It's time to prevent public travel from western africa and those originating from there.

[boston bean]

I'm sure I'm not a racist, so save those snide allegations for someone else, please. I am a realist. And the only way to keep it from spreading here is to do everything that can be done to prevent it from coming here, or the US receiving more people infected with Ebola. Which allows it to spread and put more at risk.

eta by originating, I mean those who live or have been in ebola hot spots.

[sharp_stick]

1. How do you plan to enforce this?

The FAA doesn't have authority over the airlines or airspace decisions by countries other than the United States.

[Skittles]

75. OMG republicans now want the federal government involved

who would have thunk it?

[JimDandy]

94. LOL. Nice gotcha.

Aww... Alan Prince has been deposed.

[sharp_stick]

113. Awww I missed him

I hate it when I don't get a chance to play with the trolls.

[Skittles]

124. just another fucking moron

they DETEST the federal government until it is something that AFFECTS THEM, then they're all on board for BIG GOVERNMENT....without paying any taxes, of course - HYPOCRITES!!!

[meadowlark5]

128. Exactly

Ebola shows up and suddenly all the agencies and departments along with the CDC are supposed to be able to jump into action after their budgets have been slashed year after year by the republicans.

Same with FEMA. They hate FEMA but as soon as it floods or there's a hurricaine or tornado, they're all bitching that FEMA isn't acting fast enough to rebuild their homes of towns. Where the hell is all this money supposed to come from to do that when budgets keep getting cut for agencies like these so the revenue can be appropriated to tax cuts for the wealthy, subsidies for oil companies and wars?

It's infuriating the stupidity.

[Skittles]

134. ebola could have been contained more quickly in Africa were it not for those slashed budgets

fucking conservtives, they've always made us sick but now it can happen in the LITERAL sense

[Warren DeMontague]

146. True. And it also could have been contained if people had treated it as serious as a heart attack,

from the get-go.

Instead they fucked around with it, minimized the risk, etc. like it was no big deal.... and look where we are.

[uppityperson]

89. There are no flights from those 3 countries that land on the USA. If there were, shoot them down?

w.t.f.

[uppityperson]

99. No, there are not direct flights. Show me the links to prove there are.

[JimDandy]

90. From what I have been reading, they are no direct flights to the U.S.

from at least Liberia. It becomes harder to stop citizens from Liberia getting into the U.S. due to that fact.

[Warren DeMontague]

140. How much do we pay customs officials to make sure that no one comes into the US with a bag of pot?

You mean checking peoples' visas to see where they're coming from is some sort of insurmountable logistical challenge?

[msanthrope]

2. I think it's time for the plastic sheeting and duct tape!!!

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!


http://m.

[greatauntoftriplets]

3. Duck and cover!

[msanthrope]

6. I'm telling ya'....everyone's watched too many zombie movies. nt

[Control-Z]

38. Everyone knows that doesn't work

unless it's done under little wooden desks. Geesh.

[greatauntoftriplets]

40. They always took us into the hall, away from all the windows.

Guess it's good that no bombs ever hit my school then!

[FSogol]

5. I could post my Game Over Man, Game Over, video 10 times a day. n/t

[msanthrope]

10. And some stock footage of the citizens of Tokyo fleeing Godzilla....nt

[Go Vols]

11. +1

Glad I have some left from 2001.

:/

[msanthrope]

14. Is your anthrax vaccine current? nt

[FSogol]

4. West African Countries like Brussels, Dallas, and Spain?

[Warren DeMontague]

141. One guy flying into Nigeria infected upwards of 20 more before they got a handle on it.

Do you suppose Nigeria still allows recreational travel from Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea since then?

[uppityperson]

7. Nope. The only way is to sen lots of money, people, resources to deal with the outbreak so it

will not spread further. Rather than trying to block a continent or even country, send what is needed to help those afflicted so fewer will be exposed, infected, contagious, die. For us individually? Contact your representatives, local, stste, federal, to insist more help is provided. Donate to a reputable organization like MSF, Doctors Without Borders, who are working on the ground teying to corrall this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. yup.

[jwirr]

30. I agree. The only other thing that might help some is that we the people voluntarily limit travel to

dangerous areas that is not necessary.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. an idea does not have to be racist to be stupid and unfeasible.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. no it pretty much is all three.

The lives of poor third world people are of no importance.

[LawDeeDah]

24. Extremist nonsense attributing that to the OP.

[Warren Stupidity]

32. Yes the op is extremist nonsense.

Do you always speak yoda?

[Warren DeMontague]

142. Yes, because the ONLY way we can help sick people over there is to allow them to vacation here.

Do you think Nigeria is still letting travelers in from Liberia, after the mess Patrick Sawyer caused?

[Warren Stupidity]

148. Nigeria had restrictions. But the suggestion

Of the op was no public travel allowed from all of west Africa. That is a stupid racist idea. It was preceded by support for a complete travel embargo of all of africa.

Increased screening and vigilance is agood idea, but more to the point is direct aid to afflicted countries, to improve their health care infrastructure and their ability to contain this disease. Nigeria is an example of how Ebola can be effectively contained and controlled without acting like idiots.

[Warren DeMontague]

153. Nigeria was a clusterfuck, and they barely got it under control.

It was a perfect example of what can happen from one infected traveler, and how containment gets increasingly complicated the more secondary cases you have to deal with.

