The long, LONG, LONGER list of VEGAN-CAUSED health ailments, diseases, and deaths..

[Veganhealedme]

This might be a good opportunity to request a new DU smiley emoticon.

**CRICKETS**

My next OP..

MEAT caused human ailments and diseases that lead to early death and poor quality of life.
No snark, no crickets. You'll get to see a really long list.

Wanna compare the health of a vegan to that of a meat eater?

Recently, my doc asked me while holding my complete lab results(my doc checks everything when he runs my bloodwork/labs)

"What is your secret?" (im 43)

My answer: "Veganism"

Vegan healed my diabetes.
Hence, my name.

Why do you think Bill Clinton went organic vegan? In his own words, it was to save his life.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Three very important words for you: Sample. Of. One. nt

[kestrel91316]

17. Lots of McDougallers would challenge your comment.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/index.php

[Veganhealedme]

24. Damn skimpy!

[mainer]

61. oh God. That quack. I know something about him.

I lived in Hawaii, where McDougall lived. Plenty of witnesses saw him at a restaurant, eating a huge steak.

[Veganhealedme]

69. Be honest, who's really the quack,

the doctor that prescribes toxic rx meds?(Have you seen the latest heart warning for lipitor, the #1 presribed drug)

Or the doctor that advocates for healthy eating, even if he/she stumbles and has an occasional steak?

Who is the real quack?(I do admit that almost every doctor is forced to be a prescribe first, ask questions later, type of doctor, because of the way that big pharma owns our medical system)

[Applan]

92. Or two

I have had very similar results and lost thirty pounds in the process. At 52 I feel more healthy than I did ten years ago thanks to a mostly vegan diet

[longship]

2. Everything in moderation.

That makes for the best health.

That includes veganism, if one is so inclined.

And meat, if one is so inclined.

And potable alcohol, if one is so inclined.

[JEB]

179. I try to not go overboard with the moderation. Badda bing!

[Nye Bevan]

3. Bill Clinton is a vegan. Except when he isn't.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/is-bill-clinton-lying-about-being-a-vegan/blogEntry?id=23321713&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[Veganhealedme]

21. Try to put yourself in the shoes of a vegan for a moment..

there are some challenges that over the course of time, a newly aspiring vegan will be confronted with.

Eating out with family or friends.
Lack of vegan options on menus.
Holiday family get-togethers.
Traveling and trying to find vegan options can be nearly impossible at times.

There are a few hurdles from time to time.

-AND-

Most vegans will have a time where they 'fall off the wagon' for a day or two.

What drives them back to veganism?
I've been a strict vegan for the past 7 years. I've tried meat a couple of times over that span. When I ate meat, I felt like shit afterwards.

Health and the feeling of good well-being is what keeps me honest and on an organic plant-only diet.

It's very common for a new vegan to 'stumble' given the many hurdles that a new vegan will be confronted with.

Just the transformation of gut microbes, beneficial bacteria, removal of meat caused gut parasites can cause much weird indigestion problems in the first few days that a person attempts to eat a pure plant-based diet. This alone can cause many to fail when they attempt to transform to vegan eating.

That's just it. It is a whole body transformation that will have a rocky start. That indigestion is plant food pissing off the bad meat loving parasites and microbes. After a few days, they die off and are removed from the body if a person just sticks it out.

I always tell people to try vegan for 7 days and see how you feel after 7 days. Do you then want to go back?

[KittyWampus]

30. I'm vegan, except for when I'm not. And make no bones about it.

Some people may be dogmatic about it. Others, like me, aren't.

[cwydro]

131. I know, that is one of my favorite things.

I eat meat rarely, but I don't call myself a vegetarian.

SO MANY co-workers over the years telling me they are vegetarians. Then I see the KFC bag or whatever...and I joke...oh you back to eating meat?

And they always say. No, I only eat chicken.

"Mostly" vegan? "Mostly" vegetarian?

[Nye Bevan]

135. I bet Bill is all "yes, I'm a vegan" when Chelsea is around,

but I have a sneaking suspicion that once in a while he will indulge in a huge juicy steak with his buddies "to make sure I get my protein".

[MADem]

152. I love the way the article accuses him of "lying" and then QUOTES him "admitting."

The guy is plainly, a "sometimes vegan." He is one, except when he isn't. And he's "admitted" that...

In a September 2013 AARP Magazine profile, Clinton revealed that he eats fish and eggs "once a week or so" in order "to maintain iron, zinc and muscle mass."

Clinton has also admitted to snatching a single bite of turkey on Thanksgiving.

[Egnever]

4. I am going to assume you were type 2 diabetic

and if so I highly doubt vegan healed anything, you drastically reduced your carb intake. If anything being vegan masked your diabetes.

Also 43 is pretty young. If you are falling apart at 43 you are doing something seriously wrong.

[Veganhealedme]

62. I was diagnosed Type-2 when I was 33.

That's when I decided to change my diet to vegan. I was also diagnosed with elevated cholesterol at that time.

I slowly converted to vegan over the course of the next year. I've been a pretty strict vegan for about 7 years or so. So long I forget.

My diabetes is long gone. I eat a lot of fruit carbs from bananas, pears, apples etc. I still check my A1C/glucose and it always checks out great.

I am on NO toxic rx medications, like lipitor etc.

[noiretextatique]

94. vegan doesn't necessarily = low-carb

my doctor told me the best thing i could do for my type 2 diabetes was to limit my meat and carb intake. my nurse friend says she knows many people who have reversed type 2 with diet and exercise.

[Warpy]

103. Low carb isn't absolutely necessary as long as it's low simple sugar

and unless it's a junk food vegan (who has a huge list of medical problems) the Big Gulps and Tastee Cakes are out.

What happens with veganism, especially at first, is weight loss and weight loss is what normalizes the blood sugar. As long as people know what they're doing and getting balanced nutrition, it's a healthy way to live.

Normalizing blood sugar by weight loss might be temporary. I've seen quite a few very thin elderly people with type 2 diabetes. However, it buys a lot of time during which damage is not being done to your body.

Some people do very well when they eliminate meat. Others feel deprived and low energy without it. Listening to what your bod is telling you is the best policy.

[noiretextatique]

136. yes...i know, since i have type 2

the best thing i ever did was to see a nutritionist. i was a vegetarian for five years a while ago. it took some getting used to, but i didn't miss meat after a few months. i don't like dairy much anyway, so that wasn't a problem. i would like to try a vegan diet, just to kick start my weight loss goals. thanks for the information.

[Warpy]

140. Just get a good book that covers nutrition

and doesn't suffer from chef-itis, requiring dozens of scarce ingredients and a staff to do prep.

One of my favorites was Ten Talents, a 7th Day Adventist book with lots of bible stuff but even more simple, tasty recipes. I haven't found one stinker of a recipe and I've cooked out of that book for over 20 years. There is a reason it's stayed in print all these years.

Oh, and when you fry tofu, coat it with cornstarch first. You won't believe the difference, going from a soggy, oily mess with patches of brown to a golden brown foodstuff with a little crunch on the outside of the soft tofu.

That's something I've never found in any cookbook.

