P.S.A. 'Tranny' is incredibly offensive to the LGBTIQ community.

[xchrom]

perhaps you don't know it.

perhaps you use it to get under the skin of LGBTIQ folks who you think too 'activist' about their issues.

perhaps you think some other unsavory things about the LGBTIQ folks.

but here's the Public Service Announcement -- 'tranny' is like using the n* word or any number of other racially charged or sexist charged words.

personally i'm skeptical that DUers don't know that -- but just in case.

[hedgehog]

1. Kick for visibility

[KamaAina]

2. 'Tranny' is slang for an auto transmission

the word is 'transman' or 'transwoman' respectively.

[hlthe2b]

3. I agree with you... I just hope...

you have better luck with compliance on this than we did with getting some here to stop with the "c" word.

[snooper2]

4. Why don't you just post a video? Video's work better

See

[TalkingDog]

7. +1

The negativity of any word depends on 2 people buying into that negativity; the person saying it and the person offended by it.

[hlthe2b]

9. In video, she makes a point about natural tendency to shorten, use slang, etc.

and frequently uses the term "trans" instead.

I would like to know how the GLBTIQ community feels about the term "trans"?



As to the video itself, clearly no groups members will all agree, but I think if there is still a majority of disagreement with respect to using a term or word, it shouldn't be used.

[Fearless]

36. "Trans" is frequently used as a catch all

For transgendered and transsexual people. I don't think it holds a negative connotation unless used in a negative way. Others may disagree. In the end we should just aim to call people what they feel like they should be called.

[Staph]

5. Thanks for the information.

I've trained a few transgendered folks over the years, but the subject of what they would prefer to be called never came up.

Small boast -- I have gotten a few compliments, because I treated my students according to the gender that they displayed. I don't think that's a big deal. It's just the behavior that was taught to me as a child -- treat others as you would like to be treated. In my family, that's called being a good christian, though others on this board assume that all christians are evangelical fundamentalists. Your mileage may vary.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. And some say that the term "transgendered" is questionable as well

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/11379657

For many the nomenclature rarely comes up since it does not matter in what most of us do day to day. For example, computers don't care about your gender, neither do motorcycles, airplanes, nor firearms.

Some people use the term T* to cover all the permutations which I have never heard a serious objection to...

Keep it respectful seems to be the right thing to do regardless.

[Staph]

37. Sorry about that.

To my ear, "transgendered" is the adjectival form of the noun "transgender". But I'm frequently told that I'm on the side of the grammar Nazis!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

85. I would not apologize...

The overly nuanced citation from GLAAD is almost amusing or insulting, it you are aware of some of the history.

Again, respectful treatment will be clear in context and appreciated. The T* community has been known to get it from all sides at times.

[MelissaB]

6. I had no idea, so don't sell DUers short.

I have gay friends and family members and they never mentioned this. I do know that it isn't offensive in the adult industry, but most things aren't. As a matter of fact, it's a top producing domain for many people/sites. I mean... so I've been told.

My apologies for not knowing.

[Iris]

17. Me, either. That's why I hang out at DU!

[Dragonbreathp9d]

29. Not did I and I am incredibly involved with the LGBT community

[OneGrassRoot]

31. My apologies as well. I wasn't certain...

and thus wouldn't use the term, but wouldn't automatically think badly of others who have.

Thanks for the information (though I did learn earlier today in my long thread).

[Luminous Animal]

35. Neither did I. Maybe because I frequent the San Francisco Tranny Shack shows and events.

http://www.trannyshack.com/

[CTyankee]

8. I find that usage incredibly offensive, altho I've only seen it in print, not heard it spoken.

Melissa Harris Perry had a segment on it, interviewing two transexual people. It was a wonderful discussion of how non-transexuals react to those who are. I was so impressed with Harris Perry that she did this. It is a pleasure to watch her show and Chris Hayes's on Saturday and Sunday. I hope more people will watch them. They discuss things you will NEVER see on other shows. They are real trailblazers...

