Holy shit. A formerly rational old-school Republican wrote this...

[OneGrassRoot]

(Edit to add that this person is a relative, no one famous. I'm just sickened to see how, once again, the Fox News influence is frightening. Not sure why I'm posting this here, although many of us tend to share these opposing views here. I think I'm doing so to ensure I'm not the one who has lost my mind.)

This isn't a Limbaugh Republican -- at least this person never used to be. Reading this just now made me sick to my stomach seeing how much she loathes not only President Obama but anyone even remotely on "the left." I mean, she's sounding like she's in alignment with Allen West, for cryin' out loud. That's scary shit. (I will say that I have never viewed this person as a racist or bigot, even though I'm hyper alert to such things. This person is retired military, is on the local school board.)

President Obama and the blind love and adoration by the least intelligent and weakest among us.

Obama's appeal is primarily from those that are the least educated about the Constitution, Federalist Papers and our Founders. The most ignorant and least successful are his worshipers. There are large numbers of people (I feel the number is also growing) that look to the government rather than to within for help and assistance. President Obama is doing all he can to divide this country by achievers and non-achievers. people that work and those that do not work, by race and culture and by patriots and non-patriots. I feel he is a "LEGAL" citizen of the United States of America but do not feel he is an American in the true sense of the word. I know many of you will jump on the "birther mantra" when you read this which will further show your ignorance and blind love for Obama. Many will read over my words of him being a "LEGAL" citizen.

I feel Obama wants the United States to become a communist state. He is the complete antithesis of a free market capitalist and is against people being free. He wants a country that is controlled by the state and are subjects of the state. I have read both of his books. His father was a communist, he stated he gravitated to "Marxist professors" in college, he wants to redistribute wealth, he has appointed communist to his administration (Van Jones, Anita Dunn, Mark Lloyd) and he pushed for the take over of the auto industry and health care industry. I have observed him and listened to him since he has become a national figure and then President of the Unites States. He is a regular, pathological liar and his "subjects" allow the lies since he says he will take care of them. They are too ignorant to know he is only controlling them.

Don't come up with the lame excuse that the constitution is outdated. For the first time in your life, read it and pay close attention to Article V. The framers knew that as time evolved the constitution may have to evolve also so they included Article V. Also, before you ignorantly state I am a racist for having these views, educate yourself on what a racist actually is. Most people that use the term do not even know what a racist is.

[Syrinx]

1. who is it?

[OneGrassRoot]

2. Oh, I'm sorry. It's a relative, no one famous or anything...

I was just flabbergasted when I read his posts on FB a little bit ago.

There doesn't seem to be anything rational about this person any more, even though she used to be. I'm stunned by what I read, with that being just one.

While she isn't a Limbaugh person, she is a Fox News person, and the result of that is becoming increasingly alarming, imho.

[Syrinx]

4. obfuscate much :)

I notice that you refer to the person as both male and female. Is the person a tranny?

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Sorry about that...

I do have concerns that this person "follows" me online, and would be pissed that I'm copying and pasting what they wrote. I tried to minimize even the remote concern of outing this person -- even though, again it's not like this person is famous or anything -- by not revealing gender.

It's a relative, so I'm treading more lightly than usual.

My bad.

[Syrinx]

6. Been there, done that

I understand.

[adigal]

84. I just can't do it anymore...I can't tread lightly

When people are so uninformed, selfish, racist and hated, I just cannot smile and pretend that I like them. I don't need that negative energy in my life, that hatred and fear, so I tell them that they should be ashamed of themselves, and that is it. I have nothing more to do with them. Sad, but I just can't take the hatred anymore.

[OneGrassRoot]

85. I hear you...

I think I mentioned somewhere that this is the last conservative I continue to interact with, and only one of three relatives I'm still in touch with.

This person REALLY never came across as bigoted or racist or anything before...really, not at all, and I am hyperaware of that kind of behavior.

Just a much more conservative view of the world, but a nice person.

I've discovered in the last hour the reason for the personality change...the vitriol and demeaning words:

Limbaugh.

A new dittohead has been born.

I always respected this person as being a conservative but not a dittohead, but I can't say that any longer.

I now don't know what to think of someone who newly converts to being a dittohead and was previously rational. I've seen it happen many times but still can't wrap my brain around it.

All I know is that they become MEAN.

[Tunkamerica]

10. jury results:

At Mon Apr 16, 2012, 04:36 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

obfuscate much

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

It is my understanding that the word 'tranny' is offensive and not allowed on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 16, 2012, 04:42 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: That was not my understanding. Is transsexual a banned term? The shortening of it shouldn't be.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Syrinx]

12. ?

What?

[OneGrassRoot]

14. I was confused, too...

I haven't engaged at DU3 enough to be familiar with this new jury thing (and I kind of read past those disputes).

I take it someone alerted on your post, using the word "tranny," and these are the results of that jury decision?

[Syrinx]

16. DU3 has set disruptors loose

I'm thinking "tranny" is a pretty mainstream term. Certainly I'm not meaning any disrespect to anyone. And I certainly didn't mean to disrespect you. I love your wishadoo site. I think DU is infested with maggots that need to be squashed.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. That's why I haven't engaged much.

There are weird dynamics going on with members that I don't understand and prefer not to engage in.



I didn't feel you intended any disparagement and wasn't offended by your post whatsoever.

Thanks for the kind words.




