Lena Dunham Goes on ‘Rage Spiral’ After Abuse Allegations

[B2G]

She's cancelled 2 book tour appearances as well. Not sure how I feel about this....

*****************************************************************************
Lena Dunham Goes on ‘Rage Spiral’ After Abuse Allegations
Maya Rhodan
10:14 AM ET
    
She hits back at right-wing media accusations that she molested her younger sister

Girls star Lena Dunham went on a self-described “rage spiral” over the weekend in response to conservative media allegations that, as a child, she molested her younger sister.

In her memoir Not That Kind of Girl, Dunham writes about bribing her little sister, Grace, with candy in exchange for kisses as a child. “Basically, anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying,” Dunham writes. She also details an instance where, as a 7-year-old, she examined her baby sister’s vagina. Several right-wing blogs have blasted the story as admitted abuse.

A fed-up Dunham took to Twitter on Nov. 1 to express her outrage at the allegations

http://time.com/3554403/lena-dunham-rage-spiral-media/

[Nye Bevan]

1. I'm missing the political angle here?

Why would it be "right-wing blogs" that would focus on this?

[JaneyVee]

2. Because she's very openly Liberal.

[B2G]

3. She's getting torn apart on Twitter

It was interesting, because the main "tearers" are women and African-Americans.

It's not just the right wing.

[JaneyVee]

5. True, but I don't see how a 7yr old could be held accountable.

Maybe she was never told not to do that?

[Orrex]

21. "Girls will be girls?"

[pnwmom]

40. Children playing doctor isn't unusual. This seems to be a form of that. n/t

[Orrex]

42. Maybe, but there's a creepy, salacious tone in the way she tells it.

If a male writer/actor had recounted such fondly-recalled memories of "playing doctor" with his infant sister, or of "seducing" her for kisses, how would his tale be received?

[VanillaRhapsody]

138. a 7 yr old?

[tammywammy]

43. Until your 17?

She touched her sister until they stopped sharing a bed...when Lena was 17.

Edited to add: playing doctor involves children about the same age with the same curiosity, not a 6 year age difference that's ongoing for a decade.

[pnwmom]

45. I hadn't read that yet, but when I did, i didn't get the impression you did.

It sounded to me that she touched herself when her sister was in the same bed. Not that she was touching her sister while she was stimulating herself.

But what she wrote does leave her open to a lot of questions. It's ambiguous.

[tammywammy]

48. Maybe I misread it.

Still, the whole thing sounds off. I still wouldn't call it "playing doctor" since that's between two mutually curious children, not a 7 year old and 1 year old.

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. so how long should she be locked up for this thing she did when she was 7?

[tammywammy]

142. When did I say she should be locked up?

Oh that's right, I didn't. Please don't insinuate or make up shit about my posts. Thank you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. well there is no statute of limitations on this....so what are you thinking is appropriate

punishment for a "7yr old pedophile" 20 yrs later????

[tammywammy]

147. I already asked once nicely for you to stop making up stuff about my posts.

Maybe you should actually reply to someone that called her a pedophile - which wasn't me. Not only did I not call her a pedophile, I never even thought it AND I highly disagree with that characterization.

So please, I'll ask again - stop making up shit or insinuating shit I've not posted. I'd really appreciate you not wasting my time to respond to your a BS replies to me.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

173. She masterbated in bed next to her younger sister

according to her book. And I find that highly strange since she lived a "very" privileged life. I doubt that they had to share a bed.

[B2G]

44. 12 month olds wear diapers,

making me believe someone took the diaper off.

If pebbles were actually involved, it really makes me wonder how they got there in the first place. A 12 month old is not going to be playing a 'prank' on anyone either.

[pnwmom]

46. Twelve month olds are capable of reaching into their diapers

and pulling things out. So I guess they're capable of putting things in, as well.

[B2G]

50. Quite a stretch with a secured diaper.

So Lena expects me to believe she's sitting there playing with her sister and didn't see her take off her diaper and insert 7 pebbles?

Sorry, not buying it. I think she's the one who put them in there.

[pnwmom]

52. Who said it was a secured diaper? As I said, the same child who can reach into a diaper

and pull poop out through the leg holes (which I have personally witnessed) could reach in and put something in.

I can see what you're saying, but given how prone Dunham is to over-sharing, if she had done that I think she would have said so.

[B2G]

54. If the child was 2 or 3, I could maybe see it.

A 12 month old? Not so much.

First of all, they don't possess the dexterity to do such a thing. Secondly, they don't have an obsession with genitalia at that age. And lastly, Lena admitted she did had such an obsession.

My money's on Lena doing this.

[pnwmom]

57. Do we know the child was exactly 12 months old and not, say, 16 or 17 months?

Was Dunham's description or memory that precise? I missed that.

But I didn't miss seeing my baby sister taken to the E.R. after she rammed a couple peas up her nose.

(And I didn't do it!)

[Dorian Gray]

73. They

don't generally have the fine motor control to hold pebbles singularly.

