SOMEHOW, CUTTING OFF HIS AIR BY BLOCKING HIS MOUTH WITH HIS HANDS. Even crazier, he then noted the gun, said something about "you're going to die tonight" and attempted to get the gun

Now, if that's the case. ( and if you'll recall, this is the story that was postulated as his team of lying slobs polluted the airways running hither and yon- he was also just this side of having to wear diapers the rest of his life and be spoon fed by carers for the rest of his life), how is it now that zimmy shot Trayvon. DIDN'T REALISE THAT HE WAS BADLY INJURED and lunged on top of him?

How do you lunge on top of someone when a few seconds before, they were on top of you, beating your head in? How do you shoot someone in the chest, (BLOOD RICH AREA-HEART, AORTA, VENA CAVA, LUNGS, get out WITHOUT so much as a SMEAR of blood and lunge from a semi prone position to find oneself on top of your "attacker"? All this happened within less than 90 seconds and Im being generous when I say that.
Please.... I may be many thing but STUPID ain't one of them.

[Common Sense Party]

65. Having no blood on him is the most unbelievable part of Zimmerman's story.

The ballistics angles will tell if he was on the ground and Trayvon was above him, or if he's lying.

One witness supposedly corroborates Zimmerman's version:

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

[Ecumenist]

73. I've always wondered about that witness. It just seemd REALLY funny considering that every other

witness who saw the scuffle or the immediate aftermath, described zimmerman as being on TOP OF TRAYVON. Haven't heard from this one since. As is now being reported again.

[cr8tvlde]

80. The first witness...think it was the shadowed one on ABC ... heard them back

behind her unit scuffling...could not tell skin color, but size. She was the one that actually held the phone up to the window for 911 to hear the scuffling, in the meantime the shot or "popping sound" went off. She's narrating it...she said did they hear the popping sound? After the shot, the big one got up wandered around and then the police got there. She felt it was the one on bottom who was yelling.

The video then 35 minutes later in the police station there is no sign of scuffle, injury, limping, etc. The time lines on this are exact from Travon's cell records, the girlfriend's information, George's 3 recorded calls to the police on the telephone and local witnesses, even though it was dark. I mean, other than a helicopter film crew, we couldnt get much more precise information.

[Ecumenist]

83. I have to agree with you, Cr8vlde! It kills me these people who say that we're just making up

things and jumping to conclusions....I guess we're not supposed to believe our lying eyes and ears.

[Vattel]

133. Please say more.

I heard one witness say in an interview that she thought the larger man was on top. Are there others who say they could actually see who was on top and that it was Zimmerman? (Genuine question.)

[Ecumenist]

135. Yep. The Blond woman's roommate, ( shes the latina, I can't remember her name), the older

woman who was in silhouette, and a man who asked that his identity be concealed. The last two came forward about 2 weeks ago. The woman in silhouette even asked the police if they wanted her to show them where she saw the final scuffle take place and they declined. She watched it from her window, as did the gentleman but from a different vantage point.

[Vattel]

137. Thank you. I will have to find the news reports about that.

[Ecumenist]

140. I will try to find them by tomorrow for you. That's a promise.

[pinboy3niner]

146. Here's the story and video of one eyewitness who was interviewed twice by CNN

This eyewitness was one of the 911 callers that evening; this is the story and video on her second, more detailed interview with CNN.

Witness, Zimmerman attorneys address key questions in Trayvon shooting

By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 1:07 AM EDT, Sat April 7, 2012

...


Who yelled for help?

...


"From the very beginning and I still do feel that it was the young boy," the witness, who wants to remain anonymous, told CNN Friday.

The witness lives in the apartment complex where the shooting occurred and saw the incident through her window.

...


When pressed if she could determine who was yelling, the witness said "it was the younger, youthful voice (rather) than it was the deep voice I heard when they were arguing."

...


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

The video of this CNN interview is here:
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2012/04/07/ac-trayvon-martin-eyewitness.cnn

[vaberella]

72. So after shooting the boy in point blank range...

He thinks the boy is not injured and jumps on top of the boys bag? I don't get it.

[Ecumenist]

82. Vaberella, this is the latest lie to come from him camp. Makes no damn sense, does it?

He shot him in the chest with a 9mm loaded with hollow point bullets but he didn't realise that Trayvon was seriously injured....

[MoonRiver]

7. He's going to be force to plead for Manslaughter.

Maybe that's what the DA is angling for.

[vaberella]

74. No man this shit is more than manslaughter. n/t

[MoonRiver]

118. I agree but I think they will try to plead it.

As for me, I hope he rots in prison for the rest of his life.

