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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 07:49 AM Sep 2014

Time for the U.S. to Dump the Word "Homeland"

http://www.alternet.org/time-us-dump-word-homeland

It's time to do away with the word "homeland."

As the situation with ISIS continues to escalate, and as worries about terrorist attacks on US soil continue to spread, we're hearing the term "homeland" mentioned more and more.

Ever since it first stole the spotlight with the creation of the Department of Homeland Security in the months after 9/11, the term "homeland" has become ingrained in US society.

But, as Chris Matthews pointed out on his MSNBC show recently, there's something strange and creepy about the term.

Matthews said that, "It's a term used by the neocons, they love it. It suggests something strange to me. Like who else are we defending except America? Why don't you just say 'America'? Why doesn't [Obama] say we defended against attacks against this country? As if we're facing some existential Armageddon threat from these people. Do you buy the phrase 'homeland'? I never heard it growing up, never heard it in my adulthood. It's a new word. Why are we using it? Is there some other place we're defending? What are we talking about when we say 'homeland'? What's it about?"
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Time for the U.S. to Dump the Word "Homeland" (Original Post) xchrom Sep 2014 OP
I agree vt_native Sep 2014 #1
Yes, way too many Nazi-ish connotations. k&r, nt appal_jack Sep 2014 #2
Pisses me off liberalmike27 Sep 2014 #43
Agreed I hate the term "boots on the ground" It is design to remove the human out of the action of Heather MC Sep 2014 #48
Women serve too--"military personnel" or "military members" is a better choice, I think. MADem Sep 2014 #103
I agree-too Third Reich to me. Lifelong Protester Sep 2014 #80
totally agree. probably came from dhs. eom ellenfl Sep 2014 #82
It's Hitleresque. nt Snotcicles Sep 2014 #129
"Heimatland" Mira Sep 2014 #13
Yep, my exact thoughts too! Homeland is a very creepy term to use. I never understood why RKP5637 Sep 2014 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author Fla Dem Sep 2014 #90
As soon as I heard the term used, that's the thought that came to mind. Hate the term Homeland. Fla Dem Sep 2014 #91
Bush=Nazi billhicks76 Sep 2014 #92
It sometimes seems that way. silverweb Sep 2014 #109
Bush Sr Puppets billhicks76 Sep 2014 #151
Remember this from Cabaret? Control-Z Sep 2014 #111
Chilling. The awesome power of government propaganda. trof Sep 2014 #118
So chilling. Control-Z Sep 2014 #133
One of the best movies ever!!! And that scene was so chilling when I saw the movie japple Sep 2014 #124
The first time I heard the term "homeland" Control-Z Sep 2014 #141
One of my favorite scenes. bvf Sep 2014 #150
Sounds too much like the word motherland used by Hitler for Germany. . B Calm Sep 2014 #3
Try "fatherland" used for Germany brush Sep 2014 #10
The "Motherland" was/is Russia: WinkyDink Sep 2014 #53
Yes, it reminds me of "Mother Russia." lady lib Sep 2014 #78
I'd like to know who exactly in the shrubministration trusty elf Sep 2014 #4
Actually, it originated during the Clinton Admimistration onenote Sep 2014 #110
It was, sadly, Congressional Democrats who pushed for it. Recursion Sep 2014 #132
This again? Homeland is a fine word. aikoaiko Sep 2014 #5
For Native Peoples, perhaps PeoViejo Sep 2014 #7
For those of us who were BORN here, it's a perfect descriptor. n/t cherokeeprogressive Sep 2014 #25
It is taken from the term "Heimat," which is the German word for homeland. JDPriestly Sep 2014 #107
Doesn't seem so creepy to me... cherokeeprogressive Sep 2014 #121
That is because you are not familiar with WWII history and have not listened to recordings of JDPriestly Sep 2014 #126
That you know my interest in or knowledge of history based on my fear or hatred (or lack thereof)... cherokeeprogressive Sep 2014 #154
The 'native' people migrated here, too. toby jo Sep 2014 #35
Not if one knows its historic connections. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #55
As is Ministry in place of Department. Six of one, half a dozen of the other... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #66
No it's not. WHEN CRABS ROAR Sep 2014 #131
Chris Matthews stonecutter357 Sep 2014 #6
Quit Watching a While Back liberalmike27 Sep 2014 #45
I think it's appropriate. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #8
I dislike it, but it implies American interests are both at home and abroad. HereSince1628 Sep 2014 #9
I agree, kinda clunky and . . . brush Sep 2014 #11
It's totally creepy. I believe there is some underlying deliberate intent, dog whistle maybe? GoneFishin Sep 2014 #12
I completely agree with you. stillwaiting Sep 2014 #14
Exactly. pablo_marmol Sep 2014 #86
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer RVN VET Sep 2014 #40
I don't like it because it suggests "We are one voice...all working to make our country far better.. BlueJazz Sep 2014 #15
Another quick, cheap term Scalded Nun Sep 2014 #16
We're hearing it because of W, he put it into our minds and lives. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2014 #17
It's much worse than that malaise Sep 2014 #18
+1.... KoKo Sep 2014 #26
+1 leftstreet Sep 2014 #68
... Arugula Latte Sep 2014 #84
! +1 INDEED ! . . . . .n/t annabanana Sep 2014 #117
I can never get that scene from the movie "Cabaret" out of my mind rurallib Sep 2014 #19
Agree.. I think of that scene every time I hear the word "homeland" mountain grammy Sep 2014 #64
Same here jberryhill Sep 2014 #65
'Homeland' does sound a lot like 'Deutschland' fascism. yallerdawg Sep 2014 #79
I hated it from the first time they used it. Wished then that they'd shraby Sep 2014 #20
1000 x agree! Mopar151 Sep 2014 #58
Long since past time bread_and_roses Sep 2014 #21
But we keep the dragnet style spying on every American, right??? nt Romulox Sep 2014 #22
Leaves the United out of United States grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #23
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! newfie11 Sep 2014 #24
Start tallying up the deaths we have caused since 2001... Moostache Sep 2014 #30
You are right newfie11 Sep 2014 #41
Creepy from the start Android3.14 Sep 2014 #27
It has made me nauseous from the first time I heard the word. PeoViejo Sep 2014 #28
