Putin hoped to get Merkel and Germany on his side in the Ukraine crisis. That hope is over

[stevenleser]

Merkel and Germany have had enough of Putin. What's startling is how significantly the relationship between Germany and Russia, Merkel and Putin has changed. When you read this article immediately below, its hard to imagine that just nine months ago they were enjoying friendly relations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014946280

Nov 17 (Today) - Russia could seek to destabilise vast areas of eastern Europe if it is not challenged in Ukraine, Angela Merkel warned on Monday.

The strongly worded statement came as Ukraine's president warned of a resumption of "total war" in the strife-torn country's east.

In a speech to Sydney's Lowry Institute for International Policy Studies, the German Chancellor said Russia's annexation of Crimea and subsequent destabilisation of eastern Ukraine "called the whole of the European peaceful order into question".

"This isn't just about Ukraine," she said. "This is about Moldova, this is about Georgia, and if this continues then one will have to ask about Serbia and one will have to ask about the countries of the Western Balkans."

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11236622/Angela-Merkel-warns-Russia-could-seek-to-destabilise-whole-of-the-European-peaceful-order.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note from two articles from severla months ago how the status of the relationship and Merkel's statements have changed since the beginning of the crisis. She was thought of as the "Chief Mediator", but Putin's behavior has put Merkel against him.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-merkel-putin-insight-idUSBREA260E120140307

March 7 - (Reuters) - After one of her first encounters with Vladimir Putin in 2002, Angela Merkel joked to aides that she had passed the "KGB test" by staring straight into his eyes without averting her gaze.

Unlike presidents in Washington - George W. Bush claimed to have gotten a glimpse of Putin's soul and Barack Obama promised to "reset" relations with Russia - the German chancellor has never harbored any illusions about the former Soviet agent, nor hopes that she might change him.

It is this hard-nosed realism, born of Merkel's own experience growing up in a Soviet garrison town in East Germany and reinforced over a turbulent 14-year relationship with Putin, that has earned her respect in the Kremlin and thrust her into the potentially risky role of chief mediator in the Ukraine crisis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/10803349/Ukraine-crisis-what-is-the-relationship-between-Angela-Merkel-and-Vladimir-Putin.html

May 2 - Teneo Intelligence's Carsten Nickel has discussed the relationship between German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir in light of the Ukraine crisis.

He said that Germany has" "economic interests in maintain ties with Russia if you think of the energy challenge in Germany.

"It puts every German government...in a position where they will have to work towards mediation".

[11 Bravo]

1. The Putin-fluffers will be along directly, replete with RT articles ...

to show you the error of your ways.

[stevenleser]

2. I would be interested to hear how they would characterize the relationship between Putin and Merkel

a plethora of recent statements by her make it clear she is sick and tired of Putin. If they try to make the opposite case they are really going to appear silly.

[11 Bravo]

3. Agreed, but appearing silly has not hindered them heretofore.

And so it goes.

[stevenleser]

4. True, but in those instances, they fell back on covert/spy/conspiracy theory stuff.

The beauty of those kinds of theories are that they are virtually impossible to disprove.

It's pretty hard to spin Merkel's statements of the last two months as anything other than being completely fed up with Putin.

[CJCRANE]

5. Well, Merkel is an actual conservative, a RWer.

It's no surprise that she would go along with a neocon policy.

[joeybee12]

6. Yeah, while Putin is busy planting daisies in rifles...

He's just swell.

[CJCRANE]

7. No, he's a bad guy. Just like Saddam was, and Gadaffi, and Assad.

But I don't agree with neocon policies that put even worse people in their places and destablilize whole regions.

[joeybee12]

10. Didn't happen....

teh destabilization came from a country trying to become open after years of communism, they've been poor and unstable for a long time...scum Putin knows it and is taking advantage of it.

[CJCRANE]

13. And what happens when we take this "scum" down?

[joeybee12]

23. We're not taking him down...he just needs to stay the phuck

out of a sovreign country where the VAST majority of people don't want him there.

[Alittleliberal]

61. After years of state capitalism

Communist Russia was not communist... I know it's a crazy concept but words have meanings.

[Tarheel_Dem]

8. Yeah, and Putin is a liberal lion!!!

[CJCRANE]

9. See my post above. What happened when we removed Saddam and Gadaffi?

Chaos and worse people filling the vacuum.

[Tarheel_Dem]

11. Well, we can all thank the heavens that it's not up to you.

[CJCRANE]

15. The Iraq invasion, Syria and Libya interventions weren't up to me either.

[Tarheel_Dem]

20. As it should be.

[CJCRANE]

26. I never suggested it should be. But I was more accurate about the Iraq invasion than the "experts"

and the "enhanced interrogations" and the "austerity" and all the rest of it (just like many, many others).