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Talents-Cookbook-Rosalie-Hurd/dp/0615255973/ref=sr_1_1/190-5215800-7828740?ie=UTF8&qid=1412826304&sr=8-1&keywords=10+talents+cookbook

[Egnever]

104. It pretty much eliminates high glycemic load carbs

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 11:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Which are carbs that spike your blood sugar.

Once again I would caution against calling a change of diet a reversal of type 2. It is a change in diet that eliminates once again carbs with high glycemic loads that spike blood sugar levels.

Here is a chart with glycemic loads listed, note that almost every single item that would be considered Vegan has a low glycemic load. All carbs are not created equal.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm

[noiretextatique]

137. my last A1C was 5.5

so, i think i am doing pretty well. nurses i know claim they know people who have no symptoms of the disease with diet and exercise changes, doctors...not so much.

[Egnever]

138. No symptoms and reversal are not the same thing

Glad you are doing well just the same.

[noiretextatique]

174. thanks...got it eom

[eridani]

145. There is no "cure" for a genetic disease

However, it is possible to have crappy genes and still maintain good blood sugar control. I think of it has having a badly frayed macrame hanger that you use only with light plastic pots. You haven't fixed the hanger--you've just successfully avoided overloading it.

[noiretextatique]

175. fine...asymptomatic, anyone?

you can be asymptomatic, as i am now.

[eridani]

182. As good a term as any. You can overcome a genetic defect by avoiding--

--overstressing the system. If you've done that, it's an excellent thing.

[noiretextatique]

187. i am trying

stress reduction and management is a huge part of my program. thanks for the conversation.

[kdmorris]

157. You can't reverse Type 2 Diabetes

You can control it, but there is no reversal.

As a counterpoint to your argument - I'm 45, still eat meat, but learned to control my simple sugars. I eat whole wheat bread, whole fruits, meat and dairy (butter instead of margerine). I eat 6 times a day - small meals with a balance of protein and complex carbs...and my last HbA1c was 5.6. My last cholesterol test was 167.

I am not cured. But I do a DAMN good job of controlling my Type 2 Diabetes.

And I'm not vegan.

[Marr]

184. Exactly.

Claiming it "cured" his diabetes is somewhat odd. A diet of "less of the same stuff you're already eating" would've done the same thing.

[justabob]

5. um, what? Leafy greens can kill you just the same

Not sure what vegan has to do with anything, but just a few short years ago we had massive issues with tomatoes, jalapenos, and spinach, just to name a few off the top of my head. People all over the country got sick and they couldn't trace the source. *All* food can be deadly if not handled correctly.

[Veganhealedme]

25. Answer: Kitchen vinegar or food grade hydrogen peroxide kills pathogens.

I wash all my fruits, vegs, greens etc. I sanitize with vinegar or food grade H2O2.

Most pathogens that have caused said contaminations are in fact the result of manure runoff from livestock operations upriver etc. Or they can also come from human contamination, such as a farm worker not washing his/her hands and then handling produce.

Should we bring up the topic of meat borne pathogens?

Want to make your kitchen far cleaner overnight? Remove meat dairy and all animal products and give vegan a try.

Replace the smell of bloody raw meat with fresh cut lemon or ginger and you'll experience what a clean, fresh kitchen is all about. Trust me on this.

[Warpy]

109. E coli is killed by UV light

so if you're super paranoid, get one of those to run your leafy greens under.

It also kills Ebola, so it's a twofer.

[Applan]

88. wasn't that because they were contaminated with animal shit?

Runoff from feedlots and other disgusting places?

[DontTreadOnMe]

6. I have quite a few Vegetarian friends.. not full vegan

AND NONE OF THEM look that healthy.. in fact one guy is very overweight. He eats eggs and cheese all the time.

I do agree that most people do not eat enough vegetables and fruits. They taste good, go ahead and eat more!

But meat, chicken and FISH all taste good too, and are healthy for humans. Please don't try to pass off that meat is bad for you, it is just not real science.

[mainer]

19. Once you cut out meat, you satisfy your hunger with with carbs.

The vegetarians I know are obese. And they used to be skinny when they were eating meat.

[Veganhealedme]

27. Cheese can be like poison if overconsumed..

Vegetarianism is not even close to veganism. Although there are healthy forms of a vegetarian diet, not all said diets are unhealthy. It's all about eatig the right foods and eliminating the inflammatory, heart killing foods. Like cheese, especially in excess.

I too know people that tried vegetarianism and ended up eating unhealthier as a result, because they wrecked an otherwise healthy diet by just a few bad food choices, like cheese or a 7 layer burrito(even meat free).

[tridim]

164. Uhm you're going to need to back up the "cheese is like poison" thing.

Because you're 100% wrong about it.

You're in serious woo territory now.

[mucifer]

156. The OP is about veganism not vegetarianism

[KittyWampus]

31. Good for you, not good for the environment. But hey! Mmmmmm…. industrial meat.

[bobclark86]

82. I wonder...

Just how many nonrenewable resources it took to build the computer you are using to post ... And the resources that do get reused, I wonder how much of it will happen through massive piles of burning motherboards picked apart by young children in developing nations. I won't even go into the power generation you use to run your computer -- unless you live near a dam, it's probably produced primarily from fossil fuels, and even if you do live near a dam, there is some fossil power to fill the need. How about that vehicle that transports you around? Even buses need gas and rape the rain forest for rubber. Now, how about the peasants in the Andes who can't afford their basic staple quinoa because it's all being sold by Whole Foods to vegans and the price has increased by an order of magnitude, so now the natives are all eating ramen noodles and have seen malnutrition rates spike?

This game is fun! I love High Horse!

[laundry_queen]

130. OH god. yes. What you just said. nt

[SheilaT]

8. I'd like to add that I'm 66, a happy and enthusiastic

meat-eater, and I have none of the degenerative diseases or conditions that the vegans and vegetarians assure us are inevitable.

[RebelOne]

10. I am 75 years old and happy and healthy.

My only health problem is high blood pressure, which is genetic, and it is controlled by medication.

[Veganhealedme]

34. Can you explain the rising rates of 10 year old children..

being diagnosed with so-called 'adult-onset' type-2 diabetes AND the precursors to heart disease?

Why do so many people die of heart attacks in there 40's and 50's still to this day?

Why is lipitor(cholesterol) the #1 prescribed drug in America? insulin is likely close behind..

I'd say that you are more an exception than the norm. I'm 43 and have seen many close to me dieing early deaths because they ate a meat based standard American diet(SAD).

My father died of heart failure at the age of 57. A close friend of mine died at the age of 41, while working on an assembly line at a local factory, dropped dead instantly among his coworkers from a severe brain aneurism.

Whether its the cooked saturated fat that is a proven health destroyer or the addition of meat preservatives in processed meats like sodium nitrate, meat is a health destroyer. Unless you are able to eat only the healthiest cuts which not many people can afford nowadays.

Not only is my vegan diet far cheaper, it is reversing the health woes that my former SAD, meat-based diet created. Health is cheaper and easier in the long run.

[backwoodsbob]

42. my guess would be a sedentary lifestyle

most vegans are obviously people who think about health and living healthy.
The general public not so much.

Kids who sit in front of a tv playing games all day chomping cheezy puufs and sitting on their asses will be likely not healthy

[Veganhealedme]

46. Sedentary lifestyle kicks one leg out from under a healthy body..

unhealthy eating kicks the other leg out from under a healthy body.