Edit to add that evidently some do feel that term is offensive. I recall actor, Neil Patrick Harris, used that word and took a lot of heat for doing so.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/02/neil-patrick-harris-tranny-remark/

So evidently it is a term that is offensive to some.

[Mimosa]

98. The first time I heard 'tranny' was from my tranny friends in the early 1970s

Times change. I don't think everybody in the LGBT -which includes me- community is hypersensitive to words used casually. Or in humorous context.

[HiPointDem]

105. and at that time, did it denote a transvestite, or a transgendered person, or both?

i'm curious, as there seems to be some disagreement about the meaning and it seems to be generational.

i knew the word in that era too and where i was it meant transvestite and was used by gay people, not straight people, most of whom didn't even know the word unless they hung out with gay people.

[OneGrassRoot]

108. The generational thing can be brutal.

Words that were offensive to my generation are used freely now (and not meant as a slur), and vice versa.

It's really a challenge sometimes to be aware and mindful, no matter how sincere we are.

I just try to stay as silent as possible these days. This thread is an anomaly.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

19. As pointed out in H&M on your post #4 above, it is a term of disrespect,

to say the least. You might edit the two posts.

[Ms. Toad]

20. It is a term that is used by straights as an insult.

If you did not intend any disrespect, then I hope you will consider editing your post to remove a term which many in the LGBT community find hurtful.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

21. "I think DU is infested with maggots that need to be squashed."

Who does that refer to?

[Syrinx]

23. It refers to the FR types that are drowning this forum

I'm sure you are quite familiar with them.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

24. It was a confusing turn of phrase in the context

of this subthread about juries and your use of an offensive term,
which you have chosen not to edit?

[Ms. Toad]

28. It appears, from the context in which you used it,

that you are referring to whoever alerted on your use of the derogatory term "tranny," and others similarly offended by its use, who I can assure you would not be welcome on the FR.

[muriel_volestrangler]

106. Your excuse is not believable, and you need to be held to account for your words

You said, in reply to a question "I take it someone alerted on your post, using the word "tranny," and these are the results of that jury decision? ":

DU3 has set disruptors loose

I'm thinking "tranny" is a pretty mainstream term. Certainly I'm not meaning any disrespect to anyone. And I certainly didn't mean to disrespect you. I love your wishadoo site. I think DU is infested with maggots that need to be squashed.

There is no way to read that apart from you calling the person who alerted on your post, or the person who posted the results, a 'disruptor'. And "DU is infested with maggots that need to be squashed" can only be a follow-up to you calling them 'disruptors'.

Now, I will accept that you may not have known the word is offensive; but what is obviously offensive is you calling DUers 'offensive' and 'maggots'. And then calling them 'FR types' is just getting worse. You should retract the name-calling, and apologise.

Why do you hate DUers so much for pointing out your words are offensive? Are you so thin-skinned that you cannot take any personal criticism?

[Tunkamerica]

22. to be clear... i was the only juror to comment

if i'm wrong about the word, someone (whose opinion counts) correct me

[Ms. Toad]

26. I don't know whose opinion you believe counts,

but I am a member of the LGBT community, and the term "tranny" is generally considered derogatory, and should not be used unless you intend to offend people within that community.

[Tunkamerica]

29. sorry. never used it myself. i assumed it was shorthand for transsexual.

i also assume i'm not the only one.

[Ms. Toad]

40. No - you aren't the only one.

Tranny has been used enough as a put down by people who hate or fear transsexuals that it is considered by most people in the LGBT community to be derogatory, particularly when used by people outside of the community. So it shouldn't be used by anyone who is not part of that family at all, unless the intend is to be offensive (because its use is offensive to many of us - even though it will not necessarily offend all of us).

[SATIRical]

77. Question

I recently saw a tour bus for a Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Bisexual and Queer organization.

It struck me as odd because I thought Queer was considered derogatory. Is that an OK term or not? Wiki says it is an umbrella term for all non-heterosexuals but that's, well, wiki.

What's the real scoop?

[Ms. Toad]

90. That is dangerous territory.

In general conversation, with people you don't know (like on the internet) my opinion is that it should be avoided. There are many LGBT individuals who are really hurt or offended by its use - particularly older ones at whom it was directed as often, and with as much virulence, as the "F" label was.

Within the LGBT community, there is a similar ambivalence toward it that there is toward the "N" word within the African American community. Even though it is still incredibly painful for some in the LGBT community, others find using it acceptable within the "family" and some - particularly younger and particularly individuals who are not gender normative are using it more generally, in an effort to reclaim it. I am in an organization with Q in the name - it took years to get there, and we finally did when the older heterosexual wife of a gay man pushed for it to be included because, she was a beloved member of our group and - paraphrasing her - "I'm about as queer as you can get" and none of the rest of the alphabet soup name described her.

But - as to the basic question - choosing not to use it will never be offensive. A straight person using it is still offensive to many members of the LGBT community. So my advice would be to avoid using it except in the context of close real-life LGBT friends who are using it around you, with whom you can watch body language and check to see if it is OK with them for you to join in.

On DU - except in the name of an organization, or an individual who has self-identified as "queer," I would expect it to draw an alert, maybe be hidden, and maybe even get you tossed on your can for a TOS violation, just because it is generally recognized as a word which is a derogatory reference to LGBT individuals.

[SATIRical]

93. Thanks

Like I said, I was surprised to see it in the name (it was a sweet charter-type bus with a really nice paintjob).

It's still a "definitely avoid" in my book!