Yes, it's past time, but it's not going to happen. merrily Sep 2014 #29
This is what I was thinking, they now have a whole department with "homeland" logosoco Sep 2014 #36
I don't know why Bushco chose it, but it reminds me of "fatherland." merrily Sep 2014 #42
I don't think Bushco did choose it. ieoeja Sep 2014 #46
Did the 1998 proposed Patriot Act use the term "homeland?" merrily Sep 2014 #59
I don't know. n/t ieoeja Sep 2014 #60
Remember, Buscho got a Homeland Security Act passed, too. merrily Sep 2014 #63
First used in a Clinton Presidential directive in 1998 onenote Sep 2014 #112
Interesting. merrily Sep 2014 #119
'Department of War' got renamed eventually Newsjock Sep 2014 #76
They could rename it Department of National Security (n/t) thesquanderer Sep 2014 #93
That is the Department of Defense. logosoco Sep 2014 #94
The reason the two departments are not redundant... thesquanderer Sep 2014 #95
And the National Guard - not the Homeland Guard. colorado_ufo Sep 2014 #138
K&R for EXPOSURE! ReRe Sep 2014 #31
Just add an r... adirondacker Sep 2014 #32
only one place such a scam can end MisterP Sep 2014 #108
LOL! Never saw that one. Sognefjord Sep 2014 #116
Now THAT would be appropriate Art_from_Ark Sep 2014 #125
I agree 1000%. femmocrat Sep 2014 #33
It is ingrained in me that the "bad guys" use that term. Bonhomme Richard Sep 2014 #34
When "homeland" first was used, I googled it on the web. cheyanne Sep 2014 #37
"Homeland" is a PNAC term. summerschild Sep 2014 #38
Yep, PNAC used the term in their 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' document. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #115
Never bought the term raindaddy Sep 2014 #39
The word makes me crazy proReality Sep 2014 #44
The "homeland" is an abstraction indicating a "new" US where the "old" constitution is dead. whereisjustice Sep 2014 #47
+1 F4lconF16 Sep 2014 #75
+1 -an excellent analysis nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #96
It was a very deliberate choice of term by BushCo. BlueMTexpat Sep 2014 #49
Yes. CrispyQ Sep 2014 #50
My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. Thomas Paine Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #51
WAAAY past time to dump this Fascist term. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #52
Tweety's right: "the Homeland" has a creepy, fascist tone to it. marble falls Sep 2014 #54
I am absolutely with you on this one!! Peacetrain Sep 2014 #56
Hate it hate it hate it. colorado_ufo Sep 2014 #57
The very first time I heard that term used just after 9/11 gave me the creeps. Conjured up Nazi 2banon Sep 2014 #62
There's a reason the neocons love it. Marr Sep 2014 #67
Nonsense. It's just a word. nt Dreamer Tatum Sep 2014 #69
I hate it with all it's fascist connotations. I hate it right along with Ed Suspicious Sep 2014 #70
Straight Out Of The Third Reich colsohlibgal Sep 2014 #71
I hate the term too but wonder if it was a lame attempt at mimicing the name of BumRushDaShow Sep 2014 #72
Yes please. blackspade Sep 2014 #73
Definitely. salib Sep 2014 #74
I have never approved of this term Gothmog Sep 2014 #77
It's always been creepy as hell. winter is coming Sep 2014 #81
It is... onyourleft Sep 2014 #83
I despise that word and cringe whenever I hear it Duer 157099 Sep 2014 #85
Fatherland, Motherland, Homeland.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #87
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #88
I've hated word since the first time I heard it... Volaris Sep 2014 #89
Bush's grandfather, Prescott, is a convicted of treason due to funding the Nazi war machine. lark Sep 2014 #97
It's always been a creepy word. Reminds me of the Nazis. nt valerief Sep 2014 #98
It beats the fatherland jonjensen Sep 2014 #99
I despise the term "homeland." It makes me think of Adolf Hitler. Vinca Sep 2014 #100
I've hated it ever since they started using it right after 9/11. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2014 #101
I also wonder about the "Homeguard" in the old Babylon 5 tv show... cascadiance Sep 2014 #102
I never liked it either. Scott6113 Sep 2014 #104
I never liked it either. Scott6113 Sep 2014 #105
Homeland is a translation from the German word: Heimate. JDPriestly Sep 2014 #106
It's also a translation from the Swedish word "hemland". cherokeeprogressive Sep 2014 #155
I doubt that the Bush administration pulled that word out of the bag because they had heard JDPriestly Sep 2014 #157
There's nothing intrinsically wrong War Horse Sep 2014 #113
Does that mean the title of the TV show has to change, too? onenote Sep 2014 #114
Thank you!! I have said this for years!! knitter4democracy Sep 2014 #120
I've loathed it from the very moment it first appeared. Disgusting propaganda word. scarletwoman Sep 2014 #122
All neocons are fascist rat bastards sulphurdunn Sep 2014 #123
I'd rather we simply stop wars of profit for the MIC using TERRORISTSTS as the tool of fear. FlatStanley Sep 2014 #127
Meh...This board sure does have a nose sometimes for hopeless causes. BeyondGeography Sep 2014 #128
In days past, it would have been National Security. colorado_ufo Sep 2014 #136
Except the term was introduced by the Clinton Admin. pre-9/11, noted upthread BeyondGeography Sep 2014 #139
I'd substitute Motherland...because then we could have the best national anthem... DreamGypsy Sep 2014 #130
We would not have the best "national anthem"; we would have - perhaps the best - "motherland anthem. colorado_ufo Sep 2014 #137
Hey, I'd be willing to toss out... DreamGypsy Sep 2014 #140
Wir sprechen Deutsch. blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #134
I agree Turbineguy Sep 2014 #135
Yes, please. Blue_In_AK Sep 2014 #142
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2014 #143
It has fascist connotations. N/t roamer65 Sep 2014 #144
MOTHERLAND TheVisitor Sep 2014 #145
I still think we should call it the *K-GWB* lastlib Sep 2014 #146
hate it. spanone Sep 2014 #147
+1 951-Riverside Sep 2014 #148
This message was self-deleted by its author Kablooie Sep 2014 #149
Time for the US to Dump tiptonic Sep 2014 #152
How did it take him 13 years to question this? mattclearing Sep 2014 #153
At one time Native Americans were immigrants, and some of us are well blended. gordianot Sep 2014 #156
Agreed. It's basically a prerequisite for xenophobia. n/t mattclearing Sep 2014 #158

