I am more afraid of the GOP and the Koch's taking over the country than ISIS

[kimbutgar]

All this fear fear fear from idiots in the middle east who they say will enter this country are being watched and monitored by the NSA. The TSA and customs will be even more vigilant looking at those who want to enter the country.

But the damage to everyday Americans will be more devastating if the Kochs get their way and make the US a third world nation with the poor fighting amongst themselves for the crumbs. And the Gun nuts becoming vigilantes on the crazy train threatening minorities, gays, non Xtians and women.

That is my real fear. Very close to home are the domestic terrorists who watch Fox and believe their fellow Americans are the enemies instead of the monied Kochs and unregulated corporations who are really the ones screwing them over.

[gwheezie]

1. They are a worldwide threat

I think there is a rise in rightwing groups throughout the world. We almost had a global collapse of the economy because a handful of people wanted more money.

[YarnAddict]

2. Hyperbolic bullshit

JMHO

[Stuckinthebush]

5. ISIS or the GOP threat?

Which is hyperbolic in your opinion?

[YarnAddict]

17. I'm not afraid of ISIS,

but I'm not afraid of the Koch brothers, either.

David and Charles Koch are libertarians, not Tea Party lunatics. Libertarianism used to be considered to be not such a bad thing, by people who believe individuals should be left alone to love whom they please, to smoke whatever they please, to control their own healthcare decisions, etc. It's the "leave me alone, as long as what I do doesn't affect you" ideology. I don't have a big problem with libertarianism.

Furthermore, the Kochs do some good things with their $$. They fund cancer research, scholarships, colleges, hospitals, and probably a lot of other things. (I doubt that ISIS puts their considerable funds to such good use.) If you were diagnosed with cqncer, would you question where the research funds come from that give you a chance at a cure? If your child could afford to attend the college of his/her choice thanks to a Koch scholarship, would you insist that he/she turn it down?

This is another example: The DeVos family here in Michigan made a small fortune scamming desperate people with their Amway-Scamway pyramid scheme. But, if a child here in rural western Michigan is badly injured in an accident, or has a life-threatening illness, they will more than likely be life-flighted to the Helen DeVos Children's Hospital in Grand Rapids. Only a fool would stand on principle and refuse treatment because of the source of the funds.

The Koch brothers are just the bogeyman that Harry Reid invokes to rile up their base. Same thing the right wing does with "terrorism."

[MynameisBlarney]

19. The Kochs are subverting our Democracy.

And they pose a real and present danger to this nation as far as I'm concerned.
As for libertarians. They're a close second.

[YarnAddict]

21. No more so than ISIS

Seriously.

[MynameisBlarney]

24. How can you possibly think that is the case?

The Kochs are here and are actively working to turn this nation into a a fascist oligarchy.

[YarnAddict]

27. Yes, and they are countered

by gazillionaires like Tom Steyer. Probably neither side will get everything they want. There are bigger threats to me personally and to civilization in general that a bunch of rich guys throwing their money around.

[MynameisBlarney]

28. Ignore them at your peril

I choose not to keep my head in the sand.

[procon]

57. Under the dictionary entry for "oxymoron", please add this line:

There are bigger threats to me personally and to civilization in general that a bunch of rich guys throwing their money around.

[KansDem]

29. The Kochs are criminals...

Theft Of Oil From Reservations

Oppose The Future has the story of how Koch Oil was caught stealing oil from an Indian Reservation, reducing or removing the incomes of so many poor residents.

At some point in 1987, Thurmon Parton’s royalty checks for the three oil wells he inherited from his mother suddenly dropped from $3,000 a month to a little over $1,000. He and his sister, Arnita Gonzalez, members of the Caddo tribe, lived near Gracemont, Oklahoma, a town of a few hundred people on a small grid on the prairie.

Those modest royalties were the only source of income each of them had.

. . . What happened to Mr. Parton, Ms. Gonzales and Ms. Limpy had nothing to do with the wells or how they were producing. Their oil was being stolen. And all of the evidence pointed to the same culprit: Koch Oil, a division of Koch Industries.