[TacoD]

99. I think the Q in LGBTQ stands for questioning (nt)

[SATIRical]

107. On the bus it spelled out 'Queer' (nt)

[Tunkamerica]

34. sorry, poor choice of words. meant it as "an opinion from someone who might actually know if it's

offensive to the parties in question".

I didn't even remember what I'd said at first.

[Ms. Toad]

37. I was hoping you meant it that way -

which is why I answered with what I hope was a helpful response.

[Tunkamerica]

39. well, it was. thanks.

and the other party called me a right-winger or an asshole

[Syrinx]

27. Who's opinion counts?

Only people who makes a big stink about nothing at all?

I used the word "tranny." May God herself forgive me.

You are either an ACT-UP extremist idiot, or a conservative disruptor.

And DU would be better off without either of those things.

[Ms. Toad]

31. I am a member of the LGBT community

My dearest friend in the world is a transsexual, and many other close friends are. The use of that term is hurtful to my friends and offensive to me.

[Tunkamerica]

33. wow, my "whose opinion counts" offends both sides?

I just meant that I wanted to know from people who might actually be offended by the wrong phrase. I think the opinion of someone who's never been around a transgendered indiv. might be of less value overall than someone who has

[JoeyT]

35. FWIW

Tranny is the equivalent of "fag" directed at transexuals/transgenders instead of gay men. It's a slur.

I'm pretty sure conservative disruptors don't get all bent out of shape over GLBT slurs.

[Syrinx]

38. I doubt that's true

But if it's true, I'm sorry. The trip list is kind of ridiculous. No harm meant.

[pacalo]

47. So, when are you going to edit out your comment in #4?

[Ms. Toad]

50. Pretty sure he can't -

since he finally stepped over a line enough a jury was willing to hide the comment. Not sure why his comments to me didn't merit hiding (3-3 to leave), but his similar insult to another poster now has him banned from this thread.

Not that he has shown any indication he would even be willing to edit it. I wasn't the original alerter, I asked politely, and you can see how well that went.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

79. I'm pretty sure you CAN edit posts in a thread

where one of your posts has been hidden. I doubt he'll edit it now though.

[Ms. Toad]

87. I haven't checked recently, but I thought the post-hide edit was a quirk that got fixed

after a certain someone used that feature to edit a thread in the feminist forum to continue an argument in a thread after having posts hidden in the thread.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

91. OK.

[Capt. Obvious]

49. "ACT-UP"

I've traveled back in time

[Ms. Toad]

51. Yeah - I thought about pointing that out

and pointing out that using "ACT-UP extremist idiot" as an insult was probably also a TOS violation, but that would have required way too much explanation.

[Capt. Obvious]

61. I thought I was listening to Rush Limbaugh ca. 1994 there

I haven't heard ACT-UP used as a bogeyman since about that time

[maddezmom]

88. you may think it's mainstream but it's a slur to the LGBT community

instead of doubling down why don't you take the comments in this thread and the ones in Meta to heart and try to educate yourself.
http://www.glaad.org/transgender

because if you don't, you are being willfully ignorant and bigoted.

[PatSeg]

65. I just found out the two of my relatives

watch FOX constantly. They were rational people and are socially liberal, but they are allowing FOX (and Rush it appears) feed their anger.

I find it very disturbing. If it is happening to these people, how many more formerly "reasonable" people are being brainwashed by the right-wing media? And is it reversible?

[OneGrassRoot]

68. It really is upsetting. :(

I know it's not good to generalize, but it's hard to think that rational people would start watching Fox if they didn't have latent bigotry as part of their character.

Wanting to always blame The Other since they are so desperately unhappy and angry.

Fox, Limbaugh, Beck, et al provide targets for that.

As I type this, I'm just as disgusted with the people who watch Fox as I am Fox itself. Fox is providing a service that is obviously desired.

Ignorance truly is bliss on their end...but dangerous for the rest of us.

[PatSeg]

86. I have a very vivid imagination,

but I could have never imagined this. I had picture of the type of people who watch FOX News regularly and believe it. That picture didn't include the people I know who have been rational and open-minded.

The two relatives I'm thinking of have been through some rough times in the past few years and it appears they are vulnerable to the hate-baiting on FOX. But I'm not really sure. It is a rather bizarre phenomenon, like something out of a futuristic sci-fi movie.

What is really disgusting is many of the people at FOX know what they are spouting is BS, but they are very well paid to spout it. They take no responsibility for the havoc and pain they cause. Evidently being outrageous is very lucrative.

[Old and In the Way]

3. "I feel Obama wants the United States to become a communist state. "

stupid person. Nothing else you can say.

[lovemydog]

7. A stupid person who

doesn't believe in looking up words in the dictionary or honoring what a word means.

Faux news appeals to their laziness and fears and self-righteous hypocrisies.

[Iris]

75. And who serves on the local school board.

sigh....

[OneGrassRoot]

8. I trust anyone who dislikes these kinds of posts will ignore, but here's more....

I need to be working but I'm really kind of shocked by the new level of nastiness I never detected before.

I will say that this relative reads a lot and supposedly also reads a lot of progressive viewpoints, not the typical Fox News viewer who only gets information from them. Obviously there is a completely different worldview, however.

If anyone has any rebuttals to the different points raised below and is inclined to share, please do. I don't know that I'll ever engage this person politically any more though. There's no common ground. I just realized these posts are probably similar to those at FR. I'll stop sharing now.


*****

President Obama "LIES" again to the American public. He realizes many people are not smart enough to understand he is not being honest.

