"Nerdy men" and the double standard it represents.

[Bonobo]

What does it mean if it does not suggest a judgment on their manliness or lack of sexual attractiveness?

Consider what is a "nerd" in your mind and then tell me it isn't NOT a commonly accepted form of shaming for not being manly enough.

Personally, it's not a big deal to me, but I do like to call out unexamined double-standards when they appear.

Here's one of the many, many ways it is used without considering the above.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025574762

[LeftyMom]

1. Nerdy women exist, so your entire argument is stupid. nt

[Bonobo]

2. Of course it is. nt

[CreekDog]

180. Good. You agree.

[Starry Messenger]

3. This.

[Bonobo]

5. When girls are called "nerdy", is there sexuality being denied? nt

[cyberswede]

10. I don't think anyone's (boy or girl) sexuality is being denied with the descriptor "nerdy."

Do you use the term that way? Why or why not?

[LeftyMom]

12. No. Men's isn't either. Amazingly enough they're usually sexing on other nerds.

Hell, my experience and observation is that nerds tend to be less inhibited as adults and less supervised as young people, and tend to be happily expressing their sexuality at above background rates.

[hfojvt]

103. that's not the way I remember it

Although I think most of my fellow students from advanced chemistry are married, except Dan, probably the studliest one of the group.

But, other than Kurt, none of us did much dating in high school. Not sure what happened in college.

Nerd may be a poorly defined group if it just goes by brains. I mean, Jeff was quite the stud, and he was in band and made NJHS, just like me. Andy made NHS as a senior and so did Roger who also graduated with honors, and they were both quite popular with the ladies. Rod made NHS as well, and was Mr. Basketball for the whole state, but wasn't exactly a big ladies man - but I do remember some really cute sophomore girl announcing excitedly to her friends that she was going to the prom with Rod!!

Neither Rod nor Andy graduated with honors, though, so they made NHS apparently on the backs of their athletic accomplishments, and maybe their class rank was top 25%.

[CreekDog]

181. What does how you remember something have to do with how something actually is right now?

It actually doesn't.

[hfojvt]

182. I sort of have actual experience being a nerd

and being friends with nerds.

True, it is 30 year old experience, and I might be really surprised to find out that now nerds are fending off hordes of ladies with their pocket protectors while the jocks are laughed at and made fun of.

I suppose it could happen.

[LeftyMom]

184. So do I, and it's newer data.

We got away with some crazy shit because we were nice, smart kids who could be trusted. And the adult nerds I know are nearly all paired (or more than, in a surprising number of cases- poly folks run geeky) off and happily.

You're still neglecting to factor in that nerds come in all genders.

[hfojvt]

187. you are not THAT much younger than me

And really, they don't come in all genders, at least not in medium to small schools, and not in my day.

My own school, for example, with 256 graduates, 7 of us graduated with highest honors - 4 girls, 3 boys. The boys being, the aforementioned Dan, Kurt and myself.

As for the girls. There was Donna, a queen candidate. Nah, we could only dream of Donna. Anyway, she didn't take any math or science classes. And Kathleen was a preppy cute girl. Linda hung out with the party girls. Jane would be a nerd, but even Jane only took chemistry and not advanced chemistry.

Smart girls, but not nerds, except for Jane, and I think Jane never married. (also never came back to a reunion).

And you may note that there are a number of guys disagreeing with your optimism. It wasn't their experience either.

[DavidG_WI]

107. Really?

Because while I and every other geek was open to everything we where all often too anti-social to have much luck getting into anyone's pants.

[LeftyMom]

139. What happened at Academic Decathalon stayed at Academic Decathalon. nt

[uponit7771]

173. this is false

[Cali_Democrat]

35. WTF?

Is their sexuality being denied?

Gawd you are a riot...

[smirkymonkey]

174. Geez! He's reaching there.

[treestar]

131. Of course it is

Women are judged much more quickly as unattractive, too. Just starting with age. Women get less attractive, but men don't (or so we are told).

And women are considered less attractive for being smart, at least traditionally.

[DavidG_WI]

140. That entirely...

depends on if she "cleans up good" or not, as a male geek an attractive female geek is something I've long sought out, however, they are a species that has been hunted to near extinction... the few you find are in a committed relationship already.

[Hosnon]

170. No, and it is often viewed as a positive.

I agree with you that it is more of a sexual dig at men than women.

[DavidG_WI]

105. Girls aren't expected...

to be jocks or tough guys. As a male geek I've always caught shit for having no interest in sports irregardless of if I was any good at them or not and not going around faking how tough I was.

I was actually good at football as a lineman and as a goalie in soccer, but I never played them unless forced to in school. I instead preferred to ride around the county on my bike, go hiking, read a book, play a video game or repair something electronic.

[MadrasT]

145. Girls are expected to be "feminine" and socially adept.

Geek girls generally do not have those attributes.

As a geek girl, I have caught all kind of shit for not conforming to femininity.

Because like you

I instead preferred to ride around the county on my bike, go hiking, read a book, play a video game or repair something electronic.

[merrily]

152. As a girl in school, I got mocked for not being athletically capable

and I am not 22.

You seem to be working with some Victorian stereotypes.

[betsuni]

155. I dreaded PE classes because I was skinny and weak

Dodge ball was hellish: Christians and lions. I was always one of the last chosen for any sports team, it was me and the three girls with actual visible physical handicaps. The athletic girls and the cheerleaders were the popular ones. And I wasn't smart enough to be a nerd. Shy, stupid, weak and skinny. Fortunately, I've managed to block out pretty much all memory of school, which is a bit unsettling, but oh well.

[seabeyond]

160. i am so so sorry. i see it here. even the popular kids? i assure you they have their cross they

bare. my thoughts. take your 20's to undo all that was done to us in childhood and teens. use the 20's to acknowledge, coddle self, and let it go. to allow the rest of life, to be your creation. not everyone elses.

this thread is having me do a lot of thinking.

i was the athlete. my brother a football hero. i knew everyone. i got along with every one. and... i do not do people, lol and especially groups. i did not participate in any groups, or cliches or whatever.

whereas another girl, straight A's, cheerleader, awesomely athletic and fit, just loveliest, AND nice. lol. how does perfection roll up into one person.

i heard she killed herself a couple years out of highschool. from my eyes, perfection. a life of ease.

and she was

perfect to the end.

she bought a gun, made the payments, then killed herself.

anyway, yours and others stories are making me think. thank you for that. you do not need to open that door to the unpleasent past. a shut door and moving on works.

