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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCenter-right Democrats finally face a formidable challenge -- and that has them terrified
The piece triggered a fierce backlash against Third Way, and even two co-chairs of the organization disavowed Cowan and Kessler’s anti-populist screed. But the plutocratic wing of the Democratic Party hasn’t breathed its last, and the latest centrist attack on progressive populism is a real doozy.
It comes courtesy of a Politico Magazine essay by Progressive Policy Institute president Will Marshall. A co-founder of the now-shuttered center right group the Democratic Leadership Council and a onetime aide to former Sen. Joe Lieberman, Marshall has long been a leading agitator on behalf of a more right-leaning Democratic Party. Aggressively hawkish on foreign affairs – Marshall was associated with the erstwhile neoconservative group the Project for a New American Century and was a big booster of the Iraq War – Marshall also harbors distinctly center-right views on economic issues, joining deficit scolds in railing against so-called “’borrow and spend’ policies” and championing “entitlement reform” and corporate tax cuts.
Marshall’s central thesis is that to win power, Democrats must capture the loyalties of moderate voters. Given the high number of Americans who tell pollsters that they’re “moderate” in their political orientation, it sounds sensible enough. But Marshall proceeds to simply ascribe to rank-and-file moderates the center-right views of the Beltway punditocracy, the better to make his case that progressive populism is a losing prospect. To win moderate voters, Marshall writes, Democrats must shun “leftish orthodoxy” on by “supporting trade agreements, real accountability in education, changes in entitlements, development of America’s shale-gas windfall and efforts to lower regulatory obstacles to entrepreneurship.” The party must refocus its efforts toward reducing the budget deficit and national debt, and it must place a higher priority on “economic growth,” not “redistribution to achieve equality.”
From a purely political standpoint – the vantage from which Marshall is primarily writing – this is nothing short of bunk. <snip>
Link: http://www.salon.com/2014/10/10/the_progressives_are_coming_why_the_latest_attempt_to_%E2%80%9Csave%E2%80%9D_democrats_from_populism_is_so_pathetic/
Is economic populism really a "dead-end" in the Democratic Party? I had always thought such to be central TO the Democratic Party. What happened?
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H2O Man
(73,561 posts)Thank you for posting this.
Economic populism is definitely not a "dead end" for the Democratic Party. Rather, it is the prescription for removing the tape worms from the bowels of the party.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Mister Nightowl
(396 posts)Barbarians who want to turn this country's clock back 150 years.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Trying to OPEN the gates?
pocoloco
(3,180 posts)Right wing wackos in one and wimps with no backbone in the other!
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)with no backbone. I think they are ideologues committed to neo-liberalism who are trying to take over the Democratic Party completely just like they took over the Republican Party many decades ago.
The Third Way types are just a barbarian as the ones at the gates. But instead of being at the gates they're inside the house.
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)The fish rots at the head. It is the leadership - not us - who gave these people power inside the party.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)Third Way wants to turn the clock back the same as the RWNJ barbarians. Let them have each other.
amb123
(1,581 posts)To vote for a party that want's to turn this country's clock back 150 years (Republicans) or a party that want's to turn the clock back merely 85 years to the days before the Great Depression (Democrats)?
If the Democratic Party ceases to be a liberal, progressive, populist party and becomes the party that Will Marshall wants it to be, the Democratic Party must die. And it deserves to die.
kath
(10,565 posts)that Will Marshall wants it to be, the Democratic Party must die. And it deserves to die."
Roger that! + a brazillion.
Fuck the Third Way assholes, Trojan Horses, and all DINOs.
We desparately need a party that is for the PEOPLE, not just the 1%.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)already have. Most comments I get from people that don't care about voting is D=R for the most part and they don't like either because they are too right wing, and do not address the real issues of the majority of the people and side with the 1%. Until the democratic party has the guts to stand up for more center-left issues, principles, this backwash will continue. Many democrats today have no guts!
2banon
(7,321 posts)Last edited Sun Oct 12, 2014, 01:24 AM - Edit history (1)
of the plutocrats. Always has been. Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Conservatism are virtually one and the same. We correctly call out Neo-Cons! on their monstrous domestic and bloodthirsty foreign policy edicts, but we fail to recognize that Neo-"liberals" are cut from same cloth. And they've been working their game for decades. It's become institutionalized.