Yesterday, when talking about ObamaCare, Obama stated; "Ultimately, I am confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratocally elected congress. The facts are in the past 200 years the Supreme Court has over turned hundreds of Federal, State, and local laws that were passed by democratically elected officials. Overturning the law would not be "unprecedented" nor "extraordinary" in any way. Also, there was no "strong" majority in the passing of the ObamaCare. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi pulled a maneuver and deemed the law passed.

For those of you that do not know, unprecedented means never before experienced or known or unexampled.

Another, Obama LIE!!!! that the progressives will defend or deny.


*****

Again, I would like to point out to all the liberals that are not able to get beyond believing every word President Obama puts forth, "Big Oil" as liberals like to say, do not, I repeat, do not receive subsidies from the American taxpayers. I realize you want so badly to vilify success in America but at least get your facts right. I know Obama and liberals like to say over and over and over that the oil companies receive "subsidies" from the government not caring about what the truth is. Liberals feel if they say it enough they will get more of the uneducated to belive the lie.

Just a small amount of checking would show the oil companies are able to keep more of the money "they" earn by taking business tax deductions as other businesses do also. Oil companies pay approximately "to the government" twelve billion dollars a year in taxes. If you feel they need to pay more (I don't) then say they need to pay more. Vilify them for being so successful if you like. Just don't perpetuate and spread a lie.

Obama pushes "giving" money to so-called Green Companies by saying the money is an investment in the future. They "are" subsidies and all to often the money is lost to bankruptcy. At least the oil companies are sending money "to" the government. It is not that difficult to look up what a tax deduction is and what a subsidy is if you are interested in the truth.


*****

Who do you think the following describes.

"Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie before a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."

I and many others believe this describes President Obama. Read it again and you will see it perfectly describes Obama.

This quote is actually from a report prepared by the United States Office of Strategic Services during WWII in describing Hitler's psychological profile.


*****

Another "BIG LIE" by President Obama. Warren Buffett does not pay a lower tax rate than his secretary. Here are the facts. "EVERY" person that has capital gains will pay 15% of that gain to the government in the form of a capital gains tax. Every American pays the same capital gains rate, Buffett, his secretary and other Americans. Income tax rates for Warren Buffett , for his secretary and all other Americans is based on their taxable income not who they are. Too many Americans believe the lie since they truly do not understand the tax laws and want so much to believe "Everything" Obama says. It is too bad that so many American are so ignorant and only want the government to "Take Care" of them.


*****

From the incomparable Dr. Thomas Sowell. The man is a genius like when he stated; "Affordable housing is a house you can afford." Think about that. Now another wise comment from Dr. Sowell, "In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices - leading to worsening behavior by the recipients."

[Capt. Obvious]

59. Let's get it all out

Are there any chain mails about Bill Clinton while we're at it?

[OneGrassRoot]

62. Obviously my trust was misplaced... (w/edit)

thinking that DUers who dislike these types of sharings will just ignore.



Don't worry, I don't plan to make a habit of posting such things....or hardly anything in DU3 for that matter. I was just taken aback, and it was 3:00 AM so I vented here.




(Sorry if you were dissing my relative based on what she wrote and not dissing me for posting it. I honestly don't do well as far as interacting at DU lately; I often don't know what is sarcasm and what isn't. I suck that way lately. )

[Tunkamerica]

9. As time evolved so too did the term racist to not include anyone who didn't believe they were one.

She read both of his books, huh? I'm gonna call bullshit on that one. She might've read about his 2 books as reviewed by [insert some famous RW person I'm too lazy to look up].

[OneGrassRoot]

11. This is one of literally three people in my family I still interact with...lol

The others are overt, proud racists and bigots, that I cut out of my life completely.

This is an in-law. I always liked this person and felt that she was in the extreme minority of conservatives who are not hypocrites (hating the government yet "don't touch my Medicare!!!&quot .

I'm really shaken by the obvious disdain expressed here toward anyone who isn't a far right-winger. And, really, the level of disdain expressed toward people in general. The Thomas Sowell quote which she feels is brilliant is repugnant to me.



I'm just kind of stunned, thinking my family is now down to 2 people with whom I can interact all (granted, they prefer to not talk politics whatsoever).

[Tunkamerica]

36. what?!

how can you say that?

even just from what i've expressed on this thread.

[Tunkamerica]

41. what's crazy is that 2 juror members either think i am a conservative or an asshole or

that it's cool to call me one no matter the truth.

[Ms. Toad]

44. At least it was only 2.

Three thought I was either "an ACT-UP extremist idiot, or a conservative disruptor" or that it was OK to call me one.

[Tunkamerica]

45. so that post was alerted too? and it passed muster?

amazing what stays and what goes nowadays. I guess watching the sausage get made is worse than I thought.

[mmonk]

63. I have trouble with in laws as well.

Conversations become pointless.

[OneGrassRoot]

70. I have trouble with conversations in general lately...

And it's only going to get worse as this election year goes on.

Oy vey.....

[mmonk]

72. I know. Heightened madness this year.

[rrHeretic]

13. And

You're shocked? People like this have been around almost to the second that Obama won the presidency. The night he won the election I couldn't sleep because I was so excited and happy. So I browsed the Internet and found that right wing militia groups popped up almost instantaneously within the first few hours of the election. I'd also gone at it with them for years during the Bush regime so nothing they say or do should be of any surprise. They are mindless bigots who deserve no attention or dialogue.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. Oh, I know they have grown in number since the summer of 2008...

with the Palin Mobs.