[betsuni]

164. Ah, no, I'm old -- I'll be 54 next month, water under the bridge.

I was going to add, maybe should've, that I had some success as a ballet dancer and then in modeling and acting in my later teens before realizing that sort of thing wasn't for me and I went to college (Revenge is mine, quoth the skinny shy person who the boys used to bark at and call a dog). Many of those popular girls never got out of our small town. They can have their glory days in school, wouldn't change anything! Suffering through dodge ball hell builds character.

[seabeyond]

167. water under the bridge. it is surprising how many hittin 50's relive that period.

i do not think it would be a fun place to be. now, it is time to have some fun. lol. coolest. thanks. you made me think. i like that.

[DavidG_WI]

157. You expected to play team sports? Combat sports etc? Physically attacked...

for appearing "weak" for not participating? How often was a ball intentionally launched at your head? Ever been punch in the back with a padlock because you didn't want to play?

I'm saying it'd petty harsh being a boy in school that has zero interest in sports.

[merrily]

172. Yes to several of those questions.

[smokey nj]

159. Girls are expected to be physically perfect and are berated mercilessly when they are not.

[hfojvt]

188. I was not uninterested in sports

played little league baseball, pitched, played a fair amount of basketball and football (mostly backyard), watched the NFL every Sunday, played softball, volleyball, etc. Never was all that good. Too small, probably, to play real football, although I did have some speed. Played tennis.

The main thing I hated about sports, was the public showering.

I don't remember catching a lot of crap though, mostly because I kept to myself, but certainly was not popular in school or anything because I was valedictorian or played 1st trumpet.

[seabeyond]

4. both my boys call themselves nerds and neither think they are "unmanly" so i will disagree with you.

we do not see it as an insult.

carry on....

[Bonobo]

7. Self-identifying is not the same as labeling other people.

Refer to black people using the n word for help with the concept.

[seabeyond]

9. ah. didnt get the answer you want so you throw in a twist. no, the kids i

know and have been around, do not see nerd as an insult. the nerds of the world have been glorified by say.... bill gates and the like.

[Bonobo]

11. From the linked article...

"Men in general, but especially nerdy men, are used to having their whims satisfied as swiftly, entirely, and luridly as possible. It comes as no surprise, then, that their anger knows no lines. A woman’s family, friends, career, and sanity are all fair game. If they’re angry, and she’s a woman, they must be in the right. "


Doesn't sound all that glorified to me.

[cyberswede]

15. Does one person's generalization = everyone's definition?

How do you figure?

[Bonobo]

17. No, but it does make it a potential topic for discussion.

I am trying to have one.

[seabeyond]

20. no. you tried a gotcha that failed.

[Bonobo]

22. You are WAY to keyed up to viewing everything as a fight to the death, you know that?

You could try to just chill out and breathe and have a discussion once in a while.

[seabeyond]

25. no, i do not know that. and just cause you decide does not make it so either.

you are obvious. you have a history. and your OP and hte first handful of posts of yours in this thread is clear. you saw your fail and back pedaled.

and i am far from the only one to recognize.

[cyberswede]

28. The replies in this thread demonstrate that you are having a discussion.

However, most respondents seem to feel your premise (that nerdy = unmanly) is flawed. I don't see how using the quote from the article supports your position.

[Bonobo]

31. Ok, that's fine.

But there seem to be a lot of personal attacks for such a mild and innocuous OP.

Personally I think the reaction to the concept of being criticized for having a double standard is what is really telling.

Just my opinion.

[seabeyond]

33. you OP is a DEMAND and even at that, it is an incorrect demand. people are not going to cotton to

your DEMAND we acknowledge a double standard that is not.

[Bonobo]

37. It is INTERESTING that you projected a "demand" onto the OP. There was none.

Interesting indeed.

[seabeyond]

38. then tell me it isn't NOT a commonly accepted form of shaming for not being manly enough.

that is how i read it.

[cyberswede]

40. I think it's pretty clear your premise of a double standard is nonexistent, in this case.

I'm sorry you didn't get the responses you were hoping for in this "mild and innocuous" thread, and I'm not sure what personal attacks you're referring to.

[Bonobo]

42. No big deal

It is nothing. Not everything has to go your way nor does everyone have to agree.

[whistler162]

142. On DU usually!

[AndyTiedye]

150. Another Possible Explanation

Most of the linked article is consistent with other reports of sexual harassment in the workplace, including many workplaces that do not have a particularly high population of nerds. The real constant seems to be an abuse of power associated with their job.

The most likely reason that most of the unwanted attention that she receives is from "nerdy men" is because she is, by her own description, a nerdy woman.

[seabeyond]

161. point. this is what i was going ot mention last night. not a nerd or frat or sports world

issue. not a political party issue. not a religious/atheist issue. it is a man's issue.

[GeorgeGist]

149. thats nonsense.

My daughters used to call me a nerd.

[JI7]

14. yup, same experience, guys and girls i know have called themselves and others Nerds and it was

never used as a way to attack their sexuality.

i have called the President a Nerd.

[seabeyond]

19. have called the President a Nerd.

there is another example. it is generally labeled on those smart and gonna be successful. the kids today do not see it as an insult. they see themselves as "cool" nerds. lol

[JI7]

24. exactly, it's been embraced , i get called a nerd for always reading

and having interest in certain things and i never see it as an insult even if they are kind of teasing me.

many have embraced it.

and it certainly has never had anything to do with attacking someone's sexuality.

if anything these days Nerd is seen as an attractive quality .

[jen63]

39. Definitely being embraced.

My 20 yr, old is a self admitted nerd and the nerd among his peers. It means he's the smart one. That's his thing. He loves it.

[Threedifferentones]

75. My experiences in grade school, which were mostly in the 90s, ran directly counter to this.

Please read my other responses, #59 and #74, and tell me what you think...

[seabeyond]

77. i did read. there are always kids that are picked on. you were one. i am sorry.

i am sorry you were the one picked on for so many reasons.

[Threedifferentones]

78. Thank you, I really appreciate it.

Any time I talk about that stuff it gets a little bit better, especially when the listeners are understanding and sympathetic. Thank you.

[seabeyond]

80. you are welcome. and i am so glad that you state....

as you talk about it, it gets better. it really cannot be something you live with. you are done with them, that.

my oldest, very slim and light weight, glasses, very verbally articulate at such a young age and always the one with the answers in class. he would read books in a couple hours. fuzzy brain leaving him exposed to others for taunts, if they chose.

every year, there was a kid.... that tried to bully.

his grace was so many kids knew him, and he was the one the other kids came to talk, they trusted him, that they gave their woes to and he would support them. he was a good friend to many, without close friend buddies. he was able to make it thru school.

he was good looking too, and ferociously brave standing up for people, and had girls with crushes. so he had the good and the bad and was able to walk the land mine of middle school.

but, from the youngest of age, i told him... life will be so much better for you when you get out of high school and into the adult world.

now, he has walked into the university and he gets the same puffing of chest male ego, in the sport environment he is in. running. the (not real sport). i get all the hurdles guys have to jump with this whole stupid man card thing. and i have listened to the struggles for years, decade and half.

i HOPE, that as you put your life together moving forward, you are able to let go of the pain of your youth and not let it color what you live today. that is no way to live.