[hlthe2b]

10. What date was that? Perhaps it is archived as video on their website?

[CTyankee]

13. It was on yesterday. Go to msnbctv.com and click on her show. The segment should be on

there. I came into it late so I didn't catch the full segment.

[hlthe2b]

14. thanks... Good on her for tackling some of these subjects.

[CTyankee]

18. She is utterly cool, in the best sense of the word.

A lot of this she teaches in her classes at Tulane. I love to hear her speak about her students. I love it that those kids will be our future, they will replace us as we age out and die. It makes me feel better to think of them and how they, too, will fight as we did and carry on this struggle for understanding and caring.

[maddezmom]

32. here is the link and hope everyone takes a look

MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry Highlights Trans, LGB Inequalities

http://www.glaad.org/blog/msnbcs-melissa-harris-perry-highlights-trans-lgb-inequalities#

or

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/melissa-harris-perry/46419672#47054424

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Since the only places outside of car repair shops I've ever hard the term used...

were in porn or by trans... themselves, I can't help but wonder just who decides terms like this are offensive.

Some words we know are offensive because they have always been used in a negative and insulting way, but now we're seeing all sorts of words as suddenly offensive with no history of bigotry.

Are there meetings to decide what's offensive? Do the offended parties vote on it? And how do the rest of us know what the offensive word of the day is-- are press releases sent out or is it on Facebook?

It's really confusing.

[MineralMan]

12. Yup. It's another offensive, bigoted expression.

I don't understand anyone who defends the use of such words on DU. It's so easy to use words that are not slurs that it's hard to see the use of a word that is a slur in any other way.

Since DU has members of many sub-groups of society, slurs against any of those sub-groups is simply not acceptable on what is a progressive forum.

Any of those subgroups. And all of them. That's my opinion.

[tkmorris]

16. You might want to sit this one out

Just sayin'.

[MineralMan]

20. Nope. I've been supporting LGBT rights strongly for several years

now, and I'm still doing that. Marriage equality is one of my primary issues right now, and no candidate who doesn't fully support them gets any support from me. I'm not going to stop supporting those rights for anyone. Sorry. Read what I'm saying in 2012. It's the same thing I've been saying for some time.

Just sayin'...

[Initech]

33. I agree - we need an equal rights amendment.

The marriage amendment that the fundamentalists are salivating over will lead to some truly truly dangerous and evil shit - if that amendment is ever passed - we can kiss women's rights goodbye, we can kiss GLBT rights goodbye - you name it. It would establish the American Taliban as the ruling class.

Equal rights for all. There should be *ZERO* debate about this.

[MineralMan]

46. It's going to be on the ballot in Minnesota in November.

I mean one of those phony marriage amendments. The campaign against it is already growing. We need national marriage equality, and we also need to re-introduce the ERA and get it done this time.

[Bluenorthwest]

97. I just wanted to ask again. This exchange where you said 'decades' of support for

equality while you smirked and lectured me. Why did you lie? And also why take that nattering tone while lying? Decades? Well, you admitted that is simply not the case, yet you did not yet apologize for the lies, nor for how you addressed many DUers including myself as part of how you sold the lies.
Decades.
And you do not so much as stand up and say 'I am sorry I did that to you'.
Instead you poke, and poke, and harp that you are keeping a list. Putting the anti gay stuff aside for a moment, the lying to our faces and acting insulted when the truth was pointed out, rather than admitting it, those are issues of interpersonal honesty that are not related to any political or social position or policy. A person who lies to me without a hint of regret will not get my respect no matter what, no matter who, no matter why. It is the one thing I do not play patsy cake with.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. And yet last year you said to me....

"So, your pointing out of this single issue is more or less irrelevant in my decision, and will be in 2012, too. Despite my firm support for marriage equality, which I have expressed for decades, I will not vote for or against a President solely on the basis of that issue."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2091009&mesg_id=2091321

Of course we know the 'for decades' part is not true. So I hope DU looks at that thread. Takes a look.
For Decades, he says to me.....

