Asking about Desired Salary

[Dirty Socialist]

I have an interview tomorrow. One question I can't stand is what is my desired salary. I think it's rude. I was taught that he who mentions money first loses. What the employer is saying is "lose". I also think it's a lazy way to weed out potential employees.
Companies should either tell you up front what the pay is, or negotiate later.
Companies have a leg up on the workers, and they feel they can do just about anything they want.

[badtoworse]

1. I would try to finesse my way out of that one.

I 'd say that I'd like to learn more about the position and fully present my qualifications before we discussed salary. That question is a tough one.

[WillowTree]

20. Just don't expect a second interview if you do.

The interviewer is sure to see through that kind of dodgeball.

[badtoworse]

28. That is certainly a big risk

OTOH, if an interviewer asked me that question at the beginning of the interview, it's obvious they're only interested in getting someone on the cheap. A company with those priorities probably has a lot of other negatives associated with it. I'm not sure I'd be interested in working for such a company.

[drray23]

2. i would suggest

You find out what is the typical range in the industry for your job and give them a number in the top 1/3 of that range. You probably have an idea i am sure.

Be prepared for the followup question i.e why do you think you are worth that. Thats your cue to reiterate your strong points and how you will benefit them.

If you are not rattled by the question and exude confidence, you will go a long way towards getting what you want.

[edgineered]

22. Yes, first ask another question

Using drray23's upper range, let's say its 45k.

"I expect that if you have profit sharing, insurance, and some form of vacation and personal days the rate would be in the range of 43 to 47k. Without a benefit package we would need to discuss other conditions to keep the figures in that range. How much were you paying my predecessor?"

Be bold. Speak a number higher than he expects to hear - make him think, break his stride. Force him.

[TexasTowelie]

3. I agree.

It pretty much represents what you are willing to accept to sell your services. My advice is to make cerain that you provide an amount sufficient to take care of your needs and desires. It used to be that you could count on raises if you did a good job, but that is no longer true so don't submit too low of a bid.

[TheDebbieDee]

4. Go to www.onetonline.org. It 's a Bureau of Labor and Statististics database from salary/occupa

Tional surveys returnedto the BLS. The db will provide you the low-range, median-range and high-range salary considered fair market value for your skill set and experience level for your part of the country.

[merrily]

26. I bet a lot of people can use that resource. Thanks.

[Xithras]

38. Glassdoor.com can be another great resource.

Glassdoor has actual wage data from tens of thousands of American companies, sorted by job title. With major employers, you can often find out exactly what kind of wage the company is paying for the exact job you're looking at. With smaller employers, it gives you the ability to research what other companies are paying for those same job duties in your area.

I always make a point to try and look up the wage data for a company before going in for an interview. You'll usually end up with a range, and I pick a nice round number about two thirds of the way up that range (you can bet that they're going to try to work you down on your desired salary, so you never want to open the discussion at the bottom of the range...but you don't want to be requesting their highest wage tier right off the bat either).

[JoePhilly]

5. Use the phrase "total compensation"

... Ask them to describe their total compensation package ... Medical, pension, 401k, stock programs, salary and level structures.

If it's just salary this won't help much, but if they have any of the other elements, you get to open the discussion without going directly to salary.

On salary, discuss "ranges", for various levels ... Discuss potentials at the levels. You can be ambiguous, try to get them to be specific.

[merrily]

6. It's really crappy of an employer to ask that w/o giving you info first.

They hold all the cards. They know what the max is that they are willing to pay and what they have paid for similar services in the past. They also know it's a lousy job market and are obviously hoping you low ball.

You might say simply that, candidly, you prefer the company makes the opening offer. That signals that it might be a negotiation, while also possibly getting you an inkling of what they have in mind.

Another option is to say something like "I don't want initial salary to be a stumbling block for either of us because I believe the totality of the relationship is more important. Obviously, you have a salary range in mind. I would be confident accepting an initial salary at the lower end of whatever your range is for this position, with the understanding that it will be reviewed within three months."