[JustAnotherGen]

53. Very true

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

69. Well, apparently you didn't read the article

It's pretty clear the author doesn't love "nerds" as much as you or the rest of DU does. Maybe she prefers jocks, frat bros and Richie Rich, because she certainly seems to think "nerds" are just about the most awful, angry, misogynist men on Earth.

[seabeyond]

70. like there is not a misogynist problem in the jock world, too. or the frat bros or

richie rich.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

72. Oh, no, apparently nerds are the worst

That's what I learned from this article.

[seabeyond]

73. you get the exact same when talking about rice beating his gf, or frats druggie and raping girls

or the richie feeling entitled shooting up a sorority house.

[Eleanors38]

141. That's how I see it. But the sky must be polka dot.

[Hippo_Tron]

130. Seabeyond, I think it's a wonderful thing that your boys can proudly call themselves nerds

But do you disagree that it's a commonly stigmatized term among school-aged children?

[seabeyond]

166. i have thought about your question, since last night. it is important. and it is not easy or

simple to answer. here is a little more of my sons experience that i posted here, instead of retyping it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025577480#post80

i knew the trials my son was going to go thru, in the scheme of things how society defines. i am from a family of aggressiveness, lol, competitive, passionate, loud, brain smart, not academically. physically, we are very powerful.

i married into a family of slim, light, some shorter than average, some not. intellectual. academic. passive aggressive. nothing passive in my aggressive.

my son was in two worlds. polar opposite.

there is no nerd in our family. there is only nerd in husbands. funny funny. we got to clear experience the pro and con of both.

as insightful and brilliant my son is and had the opportunity to delve in this subject at a young age, to reconcile his experiences, he is still having a really tough time with it. and i am concerned.

there is no way i dismiss or lessen anothers experience. this is a very real experience for our boys and i believe it is getting tougher and tougher to earn that damn man card. i am trying to convince mine, they do not need it. it is not worth spending time going after it. you already have your man card, simply.... being a fuckin man. and doing it well.

my son had and is having challenges for about 15 yrs. he started young recognizing his differences.

i didnt answer your question. i spent a lot of time in school with the boys, and their peers around me. i was driving these kids around all the time. afforded me the chance to hear what was up. i get how it all works. i do not know that they go after nerd per se. i see them go after what they create as the weak. by group attacking and the other kids afraid to step up. i do not know that it is particularly the nerd, or the fat kid, or too skinney kid, .... but they do pick them.

[cyberswede]

6. I don't consider "nerdy" to be unmanly.

I like nerdy people.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Nerdiness does not connote insufficient manliness

so much as insufficient coolness - although there is a certain kind of cool that actually requires nerdiness. Also, women can be nerds; I know this because I have always been a very nerdy woman. So the premise of the OP fails.

[Bonobo]

13. "so much as"

I agree.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. It usually means "socially inept", not "unmanly".

[Control-Z]

18. A nerdy guy, brainy and good looking,

equals sexy as hell in my book. In my daughter's book too. And her girlfriends feel much the same. I don't know what you're on about.

[seabeyond]

23. this. exactly. i was trying ot explain it above. this is much better. nt

[LeftyMom]

27. I got myself one of those.

So naturally I agree.

[liberal_at_heart]

43. my sister in law called my husband a dork jokingly. I told him he was not a dork. He is an engineer

geek and a goof ball. He was curious so he looked up the definitions and by golly if I didn't nail it. He is my sexy engineer geek and goof ball.

[seabeyond]

44. geek is another fav. bush i thought a dork, but took him to doofus. nt

[hfojvt]

97. maybe the fact that if he is "good looking"

then he does not fit into the category of "nerd".

Otherwise looking at your statement I tend to think "wow, women think that good looking guys are sexy, who knew?"

[Control-Z]

104. You are missing the point. Not all good looking men are sexy.

Many, in fact, are not. It's the nerd in the guy, for me, that makes him sexy. A guy doesn't have to be really good looking to be sexy. Its his brainy substance that does it and something I have found most really good looking men to be lacking.

[hfojvt]

106. no, I caught the point

the phrase "good looking" was included.

Meaning, however attracted one may be to a guy's brains, that a pretty face and a muscular body do not hurt either.

Not that I can throw stones from my glass house.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

101. Yup, as long as he has minimal social skills

A brainy, reasonbly good-looking nerd is very attractive.

[bettyellen]

21. Women are nerds too. for fucks sake, it means you are smart. and not pathetically mainstream.

[Populist_Prole]

46. Bingo

I can't get over this bullshit stigma that the growing imbecile population attaches to anyone who is not a shallow bandwagon rider. The term "nerd" and "geek" is so broadly used it pretty much means anyone with an IQ higher than 88 and not obsessed with sports or celeb worship.

[smirkymonkey]

176. +1000

[Marr]

111. My god, that's even more insulting.

Let's substitute the word "smart" for "nerdy".

'Men in general, but especially smart men, are used to having their whims satisfied as swiftly, entirely, and luridly as possible. It comes as no surprise, then, that their anger knows no lines. A woman’s family, friends, career, and sanity are all fair game. If they’re angry, and she’s a woman, they must be in the right. '

You can't seriously believe the author meant "smart" there. I think her meaning was very clear; sexually undesirable men who feel bitterly towards women. It's basically the 'man-hater' insult that's so commonly thrown at feminists, turned around.

[cyberswede]

114. That may be the way this author intended it, but it's not the way everyone uses the term.

I believe the premise of the OP was that the term is widely used that way, and is thus a double standard. I think it's clear in this thread that a lot of people don't use the term that way, hence the double standard argument isn't supported.

[bettyellen]

168. Oh, I think the article is crappy. I think it is talking about a subset of assholes online that has

nothing to do with what society generally defines as a nerd. It seems to be about the general jerkiness of online gamers or comic book fans- which are communities that do seem to have big issues with women online.

[Marr]

175. No argument there.

I've frequented both for a long time, and know several women who work in the gaming industry (I've worked in comics myself). It's odd-- the industries themselves seem to have come a very long way in the last couple of decades, but the fan base is, I think, unusually misogynistic in many ways. I don't know if it's because so much of it is comprised of teenage/early 20's boys or what, but certain segments seem very inhospitable to women.

