Alaska Town Right To Tax Churches

[Bandit]

Alaska town is right to tax churches

In Alaska, the Nome City Council is moving forward with a plan to end tax exemptions for churches, making it the first American town to tax the church.

With the city budget projected to run a deficit, the Nome City Council spent a one-hour work session last Monday looking at ways to increase tax revenue. After much debate, the council agreed to move forward with a draft ordinance removing sales tax exemptions from nonprofits and churches.

City Finance Director Julie Liew estimates the move could bring in about $300,000 a year for the small city of about 3,800 people.
<snip>
Estimates vary, but studies show exempting religion from taxes in America costs the taxpayers between $71 billion and $83.5 billion a year, according to the New Civil Rights Movement. For comparison, America’s food stamp program costs about $75-80 billion a year.

http://www.adn.com/article/20141117/alaska-town-right-tax-churches

[former9thward]

1. It is a town of 3,800.

What could churches be selling in a town of 3,800 that would bring in $300,000 in sales tax? The math does not add up.

[Bandit]

2. I think there is property tax involved as well

It is a start.

[former9thward]

3. The link says sales taxes.

After much debate, the council agreed to move forward with a draft ordinance removing sales tax exemptions from nonprofits and churches.

The rest of the article talks in general terms about taxes on churches in the U.S. and cost estimates but it only says sales taxes for this town.

Also even if assuming property taxes were involved how much could that raise? What could the property tax be in a town of 3,800? How many churches could there be in a town of 3,800? The math makes no sense.

[jwirr]

9. I think this is justified but not necessarily enforcible. Won't they just go to another town to buy

things?

[former9thward]

11. Well that's what I did when I lived in Chicago.

Jump across the IL/IN border to Hammond or other towns where it was much cheaper. Of course this is Alaska so I don't know how far the nearest town is...

[Bandit]

22. Try looking at a map of Alaska

There is no road system around Nome nor is there any other town even near. I guess they could get their dogsleds going and head to Anchorage, it's only a thousand miles away.

[jwirr]

30. Then they will pay the taxes.

[bravenak]

26. No.

There is no way to do that.

[joeglow3]

12. But, what percentage does a city get? 1%? Most of your sales tax goes to the state.

Are they really claiming the churches in a town of 3,800 are spending $15-30 MILLION a year? Based on that math, I am guessing there are bigger issues leading to the financial state of the town.

[Bandit]

19. Alaska does not have a State sales Tax.

Nor does it have an Income Tax.

[belzabubba333]

39. it's more of the war on the poor

[notrightatall]

4. They are not selling, they are buying with out paying the sales tax.

[former9thward]

7. Buying what that would raise $300,000?

Assuming a 5% sales tax that means they are buying $6,000,000 worth of stuff a year. What are they buying that would cost that much in town of 3,800? It makes no sense. I doubt a church would buy more than $1,000 dollars a year if that.

[notrightatall]

8. 15 churches in Nome. Everything taxed at 5%.

not so far fetched. (Fuel, electricity, food, clothing, services.) all adds up pretty quick.

[former9thward]

10. No it does not add up.

Taxation at 5% means sales of $6,000,000. Divide that by 15 means they are buying $400,000 of stuff for each one. 15 churches in a town of 3,800 means at most they have about 100 members each. That would mean each member of a church is contributing $4,000 a year to buy stuff. What food and clothing?? It is pure nonsense.

[joeglow3]

13. Also, vast majority of sales tax goes to the state.

[Bandit]

20. False

[joeglow3]

21. You're right. So their math says churches are only spending $6M year.

[notrightatall]

14. They are really talking about 40 orgs. Not 15, and the Nome census area has about 10,000 people.

http://www.allvoices.com/article/100002384

Adds up just fine.

[former9thward]

16. How can the town impose taxes outside their boundries?

And who are these "40 organizations"? What are they buying that adds up to $6 million a year. It is BS.

[notrightatall]

24. The "Taxing authority" is the "Nome Census area" that's how.

[former9thward]

29. Where in the world are you getting that?

[roguevalley]

59. my borough, the kenai peninsular borough is our

taxing authority. The school district it serves is the size of the state of Oregon. Even though there are many towns and villages around the major urban areas like Barrow, Bethel and Nome, they have authority to the bush towns because they supply services, etc. We are strange up here but imagine your state having the area of texas and California but 700 miles of road. you get the idea. Even our capital, Juneau must be reached by boat or plane. those wankers can't be reached by road.

[Bandit]

62. Juneau must be reached by boat or plane. those wankers can't be reached by road.

Thank goodness.