Maybe you think 20+ secondary cases is a good ratio for one importation- I don't, nor would I want any of the people I care about to be one of those cases because someone with a visa had to take a vacation in the US.

Nigeria's restrictions are undoubtedly MORE strict, now.

[Warren Stupidity]

154. What Texas can learn from Nigeria when it comes to containing Ebola

...
In the end, contact tracers — trained professionals and volunteers — conducted 18,500 face-to-face visits to assess potential symptoms, according to the CDC, and the list of contacts throughout the country grew to 894. Two months later, Nigeria ended up with a total of 20 confirmed or probable cases and eight deaths.

The CDC also pointed to the robust public health response by Nigerian officials, who have had experience with massive public health crises in the past — namely polio in 2012 and large-scale lead poisoning in 2010.

When someone is on a contact list, that doesn't mean that person has to stay at home for the entire incubation period of 21 days from the last contact with someone who had Ebola. People on contact lists are not under quarantine or in isolation. They can still go to work and go on with their their lives. But they should take their temperature twice a day for 21 days and check in with health workers.

Nigeria did it right. They didn't panic, they got serious and got to work and contained a potential outbreak.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/10/04/what-texas-can-learn-from-nigeria-when-it-comes-to-containing-ebola/

[Warren DeMontague]

155. I will agree that it's a massive relief that it's not out of control now in Lagos or Port Harcourt.

but I think any honest assessment of the situation will reveal that it was a nail-biter, there, for a while.

I'm not suggesting "panic", I'm suggesting that for the time being recreational visa-holders from 3 West African countries not be allowed through customs into the US. It's not "racism", it's simple math. The VAST majority of infected people on the planet, right now, are citizens of one of 3 countries. Presumably to travel to another country, like ours, they would need a passport from their country of origin.

Asking them to postpone their vacations abroad until this is cleared up is not unreasonable, or onerous. As for "stopping flights", I suspect at some point the flights will stop themselves- indeed, for many carriers, they already have, because the front line people; pilots, flight attendants- don't want to deal with it.

Aid can be brought in other means, as can the military- remember the Berlin Airlift?

[PADemD]

144. Actually, the CDC issued a level 3 nonessential travel alert yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025635687

[MohRokTah]

13. Yeah, that'll work.

Actually, the NIH guy that shut down Elisabeth Hasselbeck was responding to the same proposal.

[LawDeeDah]

15. Is Spain in West Africa?

This is not the time to panic.
Getting hit by a bus is more of a concern than ebola. I think what is making people overly frightened are the somtimes false descriptions of what ebola does to a body - like melt your internal organs to mush - which is Not True.

Relax. Here:


I'll have one too:

[Warren Stupidity]

16. No it isn't. But thanks for deciding that millions of people not even near an infected area should

be quarantined so that you can feel less afraid. After all they are almost all poor brown people who's lives are not nearly as important as your paranoia.

[MineralMan]

20. Thanks! Someone needs to point out some things to people.

The fear and panic is palpable around here. Uff da.

[Skittles]

62. THOSE PEOPLE

that gives you away right there

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/10/time-to-build-fence-around-texas.html

[Skittles]

76. LOL

so you're for BIGGER GOVERNMENT!!!

[Skittles]

82. OH but repukes certainly don't want to pay the taxes needed for such "PROTOCOLS"

FUCKING HYPOCRITES

[notadmblnd]

109. I'm surprised there was no outrage here about what the Rude Pundit pposted

I made a facetious comment and one DU-er had conniptions over it. Some people are just overly sensitive when it comes to Texas I guess.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5623979

[Skittles]

125. he's making fun of overreaction

some people don't understand that

[countryjake]

65. See anything wrong with this photo? What is important?

[Skittles]

77. expect to hear some Faux News talking points, countryjake!

it's PC bullshit don'tcha know?

[countryjake]

137. He sure was persistent, shooting down sick people (or jets) for the greater good ...

I have to think that he was trolling DU for sport cause it's hard to swallow that there actually are people out there who think that way. I imagine him holed up in a bunker somewhere, clutching a jug of bleach in one hand and a great big gun in the other, on the lookout for feverish people. Unfortunately, he probably is not and walks around spreading his sick bullshit.

I missed half of his comments before he was PPRed, but he'd already went off the deep end with that "greater good" kerap.

[Skittles]

157. OMG

I actually howled reading this

[notadmblnd]

81. Really? I think republicans should be required to greet all passengers of flights

originating from West Africa with a kiss on the lips, then be quarantined in a for profit prison for the next 30 days.

How's that for some ridiculous bullshit? I don't think it sounds any dumber than your suggestion.

[notadmblnd]

88. Boy, you read into that exactly what you wanted to didn't you?

[uppityperson]

95. There are no direct flights, so how or why ban nonexistent thing?

[smirkymonkey]

98. +1000

I can't believe how illogical people are being in the name of political correctness. I never thought I would say that, but this is ridiculous.

[uppityperson]

111. There are no direct flights so why ban something that does not exist?

Since people flying from the 3 main ebola infected countries have to transfer in another airport before arriving in the USA would you then ban all flights from all those airports? What about the other passengers on all those flights, connecting flights, connecting airports? Ban all of them also?


Bonus question:
Did you know you are agreeing with a now banned troll advocating killing "all those people" for "the greater good"?