This is an important story today because it helps us understand the nature of the Koch operation, which has so much influence over our politics and even livelihoods today. It also helps us understand why our government not only appears to be influenced, but often to be outright corrupted. From the story,

In the spring of 1989, a Special Committee on Investigations of the United States Senate’s Select Committee on Indian Affairs was formed to look into concerns that the path to tribal self-rule was impeded by fraud, corruption and mismanagement from all sides.

… Within a span of months, the Special Committee determined that “Koch [Oil] was engaged in systematic theft, stealing millions in Oklahoma alone.” BLM, even with a tip that Koch was behaving improperly, hadn’t done a thing.

Oppose The Future lays out the story and details of the oil theft. There is also story of the years following.

--more--
http://ourfuture.org/20120309/Koch_And_Native-American_Reservation_Oil_Theft_

But they only want their "fare share"...that's all of it

According to the transcript of the secretly recorded tape, Charles Koch was chuckling like a six-year old. Koch was having a hell of a laugh over pilfering a few hundred dollars' worth of oil from a couple of dirt-poor Indians on the Osage Reservation.

Why did Koch, worth about $3 billion at the time (now $20 billion) need to boost a few bucks from some Indian in a trailer home? Koch answered:

"I want my fair share – and that's all of it."

Now "all of it" includes a pipeline, the Keystone XL, which would run the world's filthiest oil, crude made from tar sands, down from Canada to his family's refinery on the Gulf Coast of Texas.

--more--
http://www.gregpalast.com/i-want-my-fair-share-and-thats-all-of-it-the-kochs-the-xl-pipeline/

[ashling]

32. "Libertarianism used to be considered to be not such a bad thing,"

by people who were ignorant of the scope of that ideology and the damage that it has done. Those who assume that "civil liberty" is the heart of Libertarianism do not fully appreciate the extreme antisocial animus of that whole "objectivist" paradigm.

[RunInCircles]

33. Are You Kidding Me?

The Koch's are a main source of funding for ALEC which is directly responsible for writing the laws that restrict medical access for women. They also were the main funders behind the anti obama care adds attempting to prevent access to health care for those without access. They are libertarian only in that rules should not apply to them. They don't believe we should have clean air or water if it interferes with their right to make a buck. Their companies have been responsible for many deaths cause "cost cutting". You are either a troll or completely ignorant of the facts. The Koch's do not want liberty or freedom or democracy they want power and money!

[cheapdate]

34. Maybe that's fine for you.

Not for me. The Kochs finance a powerful network of influential, connected, and organized groups that exist to disseminate dangerous ideology into every last corner of American life.

They use every possible tool to change how Americans conceptualize basic ideas of fairness, justice, civic duty, government, etc.

They've been very successful.

They've influenced the dismantling of public institutions at every level of society. They've empowered destructive forces while weakening the public 's power to regulate activities that have major impacts on everyone in society.

They're dangerous. They would abolish the Environmental Protection Agency, repeal the Endangered Species Act, sell public lands, allow mining in national parks, allow oil and gas drilling in ANWR, etc. They've convinced a big part of the public that these are good ideas.

These are very important issues for me.

[JEB]

37. Kochs are John Birchers.

[Enthusiast]

40. The Kochs have compromised the democracy.

They have used their enormous wealth to push for legislation that is against the interests of the American people and the environment.

They are a greater threat to the nation than ISIS.

I believe anyone that expresses support for the Koch Brothers should write their last word on DU. They should be history, as in TOMBSTONED.

[LiberalLoner]

51. Hear, hear!

[lark]

46. So you think it's fine that they donate hundred of millions of dollars to buy a legislature?

Do you agree with their stated goals are ending ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, IRS, EPA, FEC, overtime pay, welfare, food stamps, etc? Their dollars are real and are not supporting any goals a left winger would ever support. Of course if you are a right winger or libertarian I can see the charm.

[YarnAddict]

47. Stated goals?

If you have links, I will read them. Of course I would never support any of those things. I also don't think that there is any real likelihood of any of that happening, regardless of how much $$$ they throw into elections.

I also know that their "real dollars" are supporting some goals I do support. Cancer research, for one thing. Scholarships. Hospitals.

