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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBill Maher on Islam spat with Ben Affleck: “We’re liberals! We’re not crazy tea-baggers”
MONDAY, OCT 6, 2014 04:00 AM PDT
EXCLUSIVE: Bill Maher on Islam spat with Ben Affleck: Were liberals! Were not crazy tea-baggers
Comedian tells Salon about his clash with Affleck, his "Flip a District" effort -- and a recent date with Rand Paul
.....
But I want to ask you how you felt the Ben Affleck/Sam Harris segment went. Did you feel frustrated as it was happening?
I think Sam and I and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Salman Rushdie and everyone who is basically making the same point, I think we all feel frustrated because I think we feel like the people who are arguing with us are not listening.
Were liberals! Were liberals. Were not crazy tea-baggers, yknow, and so its kind of hard to be making this case based on facts, based on polling, I think based on what everybody really knows
I mean, do the people arguing with us, would they really open a lesbian art gallery in Ramallah? [Laughs] Or Karachi? Or Cairo? I dont know if they would back up what theyre saying with actions.
We are not bigoted people. On the contrary, were trying to stand up for the principles of liberalism! And so, yknow, I think were just saying we need to identify illiberalism wherever we find it in the world, and not forgive it because it comes from [a group] people perceive as a minority.
Did you expect Affleck to get as upset as he did
You know, I dont want to talk about this. You just said were not going to talk about this and now were talking about it.
Well, I dont want to debate the character of Islam with you, but I am interested in how the pushback youre getting from liberals makes you feel about your place within contemporary liberalism. Do you feel like the intensity of the criticism is forcing you out of the community or do you more take the position that arguments can be painful but theyre ultimately healthy?
It is healthy; and also, I dont care about any community. Ive always said what I believed and anyone who does not like healthy debate probably isnt watching [my] show to begin with.
And again: If youre a liberal, stand up for liberal principles. Im the liberal in this debate.
...........
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/06/exclusive_bill_maher_on_islam_spat_with_ben_affleck_were_not_crazy_tea_baggers/?utm_source=huffpost_politics&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_article
arcane1
(38,613 posts)SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)hell I've seen Jon Stewart get thrown under the bus.
Maher has some dumb ideas but in general I like him. As it goes with many folks. There is almost no one on the planet you are going to agree with 100% of the time, and thank god for that, it'd be like the future portrayed in Demolition Man... DU needs to figure this out at some point..
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)He is not a hypocrite on this. He is against nutty religion.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Once again DUers took a comment or an argument and projected the most venal arguments onto Bill's head. His claim that many on the left automatically call anyone who says anything negative an Islamophobe was right on the money.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)But I will condemn radical Christians and radical Islam, and challenge those who oppose them of that faith to speak out and be fair about it. There is no reason to wring your hands over criticism of one and not the other. Both religions can and should be able to hack it.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)just because it is somebody's religion. I do not have the patience to argue with liberals who think it is.
Ampersand Unicode
(503 posts)It's simple math, really.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Thanks.
A few decades ago I was close friends with a large university Turkish community and found the misogynistic attitudes even in this relatively more progressive group shocking. Truly liberal attitudes are not valued but are opposed in such communities. Afleck and anyone who'd call me bigoted should also call anyone opposing the rightwing bigoted, if they applied the same logic and standards.
Liberal, progressive ideas should always trump any person or any group.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)And please don't let anyone here tell you otherwise. If he were trashing Christianity, this place would throw him a fucking parade.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Liberals will fall all over themselves trying to be so inclusive when it comes to minorities (even though I think Islam is now the largest religion in the world) that they twist themselves into a pretzel defending the indefensible.
I wonder if the liberals would put as much passion into defending Christianity? Hell, I've heard worse about Catholics and Mormons on DU!
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)but I think he needs to do more to differentiate between the customs and governments of some Muslim-dominant countries - which admittedly are abysmal - and Muslims in general. There are somewhere between 1.5 and 2 billion Muslims in the world, and their personal beliefs and feelings run the gamut between hard-core Fundamentalist ISIS types to almost 100% secular, like a lot of us lapsed Christians, and my guess is that's even within those very conservative countries, although, of course, they can't speak freely because of their country's laws. Remember, of course, those Christian Ugandans who wanted the death penalty for gay people.