That also throws it back to them, while implying that you are confident you will perform well in the next three months. And, if they should forget the review three months later, feel free to remind them. Meanwhile, try to get more info about what other people there who do your kind of work are getting.

Also, I like the ideas of the other posters who have replied. The concept of total compensation is important, too. Employers sometimes rather give a bonus because a bonus does not become a permanent part of your compensation and they don't have to give one again. So, you might slide that word in somewhere.

PS. Sending good thoughts.

[Demit]

9. Just curious: how would you go about finding out what other people are getting there?

[merrily]

10. I assume anyone who asks a question is asking because they are curious.

But usually, there is a reason for the curiosity.

I usually try to be friendly with co-workers because work is that much more pleasant if I am and can be hell if I am not. After getting comfortable with them and they with me, I would ask.

However, I would not ask "What do you make?" I would make it a more general question, so that people do not feel I am prying into their personal business. And I would avoid specifics. Like, "What would guess the salary range is for our department?" Not, "Do you know what John makes?" Though, "Do you know what the person I am replacing was making?" might be okay if that person left the company (as opposed to getting promoted or transferred).

I know many employers ask employees not to discuss compensation with each other. This invariably works to the detriment of employees. Maybe I'd mention that as a general point a few weeks before I asked anything.

I'm just spitballing off the top of my head without a lot of thought, though. The above is not anything I have ever had to do because I've always known what the salary was for jobs for which I applied.

[Demit]

12. You gave the advice to a person who doesn't work there yet.

You advised the OP, who is going on an interview tomorrow, to find out what people at the company make before they are his coworkers.

That's pretty much the reason for my curiosity. (?)

[merrily]

23. No, I did not. My post set the time frame for finding out after he got

hired, but before the three month review I suggested he might request today.

And, if they should forget the review three months later, feel free to remind them. Meanwhile, try to get more info about what other people there who do your kind of work are getting.

If I had expected him to get the info somehow between last night and this morning, I would have said more about method last night because I do recognize that would not be self-evident. However, offhand, as I sit here half asleep, I cannot imagine how he could do that overnight without breaking into the firm's human resources files, and I never contemplated that, nor would I ever advise anyone to do such a dumb thing.

[Demit]

24. Ah yes, I see now. I read too fast.

[merrily]

27. No problem. Happens to all of us.

I would not have time to make even five posts, let alone do anything else, if I carefully read every word of an OP article, followed every embedded link and read that material, watched every video, etc. It's a message board, not grad school.

[rocktivity]

7. Give a salary RANGE

"I'm looking for a something in the mid-to-high forties." Base it on current ranges for your industry, location, and experience, of course.

That gives you both wiggle room.


rocktivity

[Dirty Socialist]

18. I will give a range

It will be pretty low, but I need a job, and maybe my pay will be increased if they eventually will hire me permanently.

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. Salary desired? One word;

"Competitive"

That's all I ever put on an application.

[merrily]

11. P.S. Don't telegraph uneasiness about any question.

No matter what, any underage can be adjusted after the fact, such as by a bonus, especially if that is mentioned casually up front.

[Chan790]

13. I always smile and ask for a ridiculous number.

Adding that I'm willing to negotiate. Basically, I put it on them to show their hand first.

"What's this, a janitorial opening? Well, I'd really like $350,000/hour, but I am willing to negotiate. I mean it's not just about the money, it's the whole package: job-satisfaction, benefits package, a desirable work-schedule. You know, the things everybody wants."

[Sheldon Cooper]

14. You're a Socialist?

Tell them you will take according to your need, after contributing according to your ability.

[Dirty Socialist]

16. I'm A Capitalist

My right wing friends think I'm a socialist.

[Dirty Socialist]

15. It's A Temp to Perm Job

It calls for someone with a two year or four year degree.
I looked up salaries for the company and one person with a better title was making $16 per hour. That brings up the old point that pay is getting squeezed everywhere.