[Hassin Bin Sober]

90. "For Decades" UN.Mitigaded.Gaul

[tkmorris]

67. Hey, I just don't think this is a good topic for you

But if really want to keep at it, you just go on wit yo bad self. *I* have a difficult time seeing you as a champion for LGBT rights, but ya never know.

Rock on MineralMan.

[EFerrari]

26. Good grief.

[obamanut2012]

75. lol

[woo me with science]

49. Poke, poke, poke.

[Poll_Blind]

54. Tell me about. Could there really be a DUer who does not read that message that does...

...not think the same thing?

It's weird.

PB

[NYC Liberal]

15. It's one thing to genuinely not know that a term is offensive.

But once you are made aware, then you need to respect that, yes, it is.

If you continue to use a term that you've been told is offensive, then you're just being purposely provocative and an asshole.

[maddezmom]

101. ^^^^^^this^^^^^

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. Honestly, I did not know. But then, it is a term I never used to begin with.

Thanks for the head's up on this. I would not to step on toes inadvertently.

[dbackjon]

22. K&R

[EFerrari]

23. I didn't know.

No one has ever used it to me IRL and I've only ever seen it here. So, thanks to the DUers that are fixing this deficit.

[BoWanZi]

24. As far as I'm concerned, a "tranny" is a slang term for a car or truck transmission.

[madinmaryland]

43. That was what I thought. When I rebuilt my Chevy Monte Carlo's engine

a few years ago, they were surprised I had a Turbo 400 tranny. But then again it was 454-big block, so that would explain everything. Got it rebuilt and there was nothing smoother!!

Had a professional rebuild the tranny.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

88. Depends entirely on context

There was a classic thread here a while back about the word "jig". Same sort of thing

[MadrasT]

25. Thanks for this

I do think some folks in real life really don't know this (even though it seems obvious to some of us).

[RC]

27. Gotta keep the people agitated.

Instead of letting this slip back out of sight, from whence it came, keep re-posting it. That'll help make you friends.
At least it doesn't have a "ed" on the end of it, correct?

The people using that word the most here are the people offended by it. Give it a rest and it will go away on its own.

[The Philosopher]

41. Aren't you supposed to be for education and against censorship?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=76821

Your new post now makes your position confusing. Why should the OP have no written the post informing people what is offensive? That isn't censorship; that's education.

[demmiblue]

52. Good point! n/t

[yardwork]

71. Will racism go away on its own? Will sexism? Will people suddenly wake up one morning and share?

Please.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

74. LOL. yes, that's exactly how bigotry works. you ignore it, and magically it goes away

[maddezmom]

96. Give it a rest and it will go away on its own?

I can't tell if you are serious or just being ignorant. Hopefully the latter.

[ieoeja]

28. The difference between "tranny" and "nigger": bigots do not use the former.

I have never, ever read/heard the word tranny used outside the gay community except in reference to a transmission.

Never. Not once. I know plenty of anti-gay bigots, and I can absofuckinglutely guarantee you that if I used that word in reference to a transexual they would have no idea whatsoever that I was referring to a transexual. I'm talking about people who say, "I'd kill a man if he propositioned me." The haters who give extremely graphic descriptions of what they imagine gay sex to be like. People who seem to want to learn everything they can about gays just so they can have more to hate.

That stated, I will, of course, not use it. But out of curiosity, is this a word used *inside* the gay community as an insult? Is that where the offensive nature of the word originated?


By the way *this* is exactly why you should *not* be skeptical that DUers didn't know this. Because the word simply is not used outside the gay community.

[Fearless]

38. I have heard it used pejoratively.

Typically as the phrase "tranny bitch" or something like that describing what the person considers an "unattractive" or "manlike" woman.

[HiPointDem]

56. I've heard it used pejoratively, but only by people in the gay club milieu 30 years ago. Never

heard anyone use it outside that milieu except in literature. And though I can't remember the specifics, I think the literature was written by people from that milieu.