liberalmike27

(2,479 posts)
43. Pisses me off
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:09 AM
Sep 2014

Reminds me of Bush, and of the Nazis. How about "America," or "Our country," or "the country." Any will do.

Toss "Boots on the Ground" on the rubble pile too. "Soldiers," or "Troops," would be great, or "enlisted men." Anything that implies they're actually human would be great, rather than something you lace up and put on your feet.

It's weird how everyone is getting sick of Bush "swaggerisms" at about the same time. I just about puked about two weeks ago, upon hearing them. This whole thing feels like 2003 deja vu.

 

Heather MC

(8,084 posts)
48. Agreed I hate the term "boots on the ground" It is design to remove the human out of the action of
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:24 AM
Sep 2014

Sending men and women into a battle. at least "hand to hand combat" still had a human element included.

They choose these words carefully as part of the marketing technique to get us to go along with this bullshit

MADem

(135,425 posts)
103. Women serve too--"military personnel" or "military members" is a better choice, I think.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 03:53 PM
Sep 2014

As for HOMELAND, we probably won't dump the term until the SHOWTIME series wraps up.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
61. Yep, my exact thoughts too! Homeland is a very creepy term to use. I never understood why
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:53 AM
Sep 2014

simply America or US was not used.

Response to vt_native (Reply #1)

Fla Dem

(23,691 posts)
91. As soon as I heard the term used, that's the thought that came to mind. Hate the term Homeland.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:33 PM
Sep 2014

The USA, United States, or America, works great for me.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
151. Bush Sr Puppets
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 01:15 AM
Sep 2014

Intelligence agencies run our government now according to their own analysts. They probably like people thinking that too as they rule by fear. But Hubris had a way of evening things out eventually.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
111. Remember this from Cabaret?
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:22 PM
Sep 2014


The sun on the meadow is summery warm
The stag in the forest runs free
But gathered together to greet the storm
Tomorrow belongs to me

The branch on the linden is leafy and green
The Rhine gives its gold to the sea (Gold to the sea)
But somewhere a glory awaits unseen
Tomorrow belongs to me

The babe in his cradle is closing his eyes
The blossom embraces the bee
But soon says the whisper, arise, arise
Tomorrow belongs to me


Now Fatherland, Fatherland, show us the sign
Your children have waited to see
The morning will come
When the world is mine
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs to me

Now Fatherland, Fatherland, show us the sign
Your children have waited to see
The morning will come
When the world is mine
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs to me

Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs to me

Now Fatherland, Fatherland, show us the sign
Your children have waited to see
The morning will come
When the world is mine
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs
Tomorrow belongs to me

Tomorrow belongs to me

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
133. So chilling.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:07 PM
Sep 2014

The first time I heard the song was on a soundtrack (I hadn't seen the movie yet) and I thought it was one of the most beautiful songs I'd every heard. It took me a moment, or two, to realize what they were saying (singing). I was pretty young at the time, 12, maybe 13 years old. So I forgive myself. Lol. But my initial reaction to the song coupled with my delayed understanding brought the meaning of propaganda home to me in a way I had never grasped before.