It's not hard to imagine that a modern American Muslim, for example, might take offense at what seems to be Bill's generalizations about their religion. The Qu'ran is no more violent than the Bible, and most Muslims who live in modern, free countries are no more crazy or radical than anyone else.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)He thinks that anyone who believes in any God has mental health issues--whether those beliefs are fundamentalist or secular.
He's been very consistent on this issue. I'm not saying what he believes is right but he has been consistent.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I am just as fearful of the Baptist in the house next door to me who believes Obama is the anti-Christ and VOTES as I am of some Muslim in some godforsaken desert mud hut on the other side of the world.
I can live with both, but both are impacting my and our personal liberties and freedoms.
It is religion.
Joe Turner
(930 posts)don't, one can make the case that it is the fundamentalist atheists that have mental issues.
I happen to be Agnostic on religious matters. IMO, given the very limited ability of our intellect, we will never be able to grasp the levels of philosophies or science that can prove or disprove the existence of God. I find it perplexing that anyone can take a hard line either way on this question.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Maher doesn't just "pick on" Fundamentalist Muslims... he picks on all believers, no matter their level of belief.
As far as your claim: "Since those that believe in God greatly outnumber those that don't, one can make the case that it is the fundamentalist atheists that have mental issues." One, there's no such thing as fundamentalist atheists... there's just atheists--don't ascribe religious terms toward people that have a lack of belief in religion--it's insulting. More so, your statement doesn't hold water.
Most of the people believed the Earth was flat at one time, just because their numbers had the majority didn't make them right.
The majority of folks at one time believed the sun and planets revolved around the Earth... didn't make them right.
Then there's bloodletting and all kinds of things science believed, hence the general population believed, that turned out to not be true.
Joe Turner
(930 posts)That see the non-existence of God in black and white terms and are ever eager to inject their opinions in the most arrogant manner? I must have missed something.
On your other point, if one views knowledge as infinite as the universe there is no way the human mind can ever wrap itself around the existence of God either way. The trend is not your friend here.
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)it does make me wonder. Since there are around 2 Billion Muslims in the world, why is it that we hear only from a handful and even that is hardly ever. This great majority isn't taking any time to let the world that they aren't backing the fundamentalist terrorist wing of their religion. Getting other Muslim countries to support in the fight against terrorists or even simply to DENOUNCE the terrorists is harder than keeping ice cream frozen in a hot car in July.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Maybe you're right that moderate Muslims aren't speaking out, but our media is not known for presenting all sides in these sorts of matters, and it's to the advantage of our war machine to downplay any moderate voices - especially if they might become "collateral damage" in some future bombing mission. It's better to let Americans think of them all as "the enemy."
I was happy (and surprised) that the CBS evening news last night interviewed some of the Muslim people who had been working with the British aid worker who was beheaded. They were clearly appalled.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)hardly use only our media. We watch the BBC and Al Jazeera and read publications that are far from the mainstream. It seems the only time I see anything resembling a massive demonstration it's in favor of the nutcases. Bill is not a bigot for pointing that out.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)For example, here we have the Tea Party, which makes a lot of noise and wields a lot of power, even though they are a minority of Americans. Moderates aren't usually in the streets demonstrating angrily or threatening revoluation, even here. We don't know why moderate Muslims aren't getting themselves in the news, but I imagine it's because they're busy leading their lives, wherever they happen to find themselves - just like the rest of us.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)a political party who had a good run in 2010 and now people pretty much ignore or make fun of. This is a group(s) that are hijacking a religion and using it against their own. isil has killed far more Muslims than anyone else so yes, I would expect those who are against them to rise up and CRUSH them. Instead I'm watching them march across Syria and now Iraq with seemingly nobody doing anything other than asking the US to bail them out.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)living in Duhok, northern Iraq, who has been posting pictures on Facebook of demonstrations in his city against Dash, his term for ISIS, and artists going on hunger strikes. This has to be at great personal risk.
We can sit over here and speculate all we want, but I'm not so sure we can read the hearts and minds of moderate Muslims around the world, even in these very dangerous places.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)He's saying that appallingly right-wing attitudes are held by a large majority of Muslims in general (although by no means all), and that it's misleading to present the problem as just being about governments and customs of certain countries.
If anything, the governments and constitutions of many Muslim-majority nations are less right-wing on e.g. women's rights, freedom of speech or freedom of religion than their populaces are.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)as I have Muslims in my extended family who are wonderful people, in no way "appallingly right-wing."