And I doubt she could shove a handful inside of herself at once.

Seriously, I think Lena is exaggerating stories to sound edgy. When people don't like it, she gets upset.

[pnwmom]

77. I caught my crawling 9 month old about to put a bug into her mouth.

So I think some may have more fine motor control than others.

But I do think you could be right about Dunham exaggerating. She might have thought she was sounding funny. Yuk.

[ecstatic]

156. Good point

I took Lena at her word that she found her sister that way... but now that I think about it, you're right. Just thinking back to the first tampon and it's obvious that Lena's version of events is not possible. Tremendous dexterity and strength would be required to force something in there 7 times in a row despite the tightness and pain. She tortured her sister. And the mom never even picked up on it. SMH.

[notadmblnd]

78. I agree with you on this.

[Dorian Gray]

72. It's not just the right wing

people are taken aback about how she wrote about her sister. She used the word "predator" herself. I would actually be interested in reading what a psychologist would have to say about this behavior? Was it innocent exploration or exploitation of her younger sister?

[Jackpine Radical]

151. Ordinarily, when a young child starts fooling around with a younger child,

it is often traceable to the sexualization of the older child as a result of the older child also being a victim of molestation. I'm not talking about "playing doctor" here, but about the older child displaying a serious and persistent interest in sexual activity. I think most psychologists & social welfare people have seen many such cases.

[Dorian Gray]

161. Thanks for that little tidbit

I'm actually interested in this a lot. It seems as though her sis is defending her, so I don't know what the real story of their childhood was.

[cali]

175. well, Lena's father has a well documented obsession when it comes to vaginas

perhaps obsession is the wrong word, but he's certainly renowned for painting vaginas.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dunham+paintings&biw=1173&bih=516&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=c-1YVPyzI-rZsATr7oHQBA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

Oh, and her mother's work is also highly sexualized.

[snooper2]

6. I don't know who she is, don't get the political angle either, and think she just needs attention

She doesn't seem real bright either...who hasn't played with a vagina as a kid!

[tazkcmo]

31. I didn't

But then again, I didn't own one to play with.

[JaneyVee]

4. I thought I read she examined her sisters vagina because...

The little girl had stuck pebbles up there?

[B2G]

8. According to her book it goes a lot further than that.

I've read the passages in question...it's rather disturbing.

[closeupready]

7. She's disgusting, independent of these allegations.

Can't stand her, which is probably exactly the kind of reaction she's going for, so on that level, she's succeeded.

[closeupready]

95. lol - afraid this one falls under the category,

"If I have to tell you, it's not worth it" - I'd be villified and hung by my e-gonads here for expressing my thoughts beyond the most general "she's disgusting".

Cheers.

[closeupready]

107. You would know based upon your one day here and 17 posts.

That one day and 17 posts makes you an expert on who here is articulate and who is not. (By the way, do you like pepperoni, or sausage?)

[LordGlenconner]

117. I don't find her disgusting

But I do find her gross. As in, she looks like someone who is adverse to bathing and general hygiene.

[closeupready]

125. Well, yes, that's what I meant - sorry for the confusion.

Everything about her, physically, mentally - I had read that she is related to someone big in the media, and that this was how she got her show on HBO. I don't know if that's true, but she's the living example of what H.L. Mencken (or P.T. Barnum?) meant when he said, "you can never underestimate the intelligence of the American public."

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. This should go well

[randys1]

22. NO election tomorrow, been called off I guess

[B2G]

23. There are plenty of threads for you to post to

regarding the elections. Knock yourself out.

[randys1]

24. No, I would rather forget about the election and worry about what a 7 yr old girl did

20 yrs ago

[B2G]

25. Good call. nt

[randys1]

26. I dont know you, I cant look up your old posts, and I am not looking for an argument

I just figure the day before an election where a political party who WILL legislate in such a way that WILL (if they can get away with it) KILL Women from unsafe and illegal abortions, might win enough power to do exactly that, eventually, is a day where focus should be solely on said election.

Just me...i am probably wrong

[tazkcmo]

38. No multi tasking!!!!

What if we get hungry? Or have to go potty? What are the limitations you're setting for us? I need to know because I'm moving tomorrow but according to you I need to focus solely on tomorrow's election in spite of the fact I've already voted.

I've also two pets that require feeding, attention, their own potty breaks, watering, exercise, etc. I suppose I can put them in their pens until the polls close.

[Feral Child]

81. Yep.

Wrong.

Your interest in how people entertain themselves is preachy, and a little troubling. We really do get to talk about non-political things here, and Election Day isn't a religious rite. I've made my choices of candidates and issues. I'll vote my conscience, but right now I feel like engaging in a few minutes of gossip.

And there's really nothing you can do to stop it, so preach away, if you have a mind.

[Orrex]

27. Fortunately, no one is calling for such an insane course of action.

This message brought to you by the Ministry of Walking and the entirely separate Department of Gum-Chewing, which can't possibly overlap.