Things are very compartmentalized in both industries-- by genre, I mean. It's odd. There are comic scenes that couldn't be more open and friendly, like indie comics, that really target and depend on the widest possible demographic, and others that are closed, insular, and proudly insulting to anyone they deem an outsider.

Same with video games-- the crowd in an online shooter game tends to be much more coarse and bigoted than the crowd in an online strategy game, or rpg. At least, so it seems to me.

[bettyellen]

177. seems to me you could have written a more insightful article! I just thought holding the article up

as an example of anything was quite a stretch. Was just addressing the nerd part of it. The less intellectually inclined part of our culture is always going to make fun of people with brains- no matter which gender. Hopefully when you outgrow your teen years it ceases to matter.

I'm pretty much outside the realm of comic con folk, so thanks for this. The mainstream stuff with women drawn with huge boobs seems a little alienating- I have always assumed that was mostly for teen boys. I do have quite a few friends who are fans, but mostly indie stuff from what I have seen.

[Marr]

183. It probably is a stretch.

On further reflection, I think this whole thing is reading to much significance into a single usage of a single word.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize if I've been unduly combative, by the way-- the word 'nerdy' is something of a sore spot for me, as you might imagine-- lol.

[bettyellen]

186. no worries! I'm still not exactly sure why what I said initially bothered you, but you realized I

wasn't putting actually down nerds, and so it's all good. Thanks though!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. I believe "nerd" is a negative judgment in some peoples' minds.

People who are superficial and into sports and hate smart people.

I don't care what they think. If someone wants to call me a nerd that is fine with me. And I know a lot of smart men who have absolutely no interest in sports.

I like this quote: "Nerd? I prefer the term 'intellectual badass'."

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. my fourteen y/o nephew thinks being a nerd is uncool but, he is outgrowing

that attitude and pretty quickly, too.

[Warpy]

30. Not everything is about you.

That thread was about nerdy women and what they have to face in a world full of male nerds who want to keep them silent and subordinate.

It was about nonstop viciousness.

It wasn't about the word "nerd," which fits members of both sexes. It was about a deep seated hatred of women by a group of men who have been judged inferior by other men, not by women.

[Bonobo]

32. I don' think it's about me either. nt

[cyberswede]

41. "...a group of men who have been judged inferior by other men, not by women."

Quite so.

Double standard? Not.

[KittyWampus]

34. nerd always meant socially awkward to me and/or brainy.

[laundry_queen]

45. Yeah

not really. That wasn't my experience at all.

My best guy friend in university was very nerdy but then, I also had the label (started in middle school, then continued). We had grown up together and the guys he hung around with, and him, were like brothers to me. I just basically had no sexual feelings towards them at all and my friend wasn't any more or less manly because of the 'nerdy' tag. I ended up marrying someone who was a 'computer/comic book nerd' so the term had zero impact on how I perceived the sexual attractiveness of a guy.

However, I had multiple girl friends (all super popular) who often called me a nerd in front of popular guys to make me seem 'less than' they were, in terms of attractiveness. They would urge me to not use such big words around the guys because I made them look bad hanging around such a nerd (yes I had horrible friends...I was a magnet for mistreatment because of my upbringing) and as a whole would render the whole group unattractive. Oddly, the most popular guy was incredibly 'nerdy' but no one seemed to care that HE was super smart. However, I was told to play it dumb in order to attract guys.

So my experience was the opposite. Although I'm not sure my 'nerdiness' bothered any guys (I never had issues getting a boyfriend) so much as it was an issue for some of my friends and their perception on how it impacted attractiveness. Plus that was a long time ago. In my daughter's school, the term is no more derogatory than any other group label and has zero sexual connotation to the term.

[liberal_at_heart]

47. the word is no longer derogatory because popular kids like to call themselves nerdy even when they

are not, but nerdy kids still get treated like crap. My son has autism and is socially awkward, but he is also very friendly and funny. He usually makes one or two really good friends, but sometimes he just gets ignored or even picked on.

[laundry_queen]

50. I don't think it's just that

When I was that age, it was simply uncool to get good marks. Now, there is zero stigma to getting good marks. So calling someone a nerd for getting good marks doesn't have the same impact as it once did. The response is now, 'so?' At my daughters' school there is very little bullying even among those who are socially awkward - my daughter is an example - her appearance is odd and not really 'socially acceptable' and she has anxiety issues (plus she's openly gay). Her best guy friend has a serious illness and looks sickly and is often gone from school for medical appointments or hospitalizations. Neither of them get picked on. I think sometimes it's just the school. The school my 2 older girls go to is the same high school I went to and there was very little picking on kids tolerated even back then. The school is extremely inclusive. Even when I attended - 25 years ago now - there was a class of kids with severe autism/Down's syndrome and other issues that were integrated into our classes and we all became friends. I don't know - maybe I'm just lucky to be in this community. I'm very sorry your son has to deal with that. Picking on kids is not tolerated at my girls' school and both of them have told me they have never seen a kid getting picked on, ever, at their school. I guess we are pretty lucky. (or totally blind, lol, but I don't think I'm THAT naïve, it's a small town, I'd hear about stuff)

[liberal_at_heart]

51. I'm glad it doesn't happen often, but I seriously doubt it never happens. Humans are humans and

there are always some who feel the need to show they are superior to others. Hell there is bullying here on DU and we're suppose to be a progressive website.

[bluestateguy]

48. Nerdiness is no longer uncool like it used to be

This isn't the 70's or the 80's anymore. People saw how successful nerds became in life, making shitloads of money, raising good families, and it became acceptable, even cool, to be a nerd.

[liberal_at_heart]

49. I have to wonder if physical size has anything to do with it. My husband's nephew is quite a bit

smaller than the other boys. He's not really a nerd. He even plays football which is like a religion in Texas, but he is smaller and gets bullied constantly.

[pnwmom]

52. Smart people consider the words "nerds" and "geeks" to be compliments.

Stupid people don't.

[get the red out]

54. I have always found them attractive

I have always liked a man with a brain and/or talent, with natural curiosity about things. aybe it generates a negative connotation for some folks but when I was unmarried the word "nerd" meant I might be interested. Yea, hubby is kind of nerdy.

[Sherman A1]

55. It is simply another attempt

to pigeon hole an individual and generally in an uncomplimentary fashion. I don't think of it as a particularly good thing.

[trumad]

56. OMG

What a silly Op.

I work in a business full of Engineers and all of them revel in being a nerd. They embrace it because they know they're the smartest people in the company.

[ProfessorGAC]

113. Actually, Tru. . .

. . .in my experience engineers and scientists (i'm the latter) prefer to use the term geek to nerd. Geek at least carries the implication that there is a savant quality, even though one may be a bit overboard in that specific expertise.