[obamanut2012]

76. I sure have

[bluedigger]

30. Okay, but there needs to be a rule.

Every time a word gets removed from public discourse because it has become laden with negative context by an offended group, they should provide a new, acceptable word for informal usage.

[FreeState]

65. Fine - call them people n/t

[bluedigger]

66. And if wishes were horses everybody would ride. n/t

[Warpy]

34. The only time I use the word "tranny"

is to describe the gizmo in a car that allows you to go from 0 to 75 MPH.

"Drag" and "Trans" do it for me for the respective situations and I rarely use the latter.

[libodem]

39. What does the Q

Stand for? If it is what I think? I remember a story my mom told about having to tell my grandfather he couldn't use it in any context. Maybe no one should.

[xchrom]

40. Queer or Questing.

There are folk who don't associated w/ labels.
Queer is their chosen term.

[Luminous Animal]

42. And I remember when "queer" was verboten.

[HiPointDem]

72. Me too. A word you only used if you meant to insult someone.

[Luminous Animal]

81. During the planning of the 1993 San Francisco Pride Parade, there

was a huge community argument when it was proposed that we call it Year of the Queer. The younger LGBTTIQ community was mostly for it, the older... not.

But it did pass and I think it is a good thing.

[HiPointDem]

82. which kinda illustrates the point: older people tended to still feel the sting of the word; younger

people who'd grown up in an "out" culture, not so much, and embraced/detourned the word (& were able to embrace it) because the larger culture had changed and consequently 'being queer' was a different experience than it used to be. The culture didn't changed because people generally stopped using the word "queer" negatively, though.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

91. or Questioning

Never seen the Q in LGBTQ standing for queer but could see that too

[WhoIsNumberNone]

44. Just looked it up on Urban Dictionary

Apparently it can mean either "queer" or "questioning". Actually UD has it as 'LGBTIQQ' to include both- a little surprising to me, since I always understood "queer" to be a slur. Somebody want to fill me in on the difference between 'gay' and 'queer', and when 'queer' became acceptable?

And while we're at it, when did "tranny" stop meaning "transvestite"?

[xchrom]

47. You're confusing transgendered w/ transvestite.

Not at all - nor has it ever been - the same.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

48. I'm not confusing it- that's the reason for the question

When I was growing up "tranny" meant "transvestite"- not "transgendered". I know the difference.

[xchrom]

53. Bullshit. Never, ever has it been the same.

And this looks and smells like obvious bigotry to me.

[ElboRuum]

55. Wait...

I don't think the poster was suggesting that "transvestite" and "transgendered" mean the same thing. In fact, I think he/she was suggesting quite the opposite. I believe the confusion is to which "tranny" applies because, in his/her experience, it means/meant the former.

[demmiblue]

57. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=285085

[obamanut2012]

77. OMG

I was surprised there wasn't a PRR when I clicked on the profile.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

58. Am I talking to the wall here?

Where did I ever say it was the same? I said the meaning appears to have changed. Just for laughs, I searched the word "tranny" on Wikipedia. Guess what their definition is?

Society and culture
Slang term for Transvestite, a person who wears clothing traditionally associated with the opposite sex. See also: Drag Queen

Pejorative term for:

Transgender, a general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies to vary from culturally conventional gender roles
Transsexual, an individual who identifies with a gender inconsistent or not culturally associated with his or her assigned sex
Trans woman, a male-to-female transsexual or transgender person
Trans man, a female-to-male transsexual or transgender person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny

So evidently it can mean either, but until very recently I had always understood it to mean a cross-dresser.

[xchrom]

59. Wiki is major Lame authoritative link for

Just about anything.

Tranny has never, ever been a replacement for Drag.

Tranny is a bigoted phrase referring to transgendered folk.

[HiPointDem]

62. My memory accords with the poster's. I remember when Christine Jorgenson was front-page,

because sex-change was an unheard-of-thing. And tranny meant a cross-dresser, a transvestite.

