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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums2nd Texas Ebola case. Stop all Texas flights!
No one should be allowed to fly out of Texas. We're talking about Ebola here. And who knows how many Ebola infected Isis terrorists may have slipped into Texas from the Mexican border? Safer to just ground all the flights.
Oh, ... sorry. I must have had a brief case of GOP-think fever.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)appleannie1
(5,068 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)vt_native
(484 posts)Leave the Union!
On edit: Maybe we should be bombing Texas?
redwitch
(14,946 posts)No bombing please. But maybe hire a Surgeon General and get with a really good protocol for dealing with this ebola thing?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Vermont? Not so much.
Economically, it would make MUCH MORE SENSE to bomb Vermont than Texas. There are dozens of counties in the United States with larger GDPs than the great state of Vermont.
GDP rank:
Texas - #2. Vermont - #50.
FarPoint
(12,430 posts)Cyrano
(15,051 posts)Innocent civilians would not be bombed.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)...please avoid any joyous wedding parties.
IronLionZion
(45,514 posts)shall be declared an enemy combatant, especially if we don't know who they are. Just in case. That way we'll know they're guilty.
Seems legit
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)and I'd NEVER want to see bombs dropped on Americans by Americans, or anyone else for that matter.
Again, good luck to your Son.
FarPoint
(12,430 posts)Small classes for 1:1 focus, French foundation, sustainable living...a fabulous school and beautiful remote location.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)I wouldn't trade 5 of Texas for 1 Vermont.
ffr
(22,671 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)That's really only a handful, it's temporary, and it shouldn't be seen as some sort of punishment or racism. If the US did develop a severe outbreak, I wouldn't be angry at the rest of the world for banning travel from the US. If we had a travel ban on Liberia, the TX nurse would be fine today--that is a fact.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)so you would also agree that the rest of the world should shut down all air travel to/from the us from around mid October to late March early April, right?
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)already. We fully understand how most strains spread, we have vaccines, and if people would just stay home when they're coughing and symptomatic, and wash hands more often, the occurrence would be cut dramatically. In contrast, look at the health care workers in western countries who KNOW they're dealing in life and death and follow protocols, and are still getting ebola. Sorry, ebola does warrant more extreme measures.
homegirl
(1,433 posts)flu doesn't have a 50% plus mortality rate.
For several reasons I would welcome the action if Texas seceded from the USA.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)at least not recently.......
Cyrano
(15,051 posts)countries with outbreaks. Africa, Asia and Europe are linked by land. People can drive, bike, boat, take trains, or simply walk away from an infected country. And once out, they can fly even if flight restrictions were in place in their own countries.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)They need to make every effort to contain and quarantine this. There is no good reason why a travel ban shouldn't be in place except for absolute necessity (such as citizens from elsewhere leaving--and they should be screened and quarantined as well.) I don't need to leave this country--why do they need to leave theirs?
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)You stay in your house, tape all the windows and doors shut. Watch DU and we will tell you when it is safe to leave.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)person instead of half of Africa, Spain, the United States, and who knows by next week.
Does my logic offend you?
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)many cases of ebola should be able to cope with not hopping on a plane and going to distant lands to infect others, don't you think? I think they should very much be "inconvenienced", so that people in unaffected areas don't die from the disease. Your logic isn't offensive, it simply doesn't exist.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Not for myself. But I was a bedside nurse, just like the one who is now going to face a struggle for her life that didn't have to happen, if only Mr. Duncan had been turned away at one airport or another and been sent back home. You don't expose people to lethal risk in THIS country because you don't want to impose "inconvenience" upon a country that's staggering into governmental and societal collapse from a contagious disease with no cure. It shouldn't happen.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Have you spoken one word of support for the victims?
Mr. Duncan didn't take a direct flight to Texas, how many countries would you have impose restrictions upon themselves because of a person that exhibited no symptoms of Ebola? Would you shut down the hospital that sent him home a day after training the staff about Ebola procedures thus causing people to be exposed for two more days and probably signing Duncan's death certificate?
The United States has had 3 or 4 patients with Ebola, quick, when should we close our borders? Should Spain close their borders? Hurry, we need answers now before it gets much worse.
Now as a former medical professional are you prepared to talk about how we can speed up research for a cure and increasing drug production? How about training for the people of West Africa so they can better protect themselves and in doing so help protect the rest of the world from Ebola?
There are medical professionals putting their lives on the line by going to West Africa and facing the risk head on to help alleviate the pain and suffering of those people and my heart goes out to them. I don't know if I would have the courage to do that even if I was qualified, but I do have the courage to never deny them any and all aid including returning to the United States for treatment, if they need it. Then we have some that just want to close the doors and lock them.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)what I've been through in life finally has to pull a baseless personal insult out of his or her ass to try to win a discussion.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)As for a base, you have given me a lot of material to work with.