I just never lumped this person in with that same group of mindless bigots whatsoever.

Uber conservative and libertarian, but not displaying the venom I see in these recent posts.

[Kylefty]

18. So sad

On a school board to,nothing will ever reach these people SO hateful and hypocritical. You would do a great service to the children He/She has influence on in His/Her position if you would make His/Her comment about Obama being a communist public.


The only way we are going to ever beat conservatives in this country is to call them out and ridicule their hateful stupidity its real easy to make them laughing stocks they write their own material its our job to expose it in their own words high and low.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. This person is out where the buses don't run.

Talk about the least intelligent and weakest among us ... this person is that.


Throw in some projection, too.

[ET Awful]

32. "Most people that use the term do not even know what a racist is."

Hmmmm, seems to me the same could be said for the word "communist".

[TBF]

55. Agree - and the fact that a communist economic system

might well suit 99% of the people in this country better if they'd leave their stereotypes behind.

Of course there is no evidence of Obama being communist - his record speaks for itself.

[Vinca]

42. Your relative needs psychiatric help.

[baldguy]

43. I guessing the operative word here is "formerly".

Thinking is hard work.

[n2doc]

46. If it were me I would be so tempted to reply "so, Romney is a commie too?"

Really, they should educate themselves on what a 'communist' is. They clearly have no idea.

[OneGrassRoot]

48. I have a feeling she loathes Romney.

Maybe that's why there's so much vitriol aimed at Obama and those on the left in general. She no longer has a candidate she can get behind, so instead is lashing out against The Others.



Really, she wasn't this shitty and demeaning before; not at all.

[KurtNYC]

54. Fox and others are good at taking free floating anger and providing a target for it

There is a science to moving public opinion and that is basically what they sell, whether it happens during commercials or the dis-infotainment portions. Many, perhaps, most people are more moved by emotional arguments than by facts.

I think the Romney shakeout has many on the Right feeling cornered. To them, Romney is a 'Tax-achussettes liberal non-Protestant that talks out of both sides of his mouth and was the father of Obama-care."

Hell yes they are pissed off but don't expect a coherent argument. They have no one to vote for in November (but a RW Ross Perot type would certainly destroy the slim chance that Romney has).

[OneGrassRoot]

56. True. Well said.

I can't wait for their convention. My goodness, that should be entertaining.

[JoePhilly]

52. Respond with this ... "and some how, the DOW is up ~6000 under Communist Obama."

Ask him what % of the DOW 30 companies have been nationalized.
Ask him what % of the S&P 500 companies have been nationalized.
Ask him what % of the US Oil industry has been nationalized.
Ask him what % of the banking industry has been nationalized.

The answer is ZERO in all cases.

Oh ... and tell him most people who use the term communism do not even know what a communist is. He clearly doesn't.

And then tell him he's not a racist. Just a dope.

[OneGrassRoot]

53. lolol

I appreciate this -- thanks!

[JoePhilly]

74. I have an old friend who sent something alomst exactly like the letter you posted.

It was a little different.

It said Obama hated the Constitution and was turning the US into the Soviet Union and taking away our rights. And Obama was taking over every industry. It even had the preemptive "I'm not a racist" nonsense. I've know this guy for 30+ years, and I knew he was a racist long before he ever sent this email.

Anyway, after the above, he also provide his reasons for supporting Rick Perry. All nonsense.

So in addition to the stuff I listed in my earlier post, I also went on to crush Perry pointing out that he threatened to secede from the Union, and that there were 4 specific ways he wanted to change the Constitution. Taking away your right to vote for your State's senators was my favorite.

He stopped sending me that nonsense after Perry's "Oppps" moment.

[OneGrassRoot]

78. I JUST learned that there is indeed another influence here:

Limbaugh

I've always approached conservatives who don't like Limbaugh with a measure of respect, giving them the benefit of the doubt. This relative is one of those who previously had no respect for Limbaugh.

I just learned that's no longer the case.

THAT explains it, even more than the Fox News watching.

[nenagh]

57. OneGrassRoot! It's Wonderful to See Your Post...

I understand your perception as it is what I've worried about for many years...

The demonizing of the Democratic Party..Newt Gingrich: 1996, 'Language: a Key Mechanism of Control'.. Teaching, preaching that the Democratic Party must be referred to in negative terms,,, many of those terms are now intrenched as truths in the blinded minds of many on the right.

Your relative is a case study in the success of indoctrination by Fox News...

I am in south Florida (from Canada) at the moment...it is amazing..I've met lovely people here.. People who feed stray cats, who feed the homeless, who take time to create care packages for the homeless, shampoo, Soap..etc, very kind people...

And yet, I suspect from their chat they are Fox viewers...as one woman worried at lunch on the weekend. 'I hope that Zimmerman can get a fair trial.... Of course I do also, but the group seemed to swallow wholeheartedly the Zimmerman attacked by Trayvon meme...and that can only be, I think, by Fox News watching.

I used to think it was as if a significant part of the country existed within a field of huge marijuana plants...and just didn't realize the distorted thought...but I suppose it's really more that Fox News channels paranoia, fear and anger with their thought distortions. Sickening really....

As a positive, a wonderful DUer last night posted a link to Hawaii and the Dalai Lama speaking at the initiation of the 'Pillars of Peace' initiative.