[Luminous Animal]

63. Up until two years ago, the Transgender Film Festival was called Tranny Fest...

http://www.freshmeatproductions.org/tranny-fest-transgender-film-festival

[xchrom]

64. It was offensive then too.

But people - even LGBTIQ people - confuse trans w/ aspects of Drag.

Don't bring in 'our' understanding and evolving (for a very long time) w/ media.

[muriel_volestrangler]

98. Dictionaries - Australian and British

Macquarie Dict: "trannie Colloquial - 1. a transsexual. 2. a transvestite. Also, tranny"
Collins English Dict: "trannie or tranny - a transvestite"
Penguin English Dict: "tranny or trannie - informal = transvestite"

All 3 dictionaries list when a word is considered derogatory (eg for 'Jap', which, in another discussion, was pointed out as another offensive shortening), and none do for this word.

I cannot find an American dictionary online (Urban Dicionary doesn't count) that list the word, to see what the general usage in the USA has been. But, in other English-speaking countries, it has not always been regarded as offensive. Here's the Oxford English Dictionary:

trannie

slang.

A transvestite.

1983 The Mag. Apr. 23/3 Guys needn't worry‥unless they look as if they're cruising or mistake a ‘trannie’, most of whom are a lot more glamorous than the real girls.
1984 B. McConville & J. Shearlaw Slanguage of Sex (1985) 256/1 Trannie, transvestite. An affectionate abbreviation, in vogue amongst sections of the gay community.
1990 Gay Times July 47 By 11pm they seem drunkenly immune to the influx of trannies, trendies, and other creatures of the night.

It is clearly offensive now, but it has not always been so. And it was largely used to mean 'transvestite'. Here is an article about a discrimination case:

Trans woman wins complaint against newspaper for ‘tranny’ headline

Keira McCormack complained she had been deeply insulted by the November 1st 2009 article in the Sunday Life which described her as “burly”.
...
The article, titled ‘Tranny worked in rape centre’, was found to be discriminatory and in breach of Clause 12 (Discrimination) of the Editors’ Code of Practice.
...
McCormack said that the term ‘tranny’ was generally used by transvestites or cross-dressers but was deeply insulting to transgender people.

The PCC considered that the use of the word ‘tranny’ was a needless abbreviation which many found offensive.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/01/04/trans-woman-wins-complaint-against-newspaper-for-tranny-headline/

[xchrom]

99. Is 'Tranny' Offensive?

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/09/is_tranny_offensive.php


I'm happy to be a part of the Bilerico team now, and I thought I'd start off by reposting something I wrote in my own blog a couple weeks ago. It was inspired by a reoccurring conversation I've seen on several blogs, including this one, so it seemed fitting.

It always goes like this. A cis (non-trans) person tosses out the word 'tranny' in a comment. Then a trans person calls them out on it and tells them its a word that they shouldn't be using. Argument ensues over who's allowed to use what language, invariably, we hear "but my trans friends are okay with me using it." And usually the issue ends unresolved -- in my opinion, because no one discusses the history of the term or why it can have such a powerful negative impact.



It might appear to be a benign act of adding a "y" on the end to make the term more informal and cutesy (notice a similar transformation when changing "cute" to "cutesy&quot . From this perspective, why would it matter? No one will tell you "fag" or "faggot" are okay but "faggy" and "fagotry" aren't. However, there is a whole historical context to the term that isn't all that widely known, but is a huge part about what makes the term less appealing.

The term itself was first popularized within the porn industry. And while I'll be the last one to denigrate sexuality and pornography, the fact is that "tranny porn" is about as representative of trans people's sexuality as "girl-on-girl porn" is representative of lesbian sexuality. The usual context that it has been used in porn is to highlight how trans women are not really women, while also painting us as more exotic and sexually available.

So when the term became linked to the porn industry and popularized, it became a useful way to get a sense of someone's background with the community. If a cisgender person used the term "tranny" it probably meant that they got most of their knowledge of (or at least intro to) the trans community from the porn and sex industries, and perhaps didn't have your best interests at heart. This is also probably related to the creation of the term "tranny-chaser" as a way for the trans community to identify people who might take advantage of a trans person's relative vulnerability or see trans people only as a sexual commodity.