[stevenleser]

12. Do you have a link? I want to ridicule this to my Friends too... nt

[Ecumenist]

19. Sure StevenLeser...Here ya Go:

Oh, by the way, Trayvon's last words have changed from "Okay, you got me" to "Okay you got it"
They can't get their lies straight.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. And it opens range between the shoote and the shooter

Yes, that matters.

[Whisp]

15. it was all hearsay

the brother and the father were saying those things, not The Zim, as far as I recall.

the brother and the father were invited to spew their distortions on the likes of the Piers Morgan show and on Fox and elsewhere. I doubt what George says now will be in conflict at all about what his stupid relatives said earlier.

[Ecumenist]

28. They may have been the ones saying BUT they also prefaced it by telling all the world that

it was what ZIMMY TOLD THEM. BIG DIFFERENCE!

[Whisp]

40. lieing is not against the law

in fact lieing can make you some good book deals and reality shows. and get you a senatorship or congress seat. or maybe a real good job if you lie big enough on a resume. Lieing is the new truth.

they were not under oath, they could have 'misinterpreted or misunderstood' anything Zim said.

They are safe and I don't think any of the offal that came out of their mouths will affect George Zimmerman at all - but we will see. what is despicable tho is that people like Piers Morgan and other shitstains who invited the Zimmerman's and their lies onto their shows for ratings.

[Ecumenist]

51. Um, it's going to be problem because they will mot likely be called to testify...

He told them things by their own admission. That's makes it FAR more than Hearsay. The "misinterpretations" were the same across the board meaning that his stumbling team of liars were saying the same things and these thing would mutate as more information came out to disprove their stories. Oliver. Pappy Zimmy, zimmybro, frank taaffe. Their going to have a problem explaining their stories matching and mutating together CAUGHT.ON.TAPE.

[Whisp]

55. it will be interesting, that's for sure.

I would like that all of them purger themselves and take the punishment for but alas, that only happens in good movies about justice fantasies.

[Ecumenist]

101. Yeah, well, I'll bet you any amount of money that at least the brother and father will

have to testify. Think they'll come clean? Just get a WHOLE lot of popcorn ready You'll need it. Trust, these type WILL perjure themselves, trust me.

[KansDem]

16. Z-Man carried a gun because he was afraid but forgot he had it...

...because he was afraid.

Zimmerman claimed that he yelled for help, and that various neighbors who peered out to see the fight from their backyards didn’t get involved. Zimmerman, the source said, told officers he was so paralyzed by fear that he initially forgot he had a gun, but he said that after Martin noticed his 9mm pistol, Zimmerman pulled it out of his belt holder and fired one round, a hollow-point—the round that killed Martin. (The autopsy report on Martin has not yet been released.)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html

I don't buy this equine excrement for a second...

[Ecumenist]

25. Neither do I, KansDem, neither do I.

[Meiko]

18. I doubt very much

that Zimmerman's defense team would release a statement like this...LINK please.

[Ecumenist]

21. Really? Meh..... been here a long time and NEVER SAY ANYTHING THAT CANNOT BE BACKED

UP WITH A LINK. This is DU not free republic, dear. Here ya go:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html

Knock yourself out, kid.

[Meiko]

24. Thanks for the link

why so defensive? It was a simple request.

[Ecumenist]

27. "I DOUBT VERY MUCH THAT ZIMMERMAN'S DEFENSE TEAM WOULD RELEASE A STATEMENT

LIKE THIS-LINK PLEASE" Not defensive just a bit taken aback, with you being new and all. What do you expect? BTW, welcome to DU and enjoy your stay!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. You made it sound as if you didn't believe the OP.

That type of wording does tend to make people defensive. It's human nature.

[Meiko]

58. Yes it did and

It was not my intent...sometimes things don't come out quite right.Sorry

[Ecumenist]

89. Not a problem Meiko.....

[Vattel]

78. This link doesn't back you up.

It doesn't say that Zimmerman's defense team released this statement.

It does say: "Zimmerman’s lawyer, Mark O’Mara, did not return calls seeking comment on the case."

[Ecumenist]

87. and you don't read. I DIDN'T SAY HIS DEFENSE TEAM....

[Vattel]

125. Lol, why didn't you say that in reply to the post

Last edited Fri Apr 20, 2012, 12:54 AM - Edit history (1)

that questioned whether Zimmerman's "defense team" would release such a statement? Instead you said you had a link to back it up. Perhaps you can understand my confusion.

Be that as it may, you did say that "Zimmy's side" released a new statment about what happened. That is incorrect, but I do not expect that you will admit that.