[rocktivity]

19. Interview as though it's a permanent position

And base your range on the $16 an hour (low to mid-thirties).


rocktivity

[Brickbat]

17. If this is your first interview with the company, tell them that your skills speak for themselves

and that if they call you back for a second interview, you'll discuss it then.

[markpkessinger]

21. Here's an excerpt from an artice on Lifehacker that may help

From http://lifehacker.com/how-to-negotiate-your-salary-1566202988

The Noel Smith-Wenkle Salary Negotiation Method

Noel Smith-Wenkle was a job headhunter during the 1980s. He developed the following method to get as much money for his clients as possible during salary negotiations (which, in turn, meant a greater commission for him).

The first rule of Smith-Wenkle's method is to never tell the employer how much you'll take. Let the company name the first number.

In practice, the Smith-Wenkle Method involves four steps:

1. If the company asks for a number on the application, leave it blank.
   
   
2. When the company verbally asks how much you'll take, you say, "I'm much more interested in doing [type of work] here at [name of company] than I am in the size of the initial offer." Smith-Wenkle says this will suffice about 40% of the time.
   
   
3. If the company asks a second time, your answer is: "I will consider any reasonable offer." This is a polite stalling tactic, and Smith-Wenkle says this will work another 30% of the time.
   
   
4. About 30% of the time, you'll reach this final step. Again, your response is a polite refusal to answer the question: "You're in a much better position to know how much I'm worth to you than I am." This is your final answer, no matter how many times the company tries to get you to go first.

Again, the purpose of this method is to get the company to be the first side to name a number. Once the company makes an offer, there are two options. If the offer is above your minimum, take the job. If it's below your minimum, tell them it's too low—but do not say by how much.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. I always counter with,

"What does the position pay?" They're trying to get you to lowball your salary. If they persist, I ask them, "Did you have a salary range in mind?" If they still persist, I ask them, "Is this an offer?" If they say no you can tell them that you'll be happy to discuss salary when a job offer is made.

[phantom power]

29. You *do* want to ask for a salary target, you *don't* want to talk about previous salaries.

Our taboo against asking for money, and talking about salaries, works against us.

Go into the interview with an idea about what the typical range for the position + location + experience-level is. Ask for something on the high end of that range as your opening position. If you don't like what they're offering, be willing to push back.

Do *not* allow them to butter you up with "total compensation." Employers use that as a way to get you to settle for a lower salary. Do *not* assume you will get future raises, or bonuses, or stock options, etc. The one thing they basically can't reduce on you is your base salary.

Do *not* let them railroad you into giving away your current salary, or past salaries. Once they know that, they'll offer you some tiny amount more than that, regardless of what you should be getting for the actual position they're hiring for.

Your negotiating position is never stronger than when you are interviewing.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20140924132829-52594--what-did-you-earn-at-your-last-job

My first 15 years or so, I left a lot of salary on the table by just going with the flow and "trusting" employers to be offering me a fair salary. My current job, I negotiated my salary up from what they offered me. It was after they gave me the happy song and dance about total compensation. Yeah, the bonuses and stock plan are nice, but no, I'm not settling for a lower salary because of it. Never again.

[titaniumsalute]

30. I disagree with the total compensation part of your discussion

I am currently negotiating a potential new job. The position pays a salary less than I make now but it is a position I highly desire for a number of reasons. One way that they are "getting" to the number I need is by providing additional TOTAL Compensation. I will have a fully usable company automobile saving me $3,500 to $4,500 per year in a car payment plus probably about $1,300 per year in insurance costs. That's $4,800 to $5,800 savings for me annually.

I will get one week additional paid vacation than I get now which at 40 years old with kids I desire. (Plus I have a hobby that pays fairly well so I can do extra work at that making more money.)

Third, they are offering me to pay for a Master's Degree which will save me around $15,000 to $20,000.

I do know this company well and they have a solid history of treating employees well. So I do trust them to provide these.