[randys1]

28. I love John too, but I just figured today might be best to focus on an election

Surely Rove isnt against sending his minions out to places like DU to distract people, I have no clue who the person is who started this thread and am not making that allegation.

Oh well, I am wrong, I am sure...

Go ahead...have fun

dammit, i just realized I have been misdirected myself with this fucking bullshit

excuse me, I should not be in this thread...sorry about that

[B2G]

30. Well my cover has been blown

Karl is going to be so pissed off at me.

I'm probably going to be demoted from minion to lackey. Shit.

[Orrex]

34. Nice post, flunky.

[B2G]

37. Easy for you to laugh

My career is essentially over now.

[Arugula Latte]

64. You could start over as an underling

and maybe work your way up to toady.

[B2G]

29. LMAO

[Orrex]

10. What a fucked up thing to write.

“Basically, anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying,” Dunham writes.

Not sure how that could be seen as anything other than vile and desperate.

[Puzzledtraveller]

19. Agreed

[Dorian Gray]

75. I agree....

It's problematic to write that. It's so flippant.

[AverageJoe90]

136. I do agree, that wording was pretty problematic.

But playing doctor isn't exactly uncommon for kids.....of either gender.

[Dorian Gray]

159. Is it common

for a 7 year old to play doctor with a 1 or 2 year old?

I'm seriously asking without any agenda here.

But I've said elsewhere I think she exaggerate or tells stories in order to see like a cool and quirky person, and now that this was published this book and people are questioning it, she's calling foul.

I understand why she's getting upset, but she put questionable behavior out there for the public to read and snarkily compared it to being a predator. The flippant snarkiness makes her seem like a jerk.

[Brickbat]

11. C'mon you guys, she's just so wacky and real, y'know?

HELLO? EDITOR?

[B2G]

12. Some more excerpts:

“Do we all have uteruses?” I asked my mother when I was seven.

“Yes,” she told me. “We’re born with them, and with all our eggs, but they start out very small. And they aren’t ready to make babies until we’re older.” I look at my sister, now a slim, tough one-year-old, and at her tiny belly. I imagined her eggs inside her, like the sack of spider eggs in Charlotte’s Web, and her uterus, the size of a thimble.

“Does her vagina look like mine?”

“I guess so,” my mother said. “Just smaller.”

One day, as I sat in our driveway in Long Island playing with blocks and buckets, my curiosity got the best of me. Grace was sitting up, babbling and smiling, and I leaned down between her legs and carefully spread open her vagina. She didn’t resist and when I saw what was inside I shrieked.

My mother came running. “Mama, Mama! Grace has something in there!”

My mother didn’t bother asking why I had opened Grace’s vagina. This was within the spectrum of things I did. She just got on her knees and looked for herself. It quickly became apparent that Grace had stuffed six or seven pebbles in there. My mother removed them patiently while Grace cackled, thrilled that her prank had been a success."

****************************************************************************

"As she grew, I took to bribing her for her time and affection: one dollar in quarters if I could do her makeup like a “motorcycle chick.” Three pieces of candy if I could kiss her on the lips for five seconds. Whatever she wanted to watch on TV if she would just “relax on me.” Basically, anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying."

***************************************************************************

"I shared a bed with my sister, Grace, until I was seventeen years old. She was afraid to sleep alone and would begin asking me around 5:00 P.M. every day whether she could sleep with me. I put on a big show of saying no, taking pleasure in watching her beg and sulk, but eventually I always relented. Her sticky, muscly little body thrashed beside me every night as I read Anne Sexton, watched reruns of SNL, sometimes even as I slipped my hand into my underwear to figure some stuff out."

[LittleBlue]

17. "sometimes even as I slipped my hand into my underwear to figure some stuff out."

TMI Lena

[ecstatic]

154. Things got creepy at the "for five seconds" part

and only got creepier. Yikes! Lena is intelligent. Even at 7, she would have (or at least should have) known she was going too far. I'm about 7 yrs older than my brother and never did those things.

[Brickbat]

13. I like this take on it:

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2014/11/lena-dunham-memoir.html

Some people are saying Lena sexually molested her little sister, and that she’s a predator. I’m stopping short of saying that but I can’t just brush it off as “normal childhood behavior.” Kids do creepy things but do those children turn around as adults to write about those moments like fond memories? Especially when those moments involve someone else’s private parts that you “spread apart.” Is it normal to compare what you did to something a sexual predator would as a full grown person?

If you’re Lena Dunham the Weird, I guess so.

And the part where she points out that “My mother didn’t bother asking why I had opened Grace’s vagina. This was within the spectrum of things I did.“ Was that to assure us that this wasn’t weird on her scale of 1 to Dennis Rodman? Ok, girl. We woulda had a 3-day summit about that shit had I been her mama! What did you do to your sister’s body?? THAT IS NOT YOUR BODY SO YOU DON’T HAVE THE RIGHT. Your body is yours. Explore that. Someone else’s body is THEIRS. It is not for you to touch at will!