More and more people though are finally removing the woolen veil from their eyes and shedding their rose colored glasses, no longer willing to sing the party line on command.
We voted for change and we didn't get that, but we shouldn't have expected it either. It's taken generations to undo FDR , and it will likely take another generation or more to restore much of what he accomplished and better.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)Be cynical (as I tend to be in most cases). But don't lie down.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Conservative Democrats are conservatives and not friends of the Democratic Party. The "barbarians at the gates" are conservatives not just Republicans.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Does that mean we can never take the time to correct in-house problems?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to kick these infiltrators from the FAR RIGHT OUT OF OUR PARTY!
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)she be a Third Way, Wall Street, Pentagon kiss ass. What do you think?
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)is a rethuglican. There is a reason the DLC was shuttered. Sorry to hear the PPI has drifted right. They were a good resource at one time.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)It's always been on the right since it was founded by Marshall in 1989. Progressive Policy Institute has an Orwellian ring to it, although probably not intentially A neoconservative foreign policy and a neoliberal economic policy is the kind of neo-anderthal thinking that one usually associates with the Republicans. There's nothing progressive about it.
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)I was confusing it with a California group.
aggiesal
(8,919 posts)secure the base?
What's this "... Democrats must capture the loyalties of moderate voters." bull $hit?
How about capturing the loyalties of the voters that got you elected?
I know it's a novel concept.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)We have the best Government that money can buy.
7962
(11,841 posts)More of the country identifies themselves as "moderate" than liberal or conservative. The past 2 elections they went the way of Pres Obama. The RW of the GOP doesnt get this and thinks they need to go MORE right to get more votes. It will be interesting to see how they spin a MASSIVE loss in '16 if they run a candidate like Ted Cruz. (although it would be fun to see how birthers would handle HIM!)
aggiesal
(8,919 posts)the base and cater to the moderates.
That will win all kinds of elections.
Good luck with that.
7962
(11,841 posts)It's BEEN winning elections getting the votes of the middle. You CANT win without them. You just have to do a good job of convincing them why its in their best interest.
Read the right wing website. They say the exact same thing. Yet their most conservative candidates are WAY behind Hillary in the polls and all wouldve lost to pres Obama in '12 too. Yet Romney would win if the '12 race were held today. Let THEM splinter up. Huckabee is already talking about being an "independent".
aggiesal
(8,919 posts)Then in the next sentence you write
"Its BEEN winning elections getting the votes of the middle."
So the tea party been winning election getting votes from the middle
and I'm the one that sounds like the tea party?
I say cater to the base, and you say, what you claim the tea party is doing,
to cater to the mddle.
Umm, am I missing something here?
7962
(11,841 posts)they want further right candidates and stop worrying about moderates. They say the PROBLEM is not having conservative enough candidates.
You're saying the same thing, just left.
Sorry it came out sounding mixed up.
MontyPow
(285 posts)Just talk about policy and progressives win every time. We don't need to pander to who others claim we should capture. The majority is with progressive policies. It always has been.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)proven in polls over and over again. So let's stop with this nonsense that we used to hear only from Fox et al.
A majority of the country right now is INDEPENDENT. Both parties are losing voters, losing their base.
And who are these 'moderates' the Dem party needs to attract? They WON in 2008 because they ran on a Liberal, not MODERATE, platform. They got the Independent and youth vote. But the promises of the campaign, a Public Option, LIBERAL no?, an end to Bush foreign policies, another LIBERAL policy, no mandated insurance, another LIBERAL policy, THAT is what won the 2008 election by a large margin.
When those campaign promises turned into Third Way policies, Dems LOST the house in 2010.
So let's stop with this talking point, it is false.
aggiesal
(8,919 posts)You stated "Because you can't win without them."
Well look what happened.
Those Democrats that catered to the base won, and those that
catered to the "moderates" got their a$$ kicked.
First rule of campaigning has always been - Cater To Your Base
Second rule of campaigning is - Cater To Your Base
Everyone else will follow.
Oh, did I mention, Cater To Your Base!!!