Btw, the song was not written for the movie. It was written years before.

japple

(9,833 posts)
124. One of the best movies ever!!! And that scene was so chilling when I saw the movie
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 07:55 PM
Sep 2014

back in the 70s when it was first issued. It is even more frightening today. My favorite number is Money, Money.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
141. The first time I heard the term "homeland"
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:49 PM
Sep 2014

in reference to the US that scene and the song played over and over in my mind. I really hate the term.

You are so right about Cabaret. What a great movie! Money, Money is one of my favorites. It is the one song, to me, where Liza sounds most like her mother. The Cabaret soundtrack is one I've always enjoyed all the way through. No skipping over a song or two not to my liking like I do with some.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
150. One of my favorite scenes.
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 01:00 AM
Sep 2014

Chilling. Somewhere in there a black dog emerges and heads up the aisle.

Got to see this again.

trusty elf

(7,394 posts)
4. I'd like to know who exactly in the shrubministration
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 07:58 AM
Sep 2014

decided it was a good idea to use that shitty word, and why.




onenote

(42,714 posts)
110. Actually, it originated during the Clinton Admimistration
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:15 PM
Sep 2014

See Presidential Decision Directive 62: Protection Against Unconventional Threats to the Homeland and Americans Overseas" dated May 22, 1998.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
132. It was, sadly, Congressional Democrats who pushed for it.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:00 PM
Sep 2014

Both the concept of the department and the name. The * admin resisted it for a while, saying it would simply add another layer of bureaucracy that didn't need to exist.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
121. Doesn't seem so creepy to me...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 07:21 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Homeland

homeland (n.) Look up homeland at Dictionary.com1660s, from home (n.) + land (n.). Old English hamland meant "enclosed pasture."

In Swedish, it's "hemland".

Words are what you make of 'em I guess. To me, it's simply the country I was born in.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
126. That is because you are not familiar with WWII history and have not listened to recordings of
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:22 PM
Sep 2014

Hitler's speeches. It's understandable.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
154. That you know my interest in or knowledge of history based on my fear or hatred (or lack thereof)...
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 08:07 AM
Sep 2014

Of a single word, is not a good bet.

You can tie a word to whichever historical period you want but that doesn't mean you've pegged the "origin" of the word.

You go on imagining what you want, I'll go ahead seeing it as closer to "hemland" from the Swedish than anything else. You'll keep being haunted by a word, I won't.

 

toby jo

(1,269 posts)
35. The 'native' people migrated here, too.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:54 AM
Sep 2014

I'm no "visitor".

The holy land is everywhere right now here today for every one on this earth.

* Dislike the word.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
66. As is Ministry in place of Department. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 11:31 AM
Sep 2014

As is Ministry in place of Department. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
9. I dislike it, but it implies American interests are both at home and abroad.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:18 AM
Sep 2014

In our view, and that of many other peoples, this is Planet USA. And, by God!, we KNOW this glorious outcome started in the homeland given to us by god.

It's necessary because on Planet USA, there is THE HOMELAND, where you dodge taxes, and there are the 'Other lands' some where you exploit tax shelters, others where you exploit very cheap labor.

If you don't realize where you are dodging and where you are exploiting you stand to lose a shitload of money.



brush

(53,791 posts)
11. I agree, kinda clunky and . . .
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:27 AM
Sep 2014

Too close to "fatherland" used by the Nazis — but maybe that was the aim of the fascists . . . er ah . . . neocons who coined the term.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
12. It's totally creepy. I believe there is some underlying deliberate intent, dog whistle maybe?
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:28 AM
Sep 2014

I can usually read the intent behind this type of loaded language. But in this case I can only guess that it is designed to breed nationalism and make more acceptable US aggression overseas and domestic.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
14. I completely agree with you.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:39 AM
Sep 2014

Language is powerful (ask Frank Luntz). The word "homeland" is being used more and more to manipulate and control the masses.

I have little doubt.

The fact that it reminds so many of us of a certain fascist empire is probably a bonus to those who are choosing to implement this word in the media to such a large extent.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
86. Exactly.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:06 PM
Sep 2014

Naomi Wolf discusses the psychology involved in the use of this descriptor in 'The End of America'.

Beyond creepy, IMO, and into the bone-chilling zone.
 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
15. I don't like it because it suggests "We are one voice...all working to make our country far better..
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:45 AM
Sep 2014

...than it is at the present time."

Yeah right...half the population hates the other half. We have a lousy minimum wage, a large share of the population is in jail.
We don't have a decent health care system. Our infrastructure is going south because of debt. Our mass transit sucks. The rich
have totally bought the politicians who (from their actions) hate the middle class and poor. The wage disparity is ridiculous.

Fatherland ?? You've GOT to be kidding.
More like "Fuck you..I've got mine" Land.

Scalded Nun

(1,236 posts)
16. Another quick, cheap term
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:47 AM
Sep 2014

Manipulation of the masses is made easier when you have quick, catchy terms that do not require much thought and that can be used to stoke fear and feigned patriotism.

Motherland, Fatherland, Mother Russia.