TBF
(32,086 posts)In fact I doubt there are any direct flights from the affected countries to the US. Easy fix but it doesn't exist.
You could try to seal their borders but people have a way of getting through.
I think the best solution is to get this virus under control. We have a lot of resources on this earth and if we weren't so busy building weapons to bomb each other I think we could solve the problem of any health outbreak.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)plane goes. There shouldn't be flights going into or out of Liberia and other badly affected countries except under controlled scenarios and for vital reasons. It's that simple. I believe Sierra Leone put itself in that position already.
TBF
(32,086 posts)across in the middle of the night? Really, this is silly.
Why would you not seek to contain this disease?
You do know that by sealing off those countries you are dooming millions to death? Is that your goal? And you're still not going to contain it unless you literally put a bubble around the country.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Tourists taking their infection to America or Europe in a bid for treatment--not fine.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)Indeed, wtf
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Most people do not have a real need to leave their home countries. It's not forever--just until the rate of infection starts going down.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)360 miles of coastline and 1000 miles of jungle.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)infection to jump all over the place via travel is exceptionally stupid.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)anywhere else? 986 land miles, 359 ocean miles. How? How would this country be able to do that?
Per wiki
The total length of Liberia's land borders is 986 miles (1,587 km): 190 miles (310 km) with Sierra Leone on the northwest, 350 miles (560 km) with Guinea to the north, and 445 miles (716 km) with Côte d'Ivoire. Liberia currently claims a territorial sea of 200 nmi (230.2 mi; 370.4 km).
359 miles of borders on the Atlantic Ocean per this link
http://books.google.com/books?id=1lstRzSWEcUC&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=liberia+border+length&source=bl&ots=mBU4fr2U_h&sig=3_JJrZ0PN9_0X0mHP7uxR38Fduk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3cA6VP3ELOj3iwLqwoHoDg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=liberia%20border%20length&f=false
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)had to be called in, and OUR troops are exposed to risk in a bid to help them, then they shouldn't be allowed to go elsewhere and infect other countries. I know all the arguments for and against, but simply stopping the movement of potentially infected people would be extremely helpful.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)to just seal the borders, let them die and voila, it's over and done with?
Are you serious. Seriously, wtf.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)We obviously don't have a handle on it. Imagine if it makes it to big cities in India.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Or are you saying Liberians? In that case, what about someone from another country who happened to travel through Liberia?
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)stop societies and countries from setting policies and laws that can be helpful. No flights going to or from Liberia unless necessary and well-screened, no unnecessary border movements.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Attempt to close their borders (what would you think if other countries tried to close our borders?) and you will ensure that people leave by untraceable routes.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)until the incidence of the disease is lowered and under control.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)here, even with sporadic cases, but Sierra Leone did this, I believe.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Because you are calling for shutting the borders of other countries...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Or how we would like it. But I would understand it if they didn't want flights full of Americans if we start having a real problem. To put this in perspective, however, a relative handful of countries have had thousands infected by now--thousands. We should have shut them down in terms of unrestricted travel when it was in the hundreds, because they are simply unable to contain it--and then given them all sorts of aid to quarantine and fight it. The problem has escaped their control, and if it spreads to other high-density cities with poor sanitation (again, I'm thinking India) it's going to get really stupid.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Yet you are calling for imposing your fears on other countries...
The Bush/Chenney admin leaned on those same feelings...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)" No flights going to or from Liberia unless necessary and well-screened, no unnecessary border movements. "
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Neighboring African countries can do what they think is best, but for our purposes here, meaning that the US will not accept flights from Liberia, Senegal, etc., or travelers holding passports from those countries, unless special circumstances warrant it. You can interpret that as you like, but it's pretty straightforward and logical. If that had been in place a few weeks ago, this nurse wouldn't be about to undergo a very terrible time.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)There ARE NO FLIGHTS FROM LIBERIA to the US!!! Everyone who travels from Liberia to the US passes through at least one other country.
If the person feels that they will not be able to do what they want to do, they will simply buy two separate tickets. Now they are traveling from Spain, France, England, etc.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Others may say Spain, Germany, etc. (not everyone leaving Liberia is from there.) What about someone who is a Liberian citizen but has been living in France for the last 5 years?
We are just going in circles now, this is covered ground. You appear to be facetiously raising questions to detract from that you are advocating unilaterally closing another countries borders, what would likely be considered an act of war if it weer done to the United States.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)then they're coming from France. Not sure what you're getting at in terms of "unilaterally" closing another country's border. I'm saying the countries who are hardest hit should restrict travel of their citizens, and other countries/airlines shouldn't take passengers from these countries, unless there are necessary circumstances to do so. I think British Airways is doing that already. When enough workers from various industries decide they don't want to die cleaning up someone's infectious piss or shit for $10 an hour, all sorts of interesting things will start to happen on the government level.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Otherwise, you have talking about closing the borders for them unilaterally (or maybe with a coalition). It isn't realistic in even the most naive mind that the entire world would join together to cut off another country.