Why trans is in but tranny is out

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/30/trans-language-transgender

As a trans man or woman, you soon notice how many people have what Daffy Duck called 'pronoun trouble'.

No matter how supportive of your transition they claim to be, and how much well-intentioned advice they give you about your new hairstyle, or the name you always used in your head but only just told them about, they misgender you every other time they open their mouths, and get quite upset if you call them on it.

You're being too sensitive, they say, or it's too soon. Families, in particular, think it's too soon even after years. Getting your name right is a minimum requirement of respect - referring to you in the third person by the wrong pronoun means that respect is only superficial politeness.

I used to think that straight men particularly tended to misgender me if they were losing an argument; now I've seen them do it to trans men too. Misgendering is sometimes cluelessness, but more often it's quiet, hostile aggression, especially if we aren't gratefully deferential for whatever crumbs of acceptance we are thrown - if we speak up as freely as if we were actual, you know, human beings.

Oh, and a word to far too many columnists and pub philosophers: the only time 'it' is acceptable is with neutrois-identified people, some of whom regard it as mandatory. And if that's one rule too many to keep in your social vocabulary, well, tough.


What terminology is offensive to transgender people?

http://www.glaad.org/transgender

The following terms are usually considered offensive and/or defamatory to transgender people:

Transvestite
She-male
He-she
It
Trannie
Tranny
Shim

[donheld]

84. I always thought Tranny was short for that thing that makes a car go forward & backward.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

87. There are those who like the term T*

A little geeky, but it expresses well that there is a continuum and avoids a lot of the labels that have evolved over the years.

Its also pretty clear in context if a reference is respectful or not, even it is not plu perfect.

[hlthe2b]

94. Respectfully...

xchrom, I defer on these matters. I would never ever ever intentionally use a derogatory term towards any group. And, even those terms that have been "reclaimed," like "Queer" are just not terms I will ever use because they were used as slurs when I was growing up. Of course that applies to any number of other terms.

Having said that, the poster to whom you are responding didn't say there was no difference between transvestites and transgendered. Please re-read it, as I think you may have misinterpreted. They were saying that in their experience the term "tranny" (which I absolutely agree is a derogatory term) was used to refer to transvestites in the past. That was my experience growing up too over past decades and in areas as diverse as the far West, Mid-West, Mid-Atlantic states and the deep South, since I moved around a great deal in my youth. Maybe it was only used to refer to transgendered people in your area, but that was not my experience. Admittedly, I am certainly no authority on the subject, yet I have no stake in defending the other poster (who may well have said something previously that left you concerned), but just want to be fair. In this post, at least, they did not appear to be saying what I think you were interpreting.

That said, i can certainly understand the sensitivity and appreciate this thread. When we had our marathon of threads with some here defending the use of the "C" word towards women (whose sting I certainly felt growing up), I was absolutely incensed. Yet some here refuse to accept why it is so inappropriate--even some women (generally those too young to have had it used like a cudgeon against them in the workplace and to demean and belittle women in other contexts.

Good discussion here.

[quakerboy]

104. When I was a kid

Tranny meant transvestite. I didn't even know about transgendered until later in life.

Its not a word that comes up often in my life. I don't know if its a regional thing, or a time thing, or an uneducated kid thing, but until this discussion I would never have thought of "transgendered" if someone said "tranny".

[TriMera]

50. In my generation, I'm 45, queer was a slur. However,

language is a living and breathing thing; it changes. I always tell people that your best bet is to allow people to identify themselves and then just go with it. "Tranny" stopped meaning "transvestite" when people started using it at a pejorative for transgender people. If you know a transvestite who doesn't mind you calling him a "tranny", then call him that.

[Ms. Toad]

92. Here's at least a partial answer to your question about "queer"

from when someone asked a similar question earlier today: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=570159

[Tom Ripley]

51. It should be offensive to any adult

Besides being a slur, it's also "baby talk" like veggie, sammy, etc..

[derby378]

60. RuPaul has a song called TRANNY CHASER

I've listened to it. I think it's hilarious. RuPaul's aimed the song at all the "straight" guys who secretly think transvestites are hot.

What are you getting at?

[xchrom]

61. 1st Ru can be & is wrong in this instance

He's been called out by the trans community.

2nd - is the N* word justified ever?

[yardwork]

70. And some black people use the n word. That doesn't mean that white people get to use it.

[HiPointDem]

73. There's no comparison between the words though. The "n" word evolved specifically as a pejorative

used by whites.

"Tranny" evolved in the gay community, and I'm using "gay" loosely here, because all was lumped as "homosexual" back in the day. For the most part people outside that community didn't even *know* the word until circa late 70s and after.

As evidenced by this thread, a lot still don't.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

80. I was a bit surprised to learn how far back the word "transgender" dates

I'm quite sure I heard it for the first time no earlier than 2007 or 2008. Whereas I had heard the word "tranny" as far back as the 80s, and at the risk of being flamed AGAIN, in my experience it referred to a transvestite/ cross-dresser. And it's only been in the last couple of days here that I've witnessed what a radioactive word it is.

[HiPointDem]

83. I read the word "tranny" long before the 80s -- I keep thinking in some book along the lines of

Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2012, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)

"Last Exit to Brooklyn," only that wasn't the book (checked google) -- but it was something like that, from that era and of that ilk. Not the NYT best-seller list kind of book.

My memory is that I started hearing "transgender" around the 80s. Transsexual predated that.

Stonewall = 1969 & is kind of a dividing line as to how openly such things were discussed in major media (as opposed to academic press, underground press, specialty publishers, etc).

According to this source:

We must be careful with our words. 'Transvestite' originated in 1910 from the German sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld, who would later develop the Berlin Institute where the very first 'sex change' operations took place. 'Transsexual' was not coined until 1949, 'transgender' not until 1971, and 'trans' (a very British term) not until 1996. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first use of 'androgyne' was recorded in 1552, but it has only been in the last 10 years that people have claimed it for themselves to describe a state of being in-between, or having both genders. 'Polygender' is a late 1990s Californian invention used to describe a state of being multiple genders.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/02/brief-history-transgender-issues

[Rozlee]

110. I got corrected one time for using the term transvestite and cross-dresser

synonymously. A friend of mine was married to a man who crossed dressed and they had a pretty good marriage. They were pretty militant about his choice in wearing women's clothing and they'd sometimes go shopping while he was in various stages of women's dress (i.e. only with make-up and high heels or fully outfitted). This was twenty years ago and I've since moved back to Texas and haven't heard much from them except to get e-mails to pray for their sons in the Persian Gulf (they were very religious). But, they were very firm in trying to make me see the distinction in his choice of being a heterosexual man who merely enjoyed wearing women's clothing and got turned on by it instead of a homosexual man who wore female clothing as an expression of his own sexual identity.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

111. Point taken

I hadn't actually thought about it that way- I only used the expression 'cross-dresser' in an attempt to make it clear that I am not confusing 'transvestite' with 'transgender'.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

88. There have been times when it was certainly a slur, used by gays against T*s.

as well as time the T*s were thrown under the bus by the gay rights movement. Fortunately most of that is behind us today.

[yardwork]

102. The word is a slur, and the fact that its a slur used by some gay people is no excuse.

Yes, some gay people are bigoted against transgender people. That's terrible, and no better than straight people being bigoted against transgender people. The fact is that "tranny" is now understood to be a slur when used by anybody who is not transgender. They get to decide whether or not to use it. We don't.

[HiPointDem]

103. not disputing that's how it's often used now. just curious about how the use has evolved, as

my impression, & the impression i'm getting from the limited source material available, is that the term originated in the gay community, used to refer exclusively to transvestites, and wasn't specifically derogatory.

which would explain why it continued to be used nearly up to the present day, without complaint, for public, LGBT-friendly venues like "Trannyshack" or "Trannyfest".

[yardwork]

105. The "gay community" is not monolithic.

Unfortunately, some gay people are biased against transgender people. In the post-Stonewall gay rights movement, transgender rights have not been a high priority. For instance, DADT is repealed, but transgender people are still not allowed to serve in the U.S. military.

The fact that the word may have been used in the past, and by gay people, does not make it any less of a slur in present day usage. Words evolve, and so do people. Mark Twain used the n word throughout Huckleberry Finn.

[HiPointDem]

107. That's kind of my point. Not in space, not in time. The original poster's claim was that the

term was universally offensive to the community, always had been, and always referred to transgendered people.

I've never used the word or had any desire to. But I am interested in historical accuracy, so far as is possible.

[yardwork]

108. You'll have to discuss that with the OP. I speak for myself only.

[HiPointDem]

109. Not interesting in debating it or offending the poster, only in teasing out the history.

[Lucky Luciano]

68. I had no idea at all that tranny was considered offensive. nt

[yardwork]

69. Thank you.

[Poll_Blind]

78. I'm puzzled. I've only heard "tranny" used to mean a transvestite, but in looking over this...

...thread, it appears (maybe I'm wrong here?) that you're indicating the slang word "tranny" is a derogatory term for a transgendered person.

Is that correct?

I've never heard the slang word "tranny" used to reference anything other than a transvestite. Transgendered folks have always been referred to as "Trans" (adjective) where I grew up and live- Eugene, Oregon. Maybe it's because the gay people I know aren't, uh, politically correct or maybe it's because they're just as salty-mouthed as I am, but I've heard gay, lesbian, transgendered and transvestites all refer to transvestites as trannies. Sometimes endearingly, sometimes cattily.

But never as some "n*gger"-like slur. I mean...damn, I have no idea what you're talking about. And never to describe anything other than a transvestite. It has been like this since the early 90's.

I think the most alarming thing someone could do is go into a gay bar downtown and start referring to transvestites as "transvestites". When I live, that sort of thing is the same thing as walking into a gay bar and talking about all the "homo-sex-SHULS": Alarms start going off in people's heads about why you're in there.

I'm not making some argument that "tranny" is an acceptable word on DU or anything like that. What I am saying is where I live, it's not the kind of slur you're making it out to be. I find it really odd that there would be such a discrepancy between one part of the country and the other on this particular point but whatever. Out of curiosity, what part of the country do you live in?

I was talking with my girlfriend about this earlier and she brought up a good point: Some people choose to self-identify with certain labels and then other people interpret those labels in wildly different contexts.

PB

[TBF]

79. I didn't know -

but I found out today. Many of us are not activists, or maybe simply not as well-versed as we ought to be in some areas. I'm certainly always willing (and eager) to learn and I support equal rights for all LGBTIQ folks.

[Vanje]

86. K&R

Though it should be old news by now.

[Rex]

93. Should be, but it is not so people are learning

and that is a good thing imo. DU can be a good place to learn about others, I know I have over the years.

[JNelson6563]

95. Shows what I know.

Being a motor city girl, the world I come from, "tranny" is short for transmission. As in "Dude, bring a lot of money, you're going to need a new tranny."

Can't imagine ever applying it to a fellow human.

Julie

[RT Atlanta]

100. Bump & comment

Would like to go back to the days when "tranny" was most commonly understood to refer to the transmission in your car (that's what I still think of first when I hear the term - even when used derisevely).

[LanternWaste]

106. One would certainly think so.

"'Tranny' is incredibly offensive to the LGBTIQ community."
One would certainly think so without having to be told; but maybe that (thinking) is the missing qualifier for a lot of people.


"personally i'm skeptical that DUers don't know that -- but just in case..."
If I, one of the most cloistered and naive posters (re: the LGBTQ Community) on DU know it's bad form to use, I think it's safe to assume that anyone using it is simply trying to push the envelope.