Nerd implies, far too often, a lack of social skills, like knowing how to dress, and how to interact with others.

Not universal of course, but i know i'm ok with geek.

[redruddyred]

57. I thought "nerdy" was a synonym for "smart".

that's a good thing, right?

[Adrahil]

79. Well it denotes a bit more than that.

In high school (and now), I am (I flatter myself) pretty smart. But I'm not "cool." I am definitely more comfortable in geek culture than I am anywhere else. Many of my colleagues play golf, like to attend cocktail jazz evenings, and wear sport coats and expensive designer shoes and shirts. Me? I'd rather go to a con, watch a geeky movie, and even still indulge in a little D&D every now and again. My colleagues are smart, but they are not nerds (well, some of them are, but many aren't).

A geek is someone who is really into pop culture (usually sci-fi and/or fantasy).

A nerd someone who is really into something academic... usually technical... to the point that they avoid some social norms. Many nerds are also geek s(though a few are not), but in my experience nearly as many geeks are nerds.

I love it! defining geek/nerd culture!

[MadrasT]

58. "Nerds" are sexy as hell to some people. It's a descriptor of a personality type, not an insult. n/t

[Threedifferentones]

59. Bonobo I agree completely.

I was in grade school just over a decade ago, and even then "nerd" had a meaning that was essentially based on being NOT a "jock" and NOT "cool." There is definitely an implication of a lack of physical prowess and a lack of sufficient "many" traits to fit in with "real men."

Anyone who says otherwise was almost assuredly not a boy who was teased because of his "nerdiness." In fact, In my experience nerds don't just get taunted by the "real men," they get fucking beaten.

Some of your detractors are sort of ironic, because they would no doubt point out to any male who questioned just how big a deal a given form of harassment is for women, say cat calling, that he has never lived in the shoes of a woman and thus has no idea.

That is totally true, but so is this OP. Any person who does not believe it fucking definitely would if they had been bullied the way I was bullied.

If this post sounds overly angry, please consider that this topic is obviously a "trigger" for some traumatic experiences of my youth...

[H2O Man]

68. Very good.

Your response is, in my opinion, the most important one on this thread. Thank you.

[Marr]

112. +1

I can't believe people are actually acting like the author meant "smart" or "sexy" in that context. It was an obvious put-down, and insisting it was somehow a compliment is just... very aggravating.

[Zorra]

126. In honor of all who are "wrong in all the right ways" ~

[Kermitt Gribble]

136. Great post, Threedifferentones.

I was in grade school 3 decades ago, and "nerd" had the same meaning then that you describe here.

[Hosnon]

171. Bingo. nt.

[betsuni]

60. Maybe "nerd" or "geek" had magical powers back in the 90s for Charisma Man

but not anymore!

[Bonobo]

63. You could drown in that sea of bitterness. nt

[betsuni]

82. The creators of Charisma Man are all men -- you didn't know that?

[Bonobo]

88. You an English teacher? nt

[eridani]

61. I consider myself a nerd hag

I'm attracted to nerdy people of both genders.

[Dorian Gray]

62. I think that nerdy

can be used to describe both men and women. And they're pretty big pop culturally.

[LWolf]

64. A nerd, male or female,

is someone smarter than the average, which makes them a target of social bullying.

[Phentex]

65. OK, it is NOT a commonly accepted form of shaming for not being manly enough.

That's not what it means.

[Threedifferentones]

74. Maybe not anymore, but if so that is a recent change, and one perhaps analguous to gay people or AAs

reclaiming the words "queer" and "nigger" for use in their own sub-cultures.

I graduated from HS barely 10 years ago, and in my grade school years it definitely carried a connotation of being physically weak and not a "real man." That's not all the word nerd means, but it definitely does mean that, or at least did a decade or two ago when it was applied pejoratively to me every fucking day.

[Phentex]

96. Is the comic in question from a decade ago?

Comics have changed, video games have changed, words have changed.

Also, weren't some girls considered nerds when you were in school? I don't see the double standard the OP is describing.

[Bonobo]

66. Legalize it

:large

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

67. Nerdy in that context was absolutely used as a pejorative

Anyone who tries to paint it as otherwise is fooling themselves. But hey, why not? No one likes unattractive, socially awkward men. Low hanging fruit.

[el_bryanto]

71. Well - I think it's pretty striaghtforward

Within the culture that article is talking about Nerdy men have power and are using it to get what they want, to the detriment of both the industry that they are claiming to champion and to the detriment of others who might want to participate in it. There's nothing in games or comic books that mandate they be the province of nerdy men; but they have erected societal gates to keep others out.

I like games. I like comic books. I want both industries to thrive and grow. So I want more women and others reading comic books and playing games. And I don't want them being made to feel unwelcome. I also don't like bullies, which, within this sphere, is what these nerdy men have become.

As for double standards - you need to look at context. The context is that the nerdy men have the power in those communities. So I'm fine with them suffering a little. Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

Bryant

[Adrahil]

76. Well, being a "nerd" isn't the stigma it used to be.

Nerds and geeks are well-accepted in popular culture.

There IS a strong element of misogyny among a segment of the male nerd/geek population. IN my experience, this especially strong in the segments of the population where strongly sexualized images of women are common, or even usual. Video games and comic books are obvious areas. I mean, look at that "special edition" of the Spider Woman comic.... it was basically a paint-over of a nude woman. The fact that that cover didn't trip any alarms in the editorial process says a lot about that sub-culture.

[tularetom]

81. Times have changed, now nerds are seen in a different light

Sure you can still see the occasional pocket protector or taped up eyeglasses, but a lot of former "nerds" are now tech bazillionaires, driving around in expensive automobiles and living in high end neighborhoods.

I'm not in possession of any statistics, but I'd bet that there are fewer virgin nerds around these days.

[MineralMan]

83. That's silly. Being a nerd is not confined just to men.

It has nothing to do with sexuality. It's just another way people define people who are not the same as they are. It's also a stupid name. People can be science nerds or music nerds, or whatever. The only people who call other people nerds are narrow-minded people who can't accept that everyone is not the same.

Me? I'm a nerd. I was a science nerd and a band nerd. I'm still a nerd. Doesn't bother me. Doesn't bother my wife, either. I can't imagine why anyone would care enough to call me a name.

[MadrasT]

146. Band nerds unite!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

84. I don't know. What's currently the highest rated sitcom on TV?

The main character is shown dating his attractive, non-Nerdy neighbor.

The characters, while perhaps caricatures exaggerated for comedic effect, are all endearing.

The pop culture notion of "nerd" is not necessarily the stigma that it was 15-20 years ago. Whereas Laura was always rejecting Steve Urkel's advances, now we have Leonard and Penny shacking up together.