People without boundaries are the worst and they tend to not respect the personal space of others. Those are the people who walk up to you and talk all close even though their breath is making your eyelashes curl. They’re the people who can’t keep their hands to themselves and those are the people who feel like they can tell all your business. GET SOME BOUNDARIES ABOUT YOU, B!

[randome]

14. Kids do the darnedest things, don't they?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[LittleBlue]

15. What the hell?!

“Basically, anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying,” Dunham writes. She also details an instance where, as a 7-year-old, she examined her baby sister’s vagina.

Maybe she's being accused of abuse because it sounds an awful lot like abuse.

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. I wish she'd go on a Fuck Off Spiral nt

[pecwae]

70. If only. nt

[AngryAmish]

18. Her family is incredibly fucked up

No wonder she is incredibly fucked up.

This isn't a right wing thing. I would not leave her alone with children. This is learned behavior, repeating over generations.

I am glad I don't have HBO.

[Puzzledtraveller]

20. That was my though too.

It was normalized for her at an early age. I was a victim of similar circumstance but with my fathers business partners older son who molested me when I was 11. I am 41 now and reading what she had written and her cavalier way of relating it really upset and sickened me.

[Tsiyu]

92. There are many repressed people in the world

There are some DUers - like some Americans - who are very, very ashamed of dirty, dirty sex and those ugly genitals they wish they didn't have.

When grown women go "Ewwwww!!!!!" because someone talks about a penis in a normal conversation about pretty standard sex - as I have seen here at DU - you know you've stepped back in to Victorian times and it's best to just walk away from the thread.

I love "Girls." It's funny, insightful and honest.

No one is discussing Boardwalk Empire, which explored a 13 year old given to a grown man for political favors.

Lolita is fucking art - oh, wait, a guy wrote it.

A woman can't just talk about weird, goofy shit kids do, in all honesty, without the goddamned torches and pitchforks being brought out.

Thanks, Red Threat, for standing up for Lena. Not like she needs it, she's tough.

And now I may be getting the vapors from all this talk of....well, you know!

S*X!!!!!!

[Tsiyu]

118. You would think sometimes

that the Church Lady has multiple accounts on DU.

Poor dear. And her counterpart: pseudo-outraged man.

I always love the guys who call women pejorative names we associate with "dirty sex" who then also view porn.

The younger generations are, thankfully, better able to cope with frank, open discussions about human sexuality. My "hippie" and Boomer generation will go to their graves consumed with guilt and shame over their own sexuality.

Cheers.

[uppityperson]

127. Thanks MIRT

[Tsiyu]

130. Yeah, I'm such an edgy troll

Been here over ten years and they haven't got me yet. lol

It's funny how people will gush over the misogyny in Mad Men - oh, they disagree with it , of course, but they LOOOOOOOVE the show.

People here have zero principles when it comes to something they enjoy. But as soon as a woman steps out of the box, all these wonderful Democrats are ready to crucify her.

You can't say the B word here, but you can pass out all the goddamned scarlet letters you want.

[GeorgeGist]

170. Fiction vs reality.

There is a difference.

[Ampersand Unicode]

150. I'm a millennial, and "dirty stuff" makes me want to puke.

FFS, I came of age in an era post-AIDS. The thought that sex could actually kill you, not in a quick and easy manner either, but a horrible, horrible, flesh-eating and gruesome death like the melting Nazi in Raiders of the Lost Ark, turned me off for life. Has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with disease. Sex makes me think of Ebola and the Nicolas Cage "NOT THE BEES" meme. It's not so much about "morals" as it is about sanitary procedures. Until they make a condom coated with Purell, and the CDC issues a mandate that everyone who wants to "do it" must "do it" in a Hazmat suit, this is always going to be the source of much nausea for me. Forget what you may have heard about the "hook up" generation. I'm more like Bubble Girl when it comes to this stuff. You want to go on a date? You better make sure you fist-bump me good night.



#notallyoungpeople #neverbeenkissed

I only opened the thread because I wanted to see if people would call for her head the way they (rightfully) have for Woody Allen, Roman Polanski and Bryan Singer. Or would they just give it a free pass because "feminism" or whatever she and Bouncy have done to warp the term. What would be the reaction if Bouncy was accused of molesting Blue Ivy, or Kim Karkrash accused of molesting North West? Heck, what if Taylor Not-So-Swift did something to her cat? Would people come out of the woodwork to defend them against "haters"?

[MADem]

152. In Boardwalk Empire, that business with the Commodore's abuse of young girls was viewed,

universally, as horrible. It was never celebrated. Nucky had deep regrets as regards his role in that and that became very clear over the course of the series. Gillian's depraved conduct stemmed from the way that she was abused as a child and that is a clearly developed part of the tale.

It wasn't presented as "Ha, ha, oh well, that's just the way it is." There was a POV to that issue.