He spoke about compassion and maintaining inner peace in a hostile environment etc.. He said when he had his gallbladder removed when it was in quite an advanced state of disease requiring a much longer operation that usual...that he recovered quickly... The Drs told him that he had a much younger body than his age and he attributed this to his mental and emotional state of calm.. (I think he indicated this required work to maintain). ....

So one feel that all these negative emotions of your relative, cannot be good for the person. Per the Dalai Lama.

Keep well OneGrassRoot...

[OneGrassRoot]

58. Ahhhh, so nice to see you!

Funny, I saw a Dalai Lama quote shortly after posting this, and it was a great reminder for me to not get sucked into the anger myself.

Of course, we all have a lot to be angry about, some more than others, but fighting against those who have been lost to Fox News and Limbaugh seems to be a truly hopeless cause; at least it's not a battle I'm willing to give my energy to any longer.

I just have to remind myself of that.

Hope you're well.

[kentauros]

89. It's all part of how one successfully imposes propaganda.

While I've never read the whole thing (just read of it) there was a game of propaganda created by one Robert Allen, and Lorne Greene (yes, the actor, known for Bonanza ) And they called it "The Propaganda Game". It's included in this site, though they cover other published works about how propaganda is used and all the techniques.

Even just skimming it, I find it to be fascinating stuff, and I can understand how people are manipulated, no matter what the desired outcome by the propagandists.

[HughBeaumont]

60. Let's see . . .

. . . Red Baiter in 2012. COME on. The Cold War's been over for 23 years now. Turn the page, guys.

. . . Assertion that a Constitutional Law Scholar and Lecturer doesn't know the Constitution. Of all the statements freepers make, this one has to rank among the most idiotic.

. . . Assertion that free market capitalism is the greatest way for America to go, even though visual evidence and data prove quite the contrary.

. . . "I'm not a racist"

. . . Hyper-Nationalism.

. . . Neo-McCarthysim.

Yep, this is what I call an "Unreachable".

[newspeak]

80. so, what does your family member think

about little boots lying? I see short term memory regarding the patriot act. You know, that bill that actually compromises the constitution.

There's been a division, especially when it comes to how much power the federal government should have and states' power. Nothing has changed there; however, little boots spouting about state's rights and then allowing his "free market" greedy friends (like enron) to screw people in state like california or allowing his predatory loan friends to go across state lines to screw people against the will of the state shines a light on those free market cockroaches. I remember the governor of california pleading with little boots to regulate while enron was screwing the hell out of the people.

Now, I wished these faux viewing people would make up their minds. Liberals are too intelligent for their own good or we're ignorant. Come on teabaggers, which is it? Of course, we're not the ones watching the propaganda bullshite called faux news, you are. And, as more than one study found, ya'll are the least informative.

The free market fairytale these people swallow whole is nothing but a myth. It's called predatory global corporations with no regard to regulation, no regard to workers' rights, no regard to a healthy environment. Profit trumps all. Any small business with a great idea, and is doing well, they'll either attempt to buy it out, steal it or squash the little guy like a bug.

Obama is further from a communist, corporatist yeah, communist no. Of course, our "liberal" media attempts to coerce the people in believing he's a communist, a soshhhilist. But, the truth is he's a corporatist. And, the repugs would be loving obama if he was just a repug.

I know exactly who started the war on civil rights and it wasn't obama. Little boots made sure his "friends" made a killing while he was in office-so, if you're talking about the free market, deregulated fairy; well, little boots was your guy. And just look what his friends did not only to our country; but other countries in the world. Don't worry though; wall street made out like bandits; before little boots before the election basically told congress "ya'll got to bail me out."

I don't believe in predatory deregulated capitalism and I believe that we, as americans, should help those fellow americans who are now hurting. So, I guess I must now be one of those bleeding heart commies. Right?

[HughBeaumont]

81. I think you meant to reply to the OP, because I pretty much agree with all of what you said.

[OneGrassRoot]

83. I couldn't agree more...

The cognitive dissonance is nothing short of stunning to behold!!!

I've learned since starting this OP that there is another influence which is caused this relative to veer to The Dark Side and become rather hateful in comments.

Limbaugh.

Another dittohead has been born, which completely explains the personality change.



Oh, I'm no doubt a bleeding heart, liberal, pinko, commie, treehugger and everything else dittoheads despise.

And proud of it.

[GoCubsGo]

64. You have a projectionist in your family.

My condolences.

[Iris]

66. Who doesn't know what a racist is?

What a pompous arrogant jerk.

[ProfessorGAC]

67. One Need Not Be A Racist To Be A Buffoon

Her screed proves it. She says she's not racist. Since i don't know here i can't prove otherwise. But, i can prove she's a buffoon because i read what she wrote.
GAC

[OneGrassRoot]

69. That's an excellent quote.

I may create a graphic and quote you, because you're spot on.

[ProfessorGAC]

76. Thank You, OGR

GAC

[Burma Jones]

71. As soon as you see up front the assertion that you are stupid or ignorant if you disagree

You can safely disregard the author as not worth your time.......

[OneGrassRoot]

73. Excellent, simple advice. Thank you. :) n/t

[Mimosa]

96. Politics is fleeting, families should be supportive

I'm guessing there are other issues behind this.

I 'd had an in law who listened to Limbaugh and Levin. She believed a lot of their nonsense. But in every other respect she is a kind, generous good person who gets along well with all her neighbors in a diverse neighborhood. When she was younger and able she volunteered so much of her time at a hospital.