I am for democracy for every one to get their view across. It's only when we all get our voices heard that the politicians will make sensible decisions.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. How many more countries must Pooty Poot invade before you assign blame to him & not the US?

[CJCRANE]

31. Do you really think he's going to invade other countries

when the whole of NATO is itching to take him on?

It's the same story we were fed about Saddam and Iran.

They are mad, nutters, we must do something.

Bush and Blair were itching for Saddam to put a foot wrong so they could take him on (see the Downing Street Memo). He didn't but they took him down anyway.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. I didn't think he'd invade Crimea, but I don't have your crystal ball.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

43. "I didn't think he'd invade Crimea, but I don't have your crystal ball."

I sure hope he kept the receipt.

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. +1

[stevenleser]

12. That would imply she is going along with Putin, since Putin is the Russian version of a neocon.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/vladimir-putin-russian-neocon/284602/

Vladimir Putin, Russian Neocon
How Russia's president resembles the American hawks who hate him most.
PETER BEINARTMAR 24 2014, 10:22 AM ET
------------------------

http://buchanan.org/blog/putin-one-us-6071
Is Putin One of Us?
Patrick Buchanan - Tuesday - December 17, 2013 at 1:37 am
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conservatives here in the US hate Putin out of a sense of nationalism. But they clearly admire much about him, his nationalism, what they perceive as a strong, militaristic foreign policy and his social conservatism to include bigotry against LGBT.

He is Russia's version of a neocon. And that is what Merkel and the rest of Europe is rejecting.

Too bad you can't see it.

[CJCRANE]

14. I can see what they're doing very clearly. I was against the Iraq invasion. I was in the minority.

I was for the Libya project but now I regret it.

Saddam and Gadaffi were very bad guys. That doesn't mean I support them or that I'm a Ba'athist or Stalinist just because I disagree with the neocon policy of taking them down.

[stevenleser]

17. I was against the Iraq invasion as well, but not out of a sense of negative nationalism

like it seems informed your opinion.

I was against the Iraq war because I am against unprovoked wars of aggression. And that is why I am against Russia and Putins actions in Ukraine.

[CJCRANE]

19. I agree but I don't think our side are honest brokers acting in good faith.

We're probably not going to agree on this.

I have no influence on this except expressing my opinion.

Either the Russian economy will be taken down and Putin forced out, or they'll figure out a way to survive without the west.

We'll see what happens. We in the west will probably get our way.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. It doesn't matter what kind of "broker our side" is. Unless you don't believe any news source other

than RT, the world knows exactly what Putin's doing. One would have to be deaf, dumb & blind not to, or choose to be willfully ignorant of the facts.

[CJCRANE]

27. Neither you nor I speak for the world. We have a difference of opinion

as do many others.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. The world, with the exception of you & a few others, has spoken.

Russia’s Global Image Negative amid Crisis in Ukraine
Americans’ and Europeans’ Views Sour Dramatically

As the European Union considers further sanctions on Russia for its role in the standoff in Ukraine, Russia is broadly unpopular in many countries around the globe and increasingly disliked in Europe and the United States. President Vladimir Putin’s leadership also continues to inspire little confidence worldwide, according to a new Pew Research Center survey. The former Cold War power’s negative global image contradicts Russians’ expectations that Putin’s actions in Ukraine would improve their country’s international reputation.1

And while Putin expresses concerns about Russian minorities’ rights in Ukraine, the world gives Moscow poor marks on its record of respecting its own citizens’ personal freedoms.



Russia Increasingly Unpopular

Across the 44 countries surveyed, a median percentage of 43% have unfavorable opinions of Russia, compared with 34% who are positive.

Negative ratings of Russia have increased significantly since 2013 in 20 of the 36 countries surveyed in both years, decreased in six and stayed relatively similar in the remaining 10.

Americans and Europeans in particular have soured on Russia over the past 12 months. More than six-in-ten in Poland, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, the U.S. and the UK have an unfavorable image of Russia. And in all but one of these countries negative reviews are up by double digits since last year, including by 29 percentage points in the U.S., 27 points in Poland, 24 points in the UK and 23 points in Spain. Greeks stand out among their European counterparts – just 35% dislike Russia, virtually unchanged from last year.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/09/russias-global-image-negative-amid-crisis-in-ukraine/

This was in July, I imagine it has only continued to drop since then.

[CJCRANE]

36. Your own graph shows something different. Anyway, let's hope he gets ousted and see what happens. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. Yeah, "let's hope".

[former9thward]

32. People in the U.S. have odd definitions of the world.

The world's two biggest population countries, China and India have sided with Putin. The West is more or less united against Putin but that is not the world.

[stevenleser]

45. You think two out of around two hundred countries makes your point?

Each country has an agenda. It's not like you are trying to get proportional representation for a legislature.