If the flight came from France, all you know is the flight came from France. How are you going to prove where the person has been living? Again with the facetious questions...
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)There are a lot of good photos at this link.
http://jangoux.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Africa-the-Kpelle-of-Liberia/G00004GV8bY_KTiA/I0000vi77B33mJ6E/C0000KfHcHzmM7Q8
Blog with photos
http://adventuresinliberia.blogspot.com/2013/04/travel-back-in-time-in-liberia-back-in_22.html
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)flights in and out, freely, all over the world.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)that happen?
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)uppityperson
(115,678 posts)and fwiw, the border crossing are not staffed, no visas are needed to cross those borders.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)it easy or likely, either.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)closing the airport would close 1 mile of those 1000 miles land and none of the water ones.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Liberia? I'd start solving the problem there.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Several continents. If you're going to take your ebola-infected self on a big journey, it's best that we don't help you.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)"If you're going to take your ebola-infected self on a big journey, it's best that we don't help you."
You want to blockade the country, but refuse to say how in any way that can be done except for 1 of 1000 miles. You also say infected people should not be helped.
Incredible. Done with you.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)But, OK...
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)pandemic that is growing and has no cure. Seeing grandma in Belgium or seeing your girlfriend in Dallas doesn't cut it.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Traveler has a passport with a marker from an infected country? No free entry. No passport? No entry, period. Obviously.
I get what you're saying. It makes sense and it isn't hard at all to understand.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)"They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point."
" Never said "blockade"--said unnecessary flights and travel."
No, you said "They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point."
"Seeing grandma in Belgium or seeing your girlfriend in Dallas doesn't cut it."
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)TBF
(32,086 posts)lot of logic in this thread ...
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)Makes my head hurt...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)West Africa isn't Texas. We could stop all travel and nothing would be lost.
Stopping all travel to and from Texas would massively disrupt the economy. Stopping all travel to west Africa loses us nothing. Texas has two infected people, Africa has thousands. The people equating the two are intellectually dishonest
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)Let me repeat, "loses us nothing"
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)And I feel no shame for it. Let whoever wants to volunteer go over there and help, but make damned sure they spend a day or two under observation to ensure they aren't coming back infected.
As for regular travel, nope. You go over there, you're not coming back until the outbreak is over. Sorry. Texas =/= west Africa, it shouldn't even be there. Duncan should never have been allowed into this country, and this woman's life shouldn't have been in danger.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)"We could stop all travel and nothing would be lost." Experts say that is totally wrong.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)What is our tourism to Liberia worth? Not one American dying from this illness, that's what. And all this PC bullshit now has a woman infected and fighting for her life.
Same crowd told me that it was probably already here months ago. No it wasn't, as I said at the time. We let it in. Idiots.
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Please???? But first, bring Perry back to TX. We want his ass quarantined, too.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Some of us live in TX, and this stupid talk is getting me very angry.
Cyrano
(15,051 posts)It's aimed at those (like Fox "News" who want to stop flights out of Ebola infected countries, and the crazy GOP candidates who are saying they have information that Ebola and Isis are crossing the Mexican border.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)It made me laugh, and I'm originally from Texas.
valerief
(53,235 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Cyrano
(15,051 posts)The Mexicans have to remain alert and not let anyone cross over. There must be Mexican militia groups that would volunteer to patrol the border.
TBF
(32,086 posts)Sancho
(9,070 posts)right now Texas is the only state with out-of-control WMD's. Of course, it's a matter of time before some other states join the club.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)showed up. and your sugggestion is absolutely one of those.... look straight into her eyes, and .... now we shut us in. no flights out. you in the northeast? well stay out. none in and none out.
as she said, way back in, so very nasty
uppityperson
(115,678 posts)carrying the ebola, or someone from Africa, or someone who met someone from Brussels!!!!!111111
We are SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)what if coyotes in texas get it, and they come along the
rio grande, and they bite everybody they meet?
Sancho
(9,070 posts)After all, that's how ebola supposedly originated in Africa. Hard to change those cultural habits.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Should have left them there after 1931
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)Cyrano
(15,051 posts)hiding somewhere on Ripley's ship.
librechik
(30,676 posts)send in the National Guard!
heh
world wide wally
(21,754 posts)Mustellus
(328 posts).. is now Oklahoma !!!!
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)yourself -
When I checked last week, about 0.1% of the people in Liberia had had any contact with Ebola.
If it is that easy to catch, why aren't they all dead or dying by now?
IronLionZion
(45,514 posts)just in case: