General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsReporter undergoes ‘unnecessary’ transvaginal ultrasound to frame abortion debate
-Snip-
But few have actually gone through the procedurewhich is why Megan Carpentier, executive editor of the progressive news site Raw Story, decided to have a "completely unnecessary transvaginal ultrasound" and document the experience for readers.
"It was vigorously uncomfortable," Carpentier wrote, partly "because the technician has to press the wand directly against the areas she wants to get an image ofyour uterus, Fallopian tubes and ovariesso there's more movement and more direct contact with pressure-sensitive areas of your body."
Carpentier continued:
You're also not lying flat on your back to facilitate access to the upper reaches of your vagina; and you're being penetrated with a longer, rigid object than is used in a regular pelvic exam. In my case, as the technician explained after, my uterus is "high," or tilted toward my abdomen, so she had to tilt the wand accordinglyand because it was so uncomfortable, she halted the exam before fully exploring my Fallopian tubes or ovaries. If I had been pregnant (which I knew I was not), the exam might have lasted longer as she looked to rule out an ectopic pregnancy and locate the minuscule gestational sac.
It was not, however, like being raped, despite all the furor-generating headlines and "Doonesbury" cartoons that were printed. It was uncomfortable to the point of being painful, emotionally triggering (and undoubtedly is moreso for victims of rape or incest or any woman in the midst of an already-emotional experience) and something that no government should force its citizens to undergo to make a political point. But it wasn't like being rapedand using language like that not only minimizes rape for its survivors but makes them and other women more frightened of the procedure, which has significant and important medical uses.
Link to rest: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/reporter-megan-carpentier-undergoes-unnecessary-transvaginal-ultrasound-frame-155926605.html
liberal N proud
(60,347 posts)unblock
(52,375 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)The outrage is pointed at the idiot journalist, not you.
Mosby
(16,381 posts)Are you just assuming?
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)Whatever.
Mosby
(16,381 posts)I'm sorry if my post offended you in some way.
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)I can't know she wasn't raped, but it is raping my instrumentation when you do it on someone who didn't volunteer for it. You didn't offend me so much as wonder why you were criticizing me.
dmr
(28,349 posts)technicians will stop the procedure when a woman cries out in pain? None!
That's a huge difference. She went willingly, & she stopped it before it was complete.
Her report is incomplete, done poorly, thus making it bogus.
I'm an old lady. I had this procedure done a few months ago. I have cancer. It was medically necessary. It was uncomfortable. To help me get through it, I joked about it, but it was not humorous & it was no joke. I just needed emotional help to get through it.
I can't even begin to imagine being forced by the State to have this done against my will. I see it as a violation of a woman's civil rights.
To that reporter: I have no respect for you.
cottage10
(49 posts)tsuki
(11,994 posts)ladywnch
(2,672 posts)the procedure you went in for.
She consented to an academic exercise (since she didn't need any real medical treatment, this was an academic exercise) but women seeking medical procedures MUST consent to this procedure or be denied services..............THAT makes it rape..........the forcing.......and MAKING THE WOMAN PAY FOR THE UNNECESSARY PROCEDURES is financial rape.
tsuki
(11,994 posts)She consented. Anyone else will be coerced. That makes it rape. She has no right saying it is not rape.
ladywnch
(2,672 posts)tsuki
(11,994 posts)Sometimes I take shortcuts with my comments, my bad. I would do a wave, but I don't know where the smilies disappeared to.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)read the legal definition of rape, as shown above you.
By that definition, it is not rape as she consented to the penetration.
wandy
(3,539 posts)SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)will with someone who has been told no, again and again..that's rape
a person in a medical setting who knows what's about to happen is not being raped. They are not fearful of being injured, killed or of becoming pregnant or catching a disease.
The device used is clean/sterilized and hopefully being used by a trained technician.. They are not being "stabbed" with an appendage of a brutish bully who means them harm...or at the very least cares nothing about them at all to the point of violating their trust as well as their body.
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE...any penetration without consent is Rape.