[smirkymonkey]

118. No, of course not. I would just favor restrictions on flights out of those countries to any country

As I would for any country where there was a raging deadly epidemic occurring. I think precautions should be taken. That is all. I don't think that people should be allowed to fly without restriction.

[uppityperson]

120. 77 people have been stopped from flying by the screenings, 17 last month, of thousands who flew

Read this link for by the numbers regarding travling.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025634668


You "just" want the USA to somehow restrict ALL travel out of 3 soveriegn nations. All travel because of course they could go overland to the next country.

[smirkymonkey]

123. I am not sure I get your point.

Do you think that no travel restrictions should be imposed? Not being snarky, I just am not sure what you are trying to say.

[uppityperson]

129. There is no way to stop all cases. Current restrictions have told 77 people the can't fly, 1 exposed

person who became ill has managed to pass without being caught. Here are no direct flights, people must transfer leading to at least 2 flight possibly infected, and the connecting airport. How many people have caught ebola from a traveler coming to the USA? None, right? Though to be fair we are waiting on Mr Duncan's family who livd for days in that contaminated apartment. Though to be fair again, people on floghts do not eperience that if those showing symptoms are barred from flying.

Continue to screen people by observation, looking at their temperature and for other symptoms indicating illness or contagiousnss, use a better questionaire.

The person you agree with advocated shooting down airplanes with potentially ill people on them, as well as shooting dead anyone fromLiberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea if they tried to cross their borders. They ended up calling those of us who oppose quarantining an entire country racist. Do you really agree with them?

[smirkymonkey]

167. Oh, no. Of course I don't agree with them. Maybe I responded to the wrong person.

Sorry. I screwed up big on this one. My apologies.

[notadmblnd]

105. Are you intentionally ignorant about ebola? Today is day 11 since Thomas Duncan was hospitalized

I haven't heard whether or not he is recovering yet. However, we also haven't heard about any of the people he was in close contact with coming down with the disease either. I am aware that it takes up to 21 days for people to become sick, but the average is 10 days after exposure. I would think we would be hearing something by the end of the week if those who had close contact with him have become ill. If they don't, your ridiculous reaction will look pretty silly.

In the meantime, I have an idea, go get your shovel and dig yourself one of those fallout shelter things. Stock it with all your favorite things, then take yourself down there and lock yourself in. I think then we should all be quite safe from what ever disease it is that you are trying to spread.

[MineralMan]

18. Don't worry. It's a "black" disease, you know.

Kinda like AIDS was a "gay" disease.

Actually, a travel ban would be pretty much unworkable. For example, we have a bunch of U.S. troops over there, doing humanitarian work. Would you bar them from coming home?

Just wash your hands more often and avoid close contact with Ebola patients and you should be just fine. Oh, and get your flu shot.

[scarystuffyo]

50. It's a scary one

.


Scientists have said for some time that Ebola may be spread through coughing, sneezing and other aerosol transmission.

The top American health agency - the U.S. Centers for Disease Control - has denied this for months. But CDC has finally been forced to admit that it's true.

The Los Angeles Times reports today:






Some scientists who have long studied Ebola say such assurances are premature — and they are concerned about what is not known about the strain now on the loose.



***



Dr. C.J. Peters, who battled a 1989 outbreak of the virus among research monkeys housed in Virginia and who later led the CDC’s most far-reaching study of Ebola’s transmissibility in humans, said he would not rule out the possibility that it spreads through the air in tight quarters.



“We just don’t have the data to exclude it,” said Peters, who continues to research viral diseases at the University of Texas in Galveston.



Dr. Philip K. Russell, a virologist who oversaw Ebola research while heading the U.S. Army’s Medical Research and Development Command, and who later led the government’s massive stockpiling of smallpox vaccine after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, also said much was still to be learned. “Being dogmatic is, I think, ill-advised, because there are too many unknowns here.”



***



“I see the reasons to dampen down public fears,” Russell said. “But scientifically, we’re in the middle of the first experiment of multiple, serial passages of Ebola virus in man…. God knows what this virus is going to look like. I don’t.”



Tom Skinner, a spokesman for the CDC in Atlanta, said health officials were basing their response to Ebola on what has been learned from battling the virus since its discovery in central Africa in 1976. The CDC remains confident, he said, that Ebola is transmitted principally by direct physical contact with an ill person or their bodily fluids. [Well, yes ... everyone knows that physical contact with the victim or their fluids is the prime route of exposure.]



***



Finally, some also question the official assertion that Ebola cannot be transmitted through the air. In late 1989, virus researcher Charles L. Bailey supervised the government’s response to an outbreak of Ebola among several dozen rhesus monkeys housed for research in Reston, Va., a suburb of Washington.



What Bailey learned from the episode informs his suspicion that the current strain of Ebola afflicting humans might be spread through tiny liquid droplets propelled into the air by coughing or sneezing.



“We know for a fact that the virus occurs in sputum and no one has ever done a study [disproving that] coughing or sneezing is a viable means of transmitting,” he said. Unqualified assurances that Ebola is not spread through the air, Bailey said, are “misleading.”



Peters, whose CDC team studied cases from 27 households that emerged during a 1995 Ebola outbreak in Democratic Republic of Congo, said that while most could be attributed to contact with infected late-stage patients or their bodily fluids, “some” infections may have occurred via “aerosol transmission.”