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)Fuck 'em.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)
gvstn
(2,805 posts)Is that the media rarely discusses actual issues and policies. Everything in political reporting is about the latest "gaffe" and if it will hurt a politician's chances never a discussion about what a politician wants to do in office and how it will effect voters. Even the rare debates are rarely discussed in terms of actual policies or ideals.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)And, even then you're more likely to get platitudes and evasions.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Isn't this about the 1,000,000th time Center-right Democrats "finally face a formidable challenge" that has them "terrified?" Is it the real deal this time?
A woman I know once made a comment about Cosmopolitan Magazine. She said they've been publishing the same "Hot sex moves you must try" article, re-titled, every month for 10 years.
I kinda feel that way about the KOS/Salon/etc. regurgitation of the same anti-centrist meme month after month.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Seriously, what the fuck are center right Democrats? You know what they are? Republicans. There is no such thing as a center right Democrat.
But hey, its cool if you want to be associated with PNAC, rail against "tax and spend", advocate cutting both social programs and corporate taxes. Just stop telling the lie that you are a Democrat.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...they vote with Republicans to damned much.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)the Progressives and Conservatives. There are a lot of conservative Democrats that support the American Aristocracy,.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)What is wrong with this picture? (the American capitalist system, that is)
Never mind, the question is rhetorical ...
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)They're only half as shitty as the Rethugs? Or something else?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)They do not go to DC to do public service...obviously since so few actually serve the public. Rather, they go there for personal gain...nothing more, nothing less.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)It seems that some think we should support anyone who sticks a "D" behind his/her name. It takes far more to be a Democrat, like a demonstrated, proven commitment to Democratic ideals.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner.
The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies
The con as it is played by these Republican grifters is simple, be a Republican on all fiscal issues, emulating Reagan and their kindred economic conservative counterparts in the Republican party while selling a thin veneer of socially liberal policies to trick the old constituencies into thinking they are actually Democrats, they believe pro-choice and marriage equality is all they need to claim Democratic membership even tho they are identical to the other Republicans regarding trickle down, cutting social spending and pretty much every other right wing fiscal wet dream, they are even more pro bad trade deals than their brethren in the Republican party that they emulate. Wyldwolf can explain it better, he is an unashamed fan of the third way Reagan dream, a true believer from what I can tell by reading his posts for several years..
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)It all makes sense now.
moonbeam23
(312 posts)Why do these fuckers even bother calling themselves Democrats??...why not just change parties and leave us alone???
WHOSE PAYROLL ARE THEY ON??!!
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)possibly do any better than to have control over both parties. Conservatives running as Democrats is certainly NOT by accident.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)They think that Reagan dressed up in some token liberal social issues fools more than the marks, but it does not, they are fiscally conservative right wingers in all but the social issue lipstick they put on their Republican lips and everyone knows it but the low information marks and personality cultists that they are fleecing for their well healed paymasters..
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... bother to vote is either very stupid on the part of leaders true to traditional Democratic values or a subterfuge policy enacted by conservatives who have infiltrated the Democratic Party. I personally see it as the latter.
http://www.democracyjournal.org/arguments/2013/09/politicians-think-american-voters-are-more-conservative-than-they-really-are.php
What is more, the mistakes legislators make tend to fall in one direction, giving U.S. politics a rightward tilt compared to what most voters say they want. As the following figures show, legislators usually believe their constituents are more conservative than they actually are. Our attitude measurements are most accurate on the questions about same sex marriage and universal health insurance – and in both instances the legislators’ guesses about their constituents’ views were 15-20 percent more conservative, on average, than the true public support for same-sex marriage or universal health care present in their districts.
We're a much more progressive nation than we're allowed to believe we are.
Nay
(12,051 posts)That's exactly what this is. You know, for years we've talked about how the RWers started 30 years ago by putting up RW candidates for every little local office like dogcatcher, school board, etc., and expanded their power simply by just having thousands and thousands of people in all sorts of offices. They built upon that and keep on winning. Why is it so hard for people to see that they ALSO INFILTRATED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY??
That's exactly what they did. The voters themselves are much farther left than 95% of the Democrats they are forced to vote for, because THOSE CANDIDATES AREN'T DEMOCRATS. It's no wonder we seethe with rage.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)repackaged. Excellent article. K & R.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)How about redistribution to achieve economic fairness.
THAT is all that I see an overwhelming majority of progressives fighting for (a living wage for example).
They are such pieces of shit. Truly.