We are what we eat and drink.

[backwoodsbob]

52. we will have to agree to disagree

children were eating meat thousands of years ago and have ever since.The obesity epidemic and diabeties epidemic among children has occurred in the last 40.
The sedentary lifestyle has caused the problem.

[chervilant]

67. You might want to view a few documentaries

about consumption of animal products in the US today, before you stand fast on your "sedentary lifestyle" assertion. I did copious research before I became a Vegan. I recommend "Food, Inc.," and "Food Matters." "Forks over Knives" is another good one.

Since becoming a Vegan, I've lost over sixty pounds -- without changing how much I eat or how often. I feel so much better. I recognize that Veganism isn't for everyone, but the over-consumption of animal products is directly linked to heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, stroke and obesity.

[backwoodsbob]

72. again...we will have to agree to disagree

show me the epidemic of diabeties and obesity in children in the 1800's.Children then ate FAR MORE meat and dairy in their diet as a percentage than they do now and yet they didn't have an obesity problem

[chervilant]

74. According to which scientific studies? What source are you quoting?

Really, Bob? You can disagree all you want, but the research is clear and unimpeachable.

[backwoodsbob]

79. why do I need studies?you yourself impeached your own argument

you said *the rising rates* of obesity and diabetes were caused by eating meat and yet we are eating meat as a percentage of food at a lower rate than 100 years ago.

Why werent children dropping like flies 100 years ago?
Even 50 years ago the number one topping on a steak was a big slab of butter yet children werent dropping like flies then.
It isn't meat causing the problem...it's lifestyle

[chervilant]

93. What?!?

You just keep making insupportable assertions, bob. And, I'll keep doing what works for me and many others.

[backwoodsbob]

100. we need someone to do a study then

1000 families whose children eat whatever they want and do sports and outdoor activities and are otherwise active

vs

1000 families who live a vegan life where the children are allowed to live a sedentary life.

I PROMISE YOU the 1000 meateating and active children are healthier

[chervilant]

110. I PROMISE you that your words are not true

just because you utter them.

Copious amounts of research substantiate the links I've posted. You've shown that you prefer to believe your own opinions over the scientific articles and documentaries that I've suggested. So, rest assured that you can stay on your precious soapbox. Your defensiveness is duly noted.

[chervilant]

132. I know exactly where you belong...

And, I am putting you there right now. Ta-ta.

[napi21]

133. I've been reading through all the posts here and I have to say, it's going to be really HARD

to find 1000 families with kids who don't spend hours and hours on their computer, Gameboy, etc. to ever do a test like that.

My grandson is a star hockey player in his HS. He's played hockey for quite a few years. Last year he was on 3 different reams, this year only two, but hockey doesn't take up much of your time except for weekends. The rest of the time you won't find him without his cell phone (usually playing a game) or his tablet, or computer. he's fit and not fat at all. His sister is a vegetarian, and has been for the last four years. She fights getting fat all the time! It's heredity folks. Same as length of life and most inherited disseases like diabetes, anemia, high blood pressure, heart problems, and on and on. The Grandson is just like his father...at 44 he's still quite fit and not overweight. The granddaughter is just like her mother who has been on a diet since she was 14!

Other than the heredity factor, I agree with all the other posters who blame obesity and many of the health problems on the youth on lifestyle.

[Veganhealedme]

73. Spoken like someone that's done their research! +1000. nt

[chervilant]

99. In my experience, those who react most negatively about Veganism,

have the worst eating habits.

(The coworkers who poke fun at me are diabetic, and/or overweight...)

[lunasun]

108. Also raw for thirty is a good doc. I have sent it to relatives but they say you don't have diabetes

So you wouldn't understand
K what don't I understand ? No McD on this food menu?
I do not think it is the only route but a healthy one and I am not 100%
Also raw and vegan are both different from vegetarian

Apr 30, 2013 - Uploaded by WorldTruthSociety
I dedicate this to my Uncle Paul who died from diabetes two years ago on Easter

[Veganhealedme]

117. BTW, Chervilant congrats!

on your successful transformation.

Great personal testimony. Fully agree too.

[SheilaT]

116. Why do I have to explain all that?

I'm just pushing back at the vegan preaching here. I'm glad you're happy and healthy on a vegan diet. I'm happy and healthy on an omnivore's diet.

[Arugula Latte]

178. I am no defender of meat or meat eating (I haven't eaten red meat for decades), but

it's my understanding that now the consensus on heart disease is that sugar is the main culprit in making the artery walls "sticky" and conducive to plaque formation.

But frankly I'd be happy if meat eating disappeared all together. Factory farming is torture beyond imagination.

[Drahthaardogs]

188. Statins save lives and there are more nitrates in a bunch of celery

Than a 3 pound italian salami.


Also gorillas are vegan. Most die of heart disease.

Over the last 10 years death from heart disease is down 40. Thank statins and anti smoking adds

[haele]

146. Paternal G-Grandma - 102, Missouri pig farmer's daughter. Died of Pneumonia.

Loved her Saturday Morning Bacon and Eggs, scrapple, chitlins, and sweet-breads. 5'even, 170 lbs, was in the process of sewing a quilt on her old reliable 1907 Singer treadle sewing machine before she got sick and died.
Paternal Grandma - 92, hypertension/depression. 5'2" and 270 lbs since she was in her 40's. Famous for her meat-loafs and lard-based pastries (especially biscuits, pies, and cookies).
Paternal Great-aunt - 98, shingles, New York Socialite and dinner party giver. 5'8, 150 lbs, regular dancer until some drunk broke her ankle when she was 96, didn't look a day over a healthy, active 65. Developed type II diabetes when she was around 90.
Paternal males - 2 auto accidents(35 and 78), 1 lung cancer (chain-smoker) (62), and stroke (my father - 77) that was caused by medication for a weird fungal infection of the blood he apparently picked up when he was stationed overseas.
All others in my father's generation are still alive.

Maternal Grandfather - 99 (old age). 6'3", 160 lbs or so. Scandinavian born in Lancaster Co. (PA) who loved to cook traditional foods - lots of meat and lard. 2nd oldest of eight, most of his siblings were still alive when he passed.
Maternal Grandmother - 39 (ovarian cancer). Worked as an aircraft painter during WWII and developed the cancer over the 1950's afterwards. Don't know about her family history.
My mother and everyone else in her generation are currently in their 70's and are active and certainly not vegan.

The most common thread in all their diets was that for the most part, they ate in moderation. Meat may have been served a lot, but it was not in large quantities; usually no more than 2 - 4 oz a day. There were left-overs when they cooked, and while they didn't believe in throwing food away (depression era shock), they also believed that going back for seconds if you were still hungry was far more preferable than leaving food on the plate. Oh yes, most of them did eat some form of veggies at every meal, and there was always a leafy greens salad at most dinners on both sides of the family.

Of course, this is a history of my family, their general dietary habits, and the genetic metabolism and associated lifespan they have left me. It's not a snark attack against vegans or vegetarians in general.
I know everyone is different, and for some people, a vegan diet is best - or perhaps it would be more optimal for their health to go a modified vegetarian, paleo, or South-Beach style diet than straight-up vegan or high fat/protein and no carbs.
And while I don't get upset or offended if someone suggests some form of dietary regime that may work better health-wise for my more sedentary type of work and life, I tend to be very skeptical when someone who isn't my doctor, but maybe knows about a lot of tests that other people did, tries to guilt me or preach at me about how they think I should eat.