[lark]

48. Look at the platform David ran on as a libertarian.

It did include all those things. They are also the platform of the John Birch Society, which their father founded and of which they are members. You are the one claiming they are good for the process so you can take your time to locate and review the articles. Look at the fact that their companies are some of the most fined in the US for breaking environment laws. Check out the facts. ISIS is a straw man, more Middle East sectarianism, Kochs are an existential danger to our country.

[YarnAddict]

49. I never said

"they are _good_ for the process." I said I'm not afraid of them, and I'm not afraid of ISIS, either.

[lark]

54. Here's an article I just ran across, pretty enlightening.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/29/1333075/-The-Kochs-the-greatest-American-criminals-of-the-last-century?detail=email

[YarnAddict]

55. Bookmarked

for my after dinner reading. Thanks!

[mopinko]

73. do you think they should be able to buy a congressional seat where they own

timber and mining interests, but do not live?
that they should then be able to destroy pristine wilderness and dump mine tailings into lake superior?

no?
do you think there are rich people in every district that can beat them back?

i dont. that is why i am trying to scrape up nickels and dimes for a race that is a 400 miles from where i live, because the district is poor. but i drink that water way down here.
they dont pick on districts with a lot of rich dems. just districts where there are no deep pockets to fight them.
it isnt one big race all over the country. it is 400 races, most of them with no rich dems to fight.

http://kellywestlund.com

https://www.facebook.com/events/538654486278382/

[dotymed]

79. Curous,

how do you feel about citizens united?

[prairierose]

85. You missed this expose...????

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924

[grahamhgreen]

50. David Koch ran as the 'Libertarian' VP Candidate in 1980 on a platform of destroy all programs bene-

ficial to Americans. They also funded and rule the TEA baggers, as well as John Birch.

They have 80 billion and want it all.

The epitome of sociopathic.

They are attacking us everyday.

[Hissyspit]

61. You're defending the Kochs?? Jesus Fuck.

What in the fuck are you doing here?

[Rex]

63. "It's just rich people throwing around their money!"

Read it here on the DU first!

[Hissyspit]

64. "The Kochs do some good things with their money!"

You know, like drug lords and Mafiosos do. They love their neighborhood!

I'm in North Carolina. I see the ads the Koch Brothers money is funding every night, and the damage they're doing and going to do to people.

[Rex]

82. Yeah those wonderful 1% and their love for humanity!

What is sad, is seeing posters pretend the left has some sort of equal to the Koch brothers...ummm...no...no we don't.

[valerief]

68. The Koch empire is one big brain, govt, air, and water polluter. Don't spew your Koch love here! nt

[ladjf]

78. I strongly disagree with your assessment of the Koch brothers activities. nt

[Phlem]

9. ...

[rurallib]

15. please expand on this

It is so easy to say things like this, but tells us nothing.
What is your reasoning and justifications?

[YarnAddict]

18. See Reply #17

We can get all hair-on-fire, but in the end the Koch Brothers are just a couple of rich guys who are no more of a threat here than ISIS.

[MynameisBlarney]

20. LOLWUT?

I suppose that you, for one, will welcome our new fascist oligarch leaders.

[YarnAddict]

22. Um, no

because we will not ever have fascist oligarch leaders.

[MynameisBlarney]

25. Riiiiight

Because you say so.

LMAO

[Dustlawyer]

39. We already do! The use bribes called campaign donations to Republicans and Democrats alike.

They use their corporate TV and radio networks to shovel the propaganda. Wall Street, Koch's, and other billionaires and corporate titans determine who runs with enough money to win. The politicians represent the Donors, not the people.

[upaloopa]

3. I read American history now and then and I think

the periods around the 1890's and the 1930's were times when the oligarchs ran this country.
I try to see how the typical American lived then and don't find much. History seems to be about the wealthy.
We may be entering a new period where the oligarchs run everything again. To get us back to the 1890's and 1930's they have to do away with social programs which is what the right is trying to do.
There are more of us then there are of them and so far we are outspending them for 2014. I think it comes down to who has the insight and who wants it bad enough to fight for their position.

[BuelahWitch]

4. Yep, more likely to be killed by

a gun crazy Bubba Faux-brain on a Red Bull high than ISIS, Khorashian group or whatever terrorist-flavor-of-the-day.