[roguevalley]

63. For them. :D:D:D I would strangle them if I

could. I have a friend who was a legislative aid and the amount of boozing, drugs and sleeping around by legislators blew my mind. We did however just get rid of our half witted pug governor. YAY! Go, us. I don't really know what to say about the Nome thing but I know that everyone should pay. The corporations up here do what oil companies do everywhere. Come into a state, buy everyone off, stink the place up and cry poor. I hope they live long enough to be sorry.

[valerief]

36. Don't all churches have big portfolios in hedge funds? nt

[former9thward]

43. The Catholic Diocese in New York may.

I am not so sure about Nome...

[roguevalley]

58. Considering the average heating bill in the bush is

about 2400$ a month, revise your calculations. Everything in Nome, Bethel and everywhere else is astronomical. I don't particularly care that the math doesn't work out. I am glad they are taking the step. No more free rides for anyone. That includes churches. (I am Christian and was raised that way, though I am branching out into a less rigid world view. This has nothing to do with thoughts of theology. It has everything to do with equality. I also live here. You can't get to Nome, a place with nothing to break the view to the horizon in all directions except by boat or plane. We only have about 700 miles of road for a state two and a half times bigger than Texas.)

[former9thward]

65. So you are good with taxing food banks, etc.

Drive them out of business, if possible. Got it...

[Bandit]

66. How many "food banks" do you think there are in Nome?

You need to learn a little about things if you wish to talk about them. Do you even know what a subsistence community is?

[former9thward]

70. Ok, you tell me...

What are all these non-profits in a town of 3,800 people?

[Bandit]

73. Here check it out and count all the food banks

http://www.charityblossom.org/directory/AK/Nome/?page=1

[former9thward]

74. Thanks for making my point.

Yeah, those are all the organizations that are spending $6 million a year buying stuff. Right ...

[roguevalley]

77. thanks for tell me what I think. How did I get by without you. I want EVERYONE taxed.

In a world where everyone pays taxes, I think food banks will be a quaint dream. The oil companies up here steal us blind and leave our people in this condition. If they did, then there would not be a need for food banks. If you saw me having no feelings about groups that assist you don't know me at all. But thanks anyway.

[yeoman6987]

75. I hope this will this will hit non profit companies too

Nobody should get a pass. Non profit companies can be the worst.

[Savannahmann]

18. Don't sweat it.

Math is really hard for some people. They're just happy to see the Churches taxed. They don't care if the math doesn't add up.

[randys1]

76. Not taxing churches is a huge mistake, HUGE

[Curmudgeoness]

27. Sales tax exemptions are not only about what is sold by the churches.

It is also about what they buy. Churches don't have to pay sales tax on any purchases, but they will now have to in Nome.

[former9thward]

31. If you read the link it is not in force yet.

It has not passed. I pointed out the math does not add up when you consider buying. 15 churches in a small town do not buy $6 million a year in stuff. That is nonsense. They might buy about $1,000 a year in stuff each -- if that.

[Bandit]

35. Use your "math" to buy a dozen eggs in Nome or a gallon of gas.

[former9thward]

41. Fine, accept the word of some bureaucrat who comes up with a

figure out of thin air. A nice round one at that. You tell me what are all the things a small church of 50 -100 members is buying that adds up to $400,000 a year.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

51. It's not just churches

It's other non-profits as well.

[former9thward]

64. Yeah, like food banks.

Tax them to hell!, Right? What "non-profits" are in a town of 3,800?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

67. No need to get pissy with me, I didn't pass the law

But they can't tax churches and not other non-profits.

[former9thward]

71. Nobody has passed the law yet...

I started posting in this thread because I questioned the $300,000 a year revenue claim being made. The math did not add up. No way could churches be buying that amount. Then people starting saying "non-profits". In a town of 3,800. Who are all these non-profits in a small town of 3,800 that are buying $6,000,000 worth of goods?

[Curmudgeoness]

44. I did see the link

and was correcting the statement that churches would have to "sell" a lot to generate that much in sales taxes.

But it is not just churches that they are talking about, it is churches and non-profit organizations. I have no idea how much each of these entities purchase, but if they only buy one computer in a year, they will probably pay over $1,000 just for that. Add to that the copy paper and office supplies, books, cleaning services, the new roof or furnace they will occasionally need, choir robes, and on and on, and it can add up. I am not defending the amount that they are expecting to receive from this, but I am sure that your figure is a low-ball amount.

[whopis01]

50. It isn't about taxing churches specifically - it is about charging sales tax to non-profits

Which would include churches. It would also includes a hospital and many other non-profits.

The article is deceptively titled, tricking people into thinking that all the money is to come just from churches.