I've always felt that diet ultimately is something between a person, their doctor, and their nutritionist who is working with them. Oh, and the resources and budget available to them. A lot of times, there is nothing but processed crap available to fix, serve or eat.

Haele

[FLPanhandle]

9. Good for you.

I'm ten years older and in excellent health, run marathons and participate in triathlons. I'm ready to compare my health with any 50+ year old vegan.

I love lots of things that may not be great for me...steaks, wine, chocolate but I'll never give them up. They provide me pleasure and in moderation help make life that much better.

[Skittles]

105. THANK YOU

I too have stellar numbers and eat anything I want - I cannot imagine life eating such a restricted diet - besides feeling like a pain in the ass it would make me MISERABLE

[Luminous Animal]

123. Really? Restricted diet? Most of the meat eaters I know, and I live in a foodie town, eat far less

variety than I. And how would stope eating meat make you feel like a pain in the ass?

[Skittles]

168. restricted as in denying yourself entire food groups

and I detest the superiority complex of those who tell me I cannot POSSIBLY be healthy if I don't restrict myself like they do

[leftynyc]

11. Good for you

Both my grandmas ate meat every single day - both lived full and healthy lives until they died at 92.

[Veganhealedme]

36. Not many meat eaters live that long..

vegans only make up about 1.5% of the population yet have a much higher chance of living to an old age.

How many meat eaters live to 90? A TINY PERCENTAGE.

[tammywammy]

48. Tiny percentage? Link please. n/t

[zappaman]

51. Do you have a link to support that assertion? n/t

[tabbycat31]

60. My grandfather just turned 90

And he is not and never will be a vegan. He's a meat and potatoes type guy.

Not everyone wants to live until 90 either but that's a thread for another day.

[backwoodsbob]

75. link please nt

[Marrah_G]

111. I think you need to back that up with facts.

I know a number of omnivorces that lived to 90. My parents are 80 and in amazing health.

[leftynyc]

150. Let's see

One of the grandpas who also ate meat every day also lived to 91. The other one lived to 80 and he smoked two packs of cigarettes every day. I only knew one great grandma (was lucky enough to have her until I was in my early 20s) and she made it to 93 - made a mean brisket. I wouldn't mind seeing some studies to back up your "tiny percentage" claim. I have no problem with vegans - do what the fuck you want - but don't lie about meateaters. Humans are omnivores and frankly the vegetarians I know are always sick - get colds and viruses constantly.

[tridim]

165. Lots and lots of BS data coming from you.

Can you back up anything?

Woo alert.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

83. My carnivorous dad lived to be 92.

My carnivorous grandmother lived to be 98. Her father had bacon and eggs for breakfast every morning most of his adult life and lived to be 90. Longevity is strongly related to heredity; high blood pressure and high cholesterol have a lot to do with the body you are born with. If a vegan diet makes an individual feel better or lose weight, that's great, but what how long they will actually live isn't determined entirely by diet. There are a lot of very old people out there who have been eating meat, butter and eggs all their lives.

[leftynyc]

151. Agree

Genetics are FAR more important. I also think eating foods without preservatives is very, very important. I was recently with a very good friend (friends for over 30 years) who is a vegetarian and we went to a friend's barbeque. She merely ate all the side dishes with some salad and has no desire to be militant about it. She has some digestive issues and feels better when she doesn't eat meat. Good for her but I'll stick with my carnivore ways.

[Liberal_in_LA]

12. k&r

[NightWatcher]

13. Great for you. I do experiment with foods to find which ones trigger my inflamation

I try to stay clear of red meat most of the time because it does seem to trigger it (except for bison, which seems pretty good)

I have rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, myositis, and some other stuff. I'm tired of people telling me to go pure Paleo, but I do try to eat less of what will cause me to flare up. They say I should avoid sugars, but to do that all the time is HARD.

My blood pressure and other labs do look better. My Doc said "if it weren't for your....., you'd be in pretty good shape". I laughed picked up my walking cane and shuffled out the door.

(You might want to try to tone down the 'preachy' thing just a tad)

[Veganhealedme]

41. Bison is mostly free range and nearly fat-free..

in the context of meat, bison isn't bad.

You're right about inflammatory factors from most red meat.

Some great inflammation busters..
Raw organic ginger root
Turmeric
Cinnamon(the real stuff)
Cayenne(organic, get the really hot stuff, 90000btu+)
Maca root powder
Fulvic acid(add several drops to water and drink it)
ionic liquid minerals(again put a few drops in almost anything you drink, remineralization fights inflammation)
Any leafy green that is high in green chlorophyl
any high anti-oxidant food(fresh organic fruits, berries, leafies, vegs)
liposomal Vitamin C, 1000mg per dose

just a few suggestions..

[freshwest]

144. A few years ago, I went from SAD to lacto veg, but jumped from veg to raw. I never felt better, but

developed some severe health problems. Probably too much enthusiasm.

I do not like vegan food that mimics meat, dairy, etc. When some vegs tell me they want the taste or texture of meat, etc., and come up with all these complex, processed things to eat, I figure they should stop romancing the meat and get it over with. But I say nothing, it's not my place.

I had severe deficiencies that caused kidney and hair problems. But all else seemed fine - but really, it wasn't fine. A number of things happened all at once, not all about diet, and I went back to SAD.

Now I am transitioning off of it, but it's very hard. I also have no support on this issue and am less well than I was when I started. So I will not be as severe in whatever I do.

I don't want to be a lacto veg either, it doesn't agree with me, but I am using a lot of fermented diary right now for probiotics. I just hate the stickiness of dairy in my system.

As far as anyone at any time changing their diet, it's hard. There is a lot of emotional and social memories associated with food. I never tell anyone what to eat, 'preach,' or whatever. Because it's like insulting their family, their lifestyle, etc.

I am going to go back to my detox regiment, which is slightly different than what you suggest in this post here, which I have saved for ideas.

I used raw ginger, raw garlic, grapefruit and red onions, all juiced. It definitely will make one's eyes water when juicing. It is an acquired taste, after a while it's no big deal. It hits the mouth which says 'what are you doing' the first few times, but settles in the stomach very well.

It has to be portioned out because if one takes too much it has too strong a reaction.

For a long time smoothies were breakfast, with pea protein, fruit, vegetables, kelp, kefir, flax seed, whatever. Very satisfying.

Then I went to having nothing but that with homemade almond milk and not kefir and fresh organic apples for breakfast. That was followed by spring greens almost all day long, or at times grated carrots and raisins with kefir, then lemon juice. At times, I'd add in ssliced avocado and fresh lemon juice on the greens. They were satisfying.

Once one's palate is 'cleaned' food tastes better and the body metabolizes well. I drank the aminos produced by soaking chia seeds, raw carrot juice and ate a lot of sprouts and raw almonds. All of this was very energizing. The smell of cooked food after a while made me nauseous and the texture was like cardboard and it seemed tasteless.

In the evenings, dinner was for a time, a free range scrambled egg, then I left that out, and had a very satisfying bowl of brown rice and kidney beans with Indian spices. And lots of spring water all day long.