Skinner of the CDC, who cited the Peters-led study as the most extensive of Ebola’s transmissibility, said that while the evidence “is really overwhelming” that people are most at risk when they touch either those who are sick or such a person’s vomit, blood or diarrhea, “we can never say never” about spread through close-range coughing or sneezing.



“I’m not going to sit here and say that if a person who is highly viremic … were to sneeze or cough right in the face of somebody who wasn’t protected, that we wouldn’t have a transmission,” Skinner said.



Peters, Russell and Bailey, who in 1989 was deputy commander for research of the Army’s Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, in Frederick, Md., said the primates in Reston had appeared to spread Ebola to other monkeys through their breath.

[stevenleser]

19. You're getting a lot of curt responses. I disagree with you but what you are talking about

should be on the table and discussed along with various other options for dealing with what's happening.

I don't think we are nearly there yet, but I could envision a scenario where I would support that if things got a couple of levels worse.

[MineralMan]

21. Did you forget that we've sent troops there to do humanitarian work?

Should we not let them come back? Does anyone even think about these things logically?

Seriously. We have one case of Ebola in the United States and people are ready to lock down the borders. There's no need to panic. There really isn't.

[JimDandy]

33. The military will use military transport to and from West Africa. n/t

[MineralMan]

34. Yes, and what difference does that make?

They would still post a risk of bringing Ebola back with them. How is that any different?

I guess it's just the indigenous folks living there we need to be careful about, eh? You make my point nicely.

[JimDandy]

41. Your question read like you were asking HOW we would get our military

back, if air transportation was shut down to West Africa. I was replying to that only.

Now, as to the risk of bringing Ebola back, all our military personnel would be quarantined for 21 days when returning home, of course. We have the legal right to require quarantines of our military personnel, but I don't think we can (nor should) require that yet of non-symptomatic private citizens arriving in the US from West Africa.

[MineralMan]

43. Sorry if I was unclear.

[uppityperson]

37. Will they be quarantined by themselves with no outside contact for 3 wks when they return?

No family, friends, other military people contact?

[JimDandy]

45. Luckily, in this day and age, we have many ways for family to stay in contact with them

short of physical contact.

I am relying on those who are experts in devising specific quarantine guidelines to have them in place, if it comes to that.

[smirkymonkey]

102. We should let troops and other healthcare professionals in, however there should

be restrictions on flights out among the general population. I don't think that is unreasonable considering the circumstances.

[840high]

131. CDC Director just said

more screening measures will be taken for connecting flights.

[geek tragedy]

22. Respectfully disagree.

Thousands of people die from influenza contracted in the United States. Per year. Just in flu season.

Turning west Africa into a prison won't contain Ebola. Only an effective intervention by international health authorities will.

[uppityperson]

31. " Only an effective intervention by international health authorities will." Exactly!

[geek tragedy]

60. Common sense is not the same thing as

actual sense.

Medical assistance needs to go in. Travel bans make that impossible.

Not to mention it wound just punish the 99.9% who don't have it.

[countryjake]

74. You said, "As for the 99.9% who don't have it, that's just too bad."

Members of Liberia's Ebola Task Force enforce a quarantine on the West Point slum on Aug. 20, 2014 in Monrovia, Liberia.

[countryjake]

79. How humane of you...

A Liberian Army soldier, part of the Ebola Task Force, beats a local resident while enforcing a quarantine on the West Point slum in Liberia's capital city of Monrovia on Aug. 20, 2014.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/liberia-ebola-quarantine-photos_n_5696120.html

[uppityperson]

86. Medical assistance, people have their own means of transport? Hahahaahahaha. Fail. They fly

budget seats on commercial airlines.

[uppityperson]

96. MSF and WHO are amateurs in dealing with diseases where the us military is not? Hahahahaha

[smirkymonkey]

92. You make too much sense.

Prepare to be attacked.

[noiretextatique]

121. you mean the racist troll?

it was banned.

[geek tragedy]

100. Do you really think a travel ban will keep it from crossing borders?

How do you prevent people who have flown there from flying to Europe and then the US?

[Sheepshank]

112. again..presupposing that Ebola is only spread by those flying out of that country?

I wish people would realize there are dozens of modes of transportation to take people to neighboring countries and then out. Those borders are pretty porous. You are right, in that a travel ban cannot contain the human desire to flee a place of danger.

[Downwinder]

23. Why be selective? Why not all areas where there have

been outbreaks of hemorrhagic fever?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_hemorrhagic_fever

[Skittles]

70. we certainly already know what you are

[herding cats]

25. I found these two points as to why that's not a great idea to be interesting.

I realize this is in a reply to Elisabeth Hasselbeck, and I'm not equating you to her in anyway. It's a valid question which is on a lot of peoples minds right now.

Fauci: From a public health standpoint, that really doesn't make any sense...

The best way to protect America is to suppress the epidemic in West Africa. And if we completely isolate them, don't let anything in don't let anything out, we know from experience with public health, that marginalizes them, and you could have civil unrest, the governments could fall. And then you could wind up having the spread the virus to other countries in west Africa, which would only compound the problem.

Hasselbeck: What about something perhaps less extreme…

Fauci: Like what?

Hasselbeck: …Not a complete closing. I don't think anyone who has a heart wants some—a group of people to just suffer alone in the world, and there are those that want to go and help, and my heart is with them. But what about a partial ban? A closing of our borders of travel?