Just because China and India have more population than Liechtenstein and Costa Rica doesnt make their opinion more valid.

[former9thward]

50. Well our State Department would disagree with you.

They listen and react to countries like China and India far more than Liechtenstein and Costa Rica. As does the UN. That is why countries like Liechtenstein are not permanent members of the Security Council. Everything is not equal. Sorry...

[stevenleser]

51. Really? I have a contact over there. Should I ask them? I bet they will disagree. nt

[former9thward]

53. Sure, ask your "contact".

I am sure the reported response will be completely objective...

[stevenleser]

55. It's the standard press contact. I can forward you the email and you can call to verify

still want to go ahead?

[former9thward]

62. Yes.

Lets see if the State Department says Costa Rica and China have the same weight in the world. BTW that of course would mean the ambassador to China has the same political weight as the ambassador to Costa Rica.

[LanternWaste]

64. More accurately, the governments of the world's two most populated countries...

"The world's two biggest population countries, China and India have sided with..."

More accurately, the governments of the world's two most populated countries, regardless of the will of the populations themselves.

[former9thward]

65. That same argument can be made about every country.

I am unaware that we can find out the views of every person in a country on a particular subject. Have the people of the "world" voted on what they think of the Ukraine situation?

[CJCRANE]

34. FWIW I'm not saying this because I'm againt President Obama (which seems to be the implication).

I followed his foreign policy very carefully in the last couple of years and thought he was doing some brave things but there was a sudden flip and it changed quite rapidly.

I thought that he was genuinely trying to work with Russia to solve a lot of the world's security problems and I supported him in that effort. I just feel like there's been a bait and switch and a return to neocon rhetoric. I might be wrong in my impression. Things are still playing out.

[Tarheel_Dem]

37. The subject of this thread is Angela Merkel. Please try & keep up.

[CJCRANE]

38. Implication. Look it up. I have a feeling this subthread has turned into a get the last word in fest

[yeoman6987]

52. Lol. RWer? I doubt it ecpecially compare to an

American RWer.

[stevenleser]

56. I was going to point that out. Merkel is to the left of many Democrats IMHO. nt

[yeoman6987]

57. Yes! You are 100 percent correct!

[Odin2005]

58. German conservatives are to the LEFT of US Democrats.

[Comrade Grumpy]

30. This sort of post helps make DU suck.

Insulting invective like that seems more appropriate for newspaper comments sections.

[stevenleser]

49. I think being right is a universal defense to "making DU suck" much like it is with libel/slander

and in this case, that poster is right.

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. Too late!

[CJCRANE]

16. I have a different opinion. I am not a Putinista, a Saddam-lover or a neocon.

Because I'm against a certain policy does not mean that I am *for* the person that policy is directed against.

[stevenleser]

18. You haven't voiced a different opinion. A different opinion would be that Merkel is on Putin's side

You have come up with an alternate theory of 'why' but it would still mean that Merkel is against Putin.

[CJCRANE]

21. I do not think our side are acting in good faith. I think they have a prearranged agenda.

I have no influence on it, except to make myself mildly unpopular with those who hold the mainstream opinion.

Being a DUer, I was used to that during the Bush era, so I'll take my lumps.

[Odin2005]

59. No, you are just a stereotypical Hate-America-Firster.

[zappaman]

22. Pffft!

I will wait to see what RT and Robert Parry have to say.

[stevenleser]

24. LOL!

[KittyWampus]

29. I find it very hard to believe Putin EVER expected to get Merkel/Germany's support.

Merkel may be conservative but she's no reactionary and not stupid.

[northoftheborder]

41. I'm seriously wondering if Putin is suffering from some sort of brain disfunction, perhaps dementia.

How old is he? The things he is doing and threatening to do do not make good sense, from anybody's standpoint.

[stevenleser]

47. It makes sense under one limited context. His popularity level was plummeting in Russia.

It wasn't getting low by US standards, but it had fallen from around 70-80% to around 50-60%.

I really think that is at least half of the "why". Putin knew that humanity had not evolved beyond a successful war of conquest boosting your popularity at home.

Now, it's stupid overall, I agree. But I think Putin miscalculated the response. I think I remember seeing articles to that effect back in March and April. He expected a few weeks of complaining and then life would go on as normal.

[DonCoquixote]

42. cue the rt crew

Talking about how Russia can conquer Germany, and that east Berlin will be happy to have worker's paradise again

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. If anybody can spot a rat bastard fomenting crises to facilitate land grabs --

it'd be the Germans.

Thankfully they're better people now and work against such things.

[stevenleser]

48. And that may be the best response to my OP among many very good ones.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

54. Why sir, I blush. nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

60. You mean she wasn't impressed with his massive pecs?