Skittles
(153,212 posts)it is coercion to force a woman seeking an abortion to undergo that procedure
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)"uncomfortable to the point of being painful", and she halted the exam before they completed it? How is having this exam against your will not like being raped again?
I know there are many uncomfortable diagnostic tests out there--it's hard enough when you need to go through them. But forcing an instrument into a body cavity unnecessarily is too much risk. I can see some lawsuits on the horizon.
enough
(13,263 posts)she purposefully made the experience happen. Of course this was not like rape, by definition.
I'm surprised that someone who has put so much thought and effort into this issue does not understand this.
eridani
(51,907 posts)angstlessk
(11,862 posts)"painful even" and emotionally stunting, life changing, family destroying....personally destructive...
I hated every GYN exam I ever had....I know some vaginal probe would be more like my rape experience...
All this just brings it all back and I am 62..you would think I would be over it by now...NEVER!
I don't know if women who have support of family can over come that trauma, but because I did not have that support I never did.
Ms. Toad
(34,114 posts)I had tons of support, and was pretty emotionally healthy to start with (and a few years older than you at 18). Until 20 years later, I thought I was over it - aside from a little PTSD now and again that didn't really interfere with my life. Then my psyche decided I was ready to deal with parts of it I had tucked away in some dark little corner. Bam.
I went back through everything I went through in the immediate aftermath - much more quickly - but it was way more intense because it was so compact. And I had friends who work with survivors of trauma tell me I should probably seek professional help. I believed then, and still believe 15 years later, that we all heal at our own pace, it truly is never completely over, and that each of us have some sort of built in governor which lets us see and deal with parts of the trauma at the pace at which we are ready to do so.
Stay strong, my friend.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)for your comments...It's been too long coming and I wish there was a 'purge pill' that could just make it all go away. I have been in group sessions and been accused of wanting attention by bringing up my rape...trust me...I feel I am the most guilty party in my rape...I drank beer and passed out...I loved beer and used to sneak my father's beer...and they thought it was cute when I was 4...but at 11 it got me raped. I was 11..a child!..I have to keep telling me this...because my mother blamed me..because I drank beer...I had no idea what beer would do...only that I liked the taste of it...
I will never not blame myself because my mother blamed me...that is just my fact of life. But I need to forgive her for blaming me...can I ever..because if I forgive her, I forgive myself? This rape is really the dilemma of my entire life..Her first words to me after we left the police station was 'Katherine go wash that filth off of your body' it took years, and a day at the beach with new shorts and a new top, after my shower that I felt 'clean'..but only for a moment.
Ms. Toad
(34,114 posts)The message that we deserved it is so strong that it is really hard to overcome, particularly back in the 60s which were pretty much the dark ages in terms of blaming the victim.
My mother's first words, when I informed her by phone that I had been raped were, "Were you doing something you shouldn't have been doing?" Intellectually, I know that what she said came from the impotence of having a daughter, in pain, 1000 miles away at college. That intellectual knowledge doesn't erase the sting, but it is a gift that I have always been able to see the source of that painful question, as well as to reject the common wisdom that I must have done something to deserve it. I say gift, because I have no idea where it came from, or why I have never felt the guilt or self-doubt that you have - and so many women do.
Something I have learned may help you let go of the pain in connection with your mother. I volunteered as a peer counselor for a decade as a hospital advocate, among other things. Women always requested (and I always dreaded) a woman gynecologist doing the rape exam. They were, on average, much more likely to be harsh on the survivor whose hand I was holding. One of the things women do, even more frequently than men, is to blame women who are raped. It is not so much that we are hard on each other, it is a mechanism for self-protection. Rape messages are so common in our culture that at least subconsciously its possibility is never too far away. If I can figure out what "you" did to deserve it, and it is something I would never do (or that I can avoid doing in the future), I can imagine it might not happen to me. Your mother may have just been protecting herself. That doesn't make it excusable, or mean that you need to forgive her. But it may help you understand, and perhaps take some of the sting out of it.