I say we stick with Disneyland.

malaise

(269,056 posts)
18. It's much worse than that
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:53 AM
Sep 2014

Last edited Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:06 PM - Edit history (2)

It assumes that only Americans have a homeland and it's not as if anybody is invading America. Americans and their lackeys are actually bombing other peoples' homelands.so that they can continue looting resources. What's more anyone who resists is now a terrorist.
Scary shite indeed!

rurallib

(62,423 posts)
19. I can never get that scene from the movie "Cabaret" out of my mind
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:53 AM
Sep 2014

at the very end when one Hitler youth starts singing "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" in a restaurant and most of the others pick it up.



It sent a chill down my spine then. Whenever I hear the term "Homeland" this song comes into my mind and I get that chill. I almost tear up it scares me so much.

Heard Hartmann riff on this last week. He is so right

mountain grammy

(26,624 posts)
64. Agree.. I think of that scene every time I hear the word "homeland"
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 11:13 AM
Sep 2014

We have an event called "Constitution Week" in our town. It's supposed to 'celebrate' the signing of the Constitution.. a real Festivus. There are lots of "patriotic' happenings including right wing speakers every night, with the featured speaker being Michael (heck of a job, Brownie) Brown, you know, because he's an expert on the Constitution. This was the 3rd year. Several of us have objected to this fake patriotic display of right wing "values" promoted by these speakers and have been told we just don't love America and to READ THE CONSTITUTION. This year I avoided the whole mess, except for the lovely 20 minute fire works display on the last night.

Every national holiday is an excuse for extreme patriotism here. My husband is a Vietnam vet who sometimes marches in the Memorial Day parade in remembrance of his lost buddies, but too much of the display, in his opinion, is right wing, military brainwashing. Our patriotic town often reminds me of this scene in Cabaret.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
79. 'Homeland' does sound a lot like 'Deutschland' fascism.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 01:14 PM
Sep 2014

While the world watches, we elect our leaders who then do all kinds of things in the name of our security.

Wasn't our President awarded the Nobel Peace Prize?

"Life is a cabaret, old chum..."

shraby

(21,946 posts)
20. I hated it from the first time they used it. Wished then that they'd
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:00 AM
Sep 2014

drop it and go back to "the country".

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
21. Long since past time
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:09 AM
Sep 2014

it's creepy and fascistic - not to mention imperialist, as those who use it stole this land from the first peoples.

newfie11

(8,159 posts)
24. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:12 AM
Sep 2014

I cringe every time I hear that word. To refer to America with this word seems like comparing us to Hitlers Germany.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
30. Start tallying up the deaths we have caused since 2001...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:29 AM
Sep 2014

You think that because we are less specific in our targeting and death bringing that there is much moral distinction left between the foreign policy of the Bush Doctrine era and Nazi Germany?

National Socialism rejected the concept of class struggle, opposed ideas of equality and international solidarity, and sought to defend private property. Sound at all familiar yet?

You think there's much distinction between 'Lebensraum' ("living space&quot and "defending freedom"?

History is not going to view it differently...we are a diffuse version of the scourge of the 20th century and ultimately, we will be judged accordingly.

newfie11

(8,159 posts)
41. You are right
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:00 AM
Sep 2014

Just going through the news posts on here today is depressing as hell.
All the innocents we have killed in the last 13 years is horrific. We are still at.

Ultimately it's all about making more money and the MIC.

This will not end well and 90% or more Americans are clueless.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
28. It has made me nauseous from the first time I heard the word.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:24 AM
Sep 2014

Operation Paperclip coming to fruition.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
29. Yes, it's past time, but it's not going to happen.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:28 AM
Sep 2014

Just changing the name of Homeland Security would cost a small fortune. But, that alone is not why Congress will not do it. Every time they talk about IS, they use "homeland," to hammer, er, home the point that IS might hit your home, with you and your family in it. (It must have tested high with focus groups. Lord, I am so sick of being marketed to by my govt--and on my dime, to boot.)

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
36. This is what I was thinking, they now have a whole department with "homeland"
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:55 AM
Sep 2014

in the title.

I wonder what they could re-name it? I always sort of thought the things the DHS cover were covered in other departments. To me they sort of started this and gave it that name to imply the US was somehow superior than other places on the planet.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
46. I don't think Bushco did choose it.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:22 AM
Sep 2014

The Patriot ACT was first proposed in 1998. Then Vice President Al Gore chaired the committee that wrote the bill. But with a Democrat in the White House, Republicans put on their paranoid, anti-government alter ego and shot it down.

After 9/11 with a Republican in the White House, they revereted to their authoritarian, nationalistic selves and passed it without hesitation. Still paranoid, of course, but about foreigners who were different rather than Americans who were different.

That said, it certainly is possible that Bushco altered the bill in certain ways, possibly even renaming the department. But I have never heard that with any certainty.


onenote

(42,714 posts)
112. First used in a Clinton Presidential directive in 1998
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:25 PM
Sep 2014

See Presidential Decision Directive 62: Protection Against Unconventional Threats to the Homeland and Americans Overseas" dated May 22, 1998.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
119. Interesting.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 06:45 PM
Sep 2014

Until today, I just assumed, without even thinking, that it was Dimson, even though one of my favorite bits of advice is, "Assume nothing."

Thanks!

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
94. That is the Department of Defense.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:59 PM
Sep 2014

Like I said, the DHS is sort of the department of redundancy department!