Tolerance goes both ways. It seems to me the OP comes from a 'family argument'. The OP's author desires us to pile on and condemn a person for her politically incorrect thoughts. I won't do that. I judge people only when I am acquainted with all the facts.

[Prophet 451]

82. My sympathies, dude

So many of the right, even the formerly rational ones, seem to have contracted some form of psychosis ever since Obama was inaugurated. It's like they live in a completely different world.

[just1voice]

92. "formerly rational old-school Republican" = YOU WERE SUCKERED

There is no such thing, the "old-school republican" farce has always been a pretense used by bigots and/or greedy 1%er hopefuls.

It's OK, we all get suckered into things sometimes, I'm just stating reality for the sake of clarity because I'm sick of people making excuses for repukes.

[OneGrassRoot]

94. It seems you may be correct.

I truly thought this one person was different, and made me hopeful that others were out there. I thought we simply had different views -- granted, VASTLY different views -- about how we'd like to see things, but never thought to lump her in with today's _____ (insert adjective) right-wing.

Learning that she has recently become a dittohead makes my head spin. I can't imagine that any thoughtful, rational person would do so...certainly not at that age (early 60s).

She knows better, yet she chose to dive into that cesspool.



Oh well, lesson learned for me.

[Mimosa]

97. Your own lack of tolerance may make her 'dig in her heels'

Surely in real life your in-law has some good to her?

I can understand where Rush and O'Reilly type propaganda is seductive to older people who don't know or understand the real causes behind the undeniable decline of the country they love. The information is available online and in books.

But it's easier for older people to listen to the radio .

I'm worried about you. Are you in your 20s? 30s? You have a few things to learn about people. First is what people do is more important than what they say. Secondly, when you don't agree with a family member's political views, that doesn't make her a an irrational person deserving of a demeaning label. In families it's best to find common ground.

She'll vote her way, you can vote your way.

Try to live and let live.

[OneGrassRoot]

101. It's very interesting how you perceive me.

I obviously view family differently than you do, and I realize that I'm in the minority.

I am not one who feels "family" is everything. As I replied to you below, I come from a very racist, bigoted family and have always been the black sheep.

Thank goodness.

I choose not to interact with such people, and I honestly don't care if we're "related" or not. I can still love them and wish them well but choose not to have such people in my life.

That's not everyone's way, but it's my way.

You needn't worry about me. I'm fine. If my extremely rare sharing here on DU, to vent at 3:00 AM (and which I really didn't think anyone would see, so imagine my surprise as this ongoing thread with such twists and turns) gives you a strong opinion of me and my social skills, and it makes you concerned about me, so be it. This is DU, after all.



I'm 48, btw.

I absolutely base my relationships with people on their actions and behavior more than their words, though words DO matter, especially if they're said repeatedly.

Also, when I "disagree" with family members, it most certainly isn't a matter of simply disagreeing about political views. That would be easy. I am fine engaging with people -- family or not -- with differing views.

It's the racist, bigoted behavior that has -- again, in my experience -- accompanied such views that leads me to choose not to engage such people any longer.

This person has never behaved in a racist or bigoted manner, so I have been fine agreeing to disagree about political matters. I have always had great respect for her.

Which is why the vitriol I detected in her various unprompted sharings recently took me by surprise.

Now that I know she is a dittohead, it will be interesting to see if she will be the first person I've ever known who listens to him and DOESN'T become an overt, proud bigot.

[Mimosa]

103. One Grass Root, sorry if I offended you.

I have so much experience with people who have experienced aging. In my own family and friends and as a nursing home volunteer from 1984 through 1989.

You said:
"This person has never behaved in a racist or bigoted manner, so I have been fine agreeing to disagree about political matters. I have always had great respect for her. "

I'm not saying you should reach beyond your comfort zone in order to tolerate what you don't like hearing. I said people ought to be judged by their actions not their words. I have waaay too much experience in seeing the onset of senile dementia.
Or if not that exact diagnosis, the decline of cognition among the elderly. You said this person is about 60.

Media tries to pretend that 60 is the new 50. In some people that may be true. Many 60 and 70 year old people are energetic, creative, right on the ball and can professionally compete with 40 year olds. But that is not always true.

Even more to the point is what I wrote in an earlier post. People who grew up during the 1950s and 1960s (and you were only born in 1970 or so) have seen this country's culture and economy decline. In inflation adjusted dollars middle class people earn about one half of what they used to. That is a verifiable gut-wrenching fact. At your age you can't imagine that once things were more secure. People didn't feel as desperate as the majority now feel.

The Fox news/Rush Limbaugh propaganda machine came along and provided a narrative which portrays conservative good guys and 'leftist' bad guys. Frankly, whatever you have to say can't compete. You seem invested in defending your point of view. But you don't have the long time perspective of a 60 year old.

Yet you called her a racist. Why? Somebody can think Barack Obama is a failure as a president and not be a racist. Many times through the years on D.U. I have posted elections are decided on whether people can pay their bills and put food on their table and not live in fear for the future.

When it comes down to it family are the only people who will take you in when you are needy. Who else cares about you? I don't have but one or 2 living relatives. But I know they would be there for me before any strangers online.

[OneGrassRoot]

104. Thank you, Mimosa, but you continue to misunderstand what I have said

Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:07 AM - Edit history (2)

I have said repeatedly that I have never felt she is a racist. I don't know why you continue to say that I have called her a racist; others in this thread have, I haven't.