Of course you are not to blame, and you should not have had to carry that burden for half a century.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)...folks want to blame victims, so their chances of being a victim is diminished...I have always understood that thought process, but I have never thought of rape in the same light, but you are correct...I never thought of my mother as vulnerable as she always seemed so strong, but perhaps she too feared being raped?
Wow, just wow...time to forgive all parties...my mother in particular.
enough
(13,263 posts)Your words are very accurate and strong. I'm a woman a few years older than you. I didn't experience this myself, but I have seen the same thing in people very close to me. Thank you for saying this so clearly.
mcar
(42,402 posts)Even painful. I have them annually as I have uterine fibroids and am high risk for ovarian cancer.
But, it is for my health, at my doctor's recommendation and by my choice. Makes all the difference.
firehorse
(755 posts)I had to have it done because I have fibroids -- 2 different times. One woman was more gentle than the other but it still sucked and I had to take half a valium and ibuprofin just to deal with it. If you get an anti-abortionist behind the joystick I guarantee it would be total hell.
Rex
(65,616 posts)unless it involves ownership and sovereignty. THEN they want tyrannical control over another person. Fucking assholes should be called on their shit 24/7 imo.
underpants
(182,945 posts)rape
noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic . the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape
Ms. Toad
(34,114 posts)which the dictionary is really incapable of giving because it varies from state to state, and there is the functional one. This certainly would meet the functional one - best reflected by #1 above - carried out under duress duress - which typically also includes penetration by any body part or object.
spedtr90
(719 posts)When the person holding the wand is male it doesn't matter that it's a medical procedure. It feels unbearably intrusive and embarrassing. If there was no medical reason for it and I didn't agree to it, I would consider it rape.
Ms. Toad
(34,114 posts)First, the procedure is more common that is implied.
Many women have it for valid medical purposes. I have fallopian tube scarring, and had pain in the area of my fallopian tubes (which turned out to be appendicitis...but that is another story) when I was about 4 weeks pregnant (well, 6, by medical (and now legally in Arizona) gestational age - but that is also another conversation). I had to have a transvaginal ultrasound to rule out ectopic pregnancy (mentioned in the video). I also had fibroids - as a couple of women had mentioned, but it was never suggested to me as a diagnostic tool for fibroids.
Second, I am a rape survivor and as someone who has experienced both I have some basis to compare - although YMMV. As a necessary medical procedure to which I consented, it has the same relationship to rape that consensual sexual intercourse does. When required (but unnecessary) in order to obtain an abortion, it is coercive in way which is similar to rape by coercion. Some date rape, family rape (I will leave your little sister alone as long as you cooperate and keep our little secret), and - in my case - I will not "hurt" you if you help stick it in. In other words, some element which might be portrayed as consent if it went to court - but isn't really consent because there is no realistic option of saying "no." So from my perspective (and I am only speaking from the perspective of one rape survivor), it does not trivialize rape to describe this procedure as state mandated rape.
Finally, it is an extremely uncomfortable procedure. A rigid rod inserted in your vagina, being moved around until they can find the view they need (and they really don't know where they will find the sac, because the embryo can implant anywhere and it may take a while to find it and "focus" on it) - done with a full-to-the-point-of-bursting bladder to provide better visualization. When it is necessary, as in my case, physically painful, but not emotionally painful. When it is medically unnecessary - that is another story.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I had a vaginal ultrasound a few years ago to look for fibroids.
Terribly uncomfortable and demeaning. yes, I did consent to it, but MENTALLY it still felt like rape.
I had to hold on to my husband's arm to support me as I walked out because I felt weak and unsteady due to being violated. I also had to have a good cry over the mental trauma.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Since she consented it was not rape.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)People go to BDSM clubs and do things that make this look tame, BUT, there are alwasy safeguards so that when something stops being fun, a safeword is said, and the mess STOPS.....PERIOD. What this journalist did was basicly a tame s & M session that, unlike what goes on in the clubs, was meant to assist the GOP forcing women to play their game, one without a safeword.