How that translates into real life is another question.

[seabeyond]

85. i love my sheldon. i feel like sheldons mom toward my oldest son.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

87. That has to be my favorite scene in the whole series. nt

[seabeyond]

86. or another fav...

[MadrasT]

147. Sheldon!

[snooper2]

89. That blog was stupid I was hoping it would die a quick death :)

[NickB79]

90. Well, this is what an entire generation grew up thinking nerds were

So yeah, I think the OP has a point.

[GummyBearz]

143. Yea

But don't bother trying to explain it. Someone has a daughter who thinks nerds are sexy... so that must trump everything else in the world

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

91. I married my nerd, before "nerd" was popular

waaaaay back when....

LOL

[mopinko]

117. so did i.

30 years later, the nerd is gone, but he left a lot of money behind, so....

[justiceischeap]

92. Some context to the article that's linked to in your OP

First off, the author is 23 so I think her definition of the word "Nerd" may be different than what some of us older folks think of it as.

In today's social communities, there's a very fine line between being a nerd, a geek and a hipster. I'd posit that the author is a geeky, nerdy hipster who loves comic books.

You can't take one sentence from a fairly long essay and then take it out of context. Here are the three paragraphs surrounding your "unexamined double-standards."

This is the reality of being a woman in the comic book industry. These are the conversations we have. These are the bargains we strike with ourselves as we juggle career, sanity, and safety. And none of these fears are unfounded. We grew up in anonymous online spaces, among men who did not know we were there, or did not care. We know it can get exactly as bad as we fear, and often does. We have watched as teen girls are sent pictures of their heads photoshopped onto porn models. We have seen literally thousands of anonymous social media accounts created to threaten any woman who uses the word “misogyny” in earnest with bloody gang rape. Chatrooms full of men conspire to harass and abuse Zoe Quinn with a view to inspiring suicide, then to troll whatever hashtag pops up to memorialize her. Anita Sarkeesian is threatened so violently that she leaves her home, and is then accused of faking said threats. For years, we have laughed and rolled our eyes at women and girls are sacrificed to the maw of male anger—remember Jessi Slaughter?—only to be forgotten as a new Terrible Lying Whore Bitch emerges.

Men in general, but especially nerdy men, are used to having their whims satisfied as swiftly, entirely, and luridly as possible. It comes as no surprise, then, that their anger knows no lines. A woman’s family, friends, career, and sanity are all fair game. If they’re angry, and she’s a woman, they must be in the right.

As women decide not to take this treatment any longer, they leave a tide of confused men in their wake, wondering at their passion and swelling ranks. They (confident of their cool, masculine, logical objectivity) don’t see all this so-called harassment. And it doesn’t seem like it really gets that bad. It seems entirely possible to them that the more violent threats are faked by the women themselves. They (impartial observers that they are) know that, well, women really do crave attention, and get sort of carried away with their feelings. Games and comics have no place for them, really! That’s just the market—the perfectly rational, not-at-all-affected-by-fluctuating-cultural-mores market! If women are going to put controversial opinions out there then they should be ready to handle blowback! I mean, they, as guys, get yelled at all the time on Xbox Live! These men roll their eyes. Guess women just can’t handle real gender equality.


Read More: Why Women In Comics Don't 'Just Report' Sexual Harassment | http://comicsalliance.com/sexual-harassment-women-comics-games-fear-way-of-life/

*emphasis mine

So, let's see how this author demasculates men... she claims they are confident in their cool, masculine, logical objectivity... hmm, wow, I'm not seeing your claim in what she writes. I see her claiming that nerdy men are spoiled and given to whims. I see her claiming that nerdy men deny harassment of nerdy women (or just women in general who dare to enter "their" domain or nerdom but I don't see her claiming that nerdy men are less manly in any way.

Some words over time change (and some don't) and the way people from one generation use those words compared to another can be wholly different. For example, it was insulting to be referred to as "queer" when I was growing up but now that is actually a sexual identity for newer generations. There is also a marked difference depending on geography too.

So yes, this author referred to "nerdy men" in her article but the fact that she's 23 and lives in Boston gives it entirely different context from the angry guy who graduated from high school 10 years ago in this thread. And she didn't use it in the way you're claiming she used it.

[JustAnotherGen]

153. I think The definition is a good point

My idea of a "nerd" was sort of outlined in Happy Gilmore - but I graduated in 1991. The guy who played dungeons and dragons, or who wasn't academically succesful or who was perpetually defiant was a "nerd" when I was in high school. They grew up to be the Steve Buscemi character in Happy Gilmore.

Let's put it this way - if you are a Generation X woman - who didn't want to marry Ferris Bueller? By young peoples' definition today - he's a nerd.

[justiceischeap]

154. And I'd say he was a hipster.

Last edited Thu Sep 25, 2014, 09:25 AM - Edit history (1)

That's how close nerd/hipster are aligned in today's world.

[JustAnotherGen]

158. Naaah! :-)

Ferris wouldn't be caught dead in Skinny Jeans.

Boom chicka chicka!

[Skidmore]

93. To me it is a judgment about intellectual engagement.

I have know males and females who I consider to be nerds. Some are very physically attractive individuals but all are attractive by virture of their intellect and boundless love of pursuing knowledge. It is something to be respected.

[LanternWaste]

94. I don't think there are any dogmatic half-wits reveling in the inaccurate belief that nerd is gender

I don't think there are any dogmatic half-wits reveling in the inaccurate belief that nerd is gender-specific. Hence, this fictional double-standard does not exist (except for those pretending it is so to better validate their biases...).

[Marr]

115. "Nerdy men" is very obviously gender-specific.

Taken in context, it's perfectly clear what the author meant. I don't really see the point in pretending otherwise to defend some blogger.

[cyberswede]

121. "Men" is gender specific. "Nerdy" isn't.

The OP tries to discuss the double standard of the use of "nerdy" in general (not only in this article). In general, "nerdy" isn't even an insult, let alone a gender-specific one.

The author is criticizing behavior by certain men. That she chose to use "nerdy" doesn't assault their sexual prowess any more than calling them "smart" or "stupid" (or most other adjectives) would.

edit: The OP later asked:

When girls are called "nerdy", is there sexuality being denied? nt

And the answer is no, but neither is boys' sexuality being denied.

[YoungDemCA]

95. I live in the Silicon Valley, where nerdy men are the Masters of the Universe (TM)

And it is largely men, FTR, who dominate this Valley's high-tech industry. I don't see them being "shamed" for "not being manly enough."