I don't know if Lena's medical issues are the same as her character's in the HBO program, but if they are, perhaps she wasn't diagnosed and medicated at the time of these events. Perhaps her judgment was skewed.

I do know I'm uninterested in her book after seeing these snippets, and I agree with the "TMI" crowd.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

174. As a mom of daughters

I can say with about 100% certainty that no one year old baby girl or one year and eleven months old baby girl
ever stuck several pebbles in her vagina. Ears? Yes. Nose? Yes. Vagina? Hell, no.

One of my daughters masturbated from a very early "toddler" age, but I can still promise you that she didn't even know of the existence of her vagina. She rubbed the part that felt good; she didn't stick anything into a hole she didn't know existed.

[Lee-Lee]

33. All this concern about Lena- can you imagine being her sister right now

She essentially has victimized her sister all over again putting this out there for the world to see- in a plea for more attention for Lena.

If any of this was to be told, it should be her sisters decision and not hers.

[B2G]

35. She also revealed her sister is gay

Provided all of the details of her coming out.

I don't know if that was common knowledge prior to the book either. I would certainly hope she had her permission to write about it.

[Lee-Lee]

63. That's gonna give the fundies all kinds of ammo for the "pedophiles make kids gay" BS

Just great.

[RiffRandell]

129. Her sister was already out. nt

[tammywammy]

134. Lena outted her to their mother.

I don't think Lena is all that respectful of her sister's privacy.

WELP! We see that here in 3 very personal instances: pebble-gate, bribing for kissing and masturbating next to her in bed. When you add to the fact that Lena outed her sister to her mother, you see that she does not recognize her sister’s agency and that she’s a completely different entity who has the right to keep her secrets to herself. And that Lena is a bit of a self-centered twerp.

“Basically, it’s like I can’t keep any of my own secrets and I consider Grace to be an extension of me, and therefore I couldn’t handle the fact that she’s a very private person with her own value system and her own aesthetic and that we do different things.” (from After Ellen)

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2014/11/lena-dunham-memoir.html

[RiffRandell]

137. I've never liked her.

I think her show and talent are completely overrated.

[tammywammy]

141. I've never watched the show, nor did I really know anything about her.

That statement from her sister pretty much makes me think Lena is super shitty.

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. I'm wondering if Lena Dunham was molested.

A great deal of her persona and her body of work is devoted to sex and sexuality. Now that she's outed herself as a pedophile, I wonder if someone did something to her.

[Comrade Grumpy]

39. "Outed herself as a pedophile." Good Lord.

[Dreamer Tatum]

41. Oh, I'm sorry. She's hip, edgy, and "empowered."

My mistake.

Now, if a MAN wrote that memoir...oy, the bandwidth.

[Dreamer Tatum]

93. Just assume she's Lena Palin, not Lena Dunham

and you'll come around real quick.

[VanillaRhapsody]

143. a 7 yr old pedophile?

[AverageJoe90]

165. IDTS, either. C'mon now. (*facepalm*).

Truthfully, I don't doubt there's some issues that could be checked out, but last I checked, 7 year olds were minors too.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. a seven year old is not a predator for being inquisitive about genitalia.

wtf is wrong with people. so many young kids play doctor for exactly these reasons.

you may not like her, but accusing a seven year old of being a pedophile is some shitty ass behavior (not aimed at the OP but at people in general)

[B2G]

51. I'm semi-inclined to give her a pass on the incidents

when she is 7. Semi. A 2nd grader should know better but at a minimum there are some serious parenting questions going on if this was 'within the spectrum of things she did'.

Masturbating next to you kid sister when you're 17 however....

She made it quite clear that she wanted her there.

[Atman]

53. Bingo.

I played "doctor" once, when I was about 6 or 7. BFD. We looked, we moved on, we went and caught snakes and stuff. You have to have a twisted perspective to see childhood curiosity as pedophilia. That is just messed up.

[Orrex]

58. "Playing doctor" does not involve using a "predator's tactics to woo" another child

To dismiss this as "childhood curiosity" is to ignore the author's description of the behavior.

And, as stated several times in the thread, if a male actor/writer had made a similarly "innocent" admission about exploring his "childhood curiosity" with a much younger sister, I suspect that we wouldn't be seeing such an effort to excuse it.

[TM99]

59. Boundary violations are boundary violations.

What this young woman did as a child is not normal age appropriate sexual exploration. A couple of seven year old's exploring their bodies? Sure. A seven year old exploring her one year old sister's body? No. Preteens playing 'kissing' games. Sure. A preteen bribing her younger sister to play 'kissing' games. No.

Seven year old boys are suspended from elementary school for kissing classmate girls against their wishes.

If a man wrote this in a memoir, he would most certainly be accused of being sexually inappropriate and for good reason.

This woman obviously has some issues that need dealt with. To excuse and glorify it is hypocrisy at its worst!