I didn't take any vitamins at all, which was probably a big mistake. Instead of coffee I had herbal tea, usually without any sweetener, sometimes a bit of raw honey.

I am going to get as far down that road as I can, but not get extreme. I'm not too positive about this, but something has to change with me.

So I know you will catch some flak and you will have some support and some criticism. I have a friend who grew up in the mountains in Mexico just south of the Equator. All the people in his family and village lived to be a hundred or close to it. He told me one time:

We are the architects of our bodies.

That stuck with me for a long time, remembering that we are not helpless.

Every so often I read this quote as well:

Every person has free choice. Free to obey or disobey the Natural Laws. Your choice determines the consequences. Nobody ever did, or ever will, escape the consequences of his choices.

~ Alfred A. Montapert

I go on the side of a person choosing what they will do with their body if they harm no one else by their practices. I do believe in medicine and science, but there are doctors and nutritionists who know the value of fruit, vegetables, salads and avoiding empty foods.

However, I will note that the doctors tell me from my quarterly labs that my diabetes is well under control without any RX, and for a moment I thought that meant I was cured.

I am not they explained. Once your body has gone that path, it appears to me, that one's cells are mutated and one can never say they are cured from Type 2. Only controlled, and always dangerous. People are very complex, every body is also different. So I let [people be and respect them for what they choose to do. It's their choice, after all, and we all have to live with our choices.

[tridim]

166. Are you really claiming that animal fat causes inflammation?

Wow, you're lost.

[closeupready]

14. Vegan makes me anemic, tired, and moody.

I've tried it, and can't do it for long.

[ileus]

15. 44yrs here and perfect labs every year. Meat is tasty.

Of course 2 of my best friends are Dietitians...oh and being the ability to think is a tremendous advantage.

[SalviaBlue]

16. I'm glad you healed yourself by going vegan.

Like many others, I overcame my diabetes by going super low carb (I eat meat, cheese, eggs, full fat dairy, nuts/seeds, low carb vegetables).

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[whatthehey]

18. exhibit A for an earlier thread methinks....

[mainer]

20. New book: Americans cut out fat from their diets.... and got fat because of it.

It turns out meat, cheese and eggs keep you skinny and healthy.

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-butter-healthy-ebook/dp/B00A25FDUA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412803009&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+fat+surprise

[Veganhealedme]

23. I eat plenty of fat in my vegan diet..

nuts, seeds, avacado, raw organic coconut oil(50% of cocnut oil fat is super-healthy lauric acid), raw organic olive oil to name a few.

All of these raw fats are very healthy and essential for human health.

These foods are very high in omega-3, 6, 9.

They're also high in heart healthy monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Again, these are heart healthy fats.

[freshwest]

148. Wasn't the problem that they substituted carbs and sugars, though?

[mainer]

162. Right. But as book states, meat and fat are satisfying

And without it, constant hunger drives people to overeat carbs.

[freshwest]

167. Right. There has to be something to end that hunger, I've noticed it's a process

[The_Commonist]

22. And this is why "people hate vegans."

OP from this morning:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025636730

And the article the OP was discussing:

http://veganchowhound.com/rants/people-hate-vegans-freud-could-explain-why/

FWIW - 2 of the unhealthiest people I know are militant vegans. They are unhealthy because THEY DON'T DO IT RIGHT! And of course, I've also known many unhealthy meat eaters, because THEY DON'T DO IT RIGHT!

I myself am a "balanceatarian" and am perfectly happy with a vegan meal or a fat, juicy steak. I am 51 and look and feel 36, which someone just last night guessed as my age. I can put many people even younger than that to shame with my energy.

Everybody is different. And that's pretty much the only thing that matters.

[Veganhealedme]

45. Glad to be hated..

by those who contribute to global warming because you can't say no to killing an animal for your next meal. Do you know how much methane greenhouse gas that livestock belch into the air?

Methane is 30x more powerful a greenhouse gas than co2.

Our meat addiction is on par with the automobile as far as causing global warming.

I like to call my vegan diet, "Guilt Free Eating." Almost everything I eat now is locally produced.

[Marrah_G]

49. Is there some reason you are behaving so rudely?

[Veganhealedme]

55. Who brought up the hateful comment first? Me or the person I replied to?

Why aren't you asking that person the same question?

[Marrah_G]

65. Your entire post was picking a fight from the very beginning.

You have continued throughout the thread.

[yeoman6987]

57. I am going to Outback tonight and can't wait

Those steaks were made already so I don't contribute to Global Warming at all. Belching cause the most global warming? I think that has to take the cake!

[still_one]

26. Misleading headline. Implies being vegan causes issues

[nationalize the fed]

28. Here's what a 70+ yr old Vegan looks like

https://twitter.com/mimikirk

Ever meet a 70 year old woman that looks like that?

Veggie protein is better for Humans but most people have been brainwashed so long it's impossible to get the facts across

Some veggie foods (like Lightlife) are indistinguishable from that which they are mimicking and in blind taste tests few can tell a difference. Sadly, many will continue to kill animals because that's the way it has been.

[Veganhealedme]

29. Your snarky FACTS are clouding the debate!

Great reply btw!

Thanks for posting.

Couldn't agree more with your comments as well.

[nationalize the fed]

143. Here's what a self described Vegan hater looks like at 47

Gordon Ramsey, Born 8 November 1966
"I've always sort of knocked vegetarians and vegans for missing out on the most amazing flavour you can get from meat." source

[zappaman]

32. Here's what a 74 year old meat eater looks like

[DontTreadOnMe]

33. wow.. grandma is looking good!

***wink***

[Uben]

40. Note to self: Eat more meat!

Ha ha! I eat my share of meat already. Though mostly chicken and fish, I do allow myself one hamburger and one steak a week. I'm 60, and just did my annual bloodwork and exam. The doc said I am in great shape, all bloodwork was excellent. I know I'm not the norm....just lucky I guess, but I do work at staying fit and attempt to regulate caloric intake in accordance with the caloric output. If I do a hard days work in the yard, I eat more. If it s one of those light duty weeks, I eat less. Most days I eat one meal and maybe a snack of peanuts or maybe even a sandwich. Works for me, and that's whats important. Metabolisms can vary greatly.

[Veganhealedme]

50. Question, are you on any medications? nt

[Uben]

113. Just one

I do take a 20 mg dose of Pravachol (statin) for cholesterol. Doc wanted me to take it because my LDL was a little high. Started me out on a 40 mg and now its down to a 20mg, which is basically a childs dosage. Duh! I was eating much more beef and fried foods then. My wife fried everything! Since she passed in 2012, I eat much less, practically no fried foods, and just one meal a day. I always have a glass of ice water by my side and drink about a gallon and a half a day. Quit drinking sodas about ten years ago. Cant stand em now. No alcohol either.

Admittedly, I still have room for improvement, but I have been doing so well for so long now, I'm happy to maintain where I'm at. I am 6' tall and weighed in at 172 this morning. At one time, I was right at 200 for several years. That was before the statin...and the effort, and before the wife passed. For an old country boy who used to eat red meat at almost every meal, fried foods, junk food, you name it, I have come a long way.