Fauci: A closing of our borders? I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by that…

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. If you look at the newspapers, if you look at the TV coverage, you think that West Africa is this nation of the people that you see on the front page of the New York Times sick in Ebola treatment units.

It's a much much larger—this is a nation of millions and millions of people—multiple nations, not one. You have Americans there, you have businesspeople there, people of dual citizenship, who have to go back and forth. It's completely impractical, and from a public health standpoint, not helpful, to [shut down borders]. And I think every public health official feels that way.

http://fortressamerica.gawker.com/uppity-doctor-is-having-none-of-hasselbecks-ebola-borde-1642976766/+laceydonohue

I'm just offering this up here as more food for thought on the rationale behind the pros and cons of imposing a travel ban.

[Agschmid]

26. It can't be effectively done.

[countryjake]

27. Your suggestion reminds me of that lockdown in the Monrovia slum...

remember back in August, when Liberia used riot police to contain and quarantine an entire neighborhood full of mostly healthy poor people?

I'll not say anything more because I like you and have no desire to get snide with you. I just think that there are more humane and intelligent ways to deal with the situation our world has found itself in.

[MADem]

28. Your OP is offensive. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

36. I'm puzzled by the premptive defense against accusations of racism...

before anybody even responded.

Odd to say the least.

[MADem]

42. Indeed. nt

[MineralMan]

51. I'm not that puzzled, really.

It seems pretty clear to me. Obviously the idea of racism occured to the poster, hence the attempt to defuse it.

I'm not sure it's odd as much as ugly.

[Number23]

127. Are you REALLY puzzled? Really?

[840high]

132. I'm not puzzled - DU

is quick to make that accusation.

[MineralMan]

29. So, have you thought about this a little more since starting the thread?

Please tell us you have. There are lots of Americans over there, trying to help sick people. American military personnel will be heading there, too. Still want to stop travel? Really?

[Logical]

53. I doubt they thought about it initially! Nt

[MineralMan]

54. Well, enough to try to fend off people who might think racism

was involved. That must have taken some thought, at least.

[Logical]

56. A defintate hit and run post! Nt

[MineralMan]

58. Frankly, I was more than a little surprised by it.

Truly. Alarmed and disappointed, too.

[MADem]

139. I wasn't surprised at all. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

35. You're channeling Elisabeth Hasselbeck...and that's not a good thing:

NIH doctor schools Elisabeth Hasselbeck after she asks him to ‘seal the borders’ over Ebola

Fox News host Elisabeth Hasselbeck on Monday asked Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institiute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, why he was not recommending a “closing of our borders” in response to an Ebola outbreak in west Africa.

On Monday’s edition of Fox & Friends, Hasselbeck pointed out that a freelance NBC cameraman was being allowed to return to the U.S. after being infected with Ebola. And a man in Dallas who traveled from the Liberia to the U.S. was also fighting for his life.

“Why are we still letting people into the country who could have possibly been exposed?” she asked. “Why not just shut down the flights and secure the borders? Many of you want to know… Why not, just as a precaution until we get things under control, seal off the border temporarily?”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/nih-doctor-schools-elisabeth-hasselbeck-after-she-asks-him-to-seal-the-borders-over-ebola/

[kestrel91316]

39. If they don't control it soon, I can see a 21-day isolation policy

(pre-or post-travel) being put in place, and I don't think I would object to that.

You should see how rigorous some of the animal quarantines are for some of their infectious diseases. UK has a mandatory 6 month quarantine for dogs and cats to prevent rabies getting in. SIX MONTHS.

[MADem]

47. You're behind the times re: UK. Your animal quarantine information is WAY out of date.

I had to quarantine my pets in a certified kennel when I brought them to UK. Six months, cost a fortune. That's no longer a requirement. They went from kennels to home quarantine to ... rabies vaccination at least three weeks prior to travel. UK is the same as Europe when it comes to travelling with pets.

There's a CHUNNEL now--UK is connected to Europe, like it or not. It's no longer entirely unto itself. You get an updated rabies vaccine three weeks before travelling and you're good to go.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-16347725

28 December 2011 Last updated at 20:45 ET
Quarantine laws to be relaxed in UK

...The current laws governing the movement of pets will be brought into line with European legislation.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said "vastly improved rabies vaccines" meant pets no longer had to spend six months in quarantine when entering the UK....But from January, pets from the EU and listed non-EU countries such as the US and Australia will no longer need a blood test and will only have to wait 21 days before they travel....

[kestrel91316]

49. Well it's been over ten years since I needed to prep a cat to go to the UK.

I always check online for the latest requirements before doing international health certificates for ANY country because they are always changing. So I'm not surprised at this and I am very happy about it.

LONG after they built the chunnel they kept that draconian 6 month quarantine, which I thought was silly.

[MADem]

63. They switched to a home quarantine not too long after the chunnel opened (five years or so), IIRC.

You had to keep your cats indoors with a litter box (no cats roaming freely) and dogs could only go out on a leash for walks for six months and you were subject to random visitation. They made you microchip your pets and do blood tests and get a "pet passport" but it was much less onerous.

[goldent]

165. The laws did change but it was not due to the chunnel

The chunnel was opened many years before the change in law. And the chunnel is not that different than a ferry - not much difference between driving your car onto a train car vs driving onto a boat.