[pepperbear]

20. WAIT A TIC.....how did Trayvon even know Zimmerman had a gun at that point?

Now, if that's the case, HOW DID TRAYVON BASH HIS HEAD INTO CONCRETE if zimmy was on top of him? I thought he said that Trayvon was on top of him with 8 arms choking, beating, smothering him and trying to get his gun if zimmy" LUNGED TO GET ON TOP OF HIM'?


If this was based on any kind of official statement of testimony, the prosecuting attorney should be on it like a cheap suit.

So, Trayvon is going to attack a man who has a gun actually pointed at him?

REALLY?

And if that was the case, doesn't a pointed gun seem like an imminent threat over which one might have to STAND ONE'S GROUND?

If he was really on top of Zimmerman beating on him and the gun had already been revealed, then he was defending himself.

WHERE WAS THIS UNARMED YOUNG MAN'S RIGHT TO "DEFEND HIMSELF WITH DEADLY FORCE" IF NECESSARY?

[Ecumenist]

23. EXACTLY, you see what I have been saying from the jump. NOTHING MAKES SENSE!!

[yardwork]

31. I think that Trayvon may have been shot twice, and the defense team now knows this.

Sounds like Zimmerman's new defense team has been given some evidence that requires them to change his story. Two gunshot wounds would be my guess, and at least one eyewitness reporting that he saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon.

[Ecumenist]

33. Me Too Yardwork. Me too. I remember reading two witnesses who spoke about hearing 2 SHOTS!

You suppose there were any shots to the back?

[Solomon]

41. Yep. I saw a witness say that too. The witnesses that

the media won't talk about because they're too busy reporting on non-witnesses like Zimmerman's family and friends.

[Ecumenist]

53. Tell me about it. Do you suppose he shot that boy in the back? A paper here in

northern California published a wire story back in late March/early April that Trayvon was shot in the back.

[magical thyme]

152. I read somewhere that the 1st shot missed

and the 2nd shot killed Trayvon.

[Ecumenist]

157. Wow, I wonder if the prosecution is holding that info close to the chest and

won't release that until the trial.

[magical thyme]

161. doubtless

they're not going to play their hand until the time comes.

The supposedly terrible filing and their careful handling of the bond hearing make it clear they're going to say as little as possible, as much as necessary until the actual trial.

This gives me a little hope for justice for Trayvon.

[Common Sense Party]

52. except that only one gunshot is heard on the 911 calls, and there was one bullet missing from his

gun.

[Ecumenist]

59. How do YOU know that there's only ONE bulet missing from his gun? I haven't heard

anything about the gun or ballistics. Do you have a link for that? Because I recall reading AND hearing a witness saying that they heard MORE THAN ONE BULLET SHOT!

[Common Sense Party]

64. .

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/20/gun-killed-florida-teen-was-fired-once-not-twice-crime-watch-volunteer

Also, go listen to any of the 911 calls from neighbors. On how many of them do you hear two shots?

[vaberella]

77. One of them. The one with the screams on the call. n/t

[Common Sense Party]

84. I must not have heard that. You have a link to the 911 call with 2 gunshots?

[vaberella]

91. I had posted the transcript on this site.

I heard two shots. One was clear and the other muffled. But the woman stated that she was in another room after the second shot...so that's why I figured it was muffled.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002436062

[Common Sense Party]

95. I'd love a link to the actual recording. That link doesn't take me to the recordings.

[vaberella]

144. Actually in the link I gave you I listed the link to the recording.

It seems that the Sandford site has been updated and they didn't keep it. However I found it on Huffpost. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html

It's the third listing. After the first gunshot she went upstairs.

[Common Sense Party]

97. I have listened to that three times. That is not a second gunshot, in my opinion.

I've heard plenty of gunshots.

[vaberella]

145. It's at :46 the muffled sound happens.

And I heard her say one shot then she says two. Or that's what I heard and I put in the transcript. Not to mention many reports have stated that there were two gunshots and not one while others have said one.

[yardwork]

60. And you know this how?

[vaberella]

76. That's not true...in one of the calls I heard two and the caller went from saying one to two shots.

n/t

[Common Sense Party]

98. You heard a gunshot and some other noise that was NOT a gunshot.

In townhomes like that, a gunshot wouldn't be muffled that much by going to another room.

And the police have said that he fired one bullet.

You don't have to believe the police, but I sure don't hear a second shot.

[barbtries]

35. i think he's going down.

of course i thought casey anthony was going down. i hope there will be justice this time.

[Skip Intro]

36. Couple of things -

This isn't an official statement from Zimmerman or his lawyers, this is from an unnamed source as reported by the Daily Beast.

To answer your question of how can a be true if b is also true, as I understand the scenario the Daily Beast is reporting according to its source, Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, then reached for Zimmerman's gun, at which point Zimmerman shot him, only to jump on him after Martin fell over, unaware that Martin was fatally wounded. I don't see how one rules out the other.