I certainly don't have anything against the vegan lifestyle, but it has its flaws, too, I have read. I like veggies, and I cook the majority of my meals at home, myself. Broccoli is my fav, several times a week, corn on the cob, green beans, fresh spinach salads with a light shot of vinegar and oil.

Living rurally keeps me away from the junk food joints. Once I got away from the old habits, it wasn't to hard to do. Being retired to. I grill the occasional burger (90% lean) and steak (tenderloin, I cut my own and trim away the fat).

I know its not perfect, but considering where I was at for very many years, I am content with where I am at. As long as my numbers stay in the preferred range. I would like to stop taking the statin altogether, but not enough to give up meat altogether.

[malokvale77]

90. How much plastic surgery went into that> (nt)

[RebelOne]

181. Yes, my question also. n/t

[Dont call me Shirley]

97. That's after a few facelifts

[Luminous Animal]

124. Difference being, one has had extensive plastic surgery, the other has not.

[GoCubsGo]

171. I'm sure genetics are involved, too.

Youthful looks tend to run in the family. So does exposure to UV rays. People who spend lots of time in tanning beds or sun bathing tend to be more wrinkled than those who don't, or who have been lathering on the sun screen all their lives.

[phil89]

39. That's not a very large sample size

though is it? Not convincing or responsible to imply that will be the result for everyone.

[Veganhealedme]

66. Vegans make up about 1.5% of the population..

so by nature everything vegan related is going to be from a small sample size.

However, vegan is also become one of the fastest growing ways to eat because people are learning the truth about the detriments of a meat based diet.

Or they're getting a diagnosis that they need a triple bypass, and that wakes them up.

[Ecumenist]

161. Yes, as a matter of fact, this woman looks positively ancient compared to my

great grandmother who at 90 looked like she was about 40 years old and she was definitely NOT a vegan, though she ate alot of veggies. I am 50 and most people think I am in my early 30's. Guess what? NOT a vegan.

[haele]

173. Yup, my Mom - except for the salon and spa treatments the above lady obviously gets. Genetics.

She's 75 and looks to be in her mid-40's, if not for her salt and pepper (and unfortunately thinning) hair. Oh, and her crooked teeth sort of mess up the symmetry of chin and mouth in comparison to Ms. Kirk's well-taken-care-of face, but she still doesn't look "old" - just not as celebrity-attractive.
Mom does regular gardening, works out at the gym on base (spouse of a military retiree) four times a week, eats whatever she wants in moderation, and walks pretty much everywhere because she never learned to drive and sold the Highlander when Dad passed on unexpectedly.

It's genetics. I'm 55, overweight (gained 50 lbs from a worker's comp injury which leaves me partially disabled, and my dad's genes came from the pear people who do not lose weight...), and have only recently been assumed to be in my early 40's - because I'm fat and my hair is starting to silver. Before I gained the weight five years ago and my hair was dark, most people thought I was around 35.

Actually, my husband's 46 year old ex "V" (a typical german heritage blonde who smokes) looks about 15 years older than my Mom does - and got really-really pissed when my step-daughter posted a recent picture of her and my mom in honor of mom's 75th birthday on Face-book - right next to the picture of "V" when she came out to visit a year ago for the baby's birthday.

It's all genentics. Not all of us are blessed with Sofia Loren's genes and can look terrific at 70/80 years old with only a club membership, good moisturizer, hairdresser, and make-up assistant.

Haele.

[sabbat hunter]

35. my great grandfather

ate all his meals at a dairy only kosher restaurant (so lots of cheeses, eggs involved), smoked 5-6 cigars a day and lived until he was in to his 90's.

If there was a meat kosher restaurant in his area that met his standards he would have eaten there too.

A lot of it is all about genetics.

[Brickbat]

38. It's not for everyone. I have a friend who was made sick and weak by veganism.

He tried it for a long, long time. Finally, on the recommendation of his doctor, he started eating fish, meat broths, and dairy again, regained the muscle he had lost and then some, and regained his vitality.

[SidDithers]

43. livingwagenow...nt

Sid

[msanthrope]

58. Good work.

http://m.

[SidDithers]

80. And Union Yes before that...

Sid

[freshwest]

149. Hey, I've seen that one. Didn't finish it though.

Had an uncle and some friends who swore by those trolls. One always made a bowl of rice pudding for them that she put out in the barn so they wouldn't eat her cat, or kids, or something. She was a pagan but always went to the cathderal on Christmas Eve with the kids and stuff. Very big on heavy metal and helping disabled people.

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. I'm 53. I eat meat. Lots of it. Feeling fine here. End of story.

[zappaman]

53. I'm 51. I eat meat too.

Had a delicious filet last night here in LA!
Healthy too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

106. Beef short ribs last night. My Wife cooked 'em. Melt in your mouth.

Had the annual group campout last month. I cooked frog legs, alligator, and live crawdads. BIG hit.

[zappaman]

115. That sounds awesome!

I have an In 'n' Out literally down the street from me.
Not sure if that's awesome or scary...

[cherokeeprogressive]

120. Damn! Closest In & Out is 40 miles from here. Jealous.

I love In & Out even though they have those wicked subliminal messages on their packaging...

[Veganhealedme]

54. Are you on any rx meds?

Just curious, how do your lab #'s look? Cholesterol etc..

[cherokeeprogressive]

102. No meds. Horrendous rotator cuff though; it's getting operated on in November.

Maybe that's because I used to be able to throw a baseball from the goal line through the opposite goal post and a football flat-footed 40-45 yards.

No lab problems. LDL - 126, HDL - 53, Triglycerides - 155.

When I had my blood pressure taken for the MRI last month it was 110/65.

Oh, and I'm an occasional smoker/toker.

[Marrah_G]

47. I support your decision to eat how you choose.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. SINNERS! SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD!

Or angry carrot, as the case may be.

[FSogol]

59. Exactly.

[opiate69]

63. Let the rabbits wear glasses!

And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber.
And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself.
And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest.
And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil.
One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear.
And terror possesed me then.
And I begged,
"Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?"
And the angel said unto me,
"These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!
You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust."
And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared,
"Hear me now, I have seen the light!
They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul!
Damn you!
Let the rabbits wear glasses!
Save our brothers!"
Can I get an amen?
Can I get a hallelujah?
Thank you Jesus.
Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........

This is necessary.

http://m.

[HuckleB]

81. +1

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. Heh. +1 n/t

[Peacetrain]

64. Well just stand back.. I have a vegan story and it will get some peoples goat

It works.

I am actually a pescatarian .. but eat no other animal product..but do eat cold water fish 2 times a week.. no butter, eggs, cheese, meat, cottage cheese, ice cream. etc etc etc..

This started not out of a philosophical point of view.. but because of highly elevated cholesterol and I cannot take statins

Over the course of three years, I lost 80 pounds and all my numbers are normal.. and my glucose is 85.. It took 2 years to get my numbers there, but I had no choice.. I had to stick to this.

In the course of that time..you learn to cook a different way, and the foods you once craved.. you no longer crave.. it is an interesting phenom.

It is a very healthy life style.. and works for many of us.. If you eat anything in moderation, I think you will be just fine.

That is the issue..moderation.. most of us have lots of problems with that.. for me it was cheese.. that was the tough thing to let go of..

You can absolutely control early onset diabetes with veganism. Especially if you watch your carbs.. and eat complex whole grains..