And I don't think the use of "nerd" is derogatory in the article you linked to-or in most other contexts that it is used. It's just a descriptor of a subculture-one that frankly, does have a lot of problems with misogyny (along with racism and classism). It's not a problem that is exclusive to Nerd Culture though, obviously. But many self-described "nerdy" men seem to believe that they are immune from prejudice and bigotry against women and minorities simply because they were bullied in middle or high school. Sorry, but that's bullshit.

[ismnotwasm]

98. "Nerd" is no longer a perjoritive.

There are websites, marketing ploys, nerds of both sexes. This has been gooding on for sometime now.

My grandson says I am a "geek" not a nerd.

[DavidG_WI]

108. Geek is a compliment,

Nerd is not, it's generally accepted that a geek actually knows what they're talking about, while a nerd is just socially awkward.

[Hippo_Tron]

133. In the adult world yes, but among kids it's still very often a pejorative term

[Puzzledtraveller]

99. I was picked on and beaten up more than once for being a "nerd"

I sure as hell knew that the reason I was singled out was because I was NOT like the people giving me the beating. I have issues over this even today,in addition to being picked on for large ears, the glasses, and even tone of my voice were all against me in the years I went to school. I had come to hate who I was, loathe my physical appearance, considered both killing the kids who taunted me and myself. Nerd was always part of the taunt.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

100. I don't like macho men at all, so for me "nerd" has the connotation of

obsessiveness about some minute area.

I knew a sidewalk nerd in Portland. We were on a citizen's committee together, and he literally had a photo album of different kinds of sidewalk blocks, curbs, and curb cuts.

Many musicians are nerdy about their instruments. My stepfather was an organist, and when he got together with other organists, they could talk endlessly about pipes, stops, trackers, and the merits of various spaces for performance long after everyone else had lost interest.

Many years ago, a conservatory dropout told me that he got tired of his fellow students talking about their instruments.

My father, a Lutheran pastor, was a church nerd. In recent years, I have been sorting and reproducing the slides from our family trips, and the collections are full of pictures of churches with no distinguishing features.

[liberal_at_heart]

102. I have a crush on the Indian tech guy on one of those phone commercials.

I can't remember which phone company the commercial is for, but he is so cute.

[Marr]

109. That jumped out at me, too. It's oddly hypocritical to complain about

sexualized insults while making them yourself.

The people in this thread who are denying what "nerdy" means as used in that article are being, I think, intentionally obtuse.

[el_bryanto]

116. From the article I'm assuming you didn't read.

. . . maybe you’re working the booth at San Diego Comic-Con, and you’ve stepped inside with a coworker to see if you have any more t-shirts in stock. You turn to leave, but he grabs your arm and forces a kiss onto you. You’re stunned. You have nowhere to go. You’re in the middle of the busiest day of the weekend and no one needs drama right now—and you know that’s how it would be seen, as drama. You feel sick and ashamed and angry and you know this crosses a definite line, but there’s nothing you can do in that moment. You tell yourself you’ll report him, but days pass and when people ask how the con went, you can only muster a vague smile. If you report him, will he be fired? Will people know it was you? Your coworkers seem decent, but he has a lot of friends among them and you know your name won’t stay secret for long. He’ll get it out there, far beyond your organization, out into the suffocatingly small industry at large. Some would believe you—but how many wouldn’t? How many would get angry? You’re pretty sure your boss would support you, but beyond him, there is no guarantee of safety. You can’t take the risk. You tell a few trusted friends about him, put the word out to women in the industry: don’t be alone with this guy.

I definitely think some people in this thread are being intentionally obtuse.

Bryant

[Marr]

118. What is this, Nonsequitur Theater?

I read the article, thank you. The OP was about the use of the phrase "nerdy men" in the article cited.

[el_bryanto]

120. You are choosing to focus on one small part of the article to avoid having to deal with the real

issues it raises. Because really the only part of the story that matters is the part that might upset guys.

Bryant

[Marr]

122. I'm addressing the OP's topic.

You're the one attempting to shift the focus, not me.

[el_bryanto]

123. Yes you are right I suppose i should address my comments to the OP

[cyberswede]

119. I disagree.

"Nerd" isn't a sexualized insult - it isn't even a sexualized term, as both genders can be nerdy. The author is discussing men - that's the only reason "nerdy" is gender-specific in this case - yet I still don't see that it's sexualized at all.

If she had said "Men, especially game-culture men, are {whatever}..." nobody would think "game-culture" was a commentary on someone's manliness. The whole paragraph is a generalized criticism of (some) men's behavior, not a slam against unmanly men.

[Marr]

125. But she didn't say 'game-culture men'.

She said "nerdy men", and in this context, I do think it translated to 'sexually unappealing men who feel bitterly towards women'. Not unlike the 'man-hater' insult that's so often thrown at feminists.

I'm not opposed to her overall point, by the way. I'm around this scene quite a bit and I'd be the first to acknowledge and call out it's misogynist element when I see it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend a put-down like this is just fine (or was, as has been so ludicrously suggested in this thread, a 'compliment'), because it comes from the other direction.

[cyberswede]

128. I don't think anyone said the author of the article used it as a compliment.

I think people said, in response to the OPs double standard premise, that the term itself isn't a sexually demeaning insult (or even an insult at all).

[MerryBlooms]

129. I think the folks in the thread are mainly disagreeing with the author, which is a good thing.

I don't get why you, the OP and some others, are ticked-off at people who think nerdy is desirable/sexy.

[Marr]

135. I'm not ticked off at that.

I find it disingenuous to suggest that the term was used as a compliment by the author. The people doing that aren't disagreeing with the author as a general rule-- the posts are right there to read.

[lame54]

110. let's just all stop talking altogether...

the safest way to not say something politically correct

[el_bryanto]

124. Upon reflection I was too gentle when I first read this chickenshit response

It's two words in an article about the harassment woman have to suffer and the fear that makes the endure it rather than dealing with it. It's about the cowardliness or complicity of many in nerd and geek culture that allows and in some ways encourages this harassment. To focus on the words Nerdy Men as the real problem just reveals your eagerness to avoid dealing with the real rot in nerd and geek culture.

If a male nerd or geek or gamer or comic book reader looks the other way while this kind of harassment is going on, than that's wrong, and this whole thread is an attempt to encourage people to look the other way while real harassment is going on.

Bryant

[liberal_at_heart]

134. I agree that we should gently encourage all to stand up to harassment, but by calling them

cowardly you obviously know nothing about them. Many so called nerds are very nervous, anxious, shy, reserved, quiet and socially awkward. They are worried that anything they say will lead to others judging them, so they don't say much of anything. I should know because I have had an anxiety disorder all my life. I was the wall flower that never really talked to anyone because I was afraid of what others would think about me. So before you go get all judgmental because of the lack of words that come out of nerds' mouths think about who you are judging.