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
95. The reason the two departments are not redundant...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 03:05 PM
Sep 2014

...is that the Department of Defense is charged with affairs outside our borders, and the Department of Homeland Security (which I would prefer were called Department of National Security) is charged with affairs inside our borders. It's kind of similar to the distinction between the CIA and the FBI.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
31. K&R for EXPOSURE!
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:30 AM
Sep 2014

I vote for this. Dump it, now. NO one likes it. It creeps everyone out. This isn't a "Homeland", this is America. Face it, Intel god on high: it didn't catch on. It just reminds us all of the our enemies of the past, i.e. Hitler's "Fatherland."

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
33. I agree 1000%.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:40 AM
Sep 2014

I despise that word. It smacks of uber-patriotism and neocon B.S. I refuse to say it.

cheyanne

(733 posts)
37. When "homeland" first was used, I googled it on the web.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:57 AM
Sep 2014

The only references to the word were in cases where people had lost their territory, like the Palestinians. Only people exiled from their country had a homeland.

Just an addition to the fear mongering of Bush and cohorts.

summerschild

(725 posts)
38. "Homeland" is a PNAC term.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:57 AM
Sep 2014

The term came in with PNAC. My old files are not on this machine, but I believe I would find the use of the word very prevalent in the PNAC days 98 and forward. I believe it is in some of the rhetoric introducing and surrounding the Bush doctrine, and it was in the PNAC plans for perpetual war as laid out in their "need a Pearl Harbor" letter. The only other place I've heard the term on a national scale was The Sound of Music - and guess what homeland that was talking about!

My skin crawls every time I hear it used.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
115. Yep, PNAC used the term in their 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' document.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:33 PM
Sep 2014

Luckily Information Clearing House still has the documents available.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

ESTABLISH FOUR CORE MISSIONS
for U.S. military forces:

defend the American homeland;

fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars;

perform the “constabulary” duties associated with shaping the security environment in
critical regions;

transform U.S. forces to exploit the “revolution in military affairs;”



Another interesting tidbit is that per Wikipedia, Peggy Noonan, of all people, objected to Bush's use of the term.

In the United States, the Department of Homeland Security was created soon after the 11 September 2001, terrorist attacks, as a means to centralize response to various threats. In a June 2002 column, Republican consultant and speechwriter Peggy Noonan expressed the hope that the Bush administration would change the name of the department, writing that, "The name Homeland Security grates on a lot of people, understandably. Homeland isn't really an American word, it's not something we used to say or say now".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
39. Never bought the term
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:57 AM
Sep 2014

It feels like contrived propaganda.. What's more, I've never heard the term in reference to our country in public conversation. The only place I ever hear it is in in the media.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
47. The "homeland" is an abstraction indicating a "new" US where the "old" constitution is dead.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:23 AM
Sep 2014

It is a reference to a high order police state. If they called it "Dept. of National Security" etc, that would imply the agency is subject to the usual national laws we all have to follow. Calling it "Homeland" is a way to disassociate the concrete laws and civil rights of citizens of the US for some higher purpose that mere citizens cannot be trusted to understand.

For example: "It's OK that we tortured him because it was necessary to protect the homeland/motherland/fatherland".

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
75. +1
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 12:54 PM
Sep 2014

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It signals a shift in our thinking where the homeland is more important than the citizens.

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)
49. It was a very deliberate choice of term by BushCo.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:25 AM
Sep 2014

The word sent chills down my spine from the very first time that I heard it.

It still does and always will.

colorado_ufo

(5,734 posts)
57. Hate it hate it hate it.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:41 AM
Sep 2014

We managed to live successfully as a country for hudreds of years without it, and we don't need it now. We used to use the word "national," as in National Anthem. It's a wonder they haven't renamed it "Homeland Anthem." It used to be "national security." What about "national debt?" I believe the PNAC (read: "Karl Rove&quot decided to put this "Homeland" into use to subconscously create more fear into people and thus more manipulation. It was no longer our "nation" that we would defend, it was our "homes," as if any enemy was standing right outside our doors. It helps to underly a sense of emergency.

From the first, I saw it as it was meant to be: Marketing 101, to sell their agenda to a shocked people. It's all manipulation.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
62. The very first time I heard that term used just after 9/11 gave me the creeps. Conjured up Nazi
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:56 AM
Sep 2014

Germany to my ears.

What followed was a fruition of almost everything I grew up knowing about Nazi Germany sans extermination of "undesirables".

Watching the Congressional/interagency/Government committee hearings aimed at forming "Homeland Security" Department only served to verify my fears of a fascists/totalitarian state in the making. It happened very quickly, and right under the nose of everyone with the media promoting and cheering it on.

It was naive of me to expect Obama to have the power to return/restore our nation to something resembling a democratic system of governance.

He would have needed a Democratically controlled Congress to be able to accomplish that feat, and it would have been necessary to be seen as a priority..

oh wait.. the financial crises - (who knew?!) and then oh yeah... oh never mind.



 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
67. There's a reason the neocons love it.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 11:33 AM
Sep 2014

It's jingoistic and inspires fear by implying the US is the only place you can be safe. I thought it was creepy when Matthews was still excitedly chirping it-- I expect most of us did.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
70. I hate it with all it's fascist connotations. I hate it right along with
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 12:20 PM
Sep 2014

the term troops. Troops are nameless, faceless, mindless, automatons fighting at the behest of the leaders in defense of the homeland.