And as long as you keep checking your numbers and your Doctor is staying on top of where you are all I can say is

Excellent Veganhealedme.. I am happy this worked for you also

[rurallib]

70. Well, old friend, we are in the process of going vegan

I say "going" because we have been at it for four months. I can't say we are tempted by meat or dairy as yet. As a matter of fact every day is a kind of adventure in food. Personally if I have a good vegetarian marinara or picante sauce I can eat about anything.

My wife has been type 2 diabetes for probably 15 years. Two and a half months into it she had her usual tests and her numbers just knocked the doctors socks off. All numbers in the ok range for the first time in a long long time. I finally had a blood workup for the first time in - well can't remember when at @ 3 months in. All my numbers were fine which shocked the NP. My blood pressure is in range, but with medication so far. When I started it was way out.

Frankly I don't care what anybody eats. Please just don't try to push your preferences on me. This works for us - leave us alone.

We went to a party in late July and immediately some folks asked "What are you doing?" We told them and immediately we heard the counter "you need meat protein" three or 4 times.

Had some interesting side effects. I used to have terrible, terrible (4 Claritin a day) allergies. They are pretty much gone. Our skin now has a glow to it. And the weight loss has been a real plus.

So whatever works for you is wonderful.

If someone wants to sell me on meat and dairy I ain't buying no more.

We were persuaded by our kids showing us "Forks Over Knives" if anyone cares.

[chervilant]

87. That was a good one for me, too.

I've learned to cook some amazing Vegan dishes. Love feeling so healthy!

[Peacetrain]

121. Its a real process that is for sure

John and I said we could do anything for 8 weeks.. when it was obvious that I had tried every statin and I was having very bad reactions.. I just could not take them.. Well we thought.. we can give this an 8 week try.. after the first week I realized I had to get in and work on recipes that we liked because otherwise we would never be able to stick to it.. I did most of the work of reworking our favorite recipes and finding things that worked for us..

My lentil/bulger wheat chili is to die for.. found it in a magazine

Good luck to you guys.. it really is doable.. and can be quite tasty..

Check you email.. recipes headed your way.. I would love your marinara

PS.. I know what you mean about the skin.. People make comments all the time about John and I and how great our skin looks..

[zappaman]

68. Wow...the things one can learn at the library! n/t

[Rex]

76. Oh no u did nt!

[lumberjack_jeff]

91. .

[SidDithers]

96. It's not LG...

See upthread.

Sid

[MohRokTah]

71. I hope you take Zinc ssupplements. eom

[Veganhealedme]

84. I eat pumkin seeds, high in zinc..

I eat chlorella, an algea superfood, high in zinc, that comes in pill form for easy swallowing or powder form which tastes great on a fresh green salad.

Chlorella is arguably the single healthiest food there is.

My nutritional intake is off the charts. Really the only supplements i take, occasional vitamin D in winter months.

I take high dose, liposomal vitamin C, 1000mg per dose. Daily.
I highly recommend that everyone give this stuff a try. Super detoxifying.

[MohRokTah]

85. No thanks.

Enjoy what you eat, I know I enjoy what I eat.

[HockeyMom]

77. I haven't liked the taste of meat since I was a child

60+ years. Nothing to do with natural or philosophy. Just don't like it. Growing up my parents were always trying to get me to eat meat, and also cookies and cake. All I wanted for snacks was raw veggies. I was also a very skinny little girl. Yeah, by standards a half century ago, I was a "weird" kid. Bugs Bunny was my nickname as a kid and it wasn't because of my teeth.

In my 20s I decided that I would become a Vegetarian. I had no know idea what I was doing health wise for substitutions and ended up in the hospital severely anemic and weighing 85 lbs. They thought I was anorexic or bulimic even back in the late 60s. The doctor said to me that I would kill myself if I kept this up.

I learned over decades to listen to what my body tells me. I am still not particularly fond of meat, especially beef. I learned to cook and DISGUISE the taste of meat with a lot of veggies and sauce. I eat at least one or two meatless dinner a week with beans and dark green veggies, BUT if I get a craving for steak(normally a big yuck) or a Big Mac every once in a while, I know to listen to that. I know it probably means that I need the protein, and calories, from that. Is that bad? Well, for me it certainly hasn't been.

[Luminous Animal]

125. I'm 55 and, similarly, I never liked the taste of meat, so when I went vegetarian, I learned what I

needed to learn health wise. Fortunately, I had a vegetarian aunt to guide me. I've no cravings and the smell of meat cooking is more repellent than the smell of it cooked, but I do make a point of eating a complex diet every day.

[Arugula Latte]

177. There is a point where, when meat is cooking, and the fat is being rendered off it, that it makes

me feel nauseous to smell it. I do eat poultry, but I practically have to leave the house when the Thanksgiving turkey is at that point.

[Arugula Latte]

176. Me too. I never liked meat (well, red meat).

Even when I was expected to eat meat as a child, I remember choking down porkchops and pot roast and the like. It tasted like blood and death to me. The worst thing I ever tasted was lamb. I couldn't believe the horrible "off" taste. Pork was greasy and disgusting. I sometimes liked steak, but I think that was because my mom would put a lot of delicious black pepper on it, and I liked the taste of A-1 steak sauce.

I stopped eating red meat three decades ago when I was a teen. Haven't looked back, and have been a very healthy person, knock wood.

[mainer]

78. Eat what you want to. No one else cares.

Really, NO ONE CARES.

Just don't tell the rest of us how to eat.

[Veganhealedme]

86. My view, a nation that eats meat has unaffordable healthcare..

and many life-shortening woes that make our healthcare unaffordable.

Veganism is a progressive solution.

[demwing]

95. lol...meat eaters get a little defensive on DU

not all, but many.

Im a meat eater, but limit myself to fish and fowl. I know its bad for me, and for the environment, but I'm weak. What can I say?

[hobbit709]

98. One time I had a grazer criticize my purchases at the grocery checkout.

told me it wasn't healthy.
I told him I had a health tip for him.
He said "What?"
I said "You'll live a lot longer if you keep your nose out of other people's business"

[malokvale77]

101. I knew you would get flamed for this...

but mostly I agree with you. I've been semi-vegetarian for about 25 years. I still eat eggs, dairy and fish. I do occasionally eat other meat so as to not upset the host or hostess.

I'm into my 60's and in excellent health, on no meds. I enjoy beer, wine, natural tobacco and a little bud. It seems to be a good balance that agrees with me.

I do grow my own organic vegetables.

[LiberalElite]

107. Welcome to DU!

Signed,
Vegetarian for 28 years, eat like a vegan now & then...

[99Forever]

112. I fail to understand what it is that makes you..

... so freakin' confrontational about what amounts to just another life choice. Eat whatever you please, frankly I don't give a damn.

Crap like this post, answer the question that other waste of space OP asked.

"Why do people hate vegans."

Back to my T-bone steak, fresh off the the grill, medium rare. Delicious.

[Codeine]

114. I'm a 44 year old vegan.

I've been vegan for over a quarter century. During that time I've learned that the best thing about being a vegan is that you don't have to be a nasty, judgemental douchebag to be part of the club.

Just a bit of friendly advice from one "grazer" to another.