[B2G]

60. And I still can't get past picturing a 1 year old, in a diaper,

taking off, or reaching into her diaper and inserting pebbles into her vagina. In what world would that happen? Her nose? Maybe...but inside a secured diaper??

1 year olds don't have that dexterity. Or that inclination.

I'm honestly wondering how those pebbles got there in the first place.

[ecstatic]

155. The age/power difference is the troubling part, not the exploration part.

I'm 7 years older than my brother, and 2 yrs older than my sister. At no point did I "explore" on them. This was despite having had my curiosity piqued by random sex books I found around the house (and even seeing a clip or two of porn).

That being said, it sounds like she might have been molested or something.

[Tsiyu]

104. Isn't this place hilarious?

NO SEX FOR YOU!

Let's muzzle women a bit more, shall we? As tomorrow, I have to vote to help fight to keep Rightwing politicians out of women's vaginas, let's find a woman to DEMONIZE!!! because she talks about things she did as a dumb kid.

Please, some of you, never read TIFU on reddit. Your AGHAST-O-Meters might go nuts and fizzle.


BAD BAD GIRL, LENA!

[TM99]

178. Muzzle Women?

WTF? Seriously?

This woman has some obvious issues. I won't speculate as to what. But what is reported is not normal childhood sexual exploration.

But hey she is a 'feminist' and was just a dumb kid. Dumb girls will be girls, eh?

If this were a male, Democrat or not, there would be a holy shit storm about this. If anyone said, well, boys will be boys. He was young and dumb, bad bad Bobby, well....holy shit storm.

This isn't about pearl clutchers and adult sexual behavior. This is about a woman who was inappropriately sexual with her sister and violated boundaries.

Muzzle women? Yeah, right!

[tritsofme]

49. What did she expect the reaction to be? A high five? A chuckle?

Very bizarre.

[ARMYofONE]

56. Way beyond normal childhood curiosity

It's perfectly normal to be curious about the human body. This goes way beyond that. And why speak of it like some fond childhood memory? Gross.

And I'm equally as disturbed that she notes her parents said nothing as this was "within the spectrum of things that I did." WTF parents? How about saying, "honey, it's okay to be curious about your little sister's body, but it's not okay to touch her vagina, or anybody else's private parts, okay?"

[AverageJoe90]

146. I do think it's possible that she may need some therapy.

Even so, however, there are, no doubt, going to be plenty of MRAs and other reactionary assholes falling all over this, and yelling, "See? Feminists bad! Derpy derp.".....

[Seeking Serenity]

61. If this can serve as the denouement of her excrutiating 15 minutes,

and will serve to escort her back to highly privileged NYC anonymity, then some good will have come from all this sordidness.

[Jamastiene]

102. Thank you.

Well said!

[Boom Sound 416]

62. Bu bye baby

[jollyreaper2112]

65. ugh

I find professional freak shows to be tiresome, artists who aren't creating anything interesting, have nothing to say or contribute, are just creating a spectacle out of their personal lives. She seems like a kindred spirit with Amanda Palmer. Privileged, upper class, controversial in boring, conventional ways, who are encouraged to spread their personal drama to the read of us. "Look at me! Look at me!" Given that we exist in a weird hybrid of a commercial and patronage system, it's hard to say just how much demand there is for her out there. If people are willingly paying for it, they're welcome to it. I just wish that the second-hand culture would stay downwind from me.

The worst part is that she's basically a chunk of sodium to drop in the fish tank of popular culture; an explosion is inevitable. It's about as calculated as Madonna saying something filthy about Christianity. "Nobody's paying any attention to me. I'll say naked men on crosses are sexy. Hello? Hello?"

[hedgehog]

74. I think you've got it right.

[Skittles]

114. yup

I am especially disturbed when I am accused of being sexually repressed because I find such "honesty" to be less than refreshing

[JI7]

149. pretty much, the worse is you get what is supposed to be serious news reporting on it

and claiming how shocking and daring or whatever the fuck it was when it's just boring attention whoring.

[alp227]

66. Sometimes, you gotta wonder if progressives need to disavow those who make us look bad.

Whether Bill Maher for his bigotry against women and Muslims or Lena Dunham for skirting the line of sexual politeness. Who else thinks that Dunham has forfeited her "I can stand against rape" card?

[Puzzledtraveller]

69. I was a victim of sexual abuse

my dad's girlfriend when I was 5 who used to make me take showers with her when my dad was at work and sit in the car naked in the garage. I recall threatening to tell my dad one day and she then took me to the mall and bought me a bunch of Star Wars figures. I didn't recall the details of this until recently and at 41, only my wife knows at this time. I feel like there were other things she had done but I would need help extracting those memories. The other incident was being routinely molested by an older boy when I was 11, he was the son of one of my dads business partners.

[AverageJoe90]

140. "You gotta wonder if progressives need to disavow those who make us look bad." Yes, I agree.........