Good lord, the words they use are evocative.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
71. Straight Out Of The Third Reich
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 12:22 PM
Sep 2014

Dubya's roots go back there, his grandfather Prescott had a few dealings with Nazi Germany.

BumRushDaShow

(129,106 posts)
72. I hate the term too but wonder if it was a lame attempt at mimicing the name of
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 12:26 PM
Sep 2014

the UK's equivalent - the "Home Office" (a ministry that basically has the same function).

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
81. It's always been creepy as hell.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 01:32 PM
Sep 2014

To me, the emotional content associated with the word "home" says, "Propaganda word. Will now be feeding you bullshit."

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
87. Fatherland, Motherland, Homeland....
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:16 PM
Sep 2014

Next up: Familyland.

Sounds like a theme park with really boring rides depicting suburbia.

Here's dad mowing the lawn, here's mom putting a pie in the window to cool, here's Jane playing with her dolls, and here's little Timmy jerking off in his treehouse to National Geographic.

Volaris

(10,272 posts)
89. I've hated word since the first time I heard it...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:29 PM
Sep 2014

It's a propaganda creation, developed by people smart enough to know it, to be wielded against those NOT smart enough to know it.

lark

(23,105 posts)
97. Bush's grandfather, Prescott, is a convicted of treason due to funding the Nazi war machine.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 03:15 PM
Sep 2014

This is a Nazi word, no worder little Georgie like it so much. It was used all the time by dear old granpa.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
101. I've hated it ever since they started using it right after 9/11.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 03:44 PM
Sep 2014

It has a really creepy Third Reich vibe. Die Heimat. Das Vaterland. Ick.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
102. I also wonder about the "Homeguard" in the old Babylon 5 tv show...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 03:53 PM
Sep 2014

If you look at this page, it describes them as a paramilitary xenophobic group were the foundations of the fascist takeover of Earth...

http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Homeguard

And as noted earlier on DU, there's been a concern by many including the show creator himself, J. Michael Straczynski, that because Rove and Bush "loved" this show as one of their favorites, that these entities in this show served as a template to what would become our security state here in this country during Bush's time...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IanDB1/1747

J. Michael Straczynski on usenet's babylon 5 group personally commented on comments made by Karl Rove himself to show star Bruce Boxleitner on a usenet post that is shown on this page (Have a hard time locating the original usenet post now at this time).

http://www.scottsmovies.com/comments/c021212.html

...
In one of his posts, Straczynski recounted a conversation he had had with fellow B5 producer Doug Netter, who in turn recounted a conversation he had had with B5 star Bruce Boxleitner. It seems that Boxleitner had accompanied his wife, Screen Actors Guild president Melissa Gilbert, to the White House. The occasion was to discuss acting roles moving north of the border to Canada. In the middle of the conversation, the door opens and White House strategist Karl Rove walks in. He says to Melissa, “I hope you will forgive me, but I’m actually here to see Bruce.” And, no, it wasn’t to give him a hard time about how the Night Watch subplot on Babylon 5 was an eerie foreshadowing of the War on Terrorism.

According to Straczynski, Rove tells Boxleitner, “I just wanted to tell you that I’m a big science fiction fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series ever.” After a pause, he adds, “And the president thinks so too.”

Take a deep breath and pause for a few minutes to digest that. The president of the United States is allegedly a Babylon 5 fan.
...

Scott6113

(56 posts)
104. I never liked it either.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 03:55 PM
Sep 2014

It sounds like Heimat, like Germany.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimat
It is emotionally loaded. It should be called Department of Domestic Security which is still creepy, but a little less so.
I thought it really should apply to indigenous peoples, not to us European latecomers. That is, like Australia is the homeland of the Aboriginal Peoples.
There were many words that were used to avoid laws during the Bush years, and it worked superficially. It should fool no one, like detainee, enhanced interrogation, and more.

Scott6113

(56 posts)
105. I never liked it either.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 04:13 PM
Sep 2014

It sounds like Heimat, like Germany.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimat
It is emotionally loaded. It should be called Department of Domestic Security which is still creepy, but a little less so.
I thought it really should apply to indigenous peoples, not to us European latecomers. That is, like Australia is the homeland of the Aboriginal Peoples.
There were many words that were used to avoid laws during the Bush years, and it worked superficially. It should fool no one, like detainee, enhanced interrogation, and more.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
106. Homeland is a translation from the German word: Heimate.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 04:17 PM
Sep 2014

Homeland -- a NAZI kickback which the neo-cons love. The word is unsettling to me. Makes me feel nauseous.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
157. I doubt that the Bush administration pulled that word out of the bag because they had heard
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 02:43 PM
Sep 2014

it in its Swedish form. Homeland is a reference to the German word Heimat which is a perfectly OK word except that when certain right-wing sectors of the US public use it, they are referring to Hitler's speeches. Homeland in English is not inspired by the Swedish word. Please.

War Horse

(931 posts)
113. There's nothing intrinsically wrong
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:25 PM
Sep 2014

with phrases such as homeland, motherland of fatherland. I've used the former two somewhat romantically and innocently in several contexts, mostly out of country. I agree with you that this phrase should be buried until such time that it's possible to actually take it back, though.