[Ecumenist]

39. Okay...I guess.

[Solomon]

44. Lol. You guys never cease to amaze me.

Constantly reaching for ridiculous scenarios over the most probable ones using the excuse that nobody actually saw it. Mountains of direct and circumstancial evidence be damned.

[Skip Intro]

46. Huh? Who are "you guys?"

Last edited Thu Apr 19, 2012, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

I was responding to the question asked by the OP on what the Daily Beast is reporting. Did I make some factual error in my response?

As far as keeping an open mind until the facts come out, yeah, I'm guilty of that. It amazes me that this is a position seen as radical by some DUers, and not just in regards to this case, but selectively throughout the years I've been here.

[Common Sense Party]

70. Everyone else here apparently knows EXACTLY what transpired that night

even when they live hundreds if not thousands of miles away. They know EXACTLY what Zimmerman did, why he did it, and they know the precise dimensions of his cold, dead heart.

[Skip Intro]

85. Evidently.

Things like proof, fact, fairness and due process fly out the window with some DUers.

I thought looking at both sides and withholding judgment until all the facts were in was a good thing.

[Common Sense Party]

100. Not when there's OUTRAGE to be had.....

I think it's possible that Zimmerman murdered him for no good reason. But so far, I haven't seen facts to prove that, just a LOT of conjecture and a LOT of emotion. As of right now, I'm willing to wait until the guy gets a chance to present his side of the story and the experts (voice analysis, ballistics, medical examiners, etc.) can weigh in.

I guess that makes me an racist-Zimmerman-murderer-apologist.

[Ecumenist]

107. Quite possibly yes, yes it does. It's POSSIBLE he murdered Trayvon FOR

NO GOOD REASON? Pray tell me, Kind Du'er, what reason did he have to TAKE A LOADED 9MM GUN , (HOLLOWPOINT BULLETS btw), follow him in a place HE BELONGED and shoot someone? What do you tell your children to do if someone starts to follow them and confronts them WITH.A.GUN??!!!

[Common Sense Party]

117. Did you just call me a racist?

You seriously need to dial your shit down.

[Ecumenist]

121. You asked in that last post I answered if that what you were saying made you what you stated

and I answered that quite possibly it might have. Maybe you need you think about what you're asking when you say things. Maybe you need to what what the f%ck you say in relation to a child that was murdered, how about that?

[Common Sense Party]

123. Dial your shit down. You need to think before you type.

You have gone way too fucking far.

[Ecumenist]

124. You need to think about WHAT YOU TYPE. What did you say at the end of the post in question?

I'm going to far but you are the one who made the comment NOT me. I've never used the word YOU DID!! Maybe you should have thought about it before you said what you did.

[Ecumenist]

127. Look familiar? This is summarised, of course:

"...I guess that makes me an racist-Zimmerman-murderer-apologist." Isn't that what YOU said?

[Common Sense Party]

130. Oh, I see. You were born without the ability to detect sarcasm.

So let me get this straight: I said I'm willing to hear all the facts in this case and let the accused have his day in court. Then I sarcastically say "I guess that makes me a racist...apologist". That was CLEARLY sarcasm. Because NO ONE in their right mind would reasonably think someone a racist just for believing an accused person deserves his day in court before he is drawn and quartered and declared guilty of cold-blooded murder.

And though it was CLEARLY sarcasm, what did you do? You AGREED with it.

So, you HONESTLY think that I'm a racist apologist? Because I'm willing to admit that we DON'T know all the facts and we DON'T know exactly what happened that night? Really?

[Ecumenist]

132. I don't know you and you DID NOT use the sarcasm button. I have been so disappointed

by so many people who should know better who have twisted themselves into human pretzels to try to justify Trayvon's murder. I KNOW I'm NOT a racist and I would hope that other s aren't but my personal history is different from many here.Do you know how many people have revealed themselves to be bigots since this case? It's like it was bubbling right under the surface since President Obama took office and this pushed them out of their hiding places.

I DO NOT AGREE WITH extremist groups whether they are all 4 members of the New Black Panthers or the SkinHeads. I have had DUER'S come right out with bold faced racist comments, something I never thought I would EVER hear or read HERE OF ALL PLACES.

Do you know the history of Sanford Florida? Do you know how common this is in Black America? Boy, what I could tell you. Even in my own family and the only thing that sets this apart from the norm is that the parents were able to push this into the mainstreeam and expose the ugly underbelly of America.

So YOU MAY VERY well be a decent person but when you throw out a comment like that without some follow up or sarcasm button, based on what my and many other DU'ers with brown skin have experienced in the last few weeks, I take you at your word. I was taught by my mother that when someone tells you who they are, BELIEVE them.