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)None of us knows the universe of Muslims, so it's really difficult to make generalizations.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I can think of no statement of the form "all Muslims X" that is not false.
But
1) There are lots of statements of the form "Most Muslims X" - or, even better, "According to this soure, 81% of Muslims X" - that are true (I do not think this claim is controversial)
2) Many of those statements are fair, useful and informative (I think this claim is slightly controversial).
Bigotry begins when you interpret "most" or "81%" as "all" or, in particular "this one standing in front of me".
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I found this episode to be one of my recent favorites. Ben Affleck did a good job presenting his ideas on most of the show, but when it came to debate this, he was wrong and was completely over matched by Maher.
Gone Girl was a really good movie too
Ampersand Unicode
(503 posts)It's not easy to separate the "art" from the "artist," since a lot of their ideologies and mindsets inevitably end up in their work.
What we did in Iran was effed up imperialism in real life, but in hindsight, I'm a little concerned that he might have come unhinged during the filming of Argo. Maybe that was the reason for the "lucky" facial hair?
The only way you'll know if he's gone full-on Cat Stevens if he busts out of his trailer shouting "DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!" on the set of a Spielberg film. Oy.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I think Maher was arguing that the Koran says you must kill infidels, which is followed in Muslim theocracies.
But it's not followed by peaceful Muslims in secular countries.
Maher was saying that the Koran is full of violent teachings. He could say the same about the other two Abrahamic religions.
Sensible people will ignore the violent teachings, but some of the followers are going to go out and kill people that they disagree with. And that includes some Christians that hate liberals and abortion doctors.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Bill Maher and Sam Harris support many of these imperial adventures. Torture supporting Sam Harris is a full-fledged neocon, and Bill Maher displays his imperial arrogance by dehumanizing many of the victims of these imperial adventures.
They both were major cheerleaders of Israel's atrocities against the Gaza Strip. Some bigot tried to post in GD one of Sam Harris' bigoted pieces supporting Israel's aggression against the Gaza Strip. Fortunately the post was promptly hidden.
Bill Maher has claimed that Arabs and Muslim only know violence and the only way to deal with Muslims is with violence. He openly supports Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign against Arabs because he considers Jewish lives far more worthy than Muslim and Arab lives.
Bill Maher and Sam Harris are both dangerous religious extremists.
THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!!! by Sam Haris: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep/18/opinion/oe-harris18
On questions of national security, I am now as wary of my fellow liberals as I am of the religious demagogues on the Christian right.
This may seem like frank acquiescence to the charge that "liberals are soft on terrorism." It is, and they are.
A cult of death is forming in the Muslim world -- for reasons that are perfectly explicable in terms of the Islamic doctrines of martyrdom and jihad. The truth is that we are not fighting a "war on terror." We are fighting a pestilential theology and a longing for paradise.
Here it is in his book 'The End of Faith': http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2
What will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at the mere mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry? If history is any guide, we will not be sure about where the offending warheads are or what their state of readiness is, and so we will be unable to rely on targeted, conventional weapons to destroy them. In such a situation, the only thing likely to ensure our survival may be a nuclear first strike of our own. Needless to say, this would be an unthinkable crimeas it would kill tens of millions of innocent civilians in a single daybut it may be the only course of action available to us, given what Islamists believe. How would such an unconscionable act of self-defense be perceived by the rest of the Muslim world? It would likely be seen as the first incursion of a genocidal crusade.
He plays these same games to create scenarios where torture is justified. He supported the Iraq War and supports an aggressive foreign policy against Muslims. It is clear who is a danger to this world.
He has some similarities to William Bennett who has also written on morality, and who is also morally retarded. Here's William Bennett speaking to a radio caller:
But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.
One fantasizes about racist abortions and the other fantasizes about genocide - two birds of a feather.
condoleeza
(814 posts)Thought Bill was an ass in the way he talked to Ben, who I agreed w/completely. Have always loved B/Maher, but this gives me a huge question mark as to whether we can trust him anymore.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)throwing tomatoes at the unpopular minority group du jour. Liberals err on the side of protecting minorities from discrimination and bigotry.
He apparently thinks of himself as a liberal. I don't.
Shame on him.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)which is what Mayer is.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)6000eliot
(5,643 posts)whether held by Muslims, Christians, or atheists.