As for companies not reducing salaries, they can do that at anytime if they desire. It happened to millions of people especially in late 2008 and 2009 when the recession was in full swing. Just ask the airline pilots.

[phantom power]

32. In my experience, employers reduce benefits long before they start reducing base salaries.

I've seen health packages get cut. I've seen tuition reimbursement programs get cut out. I've never had my base salary decreased.

Every employer I've ever negotiated with has used stock options or other stock plans as a way to argue that it's really just as good as more salary. Most of them weren't worth the paper they were printed on. None of them have ever worked out so well as to make me say "wow, that was worth getting less salary for"

My current employer (who I'm quite happy with currently, don't get me wrong) absolutely spent 20 minutes talking up their various non-salary benefits, and *then* made their salary offer. Which was definitely on the low end. I negotiated that up.

I do agree with you that there's more to job satisfaction than just salary. I actually wish I'd negotiated for more vacation days, which I might have traded a bit of salary for. I did work for a small company that took our advice and kept their better health plan. We told them that we'd prefer a salary decrease to a cut-rate health plan, and as it happened we kept our health plan and our salaries.

I'm just saying, in my personal experience, you should always go into the negotiation understanding what's competitive, and start negotiations higher than what you privately are willing to settle for. Nobody should have to compromise on a competitive base salary, "total compensation" or otherwise.

I suppose other people's experience might differ.

[titaniumsalute]

34. Yeah the whole process is like nailing jello to a wall

It's slippery depending on the job, the role, the company, the management, etc.

[phantom power]

35. lol, "jello to a wall" - no kidding

Here's one more story I should tell, long as I'm pontificating on a thread about salary negotiations.

Many moons ago, this company I was working at hired a kid fresh out of undergrad. He was a good kid, but no rock star, and no experience. I happened to learn that he hired on for $55K/year. This was a real fucking eye-opener for me, because I was currently making $50K / year, with almost 10 years of experience and a Master's degree.

I considered the guys who hired me to be friends. In fact, I still consider them friends. But one thing is for damn sure, that was the first of many lessons in how you never get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. Friends or otherwise.

[titaniumsalute]

36. Yes and I should come clean

I've done A LOT of negotiations in my business days. I like doing it so it comes natural to me. But probably about 80% of the general work force has no idea how to negotiate or feel very uncomfortable doing it. When I hire I enjoy asking salary questions. Not so much so they give me a number, but I like to see how a potential employee will respond. How do they perform the answer under some stress? Are they poised or introverted with their answer? Do they squirm or get assertive?

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

31. First, you want to get past the first interview

"I'm a hard worker and think I would be an asset to this company, so I would expect a wage competitive within this industry; however, I can't really give you a figure without knowing more about the position, as well, as benefits provided."

If pushed, "Well, my research indicates that $XXX is on the lower spectrum, and our cost of living is more here, so I would expect that to be reflected in your offer" or some other such statement that you can come up with.

[KitSileya]

33. Seeing as you are a man, ask for a salary in the upper range

You won't be punished for it, unlike a women. Find out what the average salary for people in that position in your city, and ask for a salary in the upper range.

[elehhhhna]

37. "If you're prepard to make me an offer,

I'm prepared to negotiate! what DID YOU HAVE IN MIND?"

[cbdo2007]

39. Don't worry about it too much, just give them a range of what you think you

should be making and if the job falls in that range great and if it doesn't then you'll have to decide if you can live with the difference.

Be prepared though, if they come in under your range, to be able to explain to them why you think you're worth more. I've had all three of the following happen:

1) they offered me more than my range and I had to work harder to show them I was worth the extra
2) they offered me within my range and we really didn't need to do any negotiating
3) they offered me less than my range, I accepted the job, then told them I was worth XX,XXX more and these were the 5 reasons why, and they met me half way.

It really doesn't matter...if it's too little for you to survive and it's not a good opportunity then you shouldn't accept it anyways, on the other hand if it's too much and they find out after 3 months you aren't worth it, they'll just fire you and cut their losses.