"We just can't trust the American people to make (healthcare related) choices" - Hillary Clinton

[joshcryer]

This will be used against her in a Gruber-esque way.

Of course, as Snopes found, it was said in reference to Health Savings Accounts: http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/hildabeast.asp



edit for the full exchange (this btw is a neocon talking going by some peoples opinion of her):

I mentioned ... to the first lady about medical savings accounts and just right away she said, "We can't do that." And I said, "Well, why?" And she said, "Well, there's two reasons." And I said, "Well, what are they?"

And she said "The first reason is with the medical savings account, people have to act on their own and make their own decisions about health care. And they have to make sure that they get the inoculations and the preventative care that they need, and we just think that people will skip too much because in a medical savings account if you don't spend it, you get to keep it or you can ... accumulate it in a health care account. We just think people will be too focused on saving money and they won't get the care for their children and themselves that they need. We think the government, by saying, 'You have to make this schedule. You have to have your kids in for inoculations here, you have to do a prescreening here, you have to do this' — the government will make better decisions than the people will make, and people will be healthier because of it."

I said, "Well, part of that's an education process. People have to understand that (if) they behave in a certain way, they're going to save money, (with the) preventive medicine issue — you get the prescreenings, if you can inoculate your kids you save money on it. I mean, they're not sick. You save money." She said, "No. We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices ... Government has to make those choices for people."

[JI7]

1. hildabeast ?

[joshcryer]

2. That's the Snopes title of the fake spam.

They are not calling her that. That's the email that circulates of fake quotes attributed to her. Of the true quotes they're almost always taken out of context.

[RB TexLa]

3. She was wrong on that. Those of use who have HSA use health care a lot less than others

who over use health care and drive up costs. We call and force facilities to provide prices before choosing where to purchase health care from.

[joshcryer]

4. That was actually her point.

She explicitly said that people who use HSA's will favor savings over health care.

HSA's can't cover everyone.

[RB TexLa]

5. They aren't intented to cover everyone.

They are for those who want the savings aspect and want to pay less toward premiums. I'd rather pay the bulk of my health care cost into a savings and investment account that grows tax free for my health care costs and pay less toward covering the people who run to the doctor every time something hurts on them or every year to have another baby at $30k or $20k without even asking about the cost.

As the doctors and health care facilities like to tell them "don't worry it doesn't cost you anything, your insurance covers it." And they don't even think about the fact that is part of what drives up their insurance cost.

[pampango]

6. That could be considered an argument for single payer or a national health care service.

We use the same logic to protect Social Security from privatization. It's not so much that every American is too stupid to make smart investment decisions, but that there is a societal benefit from providing a certain amount of retirement (and health) security. Health care options can be as confusing and hard to figure out as investment options are. That does not mean that a person who wants and can afford to can have other investment and health care options but a basic level of security is in everyone's interest.

[Nay]

7. She's absolutely correct on that. Now, there are people who think that others

who chose to save their HSA for Christmas presents, for example, SHOULD suffer (and their children should suffer) the consequences of not going to the doctor unless an emergency occurs. Often the emergency occurs because ongoing symptoms were not attended to in their early stages for fear of spending money.

What she's saying is that we can't depend on people to take the long view. She's right! We can't! We see it over and over in everything. So, if you are a conscientious politician, you design systems that can't be gamed by anyone, not even the recipient of healthcare. It's simply a matter of recognizing the cognitive limits of most people. Republicans and libertarians, of course, think this is horrible -- it makes you less free. What the Rs and Ls like about everyone being "free" is that it makes others very susceptible to their moneymaking schemes, whether it's health insurance, loans on your mortgage, etc.

We "force" children to go to school until they are 16, whether their parents want it or not, because it is in the best interest of the child (whether he is interested in school or not) and the best interest of the society. And because we know that there is more than one parent out there who'll keep the kids at home just to put them to work/abuse them/etc. Limiting health care schemes that depend on the goodwill or intelligence of the public is pretty smart.

Finally, ask Canadians, the French, etc., whether a decent healthcare system makes them feel like slaves. It's just incredible how the American public has been fed a bunch of lies, and the fact that they swallow them is the exact reason Hillary's statement is correct.