Should the words "tar baby" be left in the past

[joeglow3]

Bachmann was the latest Republican to use this phrase:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75351.html

[karynnj]

1. Because of the racial background, yes - though it is unfortunate

because it is otherwise a very good metaphor for something that once you touch it, you can't easily get away from it. ( Saying Iraq would be a "tar baby" in 2002 would have been a very accurate and non racist use)

[TexasProgresive]

2. I first heard the story as a child

an never once thought it had a racial overtone.

Perhaps if one thought of African Americans as the "white man's burden." But I think that's a stretch. The only thing the "tar baby" has in common with African Americans is that both are black-but the former is sticky and inanimate while the latter are live people.

I hate it when people ruin a good metaphor by turning it into something unrelated.

[Brickbat]

4. I'm the same way and I totally agree.

I find it hard to see it as a racist phrase.

[RebelOne]

20. Yes, I heard the term as a child also.

And at that time, racism was rampant, so I never thought anything of it.

[uponit7771]

5. Are you saying that the term isn't a racial slur for blacks? Thx in advance

[Brickbat]

7. The only context I've ever heard it used is as a metaphor for a quagmire, with the later metaphor of

the briar patch, or a solution out of the quagmire, sometimes included and sometimes not.

ETA: It certainly sounds like it could be a racial slur, and I think some people use it to dogwhistle, like using the word "niggardly" in its correct context but knowing people will get outraged about it.

[uponit7771]

9. Do you feel that because you only heard it in that context that it does not make it a racial slur?

Thx in advance for your perspective

[Brickbat]

10. Of course not. On the other hand, I do a lot of work that tends to keep me up on such things, and

have come to understand, as I mentioned above, that many people object to it because it sounds racist, and that some people will use it precisely because it sounds racist. I think arguing whether that makes it racist or not is not productive, and that people can examine the motives of people who use the term and come to their own conclusions.

[DefenseLawyer]

12. I have heard racists use "gorilla" as a racial slur

Should we ban the word gorilla when referring to big primates?

[uponit7771]

15. Only if Gorilla was used prominently to describe a race of people or culture

[DefenseLawyer]

25. So if for whatever reason "gorilla" were to become the racial slur of choice

among racists, you would advocate changing the name of gorillas? I'm not sure I can go with you on that. How about we just condemn racists who use racial slurs?

[DefenseLawyer]

8. The term was co-opted by racists

but like most things, I think context would dictate its appropriateness. I think it would be better to say "Should racial slurs be left in the past?" Yes. And referring to a black person as a "tar baby" is obviously a slur. But as was said here, there is nothing racist about referring to Iraq as a tar-baby. Of course it's always easier to ban than to think.

[Atypical Liberal]

22. Me too. I never thought it was racist.

And I still don't.

The story is about a trap set for Brer Rabbit - a doll made of straw and covered in sticky black tar. The rabbit touches the tar and gets stuck.

The only connection I can see is that the tar is black. I don't understand how this is taken to be racist, unless it is racist to talk about anything colored black.

[SwampG8r]

6. many of the stories in the brer rabbitt/uncle remus

series go all the way back to africa
i can see how the way they were used in western culture is objectionable
but these stories came on the same boats as the slaves that told them
it would be a shame to lose that wisdom
carefully refined over generations
and whose lessons are still so valid
over a cartoon made by a nazi sympathizer

[KamaAina]

18. Indeed

Note that the term had become archaic by January 2009, then all of a sudden experienced a mysterious revival of sorts. Hmmm....

[Yo_Mama]

26. I never associated the word "tarbaby" with being black

Various "tar baby" legends and stories stem from around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

If it does have a racial connotation to us, it derives from ignorance only. There's an African form, a number of American Indian forms (in which I first encountered the story), and, according to Wikipedia, even a Buddhist story. We have to be careful before we sacrifice so much cultural wisdom to the most debased portions of our own culture.

[uponit7771]

3. Because it's the snooty word for n***er then yes

[aquart]

13. No, it isn't.

Keep up with the goddamn language.

A tar baby is another form of hot potato, not a person of ancient African origin.

No phrase should be banned because of mental slovenliness.

[uponit7771]

16. this is false, what part of the country do you live in?!

[SATIRical]

27. I don't know about aquart, but I live in the part that knows what a dictionary is

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tar%20baby

Definition of TAR BABY

: something from which it is nearly impossible to extricate oneself

[frylock]

23. what about the word spook?

[jberryhill]

30. Waning in application to spies or detectives...

...because of unintended collateral meanings.

[aquart]

11. NO.

But be sure to dump it on the same pile as Huckleberry Finn on your way out the righteousness door.

[onenote]

14. And what would you propose be done with Toni Morrison's novel with that title?

See, the problem with leaving words behind is that they often have multiple meanings.

[uponit7771]

17. The same thing we've done with the Hindu peace symbol?

[Brickbat]

19. Leave it?

That's what a school that my son attended does when someone points out the swastikas in the tilework, as someone does every few years. Because the tiles had been laid in the late 1920s, have cultural significance to many people, and are beautiful, they are left. The conversation always includes people from a wide variety of perspectives and backgrounds. I always find it interesting when it comes up.

[CBGLuthier]

21. Only if someone is too ignorant to understand the word

Not a fucking thing racist about it. It also is basically an ancient african folk tale about Anansi.


To catch the dwarf he made a doll and covered it with sticky gum. He placed the doll under the odum tree where the dwarfs play and put some yam in a bowl in front of it. When the dwarf came and ate the yam she thanked the doll which of course did not reply. Annoyed at its bad manners she struck it, first with one hand then the other. The hands stuck and Ananse captured her.

[Zalatix]

24. Should a bear shit in the woods and not in my bedroom?

Should the sun rise in the morning?

Should there be fish in the ocean?

Is Bachmann a total flaming nutjob idiot?

[slackmaster]

28. No. It's a classic and significant metaphor; an important piece of American literature.

ETA - And it's a trap!

[madinmaryland]

29. Well how about this toon...

[slackmaster]

31. That's funny. Pat Oliphant obviously understands the metaphor better than some of our fellow DUers.