[Skip Intro]

111. You forgot "defender."

Wanting to hear Zimmerman's side and wait for the facts to come out before reaching a judgment makes you a racist-Zimmerman-murderer-apologist-DEFENDER."

Why can't you just rush to judgment like everybody else???

[Ecumenist]

122. Actually when it comes to what was literally said...YOU CALLED YOURSELF THAT AND i JUST AGREED

that it might possibly be true. Now what?

[cr8tvlde]

99. Six witnesses are listed on the Police Report

At least one watched from her window and was narrating the entire scenario to the dispatcher, up to and including the gunshots and who (she could id them by size only) got up from where. There were others, as well. Not one of the scenarios is ridiculuous. It is pretty cut and dried. From the first time George called the dispatcher ... then two more times he calls. Trayvon is on the phone with his girlfriend. A woman is watching and narrating from her window before and after the gunshot and then the police show up. I may be wrong, but I don't think there is any time someone is not on a phone.

[BlueToTheBone]

37. Why wasn't he covered in blood?

Trayvon was mortally wounded and must have been bleeding profusely.

[Ecumenist]

42. Blue, that is what I've been saying from the beginning. The chest is sull of BLOOD RICH AREAS-

The heart, Aorta, Lungs, Vena Cava, etc. Do they really expect folks to believe that he shot him in the chest from close range and didn't get ONE IOTA OF BLOOD ON HIS PERSON? NOT EVEN A SPOT? Oh and a belated welcome to DU BlueToTheBone!! Right glad tameetcha!

[TorchTheWitch]

138. Yes, it's entirely possible

A bullet hole is small. If he was shot in the chest even at close range it's entirely possible that no blood was being pumped out through the hole by a still beating heart. There was apparently an exit wound in his back, and that's where any blood would likely come out - in a direction away from Zimmerman. You seem to believe that every gun shot wound produces an enormous amount of blood instantly, and sorry, but that's just not so.

I don't know why you seem to think that because he was shot in the chest where all of these vital organs are located that blood would have immediately exploded out like a fountain from the small bullet wound instantly soaking passed his sweatshirt onto whoever or whatever was close to him. If Trayvon died instantly after being shot the heart would not have been continuing to pump out blood from his wounds... it's a still beating heart that would cause blood to pump out through the entrance and exit wounds and likely more through the likely larger exit wound.

Yes, it's entirely possible that Trayvon could have gotten shot in the chest where all these vital organs are located at close range to the shooter producing only a small bullet hole that did not instantly explode out blood from this small hole that was somehow not caught and absorbed by the cloth of the sweatshirt he was wearing. And if the shot caused him to die instantly or within a very few space of seconds there would have been no continually beating heart to pump out blood.

Simple physics tells us that the direction of travel of the bullet was away from the shooter thereby making an explosion of blood travel in the same direction - AWAY from the shooter - coming out of Martin's back since he was shot in the chest, and we know there was an exit wound in his back.

[Ecumenist]

141. The heart can still continue to pump and the person be dead....think about people

who get shot in head and bleed like a pig because the heart continues to pump, exsaguinating the body. Happens all the time. Your heart DOES NOT STOP right away. So, that's not necessarily the case. More problematic for zimmy is the fact that he used HOLLOW POINT BULLETS which MASSIVE DAMAGE once it enters the body, it shatters very much like a bomb that sends out shards of shrapnel. That would have cause instant catastrophic and massive internal damage. That would have resulted in HUGE GUSHES OF BLOOD!!

I know that not every bullet wound gushes blood, <<sigh>> I also know what happens to a body that has received a wound from a 9mm hollow point bullet to that area of the body. The chance that he could shoot that boy in the chest with Trayvon on top of him with a hollow point IN THE CHEST = zero chance of blood free field. Are you truly trying to get me to believe that Trayvon received a "self healing" chest wound that didn't shed so much as a drop of blood? Really? And there was no splatter at all from the initial bullet entry? Nope, not possible.

[TorchTheWitch]

143. What is it that you aren't getting here?

Yes, it is entirely possible that there would not have been a fountain of blood through the entrance wound that magically instantly bypassed the shirt he was wearing flinging it onto everything in his immediate surroundings. Any massive external bleeding had to get through a small bullet hole in the front which isn't likely going to happen instantly. Any massive amounts of blood would have needed to seep out through a small hole in the front over time. It's NOT likely that the instant he was shot that a lot of blood instantly came out through a small bullet hole wound in the direction of the shooter. That would have required an instantaneous massive sized wound. This instantly massively sized wound would also require nothing else in the way like a shirt to instantly pass through in order to splatter onto the shooter. It's just not likely that there was a wound where the bullet entered that was large in size, and we know he was wearing a shirt to catch and hold any immediate blood spurting out. It's going to take several seconds for blood to seep through the shirt to get on anything at close range which would have been time enough for Zimmerman to have flung Trayvon away from him so he could get up IF in fact he was on the ground lying prone. It's also likely that the moment of impact of the bullet that Trayvon would have straightened up or even been thrown backward.