[bunnies]

118. Youre wasting your time bringing this here...

as youve probably already noticed. I dont even need to read the replies to guarantee youve been called "holier than thou", "condescending", and heard "I eat meat and Im fine". And now there will probably be a hundred threads about how much vegans suck. Its not worth the effort on any level.

The factory farming / environmental / animal cruelty routes dont work either. Oh, and whatever you do... dont mention PETA. Welcome to DU.

[Skittles]

170. uh huh

because assuming anyone who doesn't eat like you HAS to be unhealthy and on meds will pomote A great discussion

[Dont call me Shirley]

119. Good on you Vegan. I have been trying to go vegan, old habits are dying hard here.

You have done an excellent job staying on facts and not caving in to the vitriol.

[Generic Brad]

122. How nice for you

Glad you have regained your health.

[aikoaiko]

126. Would you tell me what you eat during a typical week?

I tried to go vegetarian 20 years ago and failed miserably.

Now I'm overweight and diabetic.

Is the trick to learn to love to hate everything you eat for the sake of good health?

[BrotherIvan]

128. Vegan is very high carbs which leads to blood sugar spikes.

False sanctimony aside, check out marksdailyapple.com to read about a VERY doable pleasurable way to eat that perfectly controls your blood sugar. If you are male, you will see results very quickly.

[ErikJ]

127. Vegetarians longest lived in US.

Loma Linda CA where everybody is 7th Day Adventist vegetarian has more centennarians per capita than anywhere in world.

[mainer]

163. How do you know it's because they don't smoke or drink?

7th day Adventists avoid a number of known unhealthy habits. I suspect it's the avoidance of tobacco that's more likely to give them longer lives.

[ErikJ]

172. Right.

You'd have to factor out those variables to get a true conclusion. Good catch. I dont have time to google the research right now.

[Danmel]

129. I have a co worker who is a fanatic vegan

A vegangelical. She is half my age and is quite overweight. I eat meat and fish and cheese and eggs and butter and weigh 105 pounds. I eat everything, just not a lot of everything. And my blood pressure and cholesterol are great.

[Barack_America]

134. Actually, there is one...peripheral neuropathy...

...secondary to vitamin B 12 deficiency.

That's all I'm aware of though (MD, vegetarian for decades).

[Marrah_G]

147. I have that...in all my extremities

I had a very bad reaction to Cipro and was left with a lot of damage to my nerves.

[Dirty Socialist]

139. I Eat Chicken

FREE RANGE chicken.
To each his own I guess. However, perhaps I will cut back on meat consumption.

[Blue_In_AK]

141. When I have tried vegan or vegetarian diets,

I always gain an inordinate amount of weight and feel really crappy ... And that's with following so-called meal plans, like McDougall. I don't think one diet is right for everyone. I feel best on high protein, low carb.

[JEFF9K]

142. Our town's leading TV weatherman is a vegan.

He's going strong at 83!

[Marr]

153. Vegans are deficient in several important nutrients, including Creatine and B12.

They also have lower testosterone than non-vegans.

Also, despite what vegans often claim, there are no controlled studies showing that a vegan diet is any more healthy than a non-vegan diet.

[Inkfreak]

154. "Wanna compare the health of a vegan to that of a meat eater? "

Sure. And then I'll meet ya at the gym for one of my daily lift routines & cardio.

I am eat paleo, myself. Lots of raw veggies. Lots. But I lift heavy and am a big guy at 6"4' 220lbs. I want/need lots of protein, so ill eat meats to build and maintain. I think comparisons of diets is silly.

[Oktober]

155. This is such a preachy stereotype, I feel like I'm being trolled...

[kdmorris]

158. As the first response said... sample of one

Eating healthy "healed" your Diabetes.

I am not a vegan. I'm not a vegetarian. I eat meat and dairy and complex carbs and a wide variety of foods. I do not drink juice or soda and what bread I do eat is whole grain. Every meal is a combination of a complex carb and a protein (Steel Cut Oats, 2 eggs and 1 oz of cheese for breakfast, for example)

So, as a counterpoint to your sample of one... NOT eating Vegan "healed" my Diabetes. I'm 45 years old, my last HbA1c was 5.6, my cholesterol is 167 and I exercise as close to every day as possible. And I enjoy a wide variety of foods, including meat, which is an excellent source of protein.

[mucifer]

159. I'm quoting the author Isaac Bashevis Singer

“I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens.”

I think if he was alive today Singer would be a vegan. Factory farming is so much worse than when he was alive. He is my mentor on the subject and I'm vegan.

We all make choices and we all can discuss them.

[RedCappedBandit]

160. Well this is nonsense.

Vegans can be healthy, or not.

Meat eaters can be healthy, or not.

[Skittles]

169. the OP thinks only vegan means no meds

it is nonsense

[shenmue]

183. Shhh, stop being sensible

That is not allowed on this board!

[bigwillq]

180. Look, eat what you want. But some of your claims in this thread are BS.

I am happy that you seem to be doing so well health-wise.

But there's millions of meat eaters that have lived a long time.
Some of your claims above are just not true.

[GoneOffShore]

185. Thank you.

For pointing the finger at the nonsense.

[AnalystInParadise]

186. Everyone is different

I practice Strict Paleo and eat no vegetables minus sweet potatoes, spinach, kale, and carrots.

For the record: I had bad eating habits from the Army. I was over 200 pounds 5 years ago (only 5'7) and my cholesterol and blood sugar levels were both bad. I was pre-diabetic and had whacked out LDL's. I initially switched to a high vegetable/low meat diet, I got sick within two weeks. I had a list of symptoms that I did not have previously. I was weak, dizzy, vomiting all the time and worst of all after three months my weight was 215 and my blood sugar and my cholesterol was no better, it wasn't worse but it was no better.

I ran into a friend of mine from the Army and she looked amazing. She used to be overweight and often in and out of Army sick call. Now she was lean, toned and looked like she could kill with her bare hands. I asked her what her exercise secret was. She said, no exercise secret, I eat Paleo. I asked her what it was, she told me and I reluctantly decided to give it a shot. Well needless to say it has done miracles for me.

I now eat meat every meal of the day. I usually have eggs, bacon, sausage and black coffee for breakfast. Lunch is usually some kind of chicken, some tuna stuffed avocados, and maybe a small kale and spinach salad and for dinner I eat red meat 5-6 nights a week. My exercise is the same level as before I switched to Paleo.

Here are my results:

AIP 2011: 5'7 213 pounds Cholesterol of 250 Blood Sugar of 99 (Vegetable heavy/ low meat/low fat diet)
AIP2014: 5'7 165 pounds Cholesterol of 158 Blood Sugar of 73 (Meat heavy, Fat heavy, little to no vegetables)

My doctor did a Complete blood count on me in July for my last physical, my readings are immaculate, dead center of optimal for each and every reading and I am now 42 years old. He asked me what my secret was, I told him Paleo. It is a miracle for me....

I weigh less now than when I was a 23 year old in the Army and I am stronger, faster and I look better. Paleo saved my health. Everyone is different. I am glad Vegan works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone. More importantly, I found out that there are more meats and fats out there than I ever imagined. I eat beef, liver, pork, chicken, duck, buffalo, rabbit, deer, I cook in duck fat, coconut oil, lard, I have never been happier, and I still get to eat steak.