P.S. To the assholes of the world: MAJOR economic growth will happen when we begin to achieve economic fairness via living wages.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)I've had a poster here flat out tell me the Democrats need to move to the right, because liberals can't be trusted--despite the facts being shown to him that liberals are the most consistent voters for the Dems.
You can guess which potential 2016 candidate that poster supports.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)see productivity as being critically dependent upon both capital and labor wherein demand creates opportunities for productive investment and expansion of wealth for all.
It seems likely that the awareness of importance of labor and consumption to productivity very much contributed to integrating social policy with economic policy in the aftermath of the Great Depression.
Current economic thinking seems to have liberated itself from considerations of labor, consumer, and consequently social policy.
Decision making is focused on facilitating capital growth even if that sacrifices consideration of the context of economy within social realities, and introduces certain danger through the confusion of productivity with mere concentration of capital.
The consequence of the current thinking that capital is the "be all", is that governance by elites of the pro-corporate folks in -either- party is not bound to consider social values that should be driven by productivity. The over-riding consideration of government is to act to facilitate accumulation of capital.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Milton Friedman and most other conservative economic theorists fail to understand the very basic role that labor needs to play in order to have a healthy robust economy that benefits the whole and thereby strengthens the whole. If only both parties had not fully adopted the Chicago model perhaps we could have continued on a path to prosperity that we were beginning to enjoy under the Keynesian model (which I believe grew what was once the most prosperous and vital middle class in the world, all of which is being dissolved under this new misguided conservative approach) .
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)A whole lot of money has been made in selling what are essentially promises, whose value was literally intended to be non-producing derivatives surrounding what was once production.
In the months leading up to the 08 crash, value in the form of dividends based on sale of goods and services wasn't even considered necessary to move a stock price upwards.
The paper being traded doesn't always really involve labor or consumers of traditional economies centered on industrial productivity.
It seems possible to view capital accumulation of the Wall Street recovery as merely a re-inflationary expansion of the value of ownership achieved by the trading of paper.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Fictional "products" based on nothing but air and equations can only produce bubbles destined to burst as they lack real substance. Of course the only thing such a financial system can produce is a means to transfer wealth to those that carefully design the bubbles to achieve that very end.
We desperately need to get back to an economy based on real assets, actual goods and services that have inherent value. I would prefer an economic system based on industrial productivity as objects with real value can be created from resources utilizing labor and would result in incomes for those that labor (to spend on actual things being made)as well as concrete items with value that can be traded or sold.
I often wonder how the hell we got so far away from a real economy with real products, productivity, and labor value. How does a country live on paper and equations alone? How can such possibly continue for long?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)to print zeros behind dollar amounts on spreadsheets?
I've never really given much thought to monetary policy, but I know that in the late 90's or early 00's, reporting of certain measures of money was abandoned. Did that open the door for effectively printing funny money?
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)actually have. Why and how they are allowed to do this is beyond what I know about such things, but it scares the hell out of me that one can leverage billions of dollars that one can not produce if/when the gamble fails (the reason tax money was needed to pay those markers in the bailout). It would certainly be illegal if you or I tried to do such a thing. 
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)I enjoyed that, the closest thing to a discussion I've had on DU in a year.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)That our entire economy is now riding on paper and vapor with nothing solid to back it.
joanbarnes
(1,722 posts)
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)and feel encouraged to vote for this bullshit. The Democratic party is in big trouble.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)If the coronation happens in 2016, it's going to get ugly
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Triana
(22,666 posts)
marmar
(77,084 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
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The thread is an attack on moderate Democrats. I thought this is DEMOCRATIC Underground not Left Wing Underground.
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NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Given that, I would like to send out a BIG Thank You to Jurors #1, #2, #4, #5, #6, and #7 who helped to keep this visible. While it no doubt rubs the third-way crew the wrong way, it is nevertheless a topic that is on the mind of many Democrats. instead of continually attempting to shut down and hide from conversation, I would much rather they actually discuss WHY they stand for things that they do such as trade agreements, cuts to the social safety net, etc. Why must they proceed to do such things behind closed doors, with no public input or discussion? If they are all such good ideas worthy of Democratic support, then why is it impossible for them to speak their mind freely?
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Because they have something to hide, NorthCarolina. They are shysters. They are dividing and conquering. They have a new and improved shell game which centers on words, instead of a little marble under a trio of moving shells. They are thieves and are stealing the Democratic Party right out from under us.