[MADem]

170. It was six years after the chunnel opened that the law changed, and the push to change the law

started just before the chunnel opened in 1994. I remember. I was very interested in the process, being someone who hauled a lot of animals with me when I went anywhere.

The concern about the chunnel was rats and other vermin making it across the channel and being rabid. It was a common topic of conversation in the last five to seven years of the 20th century.

Samples: http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/10/news/10iht-rabid.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chunnel-urged-to-check-rabies-1276709.html



Pilot Pet Passport Scheme in 2000: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/657037.stm

[Hugabear]

44. You do realize that would only make things worse, not better

By banning all travel from West Africa, you'll make things worse because of the following:

1. Preventing some of those infected from getting better treatment
2. Preventing doctors and health personnel from traveling to and from the infected areas
3. There are plenty of healthy people - including Americans, Europeans, etc - working and studying in West Africa.
4. Shutting down all traffic in and out of these countries would decimate their economies, making a bad situation much worse

Despite the media frenzy, the fact of the matter is that only a very small percentage of people living in West Africa have been infected. The disease is still difficult to spread. This isn't like influenza, where merely breathing the same air as someone on an airplane could potentially infect you.

How would you enforce such a ban? Even if you managed to shut down all air traffic out of the affected countries, what about neighboring countries that haven't reported any cases? There is more to West Africa than Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Nigeria. Do you restrict all travel in and out of Ghana, just in case someone tries to circumvent the travel ban? What about African nations outside of West Africa? How far do you extend your travel ban?

[JimDandy]

67. Route private aid supplies and personnel

on military transports, which are going to be used soon anyway to transport the military to and from West Africa. That takes care of #1 and #2.

As to #4, I am sure their economy will only get worse if the Ebola outbreak can't be controlled sooner rather than later.

As to enforcement, how has the U.S. enforced the Cuban air travel ban or bans on travel to/from various countries in wartime? Could those travel bans work as models. Which brings me to #3. During travel bans, aren't Americans advised/required to return to America within a window of opportunity before a ban is put in place.

I am not in favor of a travel ban right now. It doesn't seem to be necessary at this point. But if this is ever declared an out-of-control pandemic, I am hoping that people better qualified than I will have the best answers to your questions ready to be put in place. We all need to keep asking these kind of questions so people can be thinking ahead.

[Luminous Animal]

46. ....

&cfs=1

[Cali_Democrat]

48. Perfect. nt

[MineralMan]

52. Simple and to the point.

Thanks.

[Logical]

55. Post and run??? Nt

[Feral Child]

64. EEEEE Bole Ahhhh!

Stop scaring the old people, BB!

[sadoldgirl]

68. This would not work, even just due

to human behavior. If people want to travel, they will find a way. For your proposal to work people would have to tell the truth all about themselves. They will not do it, if you cage them. That would cause even more havoc than allowing their travel and taking precautions. Your idea seems absurd to me, because it is simply based on fear, I think.

[alarimer]

72. So people who are not ill are effectively held prisoner?

Because that is the result of this type of ban.

It would destroy whatever economy remains while also preventing needed personnel and supplies getting in.

[JimDandy]

84. That IS what a quarantine type of ban is for...

to isolate populations of people form each other for the health and safety of all.

A ban seems to me to just be a large scale type quarantine to keep a population OUT of a particular area.

Large aid agencies already have government scrutinized/approved transport lines set up world-wide to get supplies and personnel to/from areas of need. In addition, private supplies and personnel could be transported on the military air transports that will be in place to West Africa soon.

The economy of West Africa will only get worse if this Ebola outbreak can't be halted.

If a ban ever becomes necessary with this disease, I hope some good guidelines will have been developed as to how to do one effectively but humanely. We all need to count on that, if an Ebola pandemic is ever officially declared.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

103. jury results...

pretty sad really that one person agrees with the alerter...

On Tue Oct 7, 2014, 05:57 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

It's time to prevent public travel from western africa and those originating from there.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025632703

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Supports preventing those from Africa from entering the US

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Oct 7, 2014, 06:02 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The OP is expressing an opinion which has generated a lot of discussion. It is not in violation of TOS. If the alerter disagrees with it, he or she should express that in a reply, not a hide.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just because you don't like the content of the post or disagree with its message does not mean it should be hidden. Stop wasting peoples' time and get off your ass and argue against points you disagree with rather than trying to get them hidden. This alert is what makes DU suck more...
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's the location, not the race.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is an idiot; try reading the post next time. 98 replies wasn't enough?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I completely disagree with the poster but there is nothing in the post worthy of hiding.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: There has been no evidence that there is a danger of an Ebola epidemic in the US. Sealing the borders against African travel is xenophobic RW b.s.

[arcane1]

106. Indeed. I served on that one too. #7 missed the point entirely.

I don't agree with the OP, but it's funny how we at DU can be called racist toward freakin' microorganisms if they come from a country with a mostly non-white population

[Rex]

104. Wow...no wonder you won't come back and comment.

I'm shocked that you made this OP.

[Electric Monk]

110. Care to bet whether she tries to pretend in the future that this thread had never even existed?

boston bean (21,530 posts)

It's time to prevent public travel from western africa and those originating from there. [View all]
I'm sure I'm not a racist, so save those snide allegations for someone else, please. I am a realist. And the only way to keep it from spreading here is to do everything that can be done to prevent it from coming here, or the US receiving more people infected with Ebola. Which allows it to spread and put more at risk.

eta by originating, I mean those who live or have been in ebola hot spots.