We also know that death means the stoppage of the heart pumping, so no, had Trayvon died instantly or within a few seconds from when he was shot it stands to reason that the heart had stopped pumping because that's what death IS. Since there was nothing wrong with his head, we know that instant death wasn't because of instant brain death while the heart continued to pump.

Saying that at the instant of shooting Trayvon that Zimmerman HAD to have gotten blood on him is ludicrous, contrary to physics and the nature of small bullet wounds especially those covered by a thick sweatshirt shirt to catch any instant blood spurt. We also don't know if Zimmerman DID have a couple of small blood spots on him or not. He was wearing a dark colored shirt with a RED jacket over it, and without being able to very closely examine his clothing we DON'T KNOW whether or not he had any small spots of blood on him that was from Trayvon. There was certainly no way to tell from that ridiculous long range crappy video whether or not he had any small flecks of Trayvon's blood on him that somehow magically bypassed the shirt Trayvon was wearing in order to get there. So, YES, not only is it entire possible for Zimmerman to not have gotten any blood on him at close range to Trayvon at the moment of shooting him it's also LIKELY that he wouldn't have.

[BlueToTheBone]

160. We should be on the CSI team!

lol!
Thanks for the welcome. I've been around awhile and I've read many of your posts.

[Life Long Dem]

48. Sounds to me they left out a part.

From when they fought, and the instant he was shot. One second they are both on the ground and the next second, Trayvon is falling to the ground. Why is this? Was Trayvon walking away? This part we really don't know yet. There is one witness that says the yelling and fighting was three houses away from where Trayvon lay.

[Initech]

56. And cue the fail horn!!

Thanks for playing Zimmerman...

[Quixote1818]

66. Do you have a link? nt

[Ecumenist]

69. He ya go:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

154. Wow, that tweet/chat window is ugly...

I tried to check out a video of the mother of the 13 yr old witness. I think this must be the kid who went out to walk his dog, but the link didn't work.

[Ecumenist]

156. She's a member here, BTW. The mom, that is. eom

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

159. Do you have a link to her thread?

Has she mentioned what her son saw? I watched a video right after the news started coming out, I guess after the 911 calls were released, and the kid spoke, and showed his dog. I was impressed he wanted to get his story out there too.

[Quixote1818]

75. I think what they are saying is after Trayvon was shot he lunged on top of him

Which still sounds fishy as hell. He fucking watches the kid fall down after the shot and then jumps on top of him? How fucking strange is that?

[Ecumenist]

79. Exactly. But If you remember the original story, Trayvon was ON TOP OF zimmerman

bashing his head into the concrete, pinning his arms with his knees and supposedly trying to suffocate him at the same time, ( a 6 armed monster apparently), when somehow he saw the gun, told zimmy that "you're going to die tonight" and somehow, grew another set of arms and began to wrestle for the gun.

This STINKS to high heaven and you're right. how do you NOT KNOW that the 17 year old kid you just hot with you 9 mm loaded with HOLLOW POINT bullets is seriously injured and then added insult to injury, (LITERALLY) by "lunging" on top of them. REALLY??

This just becomes more and more horrific with each version that comes out.

[vaberella]

90. Imagine 160lbs on your back...

strange is right..

[Vattel]

81. Unless I missed something (which i often do), this OP is incorrect.

The source here is not "Zimmerman's side." And the source says that "Zimmerman told police he didn’t realize that Martin was seriously injured, and that he lunged to get on top of him after the teenager fell to the ground." So if the source is correct, then this is not a new story Zimmerman is telling about what happened, but rather a story that Zimmerman already told to the police.

[Skip Intro]

88. You didn't miss anything, and are correct.

It wasn't a statement from "Zimmerman's side," and the OP should correct that subject line, imho.

But you make an excellent point. This "new" account of what happened isn't "new" at all - but an account already given to police.

[Ecumenist]

103. If it wasn't from ZIMMERMAN'S SIDE, who the hell was it from? Who's side gave the so-called

"original" story, which is COMPLETELY contradicts what he's been saying through his proxies over every hill and dale. FRANK TAAFFE, PAPPY, HIS BROTHER AND JOE OLIVER ALL SAID THAT ZIMMERMAN TOLD THEM WHAT THEY WERE TELLING THE MEDIA! If it wasn't from zimmy and his giggling sociopaths, who gave it?