[el_bryanto]

148. I'm sorry for your life experience - but I'm not calling nerds cowardly

I'm saying that this response is chickenshit. The original article was about how woman in some cases feel like they can't speak up to harrasment and abuse. To read that article and decide that the important part of it is the phrase nerdy men is to bury the lede to say the least.

Basically it's focusing on a triviality so you don't have to focus on the real point, which is that woman are being harrassed in some cases by guys who call themselves nerds.

Bryant

[A Little Weird]

156. I absolutely agree

It's a good article about how women in the comic industry don't feel free to report harassment/abuse. I'm not sure how the OP turned that into a thread about a double standard about nerdy men. The article doesn't even talk about the manliness (or lack thereof) of nerdy men or make any comparison about nerdy women. I almost wonder if the OP posted the wrong link.

For what it's worth, I'm a nerdy woman who's attracted to nerdy men (I'm attracted to other men as well but it's easier to connect with nerdy guys) but I will admit that the definition of what constitutes a nerd these days is very broad. There's a whole spectrum of nerdiness ranging from people who are so socially inept that they seem to have trouble navigating daily life and others that are so "normal" that you wouldn't classify them as nerds on sight (only after talking to them). Some guys are certainly treated worse than others. But the same is true of nerdy women - I don't see a double standard.

[seabeyond]

162. another point i wanted to make. it is about culling a pak and finding a victim.

and then cowardly, as a group, attack the one chosen. and that target will stay on the person for a very long time. i do not know if it is so much about nerd.

my oldest has a fuzzy brain. and you are right. the appear normal and some time spent with them and ... wow. the oddities, in all their glory, lol

the poster has an history. many of us are aware of his position and was clear the intent of the OP. that is the thing when listening to others for literally.... years. lol.

your post was fun. interesting and thought provoking. thanks. took me in a direction i wanted to go.

[unblock]

127. it's simple: it's anti-intellectualism

which is a form of discrimination just as sexism, racism, heightism, weightism, etc. are.

for the most part, talking about "nerdy men" is pretty straightforward anti-intellectualism. it's not so much shaming this group because men in particular aren't supposed to be intellectual, it's really that people aren't supposed to be intellectual.


if you want to get a bit more refined in your analysis, yes, there are areas of overlap in discrimination, ask a lesbian. in this case, the reason for asserting the anti-intellectualism may certainly be to tarnish the image of the smarter male competitors and to make the attributes of the non-intellectual males appear attractive by comparison. but i'd say that's a more nuanced view.

the straightforward, simple analysis that gets it mostly right is that it just plain anti-intellectualism.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

132. I, virtually all of my male friends, and most of my female friends, proudly self-identify as nerds.

Yes, some people use "nerd" as a term of abuse; most nerds don't respect their judgement enough to care much.

[daredtowork]

137. I find nerdy men sexy

if they also have other qualities of responsible manhood: kindness, generosity of spirit, respect for others as autonomous human beings, level-headed, honest/adhering to his sense of integrity, capable, and reliable.

That article is about the problem of nerdy immature creeps, who are really just immature creeps hiding behind the fact that they are nerds. And the "confused" and "baffled" innocent pose is just another way of dodging responsibility. Such behavior deserves to be called out, if not shamed. They are making nerds look bad.

[Shankapotomus]

138. Real "nerds" don't care about sex

I mean really. Who cares about being able to brag about playing with someone else's genitalia?

Finding a Unified Theory; that's the real achievement.

[LostInAnomie]

144. Usually, DU never accepts the redefinition of a word...

... or that context matters.

I wonder why this word is different.

[merrily]

151. What double standard? Females can be as nerdy as males.

Nerd (adjective: nerdy) is a descriptive term, often used pejoratively, indicating that a person is overly intellectual, obsessive, or socially impaired. They may spend inordinate amounts of time on unpopular, obscure, or non-mainstream activities, which are generally either highly technical or relating to topics of fiction or fantasy, to the exclusion of more mainstream activities.[1][2][3] Additionally, many nerds are described as being shy, quirky, and unattractive,[4] and may have difficulty participating in, or even following, sports. Though originally derogatory, "Nerd" is a stereotypical term, but as with other pejoratives, it has been reclaimed and redefined by some as a term of pride and group identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd

In the film, Revenge of the Nerds, the nerds were better in bed that than the stars on the athletic field because the latter were too selfish and self absorbed to be good in bed. Is being great in bed supposed to be an indicium of "manliness?" (assuming that "manliness" is a term that makes any sense)

[seabeyond]

163. another point: most of our media, society, social entertainment directed at and focused on

teen age boys.

in the entertainments, we only hear about the nerd teen boy, hence the wrapping sexuality for a lot of men, in the discussion of that group/title/defined. i think to a lot of the men that identify as nerd, blame that circumstance on not having sex. so for the man experiencing, it is tied to that. it is also what hollywood tells that man.

interesting.

(assuming that "manliness" is a term that makes any sense)

thank you for saying this. cause i ma clueless on this womanhood/femininity thing too, lol

i digressed and cant remember my point.

our young men truly have to jump hoops created by society and themselves to earn their man card. i do not like it. i have two upper teen boys trying to navigate.

[One_Life_To_Give]

165. The times have changed

Back before anyone heard of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs I would agree with you. Having your trusty slide rule on the hip and a pocket protector with the remaining nerd essentials marked you as the kid in the Charles Atlas ad, getting sand kicked in your face.

Today more people recognize that Nerd's are paid well. And for every 10K in salary equates to another inch in height as far as desirability goes.

[Orsino]

169. The meaning of "nerd" has evolved a bit since that movie.

Nowadays many or most people who use understand that un-macho is distinct from inmanly. The term's application to women is another sign of progress. The double standard, if it ever existed, has seriously eroded.

[Maedhros]

178. "Nerd" is just a term used by uninteresting people to denigrate those who demonstrate

an aptitude for intellectual or technical endeavors.

[CreekDog]

179. You know what Bonobo? You need to start watching movies made after 1985.

Apparently you missed the whole revolution that took place wherein many in our society deemed most attractive are techies, nerds even, etc.

To call someone a nerd isn't even an insult anymore.

Stephen Hawking, Bill Gates, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye...Nerds are in.

When you write about this, you're dating yourself.

[LeftyMom]

185. NDT is a good looking dude. And was an athlete.

The OP seems based in an assumption that a venn diagram depicting fit/attractive people and nerds would be two distinct circles, which is pure idiocy.

[NaturalHigh]

189. I'm a nerd, but in the other thread...

"nerdy men" was clearly intended to be a pejorative.