[BlindTiresias]

6. You speak as if this is not already the case.

[Kalidurga]

52. We live in a dystopian society

and it seems most people are unaware of it.

[Omaha Steve]

7. K&R!

[aikoaiko]

8. Hear Hear,

[jtuck004]

10. Wouldn't it be funny if they already had and you were just fooling yourself? n.t

[byronius]

11. Worst GOP ever. Dangerous and End-Timey. They want to end this world.

You're so very correct.

[Initech]

12. The Koch Bros are economic terrorists and wealth hoarders.

[freshwest]

13. Thanks for making a thread of this. K&R

[BlancheSplanchnik]

14. absolutely. and decidedly so.

Much more dangerous, much wider influence, much more sophisticated, much better armed.

[geretogo]

16. I totally agree . The GOP is Americas greatest enemy . They are hell bent on making living in

America as close to a living hell as possible .

[Fred Sanders]

23. The true and real fear you feel is being buried under the wall to wall fear mongering about

a gang of a few thousand a half a world away. Should we not be more concerned about the domestic enemies?

And we would be if the major media were not being bought out by a windfall of ad cash.

[catbyte]

26. And how...

[KJG52]

30. ISIL, or ISIS or IS is not a threat to the US

The Koch brothers are a threat to our system of government, but they are just poster boys for a much larger Right Wing movement. Although to be honest with you, I am much more concerned about the five largest oil companies and banks than the Koch brothers. Seeing the Koch brothers defended in this thread is rather unsettling, Libertarianism is just a cloak worn over the inherent racism and fascism of the Koch brothers ideology.

[berni_mccoy]

31. The Koch brothers and their media machine has already feared domestic terrorists into violence

The two nut jobs from the Bundy ranch who killed the cops in Vegas.
The people who have attacked Planned Parenthood clinics or killed doctors in their own churches.
All the RW extremists who have committed or threatened acts of violence in this country...

they are all spurred on by the talking points emitted by the Koch's and their voice boxes (Rush, Hannity, etc).

[gordianot]

35. The two are directly related; ISIL is a direct outgrowth of cut throat (GOP) Capitalist policies.

The best representatives for American International Oligarchy are the GOP paid tools. Not that there is a lack of Oligarchy influence in the Democratic Party to cover all money interests some stylistic variation is tolerated that can at least address some of the needs of the local peasants. No such buffer is allowed the peasants in the foreign oil producing fields. With desperation some American locals and Middle Eastern (fill in the blank) resort to clinging to radical religion and guns. The main difference over there than here so far, a lot more killing has been going on in the oil rich fields making it easier for them to act out their aggression. I am not so certain that the Oligarchs were smart enough to plan this, they appear to me more reactive. This could still spin out of control here in the United States. The GOP is going to continue to make messes and someone will have to clean up the excess damage. We are fortunate enough today that some of those fronting the money such as the Koch's (Energy Tycoon) , Addelson (China gambling and vice king), and Murdoch (Propaganda Minister) have made themselves known. The real super wealthy avoid publicity they probably have well stocked bunkers with an escape plan.

[Feral Child]

36. I'm more afraid

of more Palin news than I am of IS(IS). IS is only the Government's newest Bogeyman; it's just the next excuse for more war.

The GOP/Koch Cartel is very scary indeed, though. Much more likely to do irreparable harm.

[SoapBox]

38. 100% agree.

The biggest threat here are these Puke, Bagger, KKKoch Domestic Terrorists and Radicals.

[Xolodno]

41. Lets get some stuff right...

Right wing oligarchs do not want to:

1. Eliminate Social Security, they want to privatize it in order for them to profit from it during Wall Streets boom and busts.

2. Get rid of Obamacare...just repeal the associated taxes with it so it goes broke. And then they "reform it" to where they get to line their pockets.

3. Endless War...just enough war to keep everyone preoccupied outside of their misery.

4. Get rid of higher education, they want it to cost more so were all in indentured servitude.

5. Control the world...only the resource rich and profitable nations.

6. Make abortion illegal...just keep a wedge issue going with the evangelical nuts.

7. Get rid of unemployment benefits...just reduce the time forcing the labor force to take even cheaper wages.

[gordianot]

45. Excellent summary, well stated.

The devil is in the details.