But unfortunately, there's people out there whose actions are doing a lot more damage to us than Dunham's poor choice of wording ever could do.....Ta-Nehisi Coates and Chauncey De Vega are a few good examples to start with. So are all those "all white people are racist/black people can't be racist" morons on Tumblr, or the people who've been pushing that "all men are potential rapists" crap that's been floated around, etc.....but nobody really talks about that, it seems.

Frankly, even Maher couldn't do that kind of damage, and I was genuinely put off by his anti-Muslim comments. If we're going to start with disavowing people, Lena Dunham can wait. There's bigger fish to fry.....

[alp227]

153. Who really says "all white people are racist/black people can't be racist"?

Or are you buying right wing spin?

[AverageJoe90]

163. No right-wing spin here at all.

Sorry to say, but either you haven't come across the information I have, or you're not paying any attention to what's around you.

At least for the former, here's one good example- check the title on this comment on a certain thread from last week:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025734379#post132

And I *could* eventually dig up quite a bit more for you, but I don't have the time to search for the probably many dozens of comments I've seen like this over the past year or so. But this, alone, is proof that such sentiments are out there, and, sadly, this isn't limited to just a few individuals here and there.

[XemaSab]

167. I found this link much more interesting reading

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=averagejoe90%20radfem

[nomorenomore08]

166. Ta-Nehisi Coates? Seriously?

The guy writes eloquently and honestly about difficult, painful issues, and you consider that a strike against him?

[Blue_Tires]

68. Whoa...Didn't an editor somewhere try to take her aside

and say "maybe this passage isn't something you want to print"??

[Live and Learn]

76. Exactly. Not everything needs to be shared. nt

[Dorian Gray]

71. I think what she wrote

was problematic. I also think other people are jumping on it because they don't like her.

If I were her sister, I don't think that I'd appreciate how she speaks about me. I believe she was quoted as saying that her whole life she associated with gay people and was disappointed that she wasn't gay. When her sister came out, she was so pleased that someone in her family represented her feelings.

It's good to be supportive of your sister. It's kind of not cool to make it all about her.

Which is what she writes on her show. Generation ME and all that.

[bemildred]

79. Ms Dunham certainly knows how to draw attention to herself.

I would want to know what the sister thinks about all this now, before forming an opinion about whether Ms Dunham is "troublesome" or merely naive and self-absorbed.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

82. Her 15 minutes are almost up

She's a one trick pony, sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex.....wash, rinse, repeat. She has no other material.

[Seeking Serenity]

86. She's not one of mine!

No, thank you. You can have her.

Ew.

[B2G]

90. Democrats support the sexual abuse of children?

Go back to Freeperville.

[B2G]

98. Expression? Of what?

This has nothing to do with gay or transgendered people and to try to insinuate it does is frankly mind boggling.

[m-lekktor]

96. yeah. that one is pretty obvious. nt

[B2G]

105. You are equating Gay and Transgendered people with sexual abuse

I think you should just stop now...when you're...'ahead'.

[B2G]

112. WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH GAY PEOPLE??

Nevermind, you're whacked.

I'm craving a large deluxe for dinner.

[B2G]

122. Fat jokes? Really?

You are adorbs.

[tblue37]

133. That sounds like a NAMBLA slogan. nt

[closeupready]

101. +1. Very amateurish, lol.

After a few years of this, you can smell the pizza coming from miles away, lol.

[m-lekktor]

109. tying this sort of thing to "teh gay"

number 1 RW talking point.

[Jamastiene]

106. VERY obvious.

I'm surprised MIRT hasn't already gotten to that one.

[m-lekktor]

115. the Che avatar is a dead giveaway

every time!

[B2G]

123. Presonally, I think we need a Freud avatar.

[Seeking Serenity]

120. They sure are taking their time with this one. (n/t)

[Seeking Serenity]

100. DNFT!

Just don't.

[LordGlenconner]

111. She's crazier than a box of frogs

[DonCoquixote]

128. so let's see what plays out

Right wing attacks left wing woman
Centrist wing advioses caution, which becoems code for "wait until the evidence 80 percent looks like guilty,so we can disown her and tell people that good little leftist only do things our way."
Left wing feels abadononed

No one then speaks on social issues.

[Tsiyu]

131. It always works

was just talking to my daughter about this.

Democrats have let their shame turn them into spineless blobs of insincerity who only care about image.

There is zero loyalty for anyone in this party if they don't make us look like wholesome, white bread Christians.

No tats, no sexuality, no ethnicity, no personality.

Pretend you are all Rightwing Republicans so we can get elected please! And then Democrats wonder why no one votes for Democrats.

Phony, judgmental, smug fakers afraid to tackle the real problems of real people do not get elected by sincere people. Those people just stay home.

[B2G]

132. Democrats are 'spineless blobs?

Because most of us don't condone sexual conduct with children?

If Lena had been a 17 year old boy sleeping with and jacking off next to his 10 year old sister, the outrage would be heard around the world and most likely you would be screaming one of the loudest.

Guess what that makes you?