[dilby]

108. You do realize what will happen if you try to do that right?

You will drive the population into a panic because they will feel trapped and sealed off from the rest of the world, you will have people doing everything they can to leave those countries at that point. Will you be willing to put armed guards on the boarder and shoot to kill all the women and children who try to leave. If you leave the borders open and show the people that people are coming in and out to help them they will not panic and will not be spreading it as much as they will as they do everything they can to escape your quarantine.

[boston bean]

117. wow, according to some, I am a racist....

whatever... make the allegations, make yourself feel highly superior. It was an opinion that many agree with, whether you do nor not.

I'm not about keeping Africa closed off to the world for forever. I am for containing a very deadly disease.

If that makes me a racist... well... I guess that's some one's opinion.

The reason I stated it in the OP was because I had seen the allegation being tossed around for the past week here on DU. And well, I thought that sucked.

So, whatever, have a good night. I hope this response suffices....

[The Straight Story]

130. Well, well, well. Welcome to the club BB

According to some I am a misogynist, homophobic (back during the snickers ad/superbowl), racist, etc.

I'm not about keeping Africa closed off to the world for forever. I am for containing a very deadly disease.

I am not about keeping women down, stopping their health care choices (or any other choices), I side with liberals and vote for candidates who are for continuing the battle to ensure the rights of all people. I get that whites have privilege, that women get the short end of the stick most the time, and that there are a plethora of problems that it seems only liberals seem to care about.

But now? Because, like you, I didn't totally agree with someone on something? I hate all women, am a sexist pig, hate all races other than white people (and probably hate most whites who aren't from a certain subset in Europe), etc and so on.

Maybe...just maybe - labeling people isn't the most conducive thing when it comes to having a conversation. Just because you have your view on things doesn't mean I think you are racist. You bring up an interesting discussion about a current topic. I don't think you are racist for asking/commenting on the topic even if I don't think the solution you are promoting is the most progressive.

And maybe, just maybe, I don't hate all women and I care about feminist issues.

[boston bean]

133. Well well well

Bug off. You and I have zero in common.

[MADem]

135. I was a victim of that spurious labeling. nt

[AverageJoe90]

162. I was falsely attacked a few times, too. So yeah, it does suck. nt

[Violet_Crumble]

147. I don't think yr a racist, but I can see why the thread wandered down that path...

It was kicking off the OP with 'I'm sure I'm not a racist, so save those snide allegations for someone else, please.' It's like starting something with 'I'm sure everyone will call me an anti-Semite/homophobe/Islamophobe/sexist/racist'. Sometimes it's followed up with stuff that shows they are indeed what they think everyone will call them, and sometimes not, but it's pretty much an invite for people to label you. If you were a conservative, my suspicion would be it's borne of racism, but yr not, and I know you well enough to know racism's got nothing to do with yr views on this. What I'm seeing is frustration at what does appear to be an inept official response to what's grown into a pandemic in Western Africa...

I don't have a dog in this as I'm lucky to live somewhere where it's highly unlikely even one case of Ebola will happen, and just like the US have an advanced health system and other stuff that Liberia and Sierra Leone don't have, like infrastructure, sanitation, customs that don't help the spread of Ebola, and all that stuff.

But having said that, I do think there's a need for countries to take realistic precautions against it spreading. I don't know if imposing travel bans would be effective or necessary, though. I would have thought other countries stepping in and doing what those countries haven't got the resources to do and supplying that state of the art airport stuff that screens peoples body temperatures, as well as people who know how to use them. And some sort of quarantine period once people land at their destination.

I can sort of see both sides of it with the idea of travel bans. British Airways has already suspended flights to and from Liberia and Sierra Leone, and aid organisations have complained that it's made it difficult for them to get their staff into those countries. But British Airways also have the well being of their staff to consider, as they can't guarantee their safety during layovers.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/british-airways-hampering-ebola-aid-effort-west-africa-agencies

This following one's probably already been posted at DU but I missed seeing it. It's a really long article, but it details the incredibly slow international response to the outbreak and how out of touch with reality the high level planning by WHO can be in a situation like this one...

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/how-the-world-let-ebola-spread-20141007-10rh8r.html

The most important thing that goes hand in hand with preventing the spread of Ebola is that the outbreak is contained in those two countries, because that itself will stop the spread. I don't usually like what the US military's used for, but in this case the US is doing something really good by using the military, because with the size of the outbreak now, aid organisations just don't have the resources to even make a dent in it

[countryjake]

152. +1 Thanks for linking to that Washington Post piece.

I'd read that last weekend and I thought that the article laid out the situation better than anything printed so far (I never saw it posted here at DU either, but I haven't been around consistently, either).

Getting into the affected areas to provide proper treatment and effective medical containment facilities should have been the priority from the start and Doctors Without Borders, who recognized that very early on, should be commended for their efforts (We sent off a donation for them on Monday, after reading that piece).

Thanks, Violet, for a most thoughtful (and rational) post!

[Rex]

163. First off, 4 people agree with you. Second, I don't think you are a racist.

But I do think you are starting to panic way too early.

[Marr]

122. Embarrassing.

This irrational panicking suggests a level of scientific illiteracy. The threat is being hyped and overblown by people who have seen too many movies.