[Live and Learn]

56. +1 nt

[canoeist52]

66. Do we suppose the Koch's were Star Trek Ferengi fans?

"Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

"Once you have their money ... never give it back.
Never pay more for an acquisition than you have to.
Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.
A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. (From Enterprise, episode "Acquisition"; sloppy script-writing, as rule 6 (see above) was already given in DS9)
Keep your ears open.
Small print leads to large risk.
Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Greed is eternal.
Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.
A deal is a deal ... until a better one comes along.
A contract is a contract is a contract (but only between Ferengi).
A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all.
Satisfaction is not guaranteed.
Never place friendship above profit.
A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
Nothing is more important than your health--except for your money.
There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.
Never make fun of a Ferengi's mother ... insult something he cares about instead.
It never hurts to suck up to the boss.
War is good for business.
Peace is good for business.
She can touch your lobes but never your latinum.
Profit is its own reward.
Never confuse wisdom with luck.
Expand, or die.
Don't trust a man wearing a better suit than your own.
The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.
Females and finance don't mix.
Never ask when you can take. ...etc.

many more gems; http://www.sjtrek.com/trek/rules/

[mountain grammy]

74. yep that's it!

[guyfromla]

42. AMEN

[altetom]

43. Very interesting point of view.

Good read.

[kelliekat44]

44. That makes at least two of us. nt

[hifiguy]

53. Damn skippy!

[AlinPA]

58. I agree. Teabaggers and Kochs in control would be Facism.

[blkmusclmachine]

59. Anybody know about the American Fascist Movement? It says "The Third Way" on their webpage:

http://www.americanfascistmovement.com/index.html

[rhett o rick]

60. If you fear the GOP then you are being manipulated by the Power That Be.

Why do you think the Republican Party only runs clowns? Because the Power That Be want you to be happy to vote for conservative Democrats. The Powers That Be would love to have another idiot like Bush the Dim-Son be president, but will settle for Democrats that are owned by Wall Street.

[Raine]

62. Agree nt

[badtoworse]

65. Exaggerate much? Lighten up already.

[B Calm]

67. GOP is the party of Bozo's out to destroy social security! Damn right I fear them!

[baldguy]

69. All the more reason to vote for Democrats at every opportunity.

The "both parties are the same" idiots are just as bad as the Teabaggers.

[CaptainTruth]

70. I feel the same way.

The things that threaten us the most are the Koch (& big money in general) takeover of our government, climate change denial, out of control police, & of course the GOP.

ISIS has killed two Americans. I saw an estimate that 13,000 Americans will die (who could have been saved by medical care) in states that refuse to expand Medicaid under the ADA. I believe it is Republicans who are blocking the Medicaid expansion in all those states (please correct me if I'm wrong) ... so that would mean ISIS has killed 2 Americans & Republicans have killed 13,000 (just with actions related to the ADA).

Do the math ...

And morans vote for these people ...

[raouldukelives]

71. Huge K&R and an Amen to that. nt

[WillyT]

72. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[Initech]

75. Three words that are a far bigger threat to us than Isis ever was or could be:

Unsustainable income inequality.

The billionaires and trillionaires have done far more damage to our country than Isis ever could.

[Helen Borg]

76. Country has already been taken over, folks.

...

[kimbutgar]

77. Then it's up to us to vote out as many of these GOP rats to slow them down in November.

We can resist them and hold them back until we get control of all three branches. I can dream and vote.

[Helen Borg]

80. Problem is that corporate money has bought them all...

Not just GOP... They buy both R and D.

[kimbutgar]

81. But we know the R's are more evil than the D's

At least the D's want to help regular people unlike the rethugs who want people to suffer, stay sick and go hungry.

[Arugula Latte]

83. Or at least D's tend to say they want to help regular people ...

but that's often just in theory, not in practice. There are still a few good ones, like my senator (Merkley).

[Helen Borg]

84. Perhaps, at the local level...

But in the end, at the Federal level they do what their buyers want...