Must hurt to have to ignore all that crap that they've been spewing anywhere there was a chair, a light, microphone and camera. These are two completely different versions of what "SUPPOSEDLY" happened.

[Skip Intro]

108. Woah. You said it was a statement from Zimmerman's side. It wasn't.

It was reportedly from a law enforcement "source" for the Daily Beast who was "familiar" with the case.

It wasn't a statement from Zimmerman or his lawyers or any official spokesman for Zimmerman.

You should correct the OP subject line. This is just a report from an anonymous source, and is not a statement from a Zimmerman spokesperson as your OP subject line states.

Ask Daily Beast who their source is.

Again, I don't see where what is relayed in the Daily Beast story contradicts what I've read of what is said to be Zimmerman's account. I don't see the contradiction. I don't see where there are two versions from Zimmerman of what supposedly happened. Hell, do we even have one version from an unbiased and reliable source?

[Ecumenist]

109. WHERE'D DID THEY GET THAT STATEMENT FROM?

[Skip Intro]

113. Take a deep breath. Daily Beast says it was from

a law enforcement officer "familiar" with the case. That is their source.

How you make that out to be a "statement released" by "Zimmy's side" is beyond me.

[Ecumenist]

114. Zimmerman has been releasing statements through proxies fro the jump and you actually act as

if this is the first you've heard of him doing that. taaffe, pappy, his brother, (who he hasn't seen in 2 years by the brother's admission), joe oliver-all of them have been spreading his version of events based on WHAT HE TOLD THEM!! Are you honestly going to tell me that this is different from EVERYTHING else that's been happening ? Really? How different from what's been going on the ENTIRE length of this story's exposure to the nation's attention?

[Skip Intro]

120. I don't see how a story based on an anonymous source

(characterized as a law enforcement official not involved in but familiar with the case) can be construed as a statement released by Zimmerman.

I also think an excellent point was made by the poster uptrhead who pointed out that even if this report is accurate, the account of the event, according to the article, is not new, but something given to police some time ago.

[Ecumenist]

92. REALLY? Are you so determined to make zimmerman justified in MURDERING someone

who was MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS AND WALKING HOME that suddenly, this story which was broken in another thread is no different than the story HE RELEASED through his proxies, FRANK TAAFFE, PAPPYZIMMY, JOE OLIVER AND HIS BROTHER?? REALLY? PATHETIC, really pitiful.

[Vattel]

131. I didn't say that this story is identical to the stories told by Zimmerman's father, etc.

The lunging stuff is new, for example.

You really ought to stop villifying anyone who doesn't pretend to know whether Zimmerman committed a crime.

[Ecumenist]

134. Wow...pretend? I wonder how much pretension would you see if this child was yours?

If someone SHOOTS SN UNARMED TEENAGER WHOSE ONLY WEAPONS WERE SKITTLES, AZ TEA AND A CELL PHONE, then A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED...PERIOD. Although it's breaks my heart in particular because I am mixed black descent and has had this happen in my VERY OWN FAMILY, I would be as OUTRAGED if it were your child, Skinner's child or you.

No human being should ever fear for their lives when walking on the streets of America. Coming home to their family's home carrying candy, tea and chatting with their high school sweetheart. NEVER!! If you don't see that as a crime,forgive me what I'm about to say but there's something wrong with you.

Noone's villifying you but I'm sick of people PRETENDING that an 8 ton gorilla isn't in the room and claiming that there some REASONABLE reason for a 28 year old creep to have SHOT a 17 year old CHILD with a HOLLOW POINT 9MM SLUG!!!

Another Child has been shot in the back of the head but a nut with a gun who is trying to claim he did nothing wrong and 17 year old girl near Mobile Alabama but there's a good reason for it, I'm sure according to you. Her name was Sunny. SMDH

[Vattel]

136. Look here's where we differ.

You say "If someone SHOOTS SN UNARMED TEENAGER WHOSE ONLY WEAPONS WERE SKITTLES, AZ TEA AND A CELL PHONE, then A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED...PERIOD." Assuming you are using crime in the legal sense of the word, you are simply incorrect. Given legal definitions of self-defense, sometimes shooting an unarmed teenager is not criminal because it meets the requirements for justifiable defense. That's just a fact. I don't know whether Zimmerman's actions met those requirements--I suspect not, but I really don't know. I do not, by the way, believe that he had a good reason for killing Martin. I would be shocked if Zimmerman's actions were morally justifiable.