Politos like us can distinguish who they are by what they say, but John Q. Public out there on the hustings or young American adults surfing DU aren't as keen at it. This is something that has driven me absolutely nuts for a long time. If TPTB will only let us have two political parties, then political candidates need to get in the party they BELONG in. IMHO.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)even when proposed by bullshit Democrats.
Rex
(65,616 posts)their past few days of Kick the Lefty threads are a complete failure. 
2banon
(7,321 posts)jeepers
(314 posts)what programs he supported, what he did and what he would have done, do you think he could win the democratic nomination for president in 2016? Let me remind you that cousin Teddy, American hero and hero of the republican party, couldn't secure his parties nomination in 1910.
If unable to win the democratic nomination, if FDR ran as a third party candidate would you vote for him?
I believe that there is a coalition of disaffected democrats and disaffected republicans all the way from Appalachian poor to middle class suburban al over this country who would welcome a message of social justice and might vote third party.
With so many Americans out of options and dissatisfied with the political process, it would be suicide for democrats or republicans to scream or depend on party loyalty in the face of a third party populist challenge.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Is the purity test - getting rid of us Lefty Progressive hippies - before or after the elections?
Triana
(22,666 posts). . . that Democrats must become Republicans to win.
Just because Republicans have gone off the rightwing deep end does NOT mean Democrats have to scoot to the middle to take the political space Republicans used to occupy. What a load of maggot-infested bullshit.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)the nut jobs who want to PURIFY the Democratic party into oblivion!
<thick german accent>YOU DON"T BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE SO YOU AREN"T A DEMOCRAT!</thick german accent>
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Do you agree with the Lieberman-PNAC wing? Do you agree that we need to slash social programs, cut back spending, and lower corporate taxes? None of that amounts to a purity test, those are positions the Democratic party stands fundamentally opposed to, or at least used to. Anyone that think those right-wing policies are hunky dory is a Republican, pure and simple.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Does Marshall really expect that progressive Democrats will believe his skewed Republican beliefs?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)Marshall wants Democratic politicians to become war mongering, greedy, environmnetal destroyers, who prey on the poor by cutting social programs and champion the rich by giving them less regulation and less taxes.... So he wants Democrats to turn into Republicons. Oh I get it now..... LOL>..
Phlem
(6,323 posts)exactly what has happened to the left party. The Democratic Party. And they "Will Marshall" and his cohorts are the people responsible. Period. Will Marshall needs to be completely and forever put on ignore.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Screwed up like the GOP has, someone please point this out.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)That's total bullshit. Center Right is the Republican party, Center Left is Democratic party. Anything that crosses is an abomination. For FFS folks, when did we dispense with common sense.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)And Democrats instead of being a proper counterbalance to the Republican Party eventually helped to shift the Republican Party to the right and the whole politics of America to the right. Center Right Democrats helped the oligarchy to attain power and have contributed to the decline of America.
Americans keep on polling favorable to left leaning policies, they just don't like the labels because especially older generations ate up propaganda that demonized liberals.
Marr
(20,317 posts)They used to dress it up a little, but they don't even seem to bother with a fig leaf anymore. Everything Marshall laid out there is classic right-wing policy-- and not even moderate right-wing policy.
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)I'm not saying vote left 100% of the time but when you have an opportunity to do something progressive you should do it.
Rex
(65,616 posts)They behave just like libertarians. I think they are our parties Teabaggers. All they ever do is complain and NEVER come up with ideas.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)There is left and there is right. You can't be pro-enviornment and anti-regulation for instance. Or pro-women's rights and anti LGBT rights. It's just hypocrisy.
7962
(11,841 posts)I hear it constantly.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)by your standards.
There is economic left and right and social left and right.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)And therein lies the problem.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)I remember at least since the 90's their op-ed page always got very very strident when it came to any candidate, incumbent, or pundit that espoused economic populism even remotely. As another poster said; it was always in a finger-wagging "eat your peas, we know what's best for you" tone.
This was all the more apparent if a republican was an economic populist. For example: Though Pat Buchanan was/is a categoric demagogue on many issues, his economic populism and anti -"free trade" message really resonated with the public, and sent the plutocrats of the WSJ into full Defcon-5 alert when he won some primaries. They really freaked out.