I do not feel she is a racist or a bigot. My hope is that that doesn't change now that she has started listening to Limbaugh, as it has been my experience that that does change people.

I most definitely agree that people can dislike Obama and that it doesn't make them a racist. I never said that it does.

I criticize President Obama for being a corporatist as well, btw. My concerns are never about people criticizing Obama or any other politican or any other individual, yet certainly how some do so can be very upsetting and potentially dangerous such as the latest McCarthy-esque communism meme from the far right.

And, again, my experiences have indeed been different than yours (I was born in the early 60's).

I most definitely have found in the last 13 years that people I have met online are very much there for me in "real" life. I consider many friends more like family than most blood relatives. That said, my relatives know that, if they need me, I will be there -- and I do believe it is reciprocated. We are simply so very different that it is hypocritical to pretend to get along and chitchat just because it's what we "should" do. They offend me and I offend them based on our extremely conflicting worldviews.

My child having an interracial relationship was the final straw for several of them. Again, they are extraordinarily racist -- and it has nothing to do with aging...this family has been like that for forever.

I absolutely understand how Fox/Limbaugh appeal to people's fears and wanting a simpler life and a clearer target for their anger and frustration.

I would never stop interacting with someone just because they watch Fox or listen to Limbaugh. However, if repeated hateful behavior ensues as a result -- and it's not related to dementia (which I am familiar with, btw, and would certainly have more compassion and tolerance in such situations) -- I will not have such people as part of my daily life.

Again, if they need me, I'm there, but I won't tolerate hateful, bullying, racist, bigoted behavior in people I choose to interact with on a regular basis.

That's my choice, and I'm fine with it.

[OneGrassRoot]

102. For your information, here are more comments, beyond what's in the OP

I shared more of her comments in this post. The OP isn't indicative of the vitriol toward the left in general as much as these other sharings.

I actually don't see where I ever demeaned her in any of my posts here as you've indicated. I was pointing out how demeaning HER comments and verbiage had become, which surprised me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=568965

I won't lump all Republicans and Fox News viewers together in a demeaning way (though I understand why others do, and why they get upset that I don't).

I WILL, however, lump all Limbaugh and Beck listeners together and say I have no respect for anyone who is a fan of Limbaugh or Beck. That's based on my personal experience in dealing with people who are their fans.

Again, if your experience has been different, that's wonderful.

Live and let live, as you said.

[Mimosa]

95. Wondering why you were driven to post badly written B.S. here?

Can't you just converse with her?

There's no reason to suppose that a person who dislikes Obama is a racist per se. So if YOU actually accused her of being racist you brought her refutation on yourself.

The author knows little about President Obama. For heaven's sake the man has long had major ties with investment firms, international banks and America's major corporations. That's provable. You could do some googling, print up the facts. Obama provably does not govern even as a Democratic Socialist.

Obama is a 'Third way Democrat' much like Bill and Hillary Clinton. Third Way Democrats embrace capitalism.

[OneGrassRoot]

100. I'll answer your three comments thusly:

1. I've been conversing with her for years and will likely continue to do so unless blatant racist or bigoted behavior develops. I, admittedly, have zero tolerance for that. It's my line in the sand. My personal choice.


2. I was driven to post the badly written BS here because DU is a community to which I have belonged since 2003, and in GD people share a variety of experiences, especially those which involve interacting with others -- including family members -- especially about political and social matters.

I don't engage here very much any longer precisely because even the most benign posts seem to invite negativity and snide comments and a questioning of one's character. I choose not to give energy to that.

I was truly stunned by what I perceived was a fairly drastic shift in this person's personality based on HOW she was conveying her political opinion, and it was 3:00 AM, so I vented.


3. I most certainly did not call her a racist. I said right from the start, in the OP, that I have never perceived her as being racist or bigoted at all, in an attempt to pre-empt others' charges that if someone spouts such views, they must be a racist and/or bigot.

Perhaps it wasn't clear, but she wasn't speaking/writing TO ME in what I copied and shared. They were all general Facebook posts -- she wasn't speaking to me directly, but was doing so inadvertently, I would assume, since I am most definitely on "the left."


4. There was no family squabble or anything else behind my OP. It was pretty straightforward and I was very open about the situation: This is one of three family members I had felt comfortable engaging with and could always do so in a respectful manner, precisely because she never spoke in the way she has recently by referring to liberals and democrats as stupid, ignorant, etc. In one of the above posts I shared more of her comments.

The change in tone recently really surprised me and I wondered what changed leading to the more vitriolic language, not only toward Obama, but toward everyone perceived as even remotely being on "the left"?

After posting the OP, I subsequently learned the answer to my question: Turns out she has turned into a dittohead.

I think it's wonderful that you have had experiences with people who listen to Limbaugh yet you feel are kind people otherwise.

That has not been my experience whatsoever.

It's not that I feel that all Limbaugh listeners or Fox News watchers are evil.

However, it has been my experience that anyone who is a Limbaugh follower absolutely displays racist and bigoted views and behavior. I've witnessed seemingly rational people become hateful after they've become regular listeners, loathing anyone and anything on "the left," and they also start behaving in a bigoted manner even if they hadn't before.

It's as though listening to Limbaugh emboldens the worst part of someone's nature to come to the fore.

That's been my experience for the last 20 or so years very specifically with Limbaugh listeners. I come from a VERY racist, bigoted family (hence the reason why I only engage with 3 people now), so I know of what I speak in that regard.