[Sgent]

56. In most states

being exempt from sales tax means that you aren't required to pay sales tax at the register, not that your exempt from collecting it.

[Pisces]

5. Tax those churches Right Away!!!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. And non-profits.

We've had a spate of articles here lately about how people are having to pay fees and fines for feeding those in need.

[Bandit]

23. Alaskans just voted to give the Oil Industry a two billion dollar tax break, and since then EVERY

community has had to raise taxes on anybody and everybody they possibly can. The most vulnerable are now going to have to pay more so the Wealthiest Industry in the world.. EVER.. can have a tax cut.

[Maineman]

52. That's rich. Tax cuts for oil industry and raise taxes on non-profits.

Politically oriented non-profits should definitely be taxed. They (and all states) should tax political donations of more than $100 per year at 95%, or more.

[KamaAina]

6. All three radio stations in Nome are religious

this could get interesting.

[valerief]

33. Those poor people. Thank "god" for the internet, I guess. nt

[KamaAina]

34. Well, they do have an NPR translator

from the station in Fairbanks.

[valerief]

37. Yeah, but NPR went right wing with the Bush coup in 2000. nt

[malaise]

15. Best news ever

Rec

[belzabubba333]

42. yea if you enjoy kicking the poor around

[Mr Dixon]

25. IMO

Make the country wide and we would be moving in the right direction, this has been long overdue.

[hifiguy]

28. "TAX the CHURCHES.

TAX the BUSINESSES OWNED by the CHURCHES." - Frank Zappa

[valerief]

32. Good! Reminds me of when the GOP echo machine made noise about Obama

considering not renewing the Bush tax cuts. They called it a tax increase. I wonder if that's how this tax exemption removal will be media-squawked.

[ripcord]

38. I wonder if this includes food banks and other charities?

Could hurt a lot of needy people.

[belzabubba333]

40. war on the poor - of course it's gonna hurt the poor but who cares let's bleed those useless

churches dry after all they dont do anything (except pissoff people on du. )

[pnwmom]

54. All non-profits. It would be illegal if they treated Churches differently. n/t

[roguevalley]

60. I don't know but the big churches in Anchorage have

scads of houses and stuff they don't pay taxes on. They had that battle a while back. Taxes lost.

[belzabubba333]

45. yes very good news indeed - for the hard of heart

here i thought we dems were the compassionate party. but we hate religion so tax those churches

[Warpy]

47. Oh, bullshit.

Most churches are run as businesses, they need to be. Donations to them cut the tax bills of their members.

Hostility to religion isn't part of this, that's your own strawman so have fun playing with him.

It's the reality of the situation in towns and cities with poor populations and tax bases that have been eroded by vanishing businesses and expanding churches.

See: Boston.

[belzabubba333]

48. well you cling to that if that makes you feel better

we're not talking about boston

[Warpy]

46. Boston is the city that most needs to tax churches

The amount of land in Boston that has been gobbled up by various churches has left businesses and homeowners with such huge property tax bills that only the wealthy can own homes. Rents are so high that the state was forced to pass a rebate for renters on state tax forms.

I left the city I loved because I knew there was no way I could buy even a studio apartment there, the five digit tax bill every year making it impossible on a nurse's paycheck--and that was a good paycheck.

[gerogie2]

49. Actually most non-profits that engage in commerce must pay sales taxes.

The conflict comes with directly taxing the income of the church.

[Sgent]

57. Depends on the state

most exempt sales tax for purchases that relate to the non-profit purpose. For even a small hospital that's millions / year.

[roguevalley]

61. charities and the like who come to the business i

work for are tax exempt.

[Maineman]

53. They should tax political donations at about 98%.

[larkrake]

55. all churches should be taxed now that they are political

or requiring money from paritioners. They rarely assist the poor anymore, and certainly are not non-profit

[Aerows]

68. Best news I've heard in ages.

All churches should be taxed. If you wish to be involved in the political, social and morality process, you need to have some skin in the game.

[bobclark86]

69. Well, in New York...

We have this thing called a property tax cap, where municipalities can only raise taxes by a certain amount (a 13-part formula, but most people call it a 2 percent tax cap because the rate of inflation, capped at 2 percent, is one of the 13 figures used). While such a move in New York wouldn't raise a lot of money, it would certainly lower property taxes by shifting part of the current burden to the biggest non-government, non-industrial buildings in the area.

[Revanchist]

72. List of non-profits in Nome

http://www.charityblossom.org/directory/AK/Nome/?page=1

and here's a site to look up the mission of the charities

http://www.faqs.org/tax-exempt/index-Alaska.html