[Ecumenist]

139. Let me see if I understand what you're actually saying...zimmy the giggling psychopath

sees a young boy WALKING home, (minding his own BLOODY BUSINESS) and decides that (like the 9 YEAR OLD CHILD HE CALLED ABOUT THE PRECEDING SUMMER, who happened to playing in his OWN driveway but happened to be black), decides he's "Suspicious" follows him, starts an altercation, pulls a gun HE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAVE BEEN CARRYING IF HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH, ( but we all know that wasn't the case, It wasn't even registered and it would HAVE TO BE to be a N.W. program) and shoot that <<17YEAR OLD CHILD>> when that child fought for his life. Yes, that's justifiable. Of course. Even the originator of that SYG law in Florida and jebby, the disaster who signed it into law said IT DID NOT APPLY TO THIS CASE!!


So, of course, by your convoluted reasoning, there was no legally definable crime.

[Vattel]

150. You obviously don't understand what I am saying.

According to you, "by your convoluted reasoning, there was no legally definable crime." But what I said is that I don't know whether there was a crime. Why do you deliberately misrepresent what I am saying? It makes it difficult to have a civil conversation with you.

[vaberella]

93. Which, if true, doesn't jive well with any of the other stories from Zimmerman's camp. n/t

[Ecumenist]

96. Thank you Vaberella. Vattel seems to believe that this is the same story that we have been hearing

from their camp. This is completely contradictory to what we were hearing for weeks from their side, who supposedly got their versions from zimmy by their own admission. It's so pathetic that people just can't believe that this guy's a f*cking liar and he MURDERED A CHILD WHO WAS MINDING HIS OWN DAMN BUSINESS. It pisses me off to no end.

[Vattel]

119. Huh? I agree with you that we haven't seen this reported in the media before.

My point was that it is not a report of something Zimmerman is now saying as opposed to what he said earlier. It is a report of something he originally said to the police.

[cr8tvlde]

102. One thing that I read in the Police Report was

that when officers arrived, they had to turn him over to provide CPR which would seem to indicate he was face down. Also, it took place about 4 feet from the sidewalk on the grass.

The eye witness indicated the shot was while both were down...and only one got up...which would possibly indicate a close range shot, perhaps after he had tackled him from behind. She indicated one shot. The witness begins at hearing the arguing which draws her to her back door so Trayvon is alive at that time, then the screaming for help, the shot and the big one gets up and walks around.

[Ecumenist]

105. Yeah, I remember that and yes,he was face down. According to this latest "leak", Trayvon was shot

fell FACE FIRST into the ground and them the lying, murdering slob "lunged" on top of him.

[pokerfan]

104. Don't forget shaking

Remember one of his previous lawyers said that Martin was shaking him to the point that Zimmy thought he was going develop Shaken Baby Syndrome.

[Ecumenist]

106. Exactly, Which I why said that this story COMPLETELY contradicts was zimmy's proxies

have been spewing all over every network they could. Some posters here seem to believe that there is nothing new about this latest story, that this is just the same thing that he told the police.

[cr8tvlde]

115. Seems the Complications of this case may slow down the SYG

movement and it is requiring at least Florida to do some soul-searching. A couple of states have put it on hold. There are civil issues here as this can spill over into lawsuits (homeowner's assn), someone gets shot after drinking (the bar), civil litigation for damages.

As this unfolds, I'm thinking the police are not going to be liking this much either, as it gets in their way at the very least, and creates a nightmare scenario at best. Think of all the taxpayer money that has gone into this and the normal work law enforcement needs to do and will either cost us more taxpayer money to hire more cops as the gun nuts like Nugent and Sarah getting the rabble roused and flexing their newfound vigilante-ism. (not to include responsible gun owners) It's a boon for the media and the NRA and gun merchants.

Soon we'll have all races, genders carrying, itchy trigger fingers, domestic situations, neighborhood spats, sports events, campers in the woods, people drunk or just pissed off at someone...the list goes on. Will it just be who is the best shot left standing?

We're headed back to the OK Corral.

[Ecumenist]

116. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! It's already happening in other states where CRIMINALS, (gangsters and drug

dealers) have murdered someone in cold blood and invoked SYG. I know it's happened in AZ. I hope that this not only stops spreading to the rest of the states BUT rolls back and get's repealed in most, if not all the states it's in now.

[SlipperySlope]

142. I don't think this was a "release" from "Zimmerman's Side"

Reading the article, it appears it was a leak given to an reporter who isn't sympathetic to Zimmerman's claims. I don't think it is accurate to say this was leaked by Zimmerman's side.

[Hubert Flottz]

147. What I don't understand is why Murder2?

The guy chased the kid down and shot him.

Edit...Oh I forgot Zimmerman's dad was the judge.

[KurtNYC]

149. also Martin is found face DOWN when police arrive

If GZ shot him in the back then it has to be murder in the 2nd degree.