Unless you'd like to state that such entities are just constructs, in which you'd have valid point, but the discussion sort of moves on to a different 'sphere' then

onenote

(42,714 posts)
114. Does that mean the title of the TV show has to change, too?
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 05:26 PM
Sep 2014

And when Jews and Palestinians each talk about wanting their respective homelands (as in "a Palestinian homeland" or a "Jewish Homeland&quot are they blind to the fact they're evoking Nazism?

Or does the word, which dates back hundreds of years in terms of its etymology, and which is often cited by proponents of the right of self determination, have more than the one meaning some here seem to think it has?

Never liked the word police.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
120. Thank you!! I have said this for years!!
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 07:09 PM
Sep 2014

We are not the homeland (that would be where our ancestors came from , and honestly, only our First Nations peoples have that claim). Russia is the Motherland, England is the homeland, the US is the United States of America (in other words, not the homeland).

It's not just that the term brings up shades of the Cold War and the Soviets as the bad guys. It's that it tries to say that the US is somehow old and a place defended with blood for millenia or at least many generations. We are neither.

Whey can't we call it the Dept. of US Security or, better yet, just get rid of it?

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
122. I've loathed it from the very moment it first appeared. Disgusting propaganda word.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 07:27 PM
Sep 2014

And creepy as hell.

It was NEVER a part of our national identifiers for our country, NEVER a word used in our civic and social and cultural conversations about our nation and ourselves as citizens of this nation. It was deliberately imposed on us by those whose intent was the creation of an ever-expanding National Security State, with a constant drumbeat of FEAR, FEAR, FEAR to keep us in line while shredding our rights.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
128. Meh...This board sure does have a nose sometimes for hopeless causes.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:25 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.dhs.gov/about-dhs

It's primarily an antiterrorism department. Homeland Security sounds better than that. Wanna change the name? You'll have to get rid of the department, and good luck finding any Democrat with half a functioning political brain for that.

colorado_ufo

(5,734 posts)
136. In days past, it would have been National Security.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:20 PM
Sep 2014

Do we have the Homeland Guard, or the National Guard? Do we say "one nation, under God," or "one homeland under God?" Do we speak of national interests, or homeland interests? National Anthem or Homeland Anthem? And on and on.

Bottom line is, the term "Homeland" is a that term we were not, and still really are not, accustomed to, and which until 9/11 was NOT in any form of common usage. It is an invention and one done that was foist upon us with the intent of manipulation.

Yes, the operating sentiment is "creepy."

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
139. Except the term was introduced by the Clinton Admin. pre-9/11, noted upthread
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:25 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5599684

Everyone keeps passing over that for some reason...

Here's a link:

The following is an unclassified abstract derived from Presidential Decision Directive-62 (PDD-62), "Protection Against Unconventional Threats to the Homeland and Americans Overseas," dated May 22, 1998...

http://fas.org/irp/offdocs/pdd-62.htm

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
130. I'd substitute Motherland...because then we could have the best national anthem...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:53 PM
Sep 2014

...just the best

Where in hell can you go
Far from the things that you know
Far from the sprawl of concrete
That keeps crawling its way
About 1,000 miles a day?

Take one last look behind
Commit this to memory and mind
Don't miss this wasteland, this terrible place
When you leave
Keep your heart off your sleeve

Motherland cradle me
Close my eyes
Lullaby me to sleep
Keep me safe
Lie with me
Stay beside me
Don't go, don't you go


DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
140. Hey, I'd be willing to toss out...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:33 PM
Sep 2014
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


...to get: Motherland cradle me, close my eyes, lullaby me to sleep, keep me safe, lie with me, stay beside me,
don't go.

Wouldn't you?

Turbineguy

(37,343 posts)
135. I agree
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 09:19 PM
Sep 2014

Unless of course they replace it with Fatherland. I mean we're already nearly a quarter of the way into the 1000 year bit.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
144. It has fascist connotations. N/t
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:20 PM
Sep 2014

We fought a war from 1941-1945 to keep that crap out of this country.

lastlib

(23,248 posts)
146. I still think we should call it the *K-GWB*
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 11:42 PM
Sep 2014

Becoz the way it tramples on our rights, it certainly smacks of the old Soviet KGB security apparatus; and it certainly has GWB's filthy fingerprints all over it, we need to give him ownership of it.

Response to xchrom (Original post)

tiptonic

(765 posts)
152. Time for the US to Dump
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 04:14 AM
Sep 2014

Operation Paperclip, all the Nazis had to go somewhere. Most ended up here working for the government. Prescott Bush's Bank. Even the new kevlar helmets smell of nazi. Seems simple to me.

mattclearing

(10,091 posts)
153. How did it take him 13 years to question this?
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 06:44 AM
Sep 2014

In a nation of immigrants, the only people who can claim a homeland are the native Americans.

gordianot

(15,240 posts)
156. At one time Native Americans were immigrants, and some of us are well blended.
Tue Sep 30, 2014, 11:14 AM
Sep 2014

I am all for dropping the term "homeland", "fatherland", "motherland". Given the number of abusers to the land we live including climate change deniers we should drop the term "Homeland" the place we all came from is Africa.

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