A decade ago I said these same things: we need a military objective

[Recursion]

I'm not a dove. Not remotely. I'm sure any of my DU brethren and sistren can attest to that. I am not a pacifist and I do not reject US military force a priori.

That said, I am a veteran, and I do think about these things. I believe in realpolitik. I believe we should use military force when it advances our security. The problem is, I can't find a security win for the US in our strikes against ISIS.

ISIS/ISIL is a bloodthirsty, horrible alleged organization. Living in India, I'm particularly aware of them, because they have just spurred AQ to officially open a South Asian branch. (And they did that through gritted teeth: they don't at all like the Pakistanis that sheltered them.)

If someone can present me with a military plan that would disable ISIS, I would support it. As it is, I don't yet see a convincing US security argument for this operation.

I grant that ISIS wants to attack America, but I'd also add that what distinguishes them from Al Qaeda is the "Near Enemy/Far Enemy" distinction: ISIS doesn't want to attack the US and Russia until local Arab governments are defeated. It's a tactical/logistical distinction, but tactics and logistics are what actually matter.

Anyways: I'm not a pacifist; I'm pretty much a hawk. I just don't think this military operation will improve things.

[Downwinder]

1. 50 years on and still no effective counterinsurgency strategy.

[Recursion]

2. We developed a decent one a century ago, in response to our failed occupation of the Phillippines

And we still ignore it today.

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. What Genocide and War Crimes are decent responce? Is this a joke?

American actions in the Philippines.

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/war.crimes/us/u.s.philippines.htm#13

The attitudes of American commanders involved in pacifying the Philippines are remarkable for both their disdain for the people they had allegedly "liberated" and their willingness to resort to the most ruthless methods in suppressing resistance. For example, General J.M. Bell, wrote in December 1901:

I am now assembling in the neighborhood of 2,500 men who will be used in columns of about fifty men each. I take so large a command for the purpose of thoroughly searching each ravine, valley and mountain peak for insurgents and for food, expecting to destroy everything I find outside of towns. All able bodied men will be killed or captured. ... These people need a thrashing to teach them some good common sense; and they should have it for the good of all concerned.]

Lichauco and Storey, The Conquest of the Philippines by the United States, 1898-1925, p. 120.


That same month, General Bell issued Circular Order No. 3 to all American commanders in the field:

Batangas, Dec. 9, 1901.

To All Station Commanders:

A general conviction, which the brigade commander shares, appears to exist, that the insurrection in this brigade continues because the greater part of the people, especially the wealthy ones, pretend to desire, but in reality do not want, peace; that, when all really want peace, we can have it promptly. Under such circumstances it is clearly indicated that a policy should be adopted that will as soon as possible make the people want peace, and want it badly.

Commanding officers are urged and enjoined to use their discretion freely in adopting any or all measures of warfare authorized by this order which will contribute, in their judgment, toward enforcing the policy or accomplishing the purpose above announced. ... No person should be given credit for loyalty solely on account of his having done nothing for or against us, so far as known. Neutrality should not be tolerated. Every inhabitant of this brigade should either be an active friend or be classed as an enemy..

http://www.humanitiesweb.org/human.php?s=s&p=l&a=c&ID=1125&o=



Even
.. Mark Twain thought it was genocide.

[Recursion]

5. The Army developed a manual. Have you read it? (nt)

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. You must be talking about WWII

not my time period because that US general's notes states another policy.

[Recursion]

7. No, long before that. During the Philippine insurgency

Pre-WWI, even.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Oh when we did war crimes and genocide

You need to work for the Jefferson county school board
they would enjoy your revisionist history..

[Shivering Jemmy]

3. IS is not an insurgency

It is an attempt at a state. As such it can be responded to via tactics that resemble those we apply against states.

[Downwinder]

9. U.S. Government Counterinsurgency Guide. Department of State.

"Insurgency is the organized use of subversion and violence to seize, nullify or challenge political control of a region. As such, it is primarily a political struggle, in which both sides use armed force to create space for their political, economic and influence activities to be effective."