[AverageJoe90]

145. Re:"fakers afraid to tackle the real problems of real people do not get elected by sincere people."

Sad but true. Unfortunately, it's a still a major problem on the activism front, in particular.

[AverageJoe90]

135. The right definitely hates feminists, of any sort, no doubt.

I'd bet that a whole bunch of these assholes attacking her where either MRAs or quite sympathetic to them.....in any case, who else has noticed that hardcore RWers often scream about liberal alleged "abuse" while they often ignore, or in some more extreme cases, condone, *actual* abuse, whenever they think they can get away with it?

[kjones]

158. "condone, *actual* abuse..."

Sound's a lot like "legitimate rape" to me...

[AverageJoe90]

162. You're kidding me, right?

Because a lot of Right-Wingers actually DO condone abuse, or at least the physical, and/or emotional kind. And some of them even don't mind being hypocrites.....they'll bash liberals for that very same thing, whenever they think they can get away with such, no matter how far from the truth it may be.

Next time, I suggest you try to read the comment you're replying to for more than just a second or two, before posting said reply.

[XemaSab]

168. Must be hard to have most of your posts misunderstood

n/t

[kjones]

180. I don't think I misunderstood it.

You don't think this is a case of "*actual*" abuse...

Guess you and her have something in common when it comes
to how much you like what you wrote to be read as you
wrote it.

[AverageJoe90]

181. Yes, you did.

Guess you and her have something in common when it comes
to how much you like what you wrote to be read as you
wrote it.

I'm not sure I can make sense of this bit of rambling here, but it seems to be a personal dig. Don't appreciate that, btw, since it wasn't called for.

[AngryAmish]

148. May I also say the name Lena Dunham sounds like a long suffering fiance in a Lovecraft story.

[LostInAnomie]

157. Rubbing one off while laying beside your 10 year old sister is sick.

Why is anyone defending her?

[Puzzledtraveller]

169. My theory. (opinion)

Some people have become so partisan (politically and culturally) that any rebuke somehow means they are in agreement with their opposition, which they can't have.

[vankuria]

160. Why on earth

does someone write about these things and then when the public responds in disgust, they're surprised?? I mean isn't this more information than anyone needs to know about Lena Dunham?

I don't know what the heck to make of her writings, whether they're true, fantasy, fabrications, whatever, but whoever reads it has the right to their opinion and she brought this on herself.

[MadrasT]

164. Who the hell is that and why would anyone care? n/t

[PAProgressive28]

172. Hello there fellow PA'er

Happy Corbett Out day

[PAProgressive28]

171. Another one of these people who "represents" liberals

I'm tired of it. Really f-ing tired of it. This is the stuff the right-wing nuts on Twitter live for. She didn't represent me even before this came out. She's another one of these celebrities who supported Obama so she automatically becomes not just a rep for the Democrats but for everyone on the left.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

176. +1

I have nothing against her because she is privileged, but I don't see why someone with little talent, shallow opinions, and a rather bigoted view of the world from her lofty digs in NYC gets to be a figurehead for democrats and women, in general.

[840high]

177. ...^ that

[AverageJoe90]

182. Yes, I agree, but again, there's people whose actions are hurting us worse in that regard.

See post 140, and get back to me then.

[Quantess]

179. Whoever she is, I think she's a disgusting, annoying creep.

Just knowing that she wrote that in her autobiography makes me despise her. That is all I need to know about her.

[Tsiyu]

183. Funny how we judge

the classics...how does something get to rise above the common, base retelling of human experience to become DAZZLING ART.


http://www.mrc.org/articles/statutory-rape-road

Statutory Rape On The Road

The film adaptation of Jack Kerouac’s famous 1957 beat generation novel “On the Road” hits theaters on Dec. 21, and audiences will be treated to a variety of sex scenes involving Kristen Stewart’s 15 year-old-character Marylou.

“Kristen Stewart goes to bed with two men at the same time, gives both of them simultaneous hand jobs in the front seat of a car and performs oral sex on one of them while he's driving said car. She also appears topless twice, once just minutes into the movie, and spends much of the rest of her time doing drugs and robbing people,” Huffington Post’s Michael Hogan wrote in September.

Kerouac’s Marylou meets and marries “On the Road’s” central character Dean Moriarty at the age of 15, and The Denver Post reported that “On the Road” is a semi autobiographical tale of Kerouac’s life.

“Dean was based on the infamous beat-generation figure Neal Cassady, Sal on Kerouac, himself, and Marylou on LuAnne Henderson, who married Cassady in 1945 at age 15,” Rob Lowman reported.




Thank you, my dear young artist friend, with whom I had a lovely dinner tonight along with my daughter, for sharing this most perfect example of the complete sexism in denigrating Lena Dunham.

I will find as many examples of you people's "art" as I can, just to be sure we're all in agreement about what's appropriate!!!!

Keep watching this site for updates!










This thread is a hoot.

Lena Dunham, you are an awesome, talented, cool person. Keep on keeping on....