[MADem]

126. It's more of a "facts be damned" attitude, I suspect. nt

[neverforget]

136. Well this thread did bring out "name removed"

[Warren DeMontague]

138. I agree. Borders are already closed, and that has worked to keep it contained to 3 main countries

For the most part.

Humanitarian aid getting in does not require that recreational visa holders looking to be able to vacation in the US, be able to get out (to be clear, the US only has jurisdiction over people coming into our country, and thats what i'm talking about.)Senegal has opened up an air bridge- the military is the number one logistical organization on the world.. The idea that a small number of people not being able to fly out of Monrovia and travel to the US will somehow impact the fight against the virus there, is facile. Nor does adopting commonsense containment measures conflict with "stopping it over there". We can - and should - do everything we can to help over there, but I simply don't buy that "helping over there" has to include allowing sick people to get on planes and spread this disease with a 70% lethality rate, to other countries.

If travel restrictions are such an onerous, horrible thing, and I dont believe they are- that's all the more incentive for the countries involved to get it under control.

And you know what? Doesnt matter what DU thinks, most people agree with you. Which is why the Administration is scrambling, belatedly, to assure people the CDC will finally add some undefined layer of screening on our end to the "form and temperature check" which allegedly constitutes containment on the other end of this.

[arthritisR_US]

143. What a fecking stupid idea. Nt

[PADemD]

145. Not stupid, according to the CDC and the UK government.

Warning - Level 3, Avoid Nonessential Travel

Updated: October 07, 2014

CDC urges all US residents to avoid nonessential travel to Liberia, Guinea, and Sierra Leone because of unprecedented outbreaks of Ebola in those countries. CDC recommends that travelers to these countries protect themselves by avoiding contact with the blood and body fluids of people who are sick with Ebola.

If you have symptoms of Ebola or have been exposed to Ebola -- even if you are not sick – you will not be allowed to travel on commercial planes, buses, trains, or ships.

If you have been exposed to Ebola but are not sick, you will either have to arrange a charter flight home or stay in West Africa for at least 21 days until authorities ensure it is safe for you to travel.

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/ebola-liberia

Posted in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025635687

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025635756

[arthritisR_US]

149. Warning people against nonessential travel to

those countries is smart but that is not the same thing as shutting down travel in and out of that country.

[PADemD]

151. Not many people can afford

to arrange a charter flight home or stay in West Africa for at least 21 days until authorities ensure it is safe for you to travel.

[Warren DeMontague]

156. Do you understand that the land borders around those countries are already closed?

Do you disagree with that move, too?

[arthritisR_US]

158. Closing off getting aid, supplies and medical

personnel would devastate those countries even more than they already are, that's what I understand. Closing each of those countries off from each other makes sense given the people fleeing in fear. A rumour that had enormous traction was that Ebola was a hoax by the medical community and they were really after people's blood.

[Warren DeMontague]

159. And Senegal has opened up a humanitarian air bridge.

But it's worth noting that the epidemic has been geographically contained, for the most part. One guy got into Senegal, but in general the virus has been much more effective at getting out via airplane.

There are numerous ways to get aid IN without letting vacationing visa-holders from the 3 countries visit ours.

[arthritisR_US]

161. I consider vacationers non essential travellers

and those are the ones I agree shutting their borders to. Business and the others I mentioned earlier I don't agree shutting in/out.

[Warren DeMontague]

166. I think we all have the same goal.

I'm not sitting here going "let's not help, let's shut the borders and let them sort it out". We have a human, moral responsibility to help deal with this, and when it's all over, not leave these countries with the sorts of dilapidated HC systems (or lack thereof) which allow this sort of thing to get so out of hand.

But stricter restrictions could have prevented Mr. Duncan from coming over. I think we all agree that the fewer incidences we have like that, the better.

[arthritisR_US]

168. Agreed. I see a lot of fear and we need to

take a deep breath and remember our humanity.

[Warren DeMontague]

169. I've been paying attention to this since April.

Made a donation to MSF around that time, because of it.

We can be smart and compassionate, they aren't mutually exclusive.

[arthritisR_US]

171. I totally agree but some if what I've seen as

"smart" is what I would expect from the Mit bag board.

[Warren DeMontague]

172. Well, chew on this: Who are some of the largest constituencies in our party? Public employees-

teachers, service workers, public transportation employees, or people like EMTs and front line health care providers.

People who deal with the public, people who will be right there dealing with any additional outbreaks in this country. If the numbers in L/SL/G continue to grow exponentially, and we start seeing regular and even increasingly frequent importations of cases, and those teachers, public employees and health care workers, are the ones (and their families) being exposed on a regular basis- you honestly believe this will break on traditional "left/right" lines?

It's easy to paint everyone concerned about cases coming into this country as some kind of right-wing xenophobe, but I don't actually believe that is the case.

[gollygee]

150. I think the way to handle the problem is to get the right medical equipment

into the areas that are hot spots so they aren't hot spots anymore. Get the disease under control right there.

[AverageJoe90]

160. Well.....

I gotta be honest: I really don't think it would work too well, as those areas of West Africa that have been so badly affected, really do need outside help in dealing with this outbreak, including from the United States....so there's that.

[Hippo_Tron]

164. I'm going to trust that the CDC has this one under control

Considering I don't know jack shit about the spread of diseases, I'm leaving this one to the experts.