General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy is it so shocking or horrible to Democrats that the President used political tactics
to get the ACA passed? Political tactics that Gruber stupidly exposed?
I can see why the other side is complaining, but why the Dems? It seems that half the time people here are complaining that Obama isn't a master of politics, like LBJ, and the other half they're complaining that he's just a politician.
He, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, and others cooperated to get an ACA bill passed that could make it through Congress. To do that they had to jump through some political hoops. There is nothing unusual or outrageous about this -- except to the hypocrites on the other side of the aisle, and to Dems who don't know how bills routinely get passed.
It is no coincidence that all the hubbub about this and the Supreme Court taking on the ACA subsidy case is happening at the same time. Anyone who thinks otherwise is incredibly naive.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/upshot/the-jonathan-gruber-controversy-and-washingtons-dirty-little-secret.html?hpw&rref=upshot&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&abt=0002&abg=1
That would be Jonathan Gruber, an M.I.T. health economist who helped design the Massachusetts health reforms on which Obamacare was based and then advised the Obama administration on that programs design. At an academic panel in 2013, he said that this bill was written in a tortured way to make sure the Congressional Budget Office did not score the mandate as taxes. He also said that lack of transparency is a huge political advantage, and added, "Call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.
SNIP
But heres the dirty little secret: Mr. Gruber was exposing something sordid yet completely commonplace about how Congress makes policy of all types: Legislators frequently game policy to fit the sometimes arbitrary conventions by which the Congressional Budget Office evaluates laws and the public debates them.
In the case of the Affordable Care Act, that meant structuring the law so that the money Americans must pay the Internal Revenue Service if they fail to obtain health insurance under the laws mandate is a penalty, not a tax. (The Supreme Court held that, though not a tax, the penalties were constitutional because they were an exercise of Congresss taxing authority, which is the kind of distinction only a lawyer could come up with). Thats the reason the financial assistance the health law gives people to buy insurance is structured as a tax credit, not a direct payment, which would probably be simpler and more efficient.
And as Sarah Kliff notes at Vox, it is also why the law was structured to expand insurance coverage three years after passage. That way its cost estimate by the C.B.O. was kept under $1 trillion during the first decade after enactment. One trillion was the highest number that Democratic leaders thought was politically feasible.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The concern seems to be entirely manufactured. Most Democrats I know just wish we had leaders who had worked to enact something a lot less crappy and Republican than the ACA.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)msongs
(67,433 posts)that buzz word that has been cast aside?
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)He said that his statement wasn't clear and that the meaning was misunderstood.
And for Gruber to have made these off-the-cuff mistakes was, IMO, stupid.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/11/11/who-is-jonathan-gruber/
I honestly dont remember why I said that, Gruber told The New Republic in July. I was speaking off-the-cuff. It was just a mistake. People make mistakes. Congress made a mistake drafting the law, and I made a mistake talking about it.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)He is an arrogant academic talking to other arrogant, overpaid, smug academics. There was a camera on him, and guess what? He got caught being himself in his natural habitat.
Why people can't accept that is a pathetic, embarrassing mystery.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)for someone who is a supporter of the ACA to have said.
Clearly, his massive ego got the better of his supposedly large brain.
Yes, the President and Congressional leaders made political calculations and wrote them into the bill. So what.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)They make a religion out of finding fault with their own alleged Party, but of course never do anything to correct that fault - doing so would remove the opportunity to denounce it.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)not knowing when to keep his big mouth shut. UnFreakingReal.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)The problem is, though, that in a sense he is right. The average American is not very informed at all; that's why the Rethugs succeeded in winning the last election.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Republican or said that Nixon was "more liberal" than he was? Who feel that the president shouldn't even talk to conservative news organizations and that everything should be done by banging his fist on the "bully pulpit?"
Are you really surprised that they are surprised? I think some of these folks get "surprised" when water falls out of the sky.
bhikkhu
(10,722 posts)Basically, in a diverse country where lots of different people have lots of different ideas, that's the only way things get done. In a perfect world, everyone would have the same education and background and experiences and think the same thoughts, and we'd all agree on what to do and how to do it easily.
Of course, that's kind of a creepy idea. I think if there were such a perfect world, there'd also have to be an imperfect world, and that's where most of us DU'ers would get exiled to.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)The American people should be exposed to what really goes on. I think the average American generally considers most, if not all politicians dishonest so they have an idea this type of thing goes on which is probably why turnout has dropped since 1960.
To have meaningful change, we have to know how the system works.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)supports the ACA and wasn't intentionally trying to damage it.
It was stupid to let his ego override his sense.
He just shot off his mouth and that was stupid.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I run into that problem myself, I prefer to be straight-forward and the same back to me.
Just that I have certain values that defer than other people. JMO
Hekate
(90,773 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)That video isn't a smoking gun. It's a full-throated, gloating, smug confession.
Why try to spin it? It is what it is. It was utterly misrepresented to get it passed.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)No one wants to vote for any "tax," so they arranged for it to be a "mandate" instead. Are you saying good Democrats should load their bills with terminology that will keep them from ever getting passed?
Every person who voted for it knew exactly what the were voting for. Whether it is called a "tax" or "mandate" doesn't change the bottom line for most people -- exactly how many dollars they might have to pay.